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It's obvious that Zac Taylor is in over his head


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3 hours ago, spicoli said:

there's just really not very much talent on this team overall and then throw the worst OL in the league in on top of it....I'm not really sure how we can get much of an idea of what kind of coach we truly have right now....and that would have applied to any coach they would have brought in. I mean coaching is great to have and all but obviously you need some talent as well. No one they could have brought in was going to change that here.

either way, I'd rather go 0-16 with a new young coach like Taylor than 8-8 with an old stale coach like Marvin. 

 

Uh....OK? 

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17 hours ago, Le Tigre said:

Uh....OK? 

Well if the goal is to make the playoffs and beyond, how is 8-8 any better than 0-16? The only thing 8.8 gets ya is a worse draft pick. If you can’t make the playoffs what difference does it make? You’re better off putting yourself in a position to acquire better talent, IMO..

 

and as far as the rest of it, do you see winning talent on this team? Who the hell is going to come in here and win with this group of slugs? You don’t think that’s mostly on Ole Marv and Bengals stooge Duke Tobin?

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15 minutes ago, Le Tigre said:

Well, they weren't a "group of slugs" that went to the playoffs for 5 straight years. 

 

So, if you want to begin throwing stones with consistency, then the present group of slugs--including the 2019 draft--is on the new guy (in part)? 

The Bengals haven’t been to the playoffs for awhile now, LT. You act like they were just there.  It was a playoff roster at one time, not anymore though. 


And I loved the pick in 2019. I have no doubt Jonah Williams will be an anchor on that line for years to come. 

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6 minutes ago, spicoli said:

The Bengals haven’t been to the playoffs for awhile now, LT. You act like they were just there.  It was a playoff roster at one time, not anymore though. 


And I loved the pick in 2019. I have no doubt Jonah Williams will be an anchor on that line for years to come. 

 

I would have fewer doubts if he made it back for some games this season.

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59 minutes ago, spicoli said:

The Bengals haven’t been to the playoffs for awhile now, LT. You act like they were just there.  It was a playoff roster at one time, not anymore though. 


And I loved the pick in 2019. I have no doubt Jonah Williams will be an anchor on that line for years to come. 

There are only 7 starters remaining from the 2015 season.  That includes Andre Smith who isn’t a legitimate starter. Eifert who no longer starts and AJ and Dre who are sidelined.  

 

Dalton, Dunlap and Geno are only ones really playing now. Eifert plays about 45% of snaps and has 15 catches for 108 yards and 1TD in 6 games which is 17 yards a game. 

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6 hours ago, I_C_Deadpeople said:

Not to mention the 5 straight playoff teams were full of players who crapped the bed under the big lights. Nothing to be proud of really. 

In fairness to them, several of the earlier playoff teams in that run were very limited teams which over-achieved to reach the playoffs, and one of them was so depleted by injuries that Rex Butthead started at WR. The 2015 team is obviously a different story even with Dalton's injury.

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16 hours ago, Go Tory Go! said:

In fairness to them, several of the earlier playoff teams in that run were very limited teams which over-achieved to reach the playoffs, and one of them was so depleted by injuries that Rex Butthead started at WR. The 2015 team is obviously a different story even with Dalton's injury.

Why the hate for Burkhead?

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4 hours ago, T-Dub said:

Listening to the postgame.. 

 

Zac Taylor:  "Frustrated" & "no one is going to quit".   

 

 

The Q word is starting to pop up--albeit a bit earlier than I expected. The writers will need something to hammer on coming up (they can only go the "suck" and "hate MB" route so many times)...so now it will be "giving up"/"mailing it in" and the Q word. 

 

That would normally be followed with the "he's lost the locker room" drone, but they'll play with Q for at least 4-6 games first. 

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9 minutes ago, Le Tigre said:

The Q word is starting to pop up--albeit a bit earlier than I expected. The writers will need something to hammer on coming up (they can only go the "suck" and "hate MB" route so many times)...so now it will be "giving up"/"mailing it in" and the Q word. 

 

That would normally be followed with the "he's lost the locker room" drone, but they'll play with Q for at least 4-6 games first. 

The fact is you don’t need to quit when you suck this bad. 

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Here are my big picture issues:

1. I am afraid Taylor is well over his head. In fact, I am sure of it. I guess they will hold him and hope it gets better, but that would be simply based on wishful thinking. My main issue is that his offensive system doesn't make any sense. The quote from the Jags defensive lineman who go the pick 6 is pretty chilling. Basically, that whenever Gio is in the game it's a pass and whenever Mixon is in the game it's a run - so he played it that way and was in the right spot. That's insane. Mixon is clearly an excellent receiver - I have no idea why they have stopped using him sometimes in that role. That goes back to Taylor. The lack of TE usage is beyond weird. They re-signed Uzomah and Eifert. Drafted Sample in the SECOND ****ING ROUND. Had three other useful TEs on the roster behind those three. And every gameplan we've seen, that position group is an afterthought. The Turner hire (his buddy) at o-line was HIGHLY questionable at the time and has only gotten worse. We are told over and over again that the o-line coach designs the run game and run fits - well - this is at this point, statistically, one of the worst rushing teams of all time. Turner wanted Hart back - sung his praises. I assume Turner signed off on Miller at RG. Whatever else has gone on in that room, we all knew that o-line needed to be addressed and get better this year after a historically bad line last year, and it has somehow gotten worse. It is hard to look at Taylor through seven games and have any confidence in him on any level.

2. Whatever is going on between Tobin and Taylor and who is shopping for the groceries etc is profoundly off. Tobin should already be gone. You know what would help a trash line? Someone like Lamar Jackson. Course, we passed on him to reach for Billy Price, who apparently is genuinely bad. The years of over-looking needs at LB. The missed picks at o-line. Whatever the ****ing thought process was that lead to reaching for Drew Sample in the 2nd round - a blocking TE in a scheme that doesn't emphasize TE usage at all - I don't even know what to say. It's disastrous. It's not just the losing - it is the losing with nothing that looks like a coherent plan or approach to building a team and an organizational vision. The decision to extend Gio with no plan on how to use him - just, why? Why is he here?

3. It is hard to look at AJ and some of the other slow recoveries from injuries and not raise an eyebrow. Players on the field are trying, but, man, it doesn't feel like players are rushing to be back.

4. More coaching weirdness that I don't get - Dennard believed he was ready at end of camp but team chose to PUP him. That was a waste. They cut Devontae Harris (who is now starting in Denver) to keep Tony McRae, who is absolutely bad at his job. The gameplans a few weeks ago that had Billings dropping into coverage. Gameplans where they only rush two. I don't get what they are doing, at all.

5. It was only injuries that forced their hand on letting Brandon Wilson return kicks. What in the hell took so long? Why did injuries have to force that?

6. Dalton is indeed done.

7. I don't even have a point, I am just rambling/ranting. If there was any sense of plan, they would, as I have been calling for, trade everything not tied down to stockpile a LOT of picks. Get their next QB at the top of the draft and start filling in. Fire their kinda GM before the next round of grocery shopping. Bring in a real GM and let him make the call on Taylor getting another chance. Shoot Jim Turner into the sun. I doubt they do any of that. I am guessing this all ends with the team in their new home in San Diego in 2027.

8. Sigh.

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1 hour ago, membengal said:

Here are my big picture issues:

1. I am afraid Taylor is well over his head. In fact, I am sure of it. I guess they will hold him and hope it gets better, but that would be simply based on wishful thinking. My main issue is that his offensive system doesn't make any sense. The quote from the Jags defensive lineman who go the pick 6 is pretty chilling. Basically, that whenever Gio is in the game it's a pass and whenever Mixon is in the game it's a run - so he played it that way and was in the right spot. That's insane. Mixon is clearly an excellent receiver - I have no idea why they have stopped using him sometimes in that role. That goes back to Taylor. The lack of TE usage is beyond weird. They re-signed Uzomah and Eifert. Drafted Sample in the SECOND ****ING ROUND. Had three other useful TEs on the roster behind those three. And every gameplan we've seen, that position group is an afterthought. The Turner hire (his buddy) at o-line was HIGHLY questionable at the time and has only gotten worse. We are told over and over again that the o-line coach designs the run game and run fits - well - this is at this point, statistically, one of the worst rushing teams of all time. Turner wanted Hart back - sung his praises. I assume Turner signed off on Miller at RG. Whatever else has gone on in that room, we all knew that o-line needed to be addressed and get better this year after a historically bad line last year, and it has somehow gotten worse. It is hard to look at Taylor through seven games and have any confidence in him on any level.

2. Whatever is going on between Tobin and Taylor and who is shopping for the groceries etc is profoundly off. Tobin should already be gone. You know what would help a trash line? Someone like Lamar Jackson. Course, we passed on him to reach for Billy Price, who apparently is genuinely bad. The years of over-looking needs at LB. The missed picks at o-line. Whatever the ****ing thought process was that lead to reaching for Drew Sample in the 2nd round - a blocking TE in a scheme that doesn't emphasize TE usage at all - I don't even know what to say. It's disastrous. It's not just the losing - it is the losing with nothing that looks like a coherent plan or approach to building a team and an organizational vision. The decision to extend Gio with no plan on how to use him - just, why? Why is he here?

3. It is hard to look at AJ and some of the other slow recoveries from injuries and not raise an eyebrow. Players on the field are trying, but, man, it doesn't feel like players are rushing to be back.

4. More coaching weirdness that I don't get - Dennard believed he was ready at end of camp but team chose to PUP him. That was a waste. They cut Devontae Harris (who is now starting in Denver) to keep Tony McRae, who is absolutely bad at his job. The gameplans a few weeks ago that had Billings dropping into coverage. Gameplans where they only rush two. I don't get what they are doing, at all.

5. It was only injuries that forced their hand on letting Brandon Wilson return kicks. What in the hell took so long? Why did injuries have to force that?

6. Dalton is indeed done.

7. I don't even have a point, I am just rambling/ranting. If there was any sense of plan, they would, as I have been calling for, trade everything not tied down to stockpile a LOT of picks. Get their next QB at the top of the draft and start filling in. Fire their kinda GM before the next round of grocery shopping. Bring in a real GM and let him make the call on Taylor getting another chance. Shoot Jim Turner into the sun. I doubt they do any of that. I am guessing this all ends with the team in their new home in San Diego in 2027.

8. Sigh.

Your post is spot on, but we're not getting a GM. Sample in the 2nd round does not smell like a MB pick to me. I think these coaches have more say in the draft process than most of us think. I could've swore I saw Atkins at DE a couple of times...WTF? He needs to stay on the inside. I've said it many times, this team regresses every week. That's on the coaches.

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37 minutes ago, OneHeartBeat said:

Your post is spot on, but we're not getting a GM. Sample in the 2nd round does not smell like a MB pick to me. I think these coaches have more say in the draft process than most of us think. I could've swore I saw Atkins at DE a couple of times...WTF? He needs to stay on the inside. I've said it many times, this team regresses every week. That's on the coaches.

The Sample pick was absolutely atrocious based on how he has been utilized.  He has averaged about 20% of offensive snaps and plays on 45% of team's snaps.  That is the participation line for a 4th rounder, not the 52nd overall pick of a team needing players almost everywhere.    He has caught 5 passes for 30 yards in 7 games and frankly sucks at blocking.  

 

Then you have 3rd round pick Germaine Pratt at linebacker.  He has mustered only 16% of the defensive team snaps this year and only 27% of the special teams snaps.   Yesterday, he finally played more than 20% of the ST snaps playing 68% but it took until game 7 to do something with him?

 

The math works out like this:  For a team in desperate need of players, the first 4 picks in this year's draft have averaged 9.25% of the snaps for their unit.  That includes the utterly useless pick of Ryan Finley to the team in the 4th round.  I highly doubt there was any plan for him other than being the backup to Dalton just in case Andy went down during our playoff push. 

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42 minutes ago, SF2 said:

The Sample pick was absolutely atrocious based on how he has been utilized.  He has averaged about 20% of offensive snaps and plays on 45% of team's snaps.  That is the participation line for a 4th rounder, not the 52nd overall pick of a team needing players almost everywhere.    He has caught 5 passes for 30 yards in 7 games and frankly sucks at blocking.  

 

Then you have 3rd round pick Germaine Pratt at linebacker.  He has mustered only 16% of the defensive team snaps this year and only 27% of the special teams snaps.   Yesterday, he finally played more than 20% of the ST snaps playing 68% but it took until game 7 to do something with him?

 

The math works out like this:  For a team in desperate need of players, the first 4 picks in this year's draft have averaged 9.25% of the snaps for their unit.  That includes the utterly useless pick of Ryan Finley to the team in the 4th round.  I highly doubt there was any plan for him other than being the backup to Dalton just in case Andy went down during our playoff push. 

I can't argue with this. It's absolutely pathetic. I don't understand why this team refuses to address some of its needs in FA? Why it refuses to trade some of it's aging stars for picks? I think we end up with the #1 pick. The questions is...will they blow that too?

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2 hours ago, membengal said:

Here are my big picture issues:

1. I am afraid Taylor is well over his head. In fact, I am sure of it. I guess they will hold him and hope it gets better, but that would be simply based on wishful thinking. My main issue is that his offensive system doesn't make any sense. The quote from the Jags defensive lineman who go the pick 6 is pretty chilling. Basically, that whenever Gio is in the game it's a pass and whenever Mixon is in the game it's a run - so he played it that way and was in the right spot. That's insane. Mixon is clearly an excellent receiver - I have no idea why they have stopped using him sometimes in that role. That goes back to Taylor. The lack of TE usage is beyond weird. They re-signed Uzomah and Eifert. Drafted Sample in the SECOND ****ING ROUND. Had three other useful TEs on the roster behind those three. And every gameplan we've seen, that position group is an afterthought. The Turner hire (his buddy) at o-line was HIGHLY questionable at the time and has only gotten worse. We are told over and over again that the o-line coach designs the run game and run fits - well - this is at this point, statistically, one of the worst rushing teams of all time. Turner wanted Hart back - sung his praises. I assume Turner signed off on Miller at RG. Whatever else has gone on in that room, we all knew that o-line needed to be addressed and get better this year after a historically bad line last year, and it has somehow gotten worse. It is hard to look at Taylor through seven games and have any confidence in him on any level.

2. Whatever is going on between Tobin and Taylor and who is shopping for the groceries etc is profoundly off. Tobin should already be gone. You know what would help a trash line? Someone like Lamar Jackson. Course, we passed on him to reach for Billy Price, who apparently is genuinely bad. The years of over-looking needs at LB. The missed picks at o-line. Whatever the ****ing thought process was that lead to reaching for Drew Sample in the 2nd round - a blocking TE in a scheme that doesn't emphasize TE usage at all - I don't even know what to say. It's disastrous. It's not just the losing - it is the losing with nothing that looks like a coherent plan or approach to building a team and an organizational vision. The decision to extend Gio with no plan on how to use him - just, why? Why is he here?

3. It is hard to look at AJ and some of the other slow recoveries from injuries and not raise an eyebrow. Players on the field are trying, but, man, it doesn't feel like players are rushing to be back.

4. More coaching weirdness that I don't get - Dennard believed he was ready at end of camp but team chose to PUP him. That was a waste. They cut Devontae Harris (who is now starting in Denver) to keep Tony McRae, who is absolutely bad at his job. The gameplans a few weeks ago that had Billings dropping into coverage. Gameplans where they only rush two. I don't get what they are doing, at all.

5. It was only injuries that forced their hand on letting Brandon Wilson return kicks. What in the hell took so long? Why did injuries have to force that?

6. Dalton is indeed done.

7. I don't even have a point, I am just rambling/ranting. If there was any sense of plan, they would, as I have been calling for, trade everything not tied down to stockpile a LOT of picks. Get their next QB at the top of the draft and start filling in. Fire their kinda GM before the next round of grocery shopping. Bring in a real GM and let him make the call on Taylor getting another chance. Shoot Jim Turner into the sun. I doubt they do any of that. I am guessing this all ends with the team in their new home in San Diego in 2027.

8. Sigh.

Outstanding post.

Especially 1, and 6.

Don't forget they also cut Pharoh Cooper, who came back the very next week and killed us with the Cardinals.

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20 hours ago, Le Tigre said:

The Q word is starting to pop up--albeit a bit earlier than I expected. The writers will need something to hammer on coming up (they can only go the "suck" and "hate MB" route so many times)...so now it will be "giving up"/"mailing it in" and the Q word. 

 

That would normally be followed with the "he's lost the locker room" drone, but they'll play with Q for at least 4-6 games first. 

 

Lapham was really hammering the "why no Mixon" angle in his postgame questions.  He asked John Jerry like hrmm any ideas why you fall down so much? Have you & Joe met?  That locker room was quiet as the grave too.

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54 minutes ago, Go Tory Go! said:

I'm pretty sure when someone told Mike Brown he could have Sample, he thought he was just trying him out and wouldn't have to buy if he didn't like it

I heard they were passing a out Tostinos Pizza Roll samples and Mike Brown  demanded more free Samples. Next thing he knew Troy was running to the podium with the second pick. 

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  • 2 weeks later...

A number of players have already spoken in support of AD (AJ's non-commital comments not included). For the most part, these are still ML's lads--not certain any of them have truly followed this guy anyway, so it's hard to lose what you have never had. In any event, it would stand to reason that simply by the way this season has unfolded, the older veterans have already tuned him out. Everyone else will want to still get paid after this season, so party line will always be front and center. 

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