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Burfict "Dirty Play" vs Chiefs?


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19 minutes ago, T-Dub said:

It's not "Whataboutism" when we're talking about how the same rule is applied by the same governing body to different players.  It's not a distraction, it's entirely relevant.  It's about treating people equally & it's why we don't randomly cut off the hands of shoplifters instead of putting them on probation & assigning them 100 hours of community service like everyone else. It's why we don't stone women to death for adultery in this country. It's not some debate trick to point out we don't treat adulterous men that way, it's a fundamental question of justice & the legitimacy of who or what is assigning this punishment. 

 

Like I said before, I think some of you just kind of sadistically enjoy seeing someone punished & to hell with whether it's right, fair, or even deserved. 

Wow.  

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5 hours ago, LostInDaJungle said:

I think I hit the point right on the head... It's a different era.

Frankly, if leaving out the violent hits that cripple players turns you off, you have plenty of other options. Yachting has seen 30+ deaths in just the last few decades!

And let's be very clear here.... Burfict knows what the rules of this era are. Butkus came into an NFL "pussified" by Roosevelt and his forward pass because 19 guys died in 1905. I'm old school. It's just not football unless someone is dying at least every other game.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_American_football#Violence_and_controversy_(1905)

Butkus was drafted in 1965 - The same year Nader's "Unsafe at any speed" came out. I'm guessing cars don't interest you anymore now that the risk of explosion is now close to 0? Seat belts and padded steering wheels! Pussification! It's not really driving if you're not in constant fear of instant death!

Thanks for the history lesson. I happened to be alive during that time, and well aware of Ralph and his quest--my neighbor's father had a Corvair, resplendent in its "Fuck Ralph Nader" bumper sticker (which few people had on their cars in those days). But no, I have no interest in auto racing--not then, not now. 

 

I also happened to play the game way back when--and all the way through a modest school career. I wore equipment which today would horrify the NFL. Coaching was "see it, hit it"...not much different than Butkus or Too Tall or anyone else in the time would have been told. I liked contact, so it was an easy challenge. I broke fingers, bones, and sometimes couldn't figure out what day it was. Maybe I was fortunate to not have had anything bad happen, don't know. Others did, and that is tragic.

 

The game is what it is--by its nature, violent. Bodies colliding at rapid speeds, or a continuous hammer, isn't natural. You can coach people to do this--and the modern NFL is full of those who learned well. It is probably going to take a generation for it to be untaught. For the present--the league will just make multitudinous unenforceable or randomly called rules to help slow it down. But it is a diluted product...and progressingly more uninteresting with each passing year.

 

As I said, it doesn't matter to me anymore. I just watch it periodically for some semblance of entertainment. For others, enjoy it. 

 

But again, don't lecture from the High Holy Place, that this is still some pure as the driven snow sport..and a continuation of a "fine tradition". It isn't even close. 

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18 hours ago, T-Dub said:

 

The Stealers said he is dirty so we should definitely hold him to the highest standard of laser-focused scrutiny.

Everone says he is dirty, even Mother Teresa and she is dead.

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I just came across this video on YouTube and it's *GASP* exactly paired with this very topic. It's equal parts relevant, informing and nauseating. It's a Skip Bayless show clip, featuring Stabbing Ray Lewis pontificating on our very own Vontaze Burfict! How awesome is that? And along with his compadre Shannon Sharpe, they reach a consensus about Burfict and his style of play. Caution: some of what you see and hear may be true about Burfict, depending on your agenda.

 

 

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If they expel him entirely they lose their scapegoat and fans start looking more closely at the NFL game in general.  The league definitely does not want that.  

 

And having Hall of Famer Ray "Stabby" Lewis pontificating on the whole thing.. Priceless.  What could I say about the bullshit nature of it all that this doesn't demonstrate 1000x better?

 

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21 hours ago, Bunghole said:

I just came across this video on YouTube and it's *GASP* exactly paired with this very topic. It's equal parts relevant, informing and nauseating. It's a Skip Bayless show clip, featuring Stabbing Ray Lewis pontificating on our very own Vontaze Burfict! How awesome is that? And along with his compadre Shannon Sharpe, they reach a consensus about Burfict and his style of play. Caution: some of what you see and hear may be true about Burfict, depending on your agenda.

 

 

Your problem is you are confusing two separate issues. The league wants Burfict gone because he targets other NFL players and the league wants to be able to say, " See, we responded once we knew the issue with CTE"

 

Lewis just killed two random guys who had nothing to do with the NFL or any future lawsuits.  Random GUYS dont matter to the NFL. The fact that Aaron Hernandez ambushed and murdered two guys outside a bar and nobody even questioned him is further proof.  At a bar, gets into shouting match with victims, 3 hours later they are dead and AAron wasnt even questioned.  Now if they had been women...

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It seems there is a bit of misunderstanding about what is the overall problem with the current Burfict hate in the media/what have you.  I will defend Burfict if he a) hasn't done anything wrong, but is vilified anyway, and b) isn't given a *chance* to be a safe/clean player (because last I checked the league hasn't kicked him out, but they keep telling us he's dirty as fuck).  Does he have a long history of being dirty, even beyond a typical "football player" level of dirty?  Yes, of course, that's indisputable.  Has he shown in the past to have almost a mental "block" when it comes to that dirtiness (which was to an extent the subject of that Ray Lewis video)?  Yes, it was fucking frustrating as hell to watch him do those things, especially when he'd already gotten into trouble for it in the past.  But does he deserve a chance to try and be better?  Can he do anything near the edge without everyone *assuming* he's *trying* to be dirty?  For many here, it seems the answer to both of those questions is a resounding "no".  Please don't tell me that he's been given "every chance", because he never has.  The only leeway he's been given is to not get kicked out - the league has never demonstrated any desire to actually help the man, because in my opinion they *want* him to be the villain.  

 

It is also funny to hear people saying that you can't be upset about dirty play and defend Burfict at the same time.  Most people here aren't defending his *dirtiness* they're defending the fact he's set to a different, higher standard than other players, *even when it comes to the actual rules of the game*.  If he does something dirty, yes please, punish him, kick him out if it's bad enough, nobody should argue against that.  But other players are *still* being *praised* for far FAR worse than Burfict is doing now. 

 

Can we please all acknowledge the fact that Burfict was fined (and apparently almost suspended) for NOT hitting a guys head?  He ran hard at a guy that he apparently can't get anywhere near or everyone assumes it's attempted murder, grazed his his helmet with the side of his forearm (which was pretty tight to his body) and now he's the same old head-hunter Burfict?  Seriously?  What's more plausible here: a) Burfict was trying to horribly maim AB (which he knows would have him out of the league immediately), but missed by two feet or b) Burfict was trying to scare the living shit out of AB to put him off his game, so went to the edge of something that he knows would scare him, but executed it perfectly - didn't hurt him (not even close), didn't get flagged (because he didn't break any rules) and the entire Steeler offense was shitting its pants (as evidenced by Rapistfucker crying like a baby after the game).  It seems a large contingent of fans on this site ascribe everything to option "a)".  That's fine, we have no proof one way or the other so believe whatever you want - but if you really think that's true I'm not sure why you follow this team or the league in general, because it very much means that we have a cold-blooded psychopath on the roster and neither the team, Marvin, or the league seems willing to kick him out.  That's a MAJOR problem, if true.

 

But here's the thing: I don't think you detractors believe all that.  I think you're frustrated that a guy who had the talent also has mental baggage, and it's hurt the team.  We get that, we're all frustrated.  I also think it's way WAY easier to just jump on the (very crowded) bandwagon of football fans that hate the guy and want him out of the league, even when he hasn't done anything wrong.  Even when teams like the Stealers dirty the fuck out of him with impunity.  Even when the only things people can really point to are things he's done two years ago or earlier.  And easiest of all?  He's not even playing all that well right now, and that makes it VERY easy to dump on the guy.  This I understand, and I can definitely understand someone being in the "as long as he's performing I'm cool" camp.  But don't paint people defending him into the "you love dirtiness when it's him" corner like all those fucking Steeler fans do, because it's bullshit.

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15 minutes ago, HavePityPlease said:

I think you're frustrated that a guy who had the talent also has mental baggage

I'm frustrated that this is just more of the ol' "Redeemer" crap on a guy that obviously isn't going to be redeemed.

This is another Odell Thurman. Who gives a crap how talented this guy is if he's not on the field? Or if he wins us a game for 59 minutes only to lose in the last minute with help from another "redeemer" project. Who gives a flying fuck how he plays in 16 games when he does that shit in the playoffs? He's lazy, comes in out of shape, etc... Frankly, I don't even think the talent can be relied upon to be more than a "wow, he can do that and literally isn't even trying." 

By all accounts, he's a dirty player, a horrible human being, and a liability on the field. But hey, he made a great tackle!

So please... Let's just paper over all of Hardy Nickerson's starts. Let just ignore how he drags down the tone of every game he's in. The Chiefs were baiting him - Yeah, well, they know he's a moron with poor self-control. Of course they did. But that's the effect of having him in the game. It's like blaming all of the high people after Snoop shows up to the party. And after that tone gets set... Let's hope you're not the player their defense targets for revenge.

32 teams passed on him for 7 rounds. Joe Mixon broke a chick's jaw and still went in the second. The "does his talent outweigh his problems" questions were answered. They all knew he had talent... Mike "9-7" Brown saw this as a cheap way to get "talent", as he always does, and so far all it's done is bite us in the ass and made us appreciate Vinny Rey. Dude can't play ONE clean game coming back from his second suspension to start the season. Sure, he missed... But in two games back, many posters have admitted to witnessing cringe inducing plays targeting a dude's head and maybe going after an ankle.

And unfortunately for Burfict - this fits with what we know about the guy. He doesn't get the benefit of the doubt anymore. If you heard that Bill Cosby drugged a girl, but she managed to go down the fire escape while he was getting his special raping sweater on, would you say "But she escaped... Are you honestly going to say he was going to rape her when she managed to get away?" So, when you see a play that looks exactly like the one that got him suspended two years ago..... And if I had seen Nick Vigil make that same play - It doesn't fit Vigil's history, so I would assume it was more innocent. It sucks, but the police don't go looking in suburban churches to solve crimes either. They go where criminals are known to be.

This team will never reach the mountain top while carrying Vontaze Burfict. He'll get himself suspended, he'll rack up three personal fouls in a playoff game... We will never fly like eagles being tethered to this turkey. And he'll consume the storylines coming out of Cincy. Who is no one talking about Geno? Because the din of Vontaze Burfict idiocy drowns out the chatter.

 

39 minutes ago, HavePityPlease said:

It is also funny to hear people saying that you can't be upset about dirty play and defend Burfict at the same time.

No, you can't act like you care about "dirty play" right up to the point where you literally cheer your guy doing it. Well, you can, but it makes you a hypocrite. Call Big Ben a rapist all you like - you don't care. You only care about what color jersey he wears. It's not even hate, it's envy. Pretty damn sad if you ask me.

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39 minutes ago, LostInDaJungle said:

I'm frustrated that this is just more of the ol' "Redeemer" crap on a guy that obviously isn't going to be redeemed.

This is another Odell Thurman. Who gives a crap how talented this guy is if he's not on the field? Or if he wins us a game for 59 minutes only to lose in the last minute with help from another "redeemer" project. Who gives a flying fuck how he plays in 16 games when he does that shit in the playoffs? He's lazy, comes in out of shape, etc... Frankly, I don't even think the talent can be relied upon to be more than a "wow, he can do that and literally isn't even trying." 

By all accounts, he's a dirty player, a horrible human being

 

Wait, what? What has he done off the field ever?  Put down the torch & pitchfork ffs.

1 hour ago, HavePityPlease said:

It seems there is a bit of misunderstanding about what is the overall problem with the current Burfict hate in the media/what have you. [snip]

 

Well said, if everyone's not playing by the same rules it's not really a sport anymore.  It's just a bunch of dudes chasing a ball around.  You can't have one guy playing chess and the other playing checkers and call it a contest.  

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14 minutes ago, LostInDaJungle said:

Off the field?!?!

He deliberately goes out and tries to injure people and take away their livelihood beyond the rules of the game... You think that makes him Mother Theresa?

 

I don't know if you're trolling or really guzzling that Kool-Aid but get a fuckin grip man

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5 minutes ago, LostInDaJungle said:

Aka - I have no response to that.

 

AKA you're obviously just trolling.  I mean FFS dude just twisted AJ's ankle after the TD catch, that shit happens constantly, but you're too busy swinging from my dick to notice.  Carry on.

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