oldschooler Posted February 28, 2019 Author Report Share Posted February 28, 2019 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldschooler Posted March 6, 2019 Author Report Share Posted March 6, 2019 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldschooler Posted March 6, 2019 Author Report Share Posted March 6, 2019 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|SF2| Posted March 6, 2019 Report Share Posted March 6, 2019 1 hour ago, oldschooler said: Last year $3mil was guaranteed, $500k workout and $250k roster bonus. The incentive was Per Game Active Bonus: $62,500. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thezerawkid Posted March 6, 2019 Report Share Posted March 6, 2019 1 hour ago, SF2 said: Last year $3mil was guaranteed, $500k workout and $250k roster bonus. The incentive was Per Game Active Bonus: $62,500. I’d be inclined to push for less guaranteed money, more money incentivized. But, and a reminder, I am among the few that want him back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatternMaster Posted March 6, 2019 Report Share Posted March 6, 2019 1 hour ago, thezerawkid said: I’d be inclined to push for less guaranteed money, more money incentivized. But, and a reminder, I am among the few that want him back. Eifert didn't have to compete for a roster spot like the other players because he was held out of a lot of off season and preseason work because of his injury history. Why basically give him a roster spot when the likely outcome is him getting injured? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thezerawkid Posted March 6, 2019 Report Share Posted March 6, 2019 Eifert didn't have to compete for a roster spot like the other players because he was held out of a lot of off season and preseason work because of his injury history. Why basically give him a roster spot when the likely outcome is him getting injured?Because his upside, when healthy, is significantly higher than league average. And, I don’t believe a couple of his seasons (including last season) lost to injury pertain to him being out of football shape or being a glass player. I think he has sustained a couple freak injuries and I believe 3/4 of All Pro production to be greater than a full season of average to mediocre play.Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|SF2| Posted March 6, 2019 Report Share Posted March 6, 2019 30 minutes ago, thezerawkid said: Because his upside, when healthy, is significantly higher than league average. And, I don’t believe a couple of his seasons (including last season) lost to injury pertain to him being out of football shape or being a glass player. I think he has sustained a couple freak injuries and I believe 3/4 of All Pro production to be greater than a full season of average to mediocre play. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 34 minutes ago, PatternMaster said: Eifert didn't have to compete for a roster spot like the other players because he was held out of a lot of off season and preseason work because of his injury history. Why basically give him a roster spot when the likely outcome is him getting injured? Let just put it in perspective: Over the last two years the Bengals have dished out $9.53 mil for a guy who played 6 games, had 19 catches for 225 yards and 1 TD. Ross is an absolute bargain compared to Eifert. Even if you go back and add his last rookie contract year it is 3 years at $11.06 mil for 14 games, 48 catches, 619 yards and 6 TDs. Per game that is 3.43 catches and 44 yards per game over the last 3 years. Places him around 10th in the league yds per game but he only averages 4.5 games per year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thezerawkid Posted March 6, 2019 Report Share Posted March 6, 2019 Let just put it in perspective: Over the last two years the Bengals have dished out $9.53 mil for a guy who played 6 games, had 19 catches for 225 yards and 1 TD. Ross is an absolute bargain compared to Eifert. Even if you go back and add his last rookie contract year it is 3 years at $11.06 mil for 14 games, 48 catches, 619 yards and 6 TDs.Totally fair and all valid.Curiously going back to add just the last year of his rookie contract conveniently displaces his highest output from the equation. We all get that he has been injured a lot, you don’t need to cherry pick which seasons we discuss when analyzes his output and potential value. All that said, your point is well taken. I’m not just not quite ready to cut bait on a, when healthy, generational talent. This isn’t just an above average player we’re talking about, he’s stellar. A cap friendly deal that presents little risk to the team, in lieu of a substantial replacement, and a known quantity at that, isn’t even prudent. What makes his injury last year all the more impactful had more to do with the backups at that very position also suffering similar fates. If we see him up for 3.5-4 million bucks and he gives us 2015-2016 level production and gives us even fourteen regular season games it’s the bargain of the season.Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T-Dub Posted March 6, 2019 Report Share Posted March 6, 2019 Nobody in their right mind is signing a player for 4 games, based on one awesome season they had 4 years ago. You can't sign someone like that & let him not practice, it's a terrible message to send and it's bad business for all kinds of different reasons. Let. It. Go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldschooler Posted March 6, 2019 Author Report Share Posted March 6, 2019 1 hour ago, thezerawkid said: Because his upside, when healthy, is significantly higher than league average. And, I don’t believe a couple of his seasons (including last season) lost to injury pertain to him being out of football shape or being a glass player. I think he has sustained a couple freak injuries and I believe 3/4 of All Pro production to be greater than a full season of average to mediocre play. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk I agree 100%. If Eifert wants to play, a low risk high reward contract is all right with me. I saw signs of the Eifert we all want to see right before being injured in Atlanta. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldschooler Posted March 6, 2019 Author Report Share Posted March 6, 2019 22 minutes ago, T-Dub said: Let. It. Go. I. Really. Don't. Want. To. Though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatternMaster Posted March 6, 2019 Report Share Posted March 6, 2019 15 hours ago, thezerawkid said: Totally fair and all valid. Curiously going back to add just the last year of his rookie contract conveniently displaces his highest output from the equation. We all get that he has been injured a lot, you don’t need to cherry pick which seasons we discuss when analyzes his output and potential value. All that said, your point is well taken. I’m not just not quite ready to cut bait on a, when healthy, generational talent. This isn’t just an above average player we’re talking about, he’s stellar. A cap friendly deal that presents little risk to the team, in lieu of a substantial replacement, and a known quantity at that, isn’t even prudent. What makes his injury last year all the more impactful had more to do with the backups at that very position also suffering similar fates. If we see him up for 3.5-4 million bucks and he gives us 2015-2016 level production and gives us even fourteen regular season games it’s the bargain of the season. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk He had one stellar season 4 years ago and since then he can't give you more than 4 games a season... The idea of guaranteeing a roster spot and 3.5-4 million dollars is just not logical, it's based on fond memories of what could have been. If he takes a vet minimum deal and has to practice like UDFA from West Bumblefuck University and can legitimately make the 53 based on merit then sign me up...but if it's the same thing it's been since he's been here, then I'll take my chances on FA and the draft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatternMaster Posted March 6, 2019 Report Share Posted March 6, 2019 1 hour ago, SF2 said: Let just put it in perspective: Over the last two years the Bengals have dished out $9.53 mil for a guy who played 6 games, had 19 catches for 225 yards and 1 TD. Ross is an absolute bargain compared to Eifert. Even if you go back and add his last rookie contract year it is 3 years at $11.06 mil for 14 games, 48 catches, 619 yards and 6 TDs. Per game that is 3.43 catches and 44 yards per game over the last 3 years. Places him around 10th in the league yds per game but he only averages 4.5 games per year. Unfortunately he can't stay healthy and it's time to move on Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thezerawkid Posted March 7, 2019 Report Share Posted March 7, 2019 53 minutes ago, PatternMaster said: He had one stellar season 4 years ago and since then he can't give you more than 4 games a season... The idea of guaranteeing a roster spot and 3.5-4 million dollars is just not logical, it based on fond memories of what could have been. If he takes a vet minimum deal and has to practice like UDFA from West Bumblefuck University and can legitimately make the 53 based on merit then sign me up...but if it's the same thing since he's been here then I'll take my chances on FA and the draft. Yeah, respectfully agree to disagree and move past this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|SF2| Posted March 7, 2019 Report Share Posted March 7, 2019 2 hours ago, thezerawkid said: Totally fair and all valid. Curiously going back to add just the last year of his rookie contract conveniently displaces his highest output from the equation. We all get that he has been injured a lot, you don’t need to cherry pick which seasons we discuss when analyzes his output and potential value. All that said, your point is well taken. I’m not just not quite ready to cut bait on a, when healthy, generational talent. This isn’t just an above average player we’re talking about, he’s stellar. A cap friendly deal that presents little risk to the team, in lieu of a substantial replacement, and a known quantity at that, isn’t even prudent. What makes his injury last year all the more impactful had more to do with the backups at that very position also suffering similar fates. If we see him up for 3.5-4 million bucks and he gives us 2015-2016 level production and gives us even fourteen regular season games it’s the bargain of the season. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Career Averages: 7 games a year, 286 yards a season, 3.5 TDs a season, 3.3 receptions a game, 39.9 yards a game, average salary of 3 mil a year. Includes 4 years on rookie deal.. He is not a generational talent even when he plays. Not sure why people think this. Travis Kelce’s numbers in 5 seasons(he didn’t play first season) 1047 yards per season, 6.4 tds per season, 5.1 rec a game, 65.5 yards per game. Has missed 1 game in 5 years. His per game average is way better than Eiferts. Ertz: 804 yards a season, 4.33 TDS per season, 4.8 receptions a game, 53 yards per game. Gronk has averaged 68.4 yards per game over his career. That is almost 30 more than Eifert. And lets be honest, Andy would throw every pass to Eifert or Green if he could. Eiifert is a good player when he plays but he isn’t a generational talent by any stretch. If we can get him in very cheap, fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T-Dub Posted March 7, 2019 Report Share Posted March 7, 2019 1 hour ago, PatternMaster said: has to practice like UDFA from West Bumblefuck University That's a big part of it for me, letting this guy skate through TC because you know he can't stay on the field is absurd. Are we building a football team or a collection of fine china? If we're afraid to put him on the field why the fuck are we signing him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thezerawkid Posted March 7, 2019 Report Share Posted March 7, 2019 23 minutes ago, T-Dub said: That's a big part of it for me, letting this guy skate through TC because you know he can't stay on the field is absurd. Are we building a football team or a collection of fine china? If we're afraid to put him on the field why the fuck are we signing him? Well, it certainly remains to be seen how expectations will be meted out under this new, offensive-minded regime. EDIT: Do you feel this way about quality offensive and defensive lineman with 7+ years of service on their bodies? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thezerawkid Posted March 7, 2019 Report Share Posted March 7, 2019 22 minutes ago, SF2 said: Career Averages: 7 games a year, 286 yards a season, 3.5 TDs a season, 3.3 receptions a game, 39.9 yards a game, average salary of 3 mil a year. Includes 4 years on rookie deal.. He is not a generational talent even when he plays. Not sure why people think this. Travis Kelce’s numbers in 5 seasons(he didn’t play first season) 1047 yards per season, 6.4 tds per season, 5.1 rec a game, 65.5 yards per game. Has missed 1 game in 5 years. His per game average is way better than Eiferts. Ertz: 804 yards a season, 4.33 TDS per season, 4.8 receptions a game, 53 yards per game. Gronk has averaged 68.4 yards per game over his career. That is almost 30 more than Eifert. And lets be honest, Andy would throw every pass to Eifert or Green if he could. Eiifert is a good player when he plays but he isn’t a generational talent by any stretch. If we can get him in very cheap, fine. I think most who would otherwise be open to giving him one more go would cite his production in 2015 and the first half of 2016, first and foremost (I suspect if we averaged just that period, his stats would tell a drastically different story). They might also point to the fact that once he got going this past season, things looked very encouraging, certainly not like a guy who had spent roughly half his pro career hung up because of injury. The stats do support your argument. But, I just think we're arguing two different angles and successfully, at that. I'm all for a low risk/high reward scenario for a guy who seems to be a good presence on the team. You're all for cutting bait with someone who hasn't been able to stay on the field (even though half of his issues have been freak accidental injuries and not indicative of a degenerative situation). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|SF2| Posted March 7, 2019 Report Share Posted March 7, 2019 His best season was 2015. He averaged 47.3 yards and 4 receptions per game. 615 yards for the season and 13 tds. Other than the TDs, Gronk has not had a season that bad since his rookie season 9 years ago. That includes this past season many think will be his last since he played so poorly (for Gronk). Eifert is a top 10 TE when he is healthy which isn’t often. Certainly not worth another $5mil. EDIT: He is a top 10 TE on a per game average when plays. He is nowhere near a top 10 TE on a per season basis. Even in 2015 he was 12th in yards per game. His 13TDs led the league but that was simply an outlier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thezerawkid Posted March 7, 2019 Report Share Posted March 7, 2019 6 hours ago, SF2 said: Eifert is a top 10 TE when he is healthy which isn’t often. Certainly not worth another $5mil. Sure it is. $5 mil is what Vernon Davis, the fifteenth highest paid TE in the league will make in 2019. And, who is saying it should be another $5 mil. I think I mentioned $3-4 mil and that would put him down among the 17-20th highest paid, the Darren Fells's and Ryan Griffin's of the league. So, you get a healthy season (or even mostly healthy, would be acceptable from a modern TE), top ten output for lower tier money. Highly incentivized, less guaranteed money, again, because his upside is FAR higher than what the lower half of the league tight ends offer, by a long shot. Roll the dice and give the dude one more shot. After all, it's just money, and we always have plenty left over. And, added bonus, it ain't *your* money being spent. You really wanna keep doing this? Because, I'll keep going. You're not going to convince me, nor are you going to wear me down to your way of thinking. I've already offered up a respectful agree to disagree parting from this discourse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T-Dub Posted March 7, 2019 Report Share Posted March 7, 2019 10 hours ago, thezerawkid said: Well, it certainly remains to be seen how expectations will be meted out under this new, offensive-minded regime. EDIT: Do you feel this way about quality offensive and defensive lineman with 7+ years of service on their bodies? Do I feel the same way about 7 year vets as I do about a guy that had one good season and hasn't been able to stay on the field since? No, no I don't. I also don't feel the same way about Eifert as I do about Balinesian Hindu folk festivals, while we're comparing things that aren't related. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Posted March 7, 2019 Report Share Posted March 7, 2019 I would sign him to a deal similar to last year, with a little less guaranteed and about the same incentives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Le Tigre Posted March 7, 2019 Report Share Posted March 7, 2019 Still not sure how to "incentivize" not breaking an ankle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
membengal Posted March 7, 2019 Report Share Posted March 7, 2019 8 minutes ago, Le Tigre said: Still not sure how to "incentivize" not breaking an ankle. This. It’s not like what happened last year was related to the back or shoulder issues. He looked like his old self in the weeks before the bad luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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