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Darius Phillips 92-Yard Kick Return TD Called Back


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Ticky tack. Legit first contact...dude is blown off the play. Any grab or "shove" is well off the ball and did not affect the run back. 

 

Like I said in another thread...this crap goes on during every KO or punt return everywhere by everybody. Either call it all the time, or don't call it at all. Simple.   

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2 hours ago, Duluoz said:

A lot of talk about the hold being "unneeded" and that Phillips would have scored anyway without it...after watch a few times, I have to admit it was the right call, as the defender had the time, angle and space to get to Phillips had Tate not shoved  him out of the way.

 

 Darius Phillips 92-Yard Kick Return TD Called Back

Thanks for posting this.  I was asking earlier.

Phillips and the Bengals were screwed by the refs.

MikeandKatie or someone should file with the NFL about

this and a few other foul ups.

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2 hours ago, Duluoz said:

I dunno...looks like Tate had a fistful of the defender's jersey up around the collar.

Maybe...but that was after he had already ran the guy out of the way. The ref was making the lame excuse that Tate had "spun him around"... but it's obvious that the guy was attempting to turn back around. 

 

In any event, the alleged "hold" was well after the play was moving downfield, and did not factor whether the defender could make a play. If the invent-a-rule-NFL want to say different, whatevs. At best, it's ticky tack.

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9 minutes ago, Duluoz said:

Here's a shot of the return that seems to scream Tate's blocking contribution was totally unnecessary, but he's got his back to the play so how would he know?

 

70384256_2517545265158138_28230626333582

I know it's old school, but there's the saying every coach I ever had emphasized: if there is a different jersey in front of you, hit it. 

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11 hours ago, Le Tigre said:

Maybe...but that was after he had already ran the guy out of the way. The ref was making the lame excuse that Tate had "spun him around"... but it's obvious that the guy was attempting to turn back around. 

 

In any event, the alleged "hold" was well after the play was moving downfield, and did not factor whether the defender could make a play. If the invent-a-rule-NFL want to say different, whatevs. At best, it's ticky tack.

The refs didn't have a problem with Andrew Brown getting tackled in the middle of his sack before Josh Allen miraculously escaped during the winning scoring drive. And you know the ref was staring right at it in case the defender roughed up the QB. The announcers were fine with it too. They didn't want it to deter them from their Josh Allen deep throating.

 

No, Southpaw, I am not blaming the loss on the refs. My point is that the refs need to be accountable for such simple calls regardless of the teams. It supports the theory that the refs can call or not call whatever the fuck they want at any given time. And that they have an agenda. Look no further than the no PI call in the NFCC game. People that have never watched football in their life knew that was PI. 

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2 hours ago, Hooky said:

The refs didn't have a problem with Andrew Brown getting tackled in the middle of his sack before Josh Allen miraculously escaped during the winning scoring drive. And you know the ref was staring right at it in case the defender roughed up the QB. The announcers were fine with it too. They didn't want it to deter them from their Josh Allen deep throating.

 

No, Southpaw, I am not blaming the loss on the refs. My point is that the refs need to be accountable for such simple calls regardless of the teams. It supports the theory that the refs can call or not call whatever the fuck they want at any given time. And that they have an agenda. Look no further than the no PI call in the NFCC game. People that have never watched football in their life knew that was PI. 

My very own special shout out.....im flattered.  😊.  

I think it was a bullshit call too.  No doubt.  And the non call on the hold at the end of the game was horseshit as well.  Still dont believe there's an agenda.  I still watched a team fully capable of making plays in game to help them win and they didnt.  That kick return would have been the difference in this case, so yes, it stung a little more.  I point just as much to the ridiculous 12 men on the field mistake int he first quarter that led to them opting for 2 pt conversion though.  Just my opinion.    

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5 hours ago, SouthPaw said:

My very own special shout out.....im flattered.  😊.  

I think it was a bullshit call too.  No doubt.  And the non call on the hold at the end of the game was horseshit as well.  Still dont believe there's an agenda.  I still watched a team fully capable of making plays in game to help them win and they didnt.  That kick return would have been the difference in this case, so yes, it stung a little more.  I point just as much to the ridiculous 12 men on the field mistake int he first quarter that led to them opting for 2 pt conversion though.  Just my opinion.    

I didn't say agenda against the bengals specifically. And I said that I'm not blaming the refs for the loss. It doesn't matter what game I'm watching. There are exceedingly more bad calls it seems. And many go through the booth unchanged. And there are so many bad calls that coaches shouldn't need to waste challenges on.  

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Regarding the refs and "agendas", I believe there is an agenda but it's not targeting specific teams they want to lose, but rather the team that makes more sense financially to "keep in the game" - but if the other team wins it's "more power to them".  That's it.  In the majority of the cases the team they want to have an advantage is the home team.  Do your best (as a ref) to tilt the game towards the home team, and more asses stay in seats (and thus buying tap water and piss - er - "beer") and more local TV eyes stay on the game.  When a game is national, there is a national financial incentive to consider, and sometimes that goes against the home team.  It just so happens that there is almost never an incentive to tilt a game the Bengal's way even as the home team, (because their own fans don't even show up ffs) and I believe that is why they don't seem to get the breaks that some other teams do.  I don't base this entirely on watching the Bengals, that would be homerish and unfair.  Back when I used to have the NFL full game package I would watch a LOT of the games and this pattern emerged pretty quickly in the 2000's and expanded dramatically over the past 5-7 years.  Games get tilted, if it goes too far and a blowout emerges really quickly (for example, games with the Chiefs, who don't need any help at all), they will instead start tilting the other way just to try and salvage some interest in the game.  I've seen it time and time again, to the point I can predict its arrival.

 

Some might refute my claims by showing post-game stats, especially penalty totals for each team.  This does nothing to capture the context of the game because a call (or non-call) at a critical, momentum-changing moment is what tilts things, much more so than raw penalty totals.  Just look at the last game, even the media is talking about that one holding call on the kickoff return and just how game-changing it was.  Remember those games over the past couple years where a fumble was overturned (or not overturned), going against the Bengals.  Think about how confident you were in their "winning" the decision, and how back-breaking it was to "lose".  That's the tilt.  Remember watching Mixon finally break off a run, only to have a flag thrown for holding, a "hold" that the replay showed was ticky-tack at best.  Remember watching the opponent break off a run with apparent ease, and the replay showing *much worse* holding, and no call.  That's the tilt.  That's what refs face no real scrutiny over.  And yes, that is something the players, if they're *really* good, can overcome.

 

To be somewhat fair to the refs, it seems some crews are much less likely to tilt than others.  This is another clear pattern that I've observed.  I can't remember which crew it was last year, but I came away very impressed with the head ref because he was very clearly exasperated with his crew for throwing several unjustified flags and picked up more than one.  These refs are few and far between, unfortunately.

 

The thing I can't stand is that there doesn't seem to be any real scrutiny or consequences for the truly horrible officiating in some of these games.  I hated Marvin for not blowing his stack at some of it (I think we all remember how Cowher would explode on refs, and I for one admired him for it), and I'm waiting for Taylor to do so.  It kind of sounded like he did it in front of the team after the last game, but I want to see some animation on the sidelines to draw attention to just how horrible this all is.  Get some Dennis Green "crown their ass" kind of rhetoric going, anything to give us fans something to hold on to.

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3 minutes ago, Le Tigre said:

Pretty much sums up my take in the first couple of paragraphs. Have never said "fixed"...more like the dynamic you described. And, this transcends a number of professional sports--the NBA being chief. 

100% agree, the NBA is just unwatchable IMO.  It might be because I'm the son of a phys ed teacher/basketball coach and I've had the rules drilled into me since childhood, and seeing them ignored is pretty much tick-inducing. 😫

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24 minutes ago, HavePityPlease said:

Regarding the refs and "agendas", I believe there is an agenda but it's not targeting specific teams they want to lose, but rather the team that makes more sense financially to "keep in the game" - but if the other team wins it's "more power to them".  That's it.  In the majority of the cases the team they want to have an advantage is the home team.  Do your best (as a ref) to tilt the game towards the home team, and more asses stay in seats (and thus buying tap water and piss - er - "beer") and more local TV eyes stay on the game.  When a game is national, there is a national financial incentive to consider, and sometimes that goes against the home team.  It just so happens that there is almost never an incentive to tilt a game the Bengal's way even as the home team, (because their own fans don't even show up ffs) and I believe that is why they don't seem to get the breaks that some other teams do.  I don't base this entirely on watching the Bengals, that would be homerish and unfair.  Back when I used to have the NFL full game package I would watch a LOT of the games and this pattern emerged pretty quickly in the 2000's and expanded dramatically over the past 5-7 years.  Games get tilted, if it goes too far and a blowout emerges really quickly (for example, games with the Chiefs, who don't need any help at all), they will instead start tilting the other way just to try and salvage some interest in the game.  I've seen it time and time again, to the point I can predict its arrival.

 

Some might refute my claims by showing post-game stats, especially penalty totals for each team.  This does nothing to capture the context of the game because a call (or non-call) at a critical, momentum-changing moment is what tilts things, much more so than raw penalty totals.  Just look at the last game, even the media is talking about that one holding call on the kickoff return and just how game-changing it was.  Remember those games over the past couple years where a fumble was overturned (or not overturned), going against the Bengals.  Think about how confident you were in their "winning" the decision, and how back-breaking it was to "lose".  That's the tilt.  Remember watching Mixon finally break off a run, only to have a flag thrown for holding, a "hold" that the replay showed was ticky-tack at best.  Remember watching the opponent break off a run with apparent ease, and the replay showing *much worse* holding, and no call.  That's the tilt.  That's what refs face no real scrutiny over.  And yes, that is something the players, if they're *really* good, can overcome.

 

To be somewhat fair to the refs, it seems some crews are much less likely to tilt than others.  This is another clear pattern that I've observed.  I can't remember which crew it was last year, but I came away very impressed with the head ref because he was very clearly exasperated with his crew for throwing several unjustified flags and picked up more than one.  These refs are few and far between, unfortunately.

 

The thing I can't stand is that there doesn't seem to be any real scrutiny or consequences for the truly horrible officiating in some of these games.  I hated Marvin for not blowing his stack at some of it (I think we all remember how Cowher would explode on refs, and I for one admired him for it), and I'm waiting for Taylor to do so.  It kind of sounded like he did it in front of the team after the last game, but I want to see some animation on the sidelines to draw attention to just how horrible this all is.  Get some Dennis Green "crown their ass" kind of rhetoric going, anything to give us fans something to hold on to.

 

 

 

I agree with a lot of what you are saying, but the bolded is my main beef.. I just thinks refs are shit and horrible at their jobs the most.

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22 hours ago, fluhartz said:

 

 

 

I agree with a lot of what you are saying, but the bolded is my main beef.. I just thinks refs are shit and horrible at their jobs the most.

 

 

I think the rules are purposefully made so vague that it's left to their own judgement & their personal bias is making 1/2 the calls.   They don't suck at their jobs, it's just that their jobs are not to call a fair, even game according to the rules.  

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