Guest ONYX Posted August 23, 2005 Report Share Posted August 23, 2005 Seems like ole' Dubya is at it again. Trying to use his Texas style Jedi mind tricks on the American people. He's still trying to connect 9/11 with his preemptive strike on Iraq even though the September 11 commission's report found no evidence that Iraq had any operational relationship with al Qaeda. EXAMPLE OF TEXAS STYLE JEDI MIND TRICK BUSH: "The war in Iraq is part of a battle that began with the September 11, 2001 attacks on U.S. soil." AMERICAN PUBLIC: "No It wasn't." BUSH: "uuuh......yeah it was." AMERICAN PUBLIC: "Maybe it was." Check it out [url="http://www.cnn.com/2005/POLITICS/08/22/bush.iraq/index.html"]http://www.cnn.com/2005/POLITICS/08/22/bush.iraq/index.html[/url] "The bigger the lie, the more people will believe it" ---Adolf Hitler Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BengalBacker Posted August 23, 2005 Report Share Posted August 23, 2005 I'm shocked. The Clinton News Network bashing Bush. What a slanted piece of bullshit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BlackJesus Posted August 23, 2005 Report Share Posted August 23, 2005 [img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/30.gif[/img] [img]http://img390.imageshack.us/img390/6896/churchsign232pw.jpg[/img] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bengalrick Posted August 23, 2005 Report Share Posted August 23, 2005 he mentioned the commission report [img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/24.gif[/img] read the [url="http://forum.go-bengals.com/index.php?showtopic=7749"]able danger[/url] thread... i have no credibility for the 9/11 commission... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest oldschooler Posted August 23, 2005 Report Share Posted August 23, 2005 Hey I have a novel idea... If the news sources started actually showing some good things that are happening in Iraq... instead of bombarding us with the news about what the insurgents are doing to kill people. Then maybe...just MAYBE people might actually start supporting a war that the see some good coming out of... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bengalrick Posted August 23, 2005 Report Share Posted August 23, 2005 no operational relationship between iraq - al qaeda?? [url="http://www.weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/005/804yqqnr.asp"]click here[/url] [i]"Abdul Rahman Yasin, a fugitive of the [1993 World Trade Center] attack, is of Iraqi descent, and in 1993, he fled to Iraq with Iraqi assistance."[/i] [b]Senate Intelligence Committee report[/b] [i]"Cooperation between the two organizations should be allowed to develop freely through discussion and agreement."[/i] [b]Internal Iraqi Intelligence memo on Iraq-al Qaeda cooperation, June 25, 2004, New York Times[/b] [i]"To gain the knowledge of the message from bin Laden and to convey to his envoy an oral message from us to bin Laden, the Saudi opposition leader, about the future of our relationship with him, and to achieve a direct meeting with him."[/i] [b]Internal Iraqi Intelligence memo describing the goal of meetings with an al Qaeda envoy, February 19, 1998[/b] [i]"Saddam Hussein and Osama Bin Laden have sealed a pact."[/i] [b]Milan's Corriere della Sera, December 28, 1998, as cited in the Senate Intelligence Committee report, p. 328[/b] [i]"Following the expulsion of al Qaeda from Afghanistan and their arrival in northern Iraq, Abu Musab al Zarqawi (a senior al Qaeda figure) was relatively free to travel within Iraq proper and to stay in Baghdad for some time. Several of his colleagues visited him there."[/i] [b]The Butler Report, July 14, 2004[/b] these are only some examples of iraq-al qaeda relationships... i suggest reading this, then telling me there was no connection between the two... also, if you read the able danger thread, you will see that there still MIGHT be an iraqi-9/11 connection, but the evidence isn't all in yet... one thing is for sure, the timeline that allowed the commission to say there was no connection, is getting scrutinized and could very well be proved to be wrong... there was reports of czech intel that iraqi officials met w/ al qaeda members in germany in 2000... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Bengal_Smoov Posted August 23, 2005 Report Share Posted August 23, 2005 [quote name='oldschooler' date='Aug 23 2005, 09:35 AM']Hey I have a novel idea... If the news sources started actually showing some good things that are happening in Iraq... instead of bombarding us with the news about what the insurgents are doing to kill people. Then maybe...just MAYBE people might actually start supporting a war that the see some good coming out of... [right][post="136119"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote] They can't make stuff up, don't you want the truth about what is really happening in Iraq? This has and will continue to be an unjust war, Americans shouldn't support the war, we should support our soilders but not the war. Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, and Rice are war criminals and should be tried as such. [quote]Bush - Leaving Iraq we'd dishonour memory of deceased Americans Bush said in a speech to the Veterans of Foreign Wars national convention in Salt Lake City, Utah, that "a policy of retreat and isolation will not bring us safety". U.S. President George W. Bush, defending his Iraq war policy in the face of anti-war opposition and slumping approval ratings, says pulling out before the mission is complete would dishonour the memory of all the Americans who fought and died in pursuit of freedom. "A policy of retreat and isolation will not bring us safety," Bush said Monday in a speech to the Veterans of Foreign Wars national convention in Salt Lake City, Utah. Repeatedly citing the Sept. 11 attacks, he said, "[b]the only way to defend our citizens where we live is to go after the terrorists where they live[/b]." Bush noted the U.S. military death toll - more than 2,000 killed in the Afghanistan and Iraq wars. "Each of these men and women left grieving families and loved ones back home ... And each of these Americans have brought the hope of freedom to millions who have not known it," Bush said, as if speaking to Cindy Sheehan, the California anti-war activist whose son Casey was killed in Iraq. "[b]We owe them something. We will finish the task that they gave their lives for ... by staying on the offensive against the terrorists, and building strong allies in Afghanistan and Iraq that will help us win and fight - fight and win the war on terror[/b]." Recent polls have shown growing public dissatisfaction with the president's handling of the war in Iraq in the face of a persistent insurgency and the mounting U.S. death toll. An AP-Ipsos poll taken earlier this month showed that the percentage of Americans who approve of Bush's handling of Iraq - a number that had been hovering in the low- to mid-40s most of the year - dipped to 38 percent. Some lawmakers from both parties are urging Bush to set a timetable for withdrawal, or at least lay out a strategy for leaving. [b]Sen. Russ Feingold, a Wisconsin Democrat who last week called for a Dec. 31, 2006, timetable for completing the mission, criticised Bush's speech as "more of the same sloganeering." "We need the president to be clear about the remaining U.S. military mission in Iraq, and we need a target date," Feingold said in a statement[/b]. Monday's speech was the first of two Bush will deliver this week in an effort to build support for the conflict by reaffirming his commitment to help Iraq transition to democracy and urging the public's patience with his policy. The second speech comes Wednesday when he speaks to military families in Nampa, Idaho. After Monday's speech, Bush and his wife, Laura, flew to Donnelly, Idaho, where he was to spend Tuesday out of public view at the Tamarack Resort in the mountains 100 miles (160 kilometres) north of Boise. Several demonstrations against U.S. involvement in Iraq were planned to coincide with Bush's visit. They included a lunchtime rally Tuesday at a park across from the Idaho Statehouse, where members of the Idaho Peace Coalition were to dedicate 1,866 white-cross memorials - one for every U.S. soldier who has died in Iraq since the U.S.-led invasion in March 2003. Bush spoke Monday hours before the Iraqi parliament failed to meet its second deadline for approving a draft constitution. Bush applauded their efforts and praised as courageous steps the Israeli government has taken by removing settlements in the Gaza and parts of the northern West Bank. Bush said both would lead to greater stability in the Middle East, and more security for America[/quote] The fact that this war started to remove the WMD's and now is about freedom of the Iraqis proves that this is a bullshit war. This adminstration has offered NO EXIT STRATEGY after 3+ years of fighting this war, they should've had one BEFORE they started the war. For Bush to keep invoking the memories of 9/11 is sickening, he is pimping people's fears and griefs for this war. That is wrong. Poor planning and lies have led to the deaths of American soilders, I glad people are finally starting to see the truth about Bush and his lies. A draft-dogging, spoiled brat who got all the breaks in life because of who his daddy is should be the last person to tell people about sacrifice. He goes before Americans and tells them that if we leave know we will dishonor the memories of those who died, what about the soilders still there. More soilders will continue to die the longer we stay in Iraq, the Bush administration obiviously doesn't care about the living soilders. Bush has no family members who have served or died Iraq or Afghanistan, I'm sure the families of the fallen soilders would be all for an exit of Iraq a.s.a.p. and they wouldn't think it would be disrespectful to their deceased kin. He should worry about making America safer, the economy stronger, and gas prices lower before fixing problems of countries on the other side of the earth. The Texas oil man has his head stuck in the Saudi Arabian sand and doesn't see or care about the problems that Americans are facing. If Bush went before Congress to and said I want to put American soilders lives at risk to bring democracy to Iraq do you think he would have had gotten the same support. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie_B Posted August 23, 2005 Report Share Posted August 23, 2005 [url="http://newsbusters.org/media/TodaySoldier.wmv"]Captin Sherman Powel[/url] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bengalrick Posted August 23, 2005 Report Share Posted August 23, 2005 [quote name='Bengal_Smoov' date='Aug 23 2005, 11:21 AM']They can't make stuff up, don't you want the truth about what is really happening in Iraq? This has and will continue to be an unjust war, Americans shouldn't support the war, we should support our soilders but not the war. Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, and Rice are war criminals and should be tried as such. The fact that this war started to remove the WMD's and now is about freedom of the Iraqis proves that this is a bullshit war. This adminstration has offered NO EXIT STRATEGY after 3+ years of fighting this war, they should've had one BEFORE they started the war. For Bush to keep invoking the memories of 9/11 is sickening, he is pimping people's fears and griefs for this war. That is wrong. Poor planning and lies have led to the deaths of American soilders, I glad people are finally starting to see the truth about Bush and his lies. [/quote] exit strategy is "when the iraqis step up, we will stand down"... sorry there is no time table, but when they can handle the situation their selves, we will leave... [quote]A draft-dogging, spoiled brat who got all the breaks in life because of who his daddy is should be the last person to tell people about sacrifice. He goes before Americans and tells them that if we leave know we will dishonor the memories of those who died, what about the soilders still there. More soilders will continue to die the longer we stay in Iraq, the Bush administration obiviously doesn't care about the living soilders. [/quote] boy did i miss you in the general forum how can you say he doesn't care?? did FDR care about that in WWII?? of course he did... this is a weak arguement... [quote]Bush has no family members who have served or died Iraq or Afghanistan, I'm sure the families of the fallen soilders would be all for an exit of Iraq a.s.a.p. and they wouldn't think it would be disrespectful to their deceased kin. He should worry about making America safer, the economy stronger, and gas prices lower before fixing problems of countries on the other side of the earth. [/quote] how is this an arguement... should he have forced his children to go into the army?? leaving now only disrespects those that have fought and especially those that have died... [quote]The Texas oil man has his head stuck in the Saudi Arabian sand and doesn't see or care about the problems that Americans are facing. If Bush went before Congress to and said I want to put American soilders lives at risk to bring democracy to Iraq do you think he would have had gotten the same support. [right][post="136183"][/post][/right][/quote] the operation was called "operation iraqi freedom"... it wasn't a big surprise that that is what we are trying to do... this is a complicated situation and it has many reasons why we went... i can go into them if you want to go there, but i will save yours and my headache... but the facts are this, we decided to fight terror on the offensive instead of waiting try to catch them here... the real question is what is the better way to fight terror?? should we treat it like a police problem or should we go to where they live, and solve the problem there?? if there is a problem in your life, do you mask it or do you go to the heart of the problem? [i]"the only way to defend our citizens where we live is to go after the terrorists where they live."[/i] i agree w/ this statement 100%... the polls can be explained if you look at the whole picture... many don't want us to fight at all... many others want us to fight more aggressively... they both don't approve of the way things are being ran in iraq... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bengalrick Posted August 23, 2005 Report Share Posted August 23, 2005 [quote name='Jamie_B' date='Aug 23 2005, 11:29 AM'][url="http://newsbusters.org/media/TodaySoldier.wmv"]Captin Sherman Powel[/url] [right][post="136188"][/post][/right][/quote] ain't that the damned truth... it takes alot more (in the current environment) to believe in what you have since 9/11, than to talk shit about bush and his "lies" considering most of the media only shows us the bad things going on... they are trying to recreate vietnam (where we won every battle but lost the war ) but it won't happen b/c the MSM isn't the only source of info now... the internet is a great thing... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest oldschooler Posted August 23, 2005 Report Share Posted August 23, 2005 [quote name='Bengal_Smoov' date='Aug 23 2005, 10:21 AM']They can't make stuff up, don't you want the truth about what is really happening in Iraq? [right][post="136183"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote] Blah blah blah... Here read this. Good Things in Iraq Not Being Reported by the Media-Truth!, Fiction, and Unproven! Summary of the eRumor A message said to be from an Iowa Army National Guardsman named Ray Reynolds who is serving in Iraq. It lists a number of improvements in Iraq since the U.S. led incursion in 2003. [b]The Truth[/b] This message began circulating on the Internet in April, 2004. It's a passionate email from a soldier serving in Iraq about some of the good things that are happening as a result of the U.S.-led incursion. We checked into each one of his statements and some were accurate, some were not. [b]Truth! But his figure is low![/b] According to a UNICEF report at the end of 2003, more than 3 1/2 million children had been immunized. [b]School Attendance is up 80%-Truth![/b] Again, according to an April, 2004 report from UNICEF, school attendance in Iraq increased by 60 percent shortly after the war to more than 95 percent during the recent national exam week. [b]More than 1,500 schools renovated-Truth![/b] UNICEF says that as of April, 2004, more than 2,500 schools have been renovated with the goal of 4,000 being completed by the end of the year, but 10,000 more need repair. [b]The Port of Uhm Qasar [sic] renovated so grain can be offloaded faster-Truth![/b] In a November, 2003 interview on National Public Radio, Andrew Natsios of the U.S. Agency for International Development said that the port at Umm Qasar, Iraq's largest, is modern and functioning for the first time in 20 years. [b]Iraqi oil reached 2 billion barrels exported in August of 2003-Fiction![/b] Iraq sits on the second largest proven crude oil reserves in the world and the flow of oil resumed in August, 2003 amid equipment that needed repair and suffered from looting and attacks from saboteurs. The initial flow in August, 2003, was 500,000 barrels per day, according to the BBC. Iraqi oil is subject to the ups and downs of the crude oil market but in April, 2003, more than 2 million barrels a day were being produced, but that has not accumulated to 2 billion. [b]Clean drinking water for the first time for than 4.5 million Iraqis-Fiction![/b] According to the U.S. Agency for International Development, safe drinking water was not widespread in Iraq before the U.S. led coalition invaded Iraq but that was partly because of water treatment systems that were in disrepair or had been looted. In other words, clean water is not new to Iraq. We couldn't find any figures that indicated how many would be receiving clean water for the first time. In December, 2003, USAID was on track to provide clean water to more than 14 million Iraqis. [b]Iraq has twice the electrical power than before the war-Fiction![/b] USAID says power was restored in October, 2003 to slightly more than pre-war levels, or more than 4500 MW as opposed to about 4400 MW prior to the war. The goal was to reach 6000 MW by the summer of 2004. [b]All of the hospitals operating-Truth![/b] Because of disrepair and looting, it took a lot of work to get hospitals back up to speed but according to James Haverman, the Coalition Provisional Authority Senior Advisor to the Iraqi Ministry of Health, all 240 hospitals in Iraq as well as 2400 primary health care clinics were operating as of December, 2003. [b]Elections taking place in all major cities-Fiction![/b] This has been a source of contention in Iraq. In June of 2003 U.S. authorities called halts to local elections across Iraq and chose to put hand-chosen mayors or administrators into office. There have been various local elections since that time and debate over whether Iraq is ready for national elections. According to the Army New Service, there were three truly democratic elections by the end of 2003 in the cities of Tallafar, Zumar and Al-Eyaldia in northern Iraq. [b]Sewer and water lines installed in every major city-Unproven![/b] We're not sure about all the major cities, but according to USAID, the water and sewage in Iraq has been suffering from years of neglect, electricity shortages, and post-war looting. Work is underway to restore healthy water and sewage treatment to more than 14-million Iraqis. More than 60,000 police in the streets, more than 100,000 Iraqi civil defense police securing the country, and 80,000 Iraqi soldiers patrolling the streets with the U.S. soldiers-Mostly Fiction! All accounts regarding the Iraqi police say that the goal is to have 35,000 to 50,000 trained and in place by 2005 or 2006, according to the U.S. State Department. The first class of more than 400 police offers graduated in January, 2004. The Civil Defense Corps (ICDC) is composed of Iraqis who remain citizens, as opposed to serving full time in the military, and are integrated into the coalition military units. The internal defense of the country is in their hands and they are led by the coalition. According to There were about 25,000 hired and trained by February, 2004. The first Iraqi Army battalion of 700 soldiers graduated in October of 2003. By February of 2004, 3,500 had been recruited, about 2000 of those being operational. [b]Over 400,000 people have telephones for the first time ever-Unproven![/b] We've not found any statistics regarding how many new customers there will be for telephones. Most of the work in Iraq has been to restore telephone communications that were lost because of damage from the war. [b]An interim constitution has been signed-Truth![/b] On March 8, 2004, an interim constitution that defines Iraq as being "federal, democratic and pluralist" was signed by members of the Iraqi Governing Council. [b]Girls are allowed to attend school-Truth! But Misleading![/b] A quick read of Sgt. Reynolds' report would leave the impression that Iraqi girls are able to attend school for the first time because of the invasion. According to Human Rights Watch, Iraqi girls and women have enjoyed comparatively more rights than in some of the other countries of the Middle East. The Iraqi Constitution of 1970 included women's rights for voting, attending school, owning property, and running for office. Still, the status of women in Iraq has not always been the best because of other cultural and economic factors such as the aftermath of the 1991 war and economic sanctions. School attendance for girls has not been prohibited although more boys than girls have been enrolled, especially in rural areas. [b]Students are taught field sanitation and hand washing techniques to prevent the spread of germs-Truth![/b] Not only are U.S. soldiers demonstrating field sanitation and hand washing, but UNICEF is conducting an active health education program to improve personal hygiene and promote more hand washing. [b]Textbooks that don't mention Saddam are in the schools for the first time in 30 years-Truth![/b] According to published reports, a team of U.S. appointed Iraqi educators combed through more than 500 Iraqi textbooks and removed every mention of Saddam Hussein and the Baath party including pictures. The texts will probably be revised by the Iraqis at some point in the future, but the pre-war texts were dominated with Saddam Hussein. Last updated 4/24/04 A real example of the eRumor as it has appeared on the Internet: Subject: About Iraq from a cousin This is a letter from Ray Reynolds, a medic in the Iowa Army National Guard, serving in Iraq: As I head off to Baghdad for the final weeks of my stay in Iraq, I wanted to say thanks to all of you who did not believe the media. They have done a very poor job of covering everything that has happened. I am sorry that I have not been able to visit all of you during my two week leave back home. And just so you can rest at night knowing something is happening in Iraq that is noteworthy, I thought I would pass this on to you. This is the list of things that has happened in Iraq recently: (Please share it with your friends and compare it to the version that your paper is producing.) * Over 400,000 kids have up-to-date immunizations. * School attendance is up 80% from levels before the war. * Over 1,500 schools have been renovated and rid of the weapons stored there so education can occur. * The port of Uhm Qasar was renovated so grain can be off-loaded from ships faster. * The country had its first 2 billion barrel export of oil in August. * Over 4.5 million people have clean drinking water for the first time ever in Iraq. * The country now receives 2 times the electrical power it did before the war. * 100% of the hospitals are open and fully staffed, compared to 35% before the war. * Elections are taking place in every major city, and city councils are in place. * Sewer and water lines are installed in every major city. * Over 60,000 police are patrolling the streets. * Over 100,000 Iraqi civil defense police are securing the country. * Over 80,000 Iraqi soldiers are patrolling the streets side by side with US soldiers. * Over 400,000 people have telephones for the first time ever * Students are taught field sanitation and hand washing techniques to prevent the spread of germs. * An interim constitution has been signed. * Girls are allowed to attend school. * Textbooks that don't mention Saddam are in the schools for the first time in 30 years. Don't believe for one-second that these people do not want us there. I have met many, many people from Iraq that want us there, and in a bad way. They say they will never see the freedoms we talk about but they hope their children will. We are doing a good job in Iraq and I challenge anyone, anywhere to dispute me on these facts. So If you happen to run into John Kerry, be sure to give him my email address and send him to Denison, Iowa. This soldier will set him straight. If you are like me and very disgusted with how this period of rebuilding has been portrayed, email this to a friend and let them know there are good things happening. Ray Reynolds, SFC Iowa Army National Guard 234th Signal Battalion [url="http://www.truthorfiction.com/rumors/r/rayreynolds.htm"]http://www.truthorfiction.com/rumors/r/rayreynolds.htm[/url] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest oldschooler Posted August 23, 2005 Report Share Posted August 23, 2005 What has gone right in Iraq By Jeff Jacoby, 4/1/2004 WITH ALL the news coming out of the Middle East, here is a detail you might have missed: A few weeks ago, the United Nations shut down the Ashrafi refugee camp in southwestern Iran. For years Ashrafi had been the largest facility in the world housing displaced Iraqis, tens of thousands of whom had been driven from their homes by Saddam Hussein's brutality. But with Saddam behind bars and his regime crushed, Iraqi exiles have been flocking home. By mid-February the camp had literally emptied out. Now, the UN High Commissioner for Refugees reports, "nothing remains of Ashrafi but rubble and a few stones." Refugees surging to Iraq? That isn't what the antiwar legions told us would happen if George Bush made good on his vow to end Saddam's reign of terror. Over and over they warned that a US invasion would trigger a humanitarian cataclysm, including a flood of refugees from Iraq. This, for instance, was Martin Sheen at a Los Angeles news conference a month before the war began: "As the dogs of war slouch towards Baghdad, we need to be reminded that as many as 2 million refugees could become a reality, as well as half a million fatalities." Writing on the left-wing website AlterNet last March, senior editor Tai Moses expressed dread of the coming of a war that "could create more than a million refugees." The BBC, citing a "confidential" UN document, predicted that up to 500,000 Iraqis would be seriously injured during the first phase of an American attack, while 1 million would flee the country and 2 million more would be internally displaced -- all compounded by an "outbreak of diseases in epidemic if not pandemic proportions." The Organization of the Islamic Conference foresaw the "displacement of hundreds of thousands of refugees," plus "total destruction and a humanitarian tragedy whose scale cannot be predicted." Wrong, every one of them, along with all the other doomsayers, Bush-haters, "Not In Our Name" fanatics, and sundry "peace" activists who flooded the streets and the airwaves to warn of onrushing disaster. How many have had the integrity to admit that their visions of catastrophe were wildly off the mark? Or that if they had gotten their way, the foremost killer of Muslims alive today -- Saddam -- would still be torturing children before their parents' eyes? Instead they chant, "Bush lied, people died," and seize on every setback in Iraq as proof that they were right all along. But they were wrong all along. Operation Iraqi Freedom stands as one of the great humanitarian achievements of modern times. For all the Bush administration's mistakes and miscalculations, for all the monumental challenges that remain, Iraq is vastly better off today than it was before the war. And the Iraqi people know it. In a nationwide survey conducted by Britain's Oxford Research International, 56 percent of Iraqis say their lives are better now than before the war; only 19 percent say things are worse. Because of "Bush's war," Iraqis today brim with optimism. Fully 71 percent expect their lives to be even better a year from now; less than 7 percent say they'll be worse. Iraq today may just be the most upbeat, forward-looking country in the Arab world. With hard work and a little luck, it may soon be the best governed as well. The interim constitution approved by the Iraqi Governing Council protects freedom of speech and assembly, guarantees the right to privacy, ensures equality for women, and subordinates the military to civilian control. It is, hands down, the most progressive constitution in the Arab Middle East. Nearly a year after the fall of Baghdad, Iraq is hugely improved. Unemployment has been cut in half. Wages are climbing. The devastated southern marshlands are being restored. More Iraqis own cars and telephones than before Saddam was ousted. Some 2,500 schools have been rehabbed by the US-headed coalition. Spending on health care has soared thirtyfold, and millions of Iraqi children have been vaccinated. Iraqi athletes, no longer terrorized by Saddam's sadistic son Uday, are training for the summer Olympics in Greece. Above all, Iraq's people are free. The horror and cruelty of the Saddam era are gone forever. In the 12 months since the American and British troops arrived, not one body has been added to a secret mass grave. Not one woman has been raped on government orders. Not one dissident has been mauled to death by trained killer dogs. Not one Kurdish village has been gassed. Is everything rosy? Of course not. Could the transition to democracy still fail? Yes. Do innocent victims continue to die in horrific terror attacks or at the hands of lynch mobs like the one that dragged the corpses of four Americans through the streets of Falluja yesterday? They do. But none of that changes the bottom line: In the ancient land that America liberated, life is more beautiful and hopeful than it has been in many decades. Bush's foes may loudly deny it, but the refugees streaming homeward know better. [url="http://www.boston.com/news/globe/editorial_opinion/oped/articles/2004/04/01/what_has_gone_right_in_iraq/"]http://www.boston.com/news/globe/editorial..._right_in_iraq/[/url] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nati Ice Posted August 23, 2005 Report Share Posted August 23, 2005 [quote name='oldschooler' date='Aug 23 2005, 12:47 PM']post[/quote] [img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/24.gif[/img] i get it! instead of posting evidence to support your claim, you cite an internet article from a shaky source that only "proves" these things... 1) children have been immunized 2) school attendance is up (from shortly after the war to the present = duh) 3) schools have been renovated (no shit, we kinda destroyed them) 4) port updated to be more cost efficient (umm yea, kinda had to after we ruined the countrys infrastructure) 5) all the same hospitals that were operating pre-invasion are still operating (so what exactly did we do here?) 6) interim constitution has been signed (key word "interim," and how long did that take?) 7) kids learning how to wash their hands ( would be helpful if more of them had soap... but thanks anyways unicef) 8) textbooks no longer mention saddam or the baath party (why exactly would you do this, the only reason i know of is to try to help those to forget, now why does that make sense, isnt this supposed "evil" dictator the type that you would want to remember in order to help stop the return of this type of govt?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BlackJesus Posted August 23, 2005 Report Share Posted August 23, 2005 [i]Hey Nati, at least we clean up after ourselves [/i] [img]http://www.outlookindia.com/images/iraq_bombing_20040112.jpg[/img] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bengalrick Posted August 23, 2005 Report Share Posted August 23, 2005 it isn't a good thing that in 3 years from the start of the war, that we are exceeding almost all levels that saddam had going for the iraqis in 25+ years? the point is, we are rebuildig their country, and we have done so quickly... how did the marshall plan work for europe? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BlackJesus Posted August 23, 2005 Report Share Posted August 23, 2005 [quote]how did the marshall plan work for europe?[/quote] [color="red"][i]we rebuilt Europe so we could trade with them.... we are rebuilding the roads and ports in Iraq so we can PUMP from them [/color][/i] [img]http://gabeanderson.com/life/extras/sf_gas.jpg[/img] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie_B Posted August 23, 2005 Report Share Posted August 23, 2005 Canada is our next target... Sneaky Canadaians with thier beady little eyes... [url="http://www.eia.doe.gov/pub/oil_gas/petroleum/data_publications/company_level_imports/current/import.html"]http://www.eia.doe.gov/pub/oil_gas/petrole...ent/import.html[/url] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie_B Posted August 23, 2005 Report Share Posted August 23, 2005 Im supprised that Japan isnt invading countries for their oil too... [url="http://www.nationmaster.com/graph-T/ene_oil_con"]http://www.nationmaster.com/graph-T/ene_oil_con[/url] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie_B Posted August 23, 2005 Report Share Posted August 23, 2005 Dont go to the pump at these 101 countries above us either... [url="http://www.nationmaster.com/graph-T/ene_gas_pri"]http://www.nationmaster.com/graph-T/ene_gas_pri[/url] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BlackJesus Posted August 23, 2005 Report Share Posted August 23, 2005 [quote]Dont go to the pump at these 101 countries above us either...[/quote] [i][b]of course there's is more expensive... they aren't stealing theres [/b][/i] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest oldschooler Posted August 23, 2005 Report Share Posted August 23, 2005 [quote name='Nati Ice' date='Aug 23 2005, 12:32 PM'] [img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/24.gif[/img] i get it! instead of posting evidence to support your claim, you cite an internet article from a shaky source that only "proves" these things... 1) children have been immunized 2) school attendance is up (from shortly after the war to the present = duh) 3) schools have been renovated (no shit, we kinda destroyed them) 4) port updated to be more cost efficient (umm yea, kinda had to after we ruined the countrys infrastructure) 5) all the same hospitals that were operating pre-invasion are still operating (so what exactly did we do here?) 6) interim constitution has been signed (key word "interim," and how long did that take?) 7) kids learning how to wash their hands ( would be helpful if more of them had soap... but thanks anyways unicef) 8) textbooks no longer mention saddam or the baath party (why exactly would you do this, the only reason i know of is to try to help those to forget, now why does that make sense, isnt this supposed "evil" dictator the type that you would want to remember in order to help stop the return of this type of govt?) [right][post="136291"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote] The Boston Globe and a site that researched an e-mail from an American soldier is "shaky" ? :roll: You`re a dumbass if you actually think we destroyed the whole fucking country and only rebuilt it because we destroyed it . We didn`t do a Hiroshima on them. Anyway yeah it is hard to find the good that has been done in Iraq becuase the news doesn`t report that ! That was my point moron... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nati Ice Posted August 23, 2005 Report Share Posted August 23, 2005 ok, so apparently im a "moron" because you arnt bright enough to figure out that i was only talking about the truthorfiction.com article and not the boston globe piece... riiiiiight... oh, and i never claimed that we "pulled a hiroshima on them," i merely stated that we destroyed mass buildings and killed their infrastructure, thats not really an arguable claim, is it? additionally, it is not hard to find the good news because news doesnt report that, it is hard to find the good news because the bad vastly outweighs the good Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest oldschooler Posted August 23, 2005 Report Share Posted August 23, 2005 [quote name='Nati Ice' date='Aug 23 2005, 01:26 PM']ok, so apparently im a "moron" because you arnt bright enough to figure out that i was only talking about the truthorfiction.com article and not the boston globe piece... riiiiiight...[right][post="136355"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote] That site researched an e-mail from an American soldier. It wasn`t slanted either way. You made it out to be a joke. THAT makes you a moron. [quote]oh, and i never claimed that we "pulled a hiroshima on them," i merely stated that we destroyed mass buildings and killed their infrastructure, thats not really an arguable claim, is it?[/quote] Yeah...We bombed schools hospitals and their infrastucture. More moron shit. :roll: Actually we bombed places that Saddam`s hench men and supporters were hiding in. And before BJ posts some pic of a kid being blown apart. I know that not every bomb hit their target. But it is also a fact that more people have been killed by the insurgents than by America soldiers or bombs. [quote]additionally, it is not hard to find the good news because news doesnt report that, it is hard to find the good news because the bad vastly outweighs the good[/quote] That is complete horseshit. How the fuck do you know ? Because you see so on TV ? Because that`s what is reported ? Just so you know...every time they report a strike by the insurgents/terrorist..they are basically reported the GOOD that happened for them. How about reporting that x amount of terrorist were captured or killed ? How about asking Iraqis what they think ? I`d say that since 72% of Iraqis voted ...that the majority are happy that we are there. Here is a site that talks about some good in Iraq. Oddly enough it actually talks about good that is going on there and not the bad. [url="http://www.untoldiraq.org/"]http://www.untoldiraq.org/[/url] And here are some FACTS and FIGURES from over a year ago. I`m sure you`ll write them off because some of the quotes come from FOX News. :roll: But I guess they are really Fair and Balanced since they at least try to report some good... [b]Education[/b] 3300 Iraqi schools renovated, or soon to be completed, since the overthrow of Saddam ("What We've Accomplished," Fox News Sunday, April 30, 2004) [b]9 Million[/b] New math and science textbooks printed and distributed with pro-Saddam propaganda extracted ("What We've Accomplished," Fox News Sunday, April 30, 2004) 85% Primary and secondary schools that have re-opened since the overthrow of Saddam ("Free After 50 Years of Tyranny," The Observer, October 5, 2003) 159,000 Student desks distributed to Iraqi schools ("Countdown to Sovereignty," Coalition Provisional Authority) 81,735 Teaching kits distributed to Iraqi primary school teachers ("Countdown to Sovereignty," Coalition Provisional Authority) [b]Human Rights[/b] 71% Proportion of Iraqis in a February 2004 survey that said they expected their lives to be even better in a year ("National Survey of Iraq," Oxford Research International, February 2004) 76,000 New jobs created by the Iraqi National Employment Program ("Countdown to Sovereignty," Coalition Provisional Authority) 600 New judges presently working in Iraqi Courts of Law ("What We've Accomplished," Fox News Sunday, April 30, 2004) 170 Newspapers currently published in Iraq ("Countdown to Sovereignty," Coalition Provisional Authority) 33% Percentage of Iraqis that receive worldwide information via satellite ("What We've Accomplished," Fox News Sunday, April 30, 2004) 70 Mosques refurbished by coalition forces ("Countdown to Sovereignty," Coalition Provisional Authority) [b]Healthcare[/b] $1 Billion Current budget for the Iraqi Ministry of Health; 25 times greater than the $16 million annual budget under Saddam's reign ("A Year After Liberation," The Washington Post, April 9, 2004) 25% Increase in immunization rates among Iraqi children ("What We've Accomplished," Fox News Sunday, April 30, 2004) 75 Iraqi medical facilities refurbished by the Coalition Provisional Authority ("Countdown to Sovereignty," Coalition Provisional Authority) 700,000 Pregnant Iraqi women received a tetanus toxoid vaccination to improve their pre-natal healthcare ("Countdown to Sovereignty," Coalition Provisional Authority) [b]Infrastructure[/b] 500,000 Average increase in the daily number of oil barrels produced ("What We've Accomplished," Fox News Sunday, April 30, 2004) 16 Average number of hours of electricity for Iraqi citizens; a 40 percent increase from levels under Saddam ("What We've Accomplished," Fox News Sunday, April 30, 2004) 20 Million Iraqis of the country's 27 million citizens receive clean water due to new water and sanitation projects ("Countdown to Sovereignty," Coalition Provisional Authority) 1,005,580 Iraqi telephone subscribers; a 20 percent increase from under Saddam ("Countdown to Sovereignty," Coalition Provisional Authority) [b]Government and Politics[/b] 67 Iraqi cities with fully functioning municipalities only four months after the beginning of the war ("The Real Iraq," The New York Post, July 17, 2003) 85% Percentage of small Iraqi towns that had fully functioning municipalities only four months after the beginning of the war ("The Real Iraq," The New York Post, July 17, 2003) 81 Iraqi women serve on neighborhood and district councils around Baghdad ("U.S. Commitment to Women in Iraq," Office of International Women's Issues, May 24, 2004) 6 Iraqi women appointed as Cabinet-level ministers in the newly-formed Iraqi Interim Government ("The Interim Iraqi Government," Coalition Provisional Authority, June 1, 2004) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bengalrick Posted August 23, 2005 Report Share Posted August 23, 2005 [url="http://www.eia.doe.gov/emeu/cabs/iraq.html"]click here[/url] [img]http://www.eia.doe.gov/emeu/cabs/images/iraqoil.gif[/img] this article can give us an idea of where they were before the war, and w/ old's stats, we can figure out the true progress of the iraqi's so far... i'd say they are on a good track right now... this mostly covers oil and energy though... hard to find how many schools, etc they had and how well they were stocked... a couple of notes from this piece... [i]Although Iraq's unemployment rate remains high (perhaps 30 percent or more), the overall Iraqi economy appears to be recovering rapidly from its condition just after the war, fueled in large part by U.S. and international reconstruction aid. [b]For 2004, Iraqi real GDP growth was estimated by Global Insight at 54 percent, with 34 percent growth forecast for 2005. This follows a 21.2 percent decline in 2003, on top of more than a decade of economic stagnation and decline.[/b] On October 15, 2003, a new Iraqi currency -- the "New Iraqi Dinar" (NID) -- was introduced, replacing the "old dinar" and the "Swiss dinar" used in the north of the country. Since then, the NID has appreciated sharply, from around 1,950 NID per $U.S. in October 2003 to around 1,538 NID per $U.S. by mid-May 2005. In early February 2004, Iraq was granted observer status at the World Trade Organization (WTO). In late September 2004, Iraq sent the WTO a formal request for membership. [/i] _________________ [i]On May 22, 2003, the U.N. Security Council passed Resolution 1483, lifting sanctions on Iraq, phasing out the 6-year-old U.N. oil-for-food program over six months (the program ended on November 21, 2003), and designating a U.N. "special representative" to assist Iraq in its reconstruction efforts. On May 27, 2003, the U.S. Treasury Department lifted most U.S. sanctions on Iraq, thereby implementing U.N. Security Council Resolution 1483. In November 2003, the U.S. Congress authorized $18.4 billion for Iraq in a "supplemental allocation" aimed at boosting Iraqi reconstruction and economic development. As of early 2005, however, much of this money - perhaps 40 percent or more -- reportedly was being spent on providing security, not on actual reconstruction.[/i] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BlackJesus Posted August 23, 2005 Report Share Posted August 23, 2005 [quote]But it is also a fact that more people have been killed by the insurgents than by America soldiers or bombs.[/quote] [i][b]Old would you like to provide what gives you this idea [img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/37.gif[/img] [/b][/i] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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