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10 hours ago, UncleEarl said:

Not overly familiar with the traditions around Krampus, but I love the concept. 

 

I was skiing in Sankt Anton am Arlberg, Austria a few years ago and it happened to be Krampuslauf (Krampus Run), and these guys showed up when the lifts closed. 

 

 

The video is from a few years before I was there but it was the same costumes and likely the same dudes. 

 

I'm in my 40s and never flinched so they left me alone. The kiddies were no so fortunate. With their switches they managed to ruin a few ski pants on the younguns. 

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4 hours ago, UncleEarl said:

Thanks for the Krampus info.  Nothing like some odd mythology to spice up Christmas Eve.  Frau Perchta sounds even more frightening.  Nothing scarier than a mean old German/Eastern European lady, as I grew up with German family in Cincinnati. 

Our neighborhood does a Krampus Parade every December. It’s organized by a Wiccan shop in the neighborhood.

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36 minutes ago, MichaelWeston said:

Harbaugh might be traded to Jets or Broncos?

I bet Elway would hand over a testicle for Harbaugh.    Nobody wants to go to the Jets.  Playing 2nd fiddle to the Giants in your own  market is no place for a high, in demand coach if Harbaugh is actually available. 

 

The Giants fanbase and corporate support is staggering compared to the Jets.  It honestly like comparing the Lakers to the Clippers.  As noisy as Jet fans are, they are nothing but a red headed step child in New York.

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On 12/25/2018 at 9:44 AM, UncleEarl said:

Pagans doing Christianity.

Meh. I'm going to be that guy.

More like Christians doing paganism. I think it's pretty common knowledge that as Christianity spread, it adopted many pagan traditions. Easter is still named for Oestara, and has always been the spring festival. Similarly, Christmas or a similar holiday is known throughout most religions in some form or another. We celebrate the ending of one year and the beginning of another on what used to be the equinox.

The "12 days of Christmas" dates back to the old Germanic/Goth tradition of celebrating using the difference between the solar year and lunar year. Beginning on December 25th, and ending on January 6th. Since the Romans collected taxes in July/August... The reason we celebrate Christmas in December goes back to pagan traditions. Christmas was "canonized" to this date when Charlemagne had himself Christened Emperor during the feast day.

Krampus comes from a time when Christmas was a time for drunkenly carousing. (Look up wassaling - Basically, we'll sing a song and you'll give us booze or we'll shit in your window boxes) The early Puritans even banned Christmas.

Modern Santa Claus and all that jazz was dreamed up by ad men in New York in the 1930's. Medieval peasants weren't trampling each other for "Tickle me Pope Pious" dolls at the local Aethelstan-Mart. It was a time of darkness and superstition where "Krampus" might just carry off that one kid who doesn't behave and do his work... And that's what you'd tell your kids after you bury him in the woods. "Sorry, Aethelwulf was carried off by Krampus because he didn't behave."

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1 hour ago, LostInDaJungle said:

Meh. I'm going to be that guy.

More like Christians doing paganism. I think it's pretty common knowledge that as Christianity spread, it adopted many pagan traditions. Easter is still named for Oestara, and has always been the spring festival. Similarly, Christmas or a similar holiday is known throughout most religions in some form or another. We celebrate the ending of one year and the beginning of another on what used to be the equinox.

The "12 days of Christmas" dates back to the old Germanic/Goth tradition of celebrating using the difference between the solar year and lunar year. Beginning on December 25th, and ending on January 6th. Since the Romans collected taxes in July/August... The reason we celebrate Christmas in December goes back to pagan traditions. Christmas was "canonized" to this date when Charlemagne had himself Christened Emperor during the feast day.

Krampus comes from a time when Christmas was a time for drunkenly carousing. (Look up wassaling - Basically, we'll sing a song and you'll give us booze or we'll shit in your window boxes) The early Puritans even banned Christmas.

Modern Santa Claus and all that jazz was dreamed up by ad men in New York in the 1930's. Medieval peasants weren't trampling each other for "Tickle me Pope Pious" dolls at the local Aethelstan-Mart. It was a time of darkness and superstition where "Krampus" might just carry off that one kid who doesn't behave and do his work... And that's what you'd tell your kids after you bury him in the woods. "Sorry, Aethelwulf was carried off by Krampus because he didn't behave."

OK.  Pagans say it comes from their traditions, Christians say it comes from theirs.  I'm not really worried about it.  My comment was that Wiccans (Pagans) doing Krampus was (from what I had read) taking from a Christian tradition.  Possibly wrong, but just the same, folks all take from the traditions they like and make it theirs.  No harm in that as far as I'm concerned.  Unless you are into the strict "cultural appropriation" thought process. 

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33 minutes ago, UncleEarl said:

Pagans say it comes from their traditions, Christians say it comes from theirs.

More to the point, it comes from many traditions and has meant many things over thousands of years to many people. I'm not about cultural appropriation as much as Germans who converted maintained some of the old pagan traditions mixed in with the new. Krampus has it's roots in this eastern European theology and cultural background.

"Pagan" as a term quite literally means someone who follows a non-Judeochristian religion. So any non-Christian elements would by their definition be pagan without specifying that they "appropriated" Christmas from any specific one. Christians hardly have the patent on celebrating the vernal equinox. Over 2000 years and god knows how many cultures, of course it picked up some baggage. However, I don't think Krampus is mentioned in the gospels - not even revelations and there's all kinds of crazy shizz in revelations.

Without stirring up too much debate about whether there's chocolate in your peanut-butter or vice-versa... Our modern Christmas is nothing like the celebrations of 200 years ago, and far less so than the strictly "Christian" traditions of 2000 years ago. And even by that measure they were adapted from Saturnalia. Which, by definition, is "pagan".

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7 hours ago, LostInDaJungle said:

More to the point, it comes from many traditions and has meant many things over thousands of years to many people. I'm not about cultural appropriation as much as Germans who converted maintained some of the old pagan traditions mixed in with the new. Krampus has it's roots in this eastern European theology and cultural background.

"Pagan" as a term quite literally means someone who follows a non-Judeochristian religion. So any non-Christian elements would by their definition be pagan without specifying that they "appropriated" Christmas from any specific one. Christians hardly have the patent on celebrating the vernal equinox. Over 2000 years and god knows how many cultures, of course it picked up some baggage. However, I don't think Krampus is mentioned in the gospels - not even revelations and there's all kinds of crazy shizz in revelations.

Without stirring up too much debate about whether there's chocolate in your peanut-butter or vice-versa... Our modern Christmas is nothing like the celebrations of 200 years ago, and far less so than the strictly "Christian" traditions of 2000 years ago. And even by that measure they were adapted from Saturnalia. Which, by definition, is "pagan".

Not here to argue.  You certainly know more about the issue than I do.  Your first sentence sums it up for me.  It's a combination of years of traditions from people that have learned from each other and applied the customs that they feel are most important. 

 

The exception would be the modern version of Christmas/Santa Claus which has made consumerism front and center.  That is certainly our society's "contribution" to the tradition.

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8 hours ago, UncleEarl said:

Not here to argue.  You certainly know more about the issue than I do.  Your first sentence sums it up for me.  It's a combination of years of traditions from people that have learned from each other and applied the customs that they feel are most important. 

 

The exception would be the modern version of Christmas/Santa Claus which has made consumerism front and center.  That is certainly our society's "contribution" to the tradition.

 

Decorating homes with lights also originated here.  Partial to luminaria myself but unfortunately all the wildfires have reduced their popularity.  

 

 

farolito.jpg

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On 12/18/2018 at 10:02 AM, I_C_Deadpeople said:

He is far more stubborn that smart. I lean towards he holds on to either Merv or Hue. Any new coach worth his salt will want to see organization improvements and Mikey wants no part of that. 

Nope. They're both gone. He ain't hirin' Hue. He knows the fans would not buy that. As I said, Marvin's gone. After all these yrs I'm amazed that so many Bengal fans still don't understand mike Brown. He knows $$ and he knows empty seats don't generate it. So many Bengal fans, including Dave Lapham, said that Marvin would be back with Hue. No! I give kudos to former Bengal Jim Breech who last night said on local tv that Marvin would be gone because of the empty seats. There's one more thing to take out of this:

 

Fans, you had a say in all of this. Your not going to games contributed to this move. 

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