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It's obvious that Zac Taylor is in over his head


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2 hours ago, spicoli said:

He absolutely needed to go. Finishing 8-8 every year does absolutely nothing whatsoever to move this team forward. 0-16 is actually a better way to move this team forward than 8-8 every year, IMO. At least it gives them a shot at a potential difference maker in the draft and if nothing else it might embarrass Mikey enough to actually try something different in the off-season. 

None of that worked in the '90's, and it still doesn't. 

 

And 8-8 every season is disingenuous. He had 6 non-winning seasons in 16.

 

Zac Taylor will desperately need a win a season to make him relevant (barely). Have any ideas as to his successor?    

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2 hours ago, spicoli said:

He absolutely needed to go. Finishing 8-8 every year does absolutely nothing whatsoever to move this team forward. 0-16 is actually a better way to move this team forward than 8-8 every year, IMO. At least it gives them a shot at a potential difference maker in the draft and if nothing else it might embarrass Mikey enough to actually try something different in the off-season. 

He didn't finish 8-8 every year. He took us to the playoffs multiple times. I can remember when we just getting to the post-season was something we hadn't done in years . Marvin took over a 2-14 team and they improved week to week. I believe that 2-14 finished 8-8 the following year under Marvin. By his 3rd season, this team was in the playoffs. It's too bad he couldn't get over the hump in the post-season, but I'll take getting there any day over this garbage we're seeing now.

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17 hours ago, Go Tory Go! said:

The argument would be that a single season isn't a fair reflection of his potential - that he needs time to gather the personnel which suit his gameplan - and that a never-ending coaching carousel (e.g. Stains) is self-perpetuating for that reason.

 

Here's my question though - in the history of the NFL, has any coach who started so poorly ever 'come good' and amounted to anything when given more time or multiple chances?

 

None come to mind. What does come to mind is Hue Jackson being given a 2nd season after his 0-fer.

 

Look at Marvin, for example. Yes, after 16 years or whatever we all know his faults. But when he took over, it took less than a season to turn around what was a total laughingstock and show he was a different class from any of the clowns that preceded him - an immediate impact.

Jimmy Johnson, 1-15 first year, Bill Walsh 2-14 first year.  Just Saying!!

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1 hour ago, Le Tigre said:

Zac Taylor will desperately need a win a season to make him relevant (barely). Have any ideas as to his successor?

nope, don't care either....just keep throwing someone different out there every year, they'll hit on one eventually. 

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1 hour ago, OneHeartBeat said:

He didn't finish 8-8 every year. He took us to the playoffs multiple times. I can remember when we just getting to the post-season was something we hadn't done in years . Marvin took over a 2-14 team and they improved week to week. I believe that 2-14 finished 8-8 the following year under Marvin. By his 3rd season, this team was in the playoffs. It's too bad he couldn't get over the hump in the post-season, but I'll take getting there any day over this garbage we're seeing now.

I mean if you don't make the playoffs what difference does it make?

7-9, 8-8 ....that's just false hope and bad draft positions. 

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3 minutes ago, spicoli said:

I mean if you don't make the playoffs what difference does it make?

7-9, 8-8 ....that's just false hope and bad draft positions. 

The draft is a crapshoot. I'll take 8-8 and 7-9 any day over this embarrassment and the likelihood this team is going to go 0-16.

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12 minutes ago, OneHeartBeat said:

The draft is a crapshoot. I'll take 8-8 and 7-9 any day over this embarrassment and the likelihood this team is going to go 0-16.

I know this...status quo (8-8) will never ever make Mike Brown change one iota, 0-16 however, that very well might. 

 

and the draft is much less of a crapshoot for other teams that actually scout well. If you get a shot at the very best player in the draft however, it's a little harder to screw up. 

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8 hours ago, kennethmw said:

Jimmy Johnson, 1-15 first year, Bill Walsh 2-14 first year.  Just Saying!!

Everyone knew what Dallas' strategy was during Johnson's first few years.  Full rebuild, stockpiled picks and built a world class o line in FA.  Franchise QB pick 1, Emmitt Smith the next year and in the 3rd year they had 11 picks in the first 4 rounds, 3 first round picks.  

 

Walsh was just a great coach.  They got Montana the first year but he wasn't the day 1 starter until year 3.   Walsh was an amazing coach.   Who was the number 2 rusher the first year Walsh was the 49er's coach?

 

So what is the Bengals’ strategy?

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5 hours ago, SF2 said:

Everyone knew what Dallas' strategy was during Johnson's first few years.  Full rebuild, stockpiled picks and built a world class o line in FA.  Franchise QB pick 1, Emmitt Smith the next year and in the 3rd year they had 11 picks in the first 4 rounds, 3 first round picks.  

 

Walsh was just a great coach.  They got Montana the first year but he wasn't the day 1 starter until year 3.   Walsh was an amazing coach.   Who was the number 2 rusher the first year Walsh was the 49er's coach. 
 

So what is the Bengals’ strategy?

 

Lenvil Elliot?

 

Edit - OJ !! I has to look it up

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2 hours ago, spicoli said:

I know this...status quo (8-8) will never ever make Mike Brown change one iota, 0-16 however, that very well might. 

 

and the draft is much less of a crapshoot for other teams that actually scout well. If you get a shot at the very best player in the draft however, it's a little harder to screw up. 

And yet, we’ll find a way to do it. Either that or he’ll get hurt in training camp.

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The only thing a top draft pick guarantees is the top salary that comes with them.   We employ one (1) college scout.    

 

To put it another way, our Top 10 picks since taking Carson first overall:  Rivers, Andre, AJ, and Ross. 

 

I don't like our chances & would prefer we trade down.  The cupboard is bare.

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7 minutes ago, T-Dub said:

The only thing a top draft pick guarantees is the top salary that comes with them.   We employ one (1) college scout.    

 

To put it another way, our Top 10 picks since taking Carson first overall:  Rivers, Andre, AJ, and Ross. 

 

I don't like our chances & would prefer we trade down.  The cupboard is bare.

In fairness, if they're picking top 2 and Tua and Chase Young are the choices, it's gonna be awfully hard to screw it up. 

 

 

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1 minute ago, spicoli said:

In fairness, if they're picking top 2 and Tua and Chase Young are the choices, it's gonna be awfully hard to screw it up. 

 

 

 

Eh IDK, odds are one of the two won't live up to expectations for whatever reason.   Neither are in any way guaranteed.

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34 minutes ago, T-Dub said:

The only thing a top draft pick guarantees is the top salary that comes with them.   We employ one (1) college scout.    

 

To put it another way, our Top 10 picks since taking Carson first overall:  Rivers, Andre, AJ, and Ross. 

 

I don't like our chances & would prefer we trade down.  The cupboard is bare.

Remember the salary structure is different than Carson days.

 

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5 hours ago, SF2 said:

Everyone knew what Dallas' strategy was during Johnson's first few years.  Full rebuild, stockpiled picks and built a world class o line in FA.  Franchise QB pick 1, Emmitt Smith the next year and in the 3rd year they had 11 picks in the first 4 rounds, 3 first round picks.  

 

Walsh was just a great coach.  They got Montana the first year but he wasn't the day 1 starter until year 3.   Walsh was an amazing coach.   Who was the number 2 rusher the first year Walsh was the 49er's coach.  
 

So what is the Bengals’ strategy?

yep..

 

they also had owners that wanted to win at all cost.

 

well almost all costs... jones couldn't handle Johnson getting more credit than him after they won a couple super bowls 

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1 hour ago, T-Dub said:

 

Eh IDK, odds are one of the two won't live up to expectations for whatever reason.   Neither are in any way guaranteed.

I think Chase Young is as about as close to a guarantee as you can possibly get.

Barring injury, he's going to dominate from day 1. 

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1 hour ago, spicoli said:

In fairness, if they're picking top 2 and Tua and Chase Young are the choices, it's gonna be awfully hard to screw it up. 

 

 

It is not so much screwing up the top pick. It is about the rest of the team and the lack of everything else needed to win. The 1 guy will make a difference in some regard but it wont change the organization.

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OK...I'll interrupt this free flow, with an important question about this cat Chase Young:

 

Who is this guy? 

 

Yeah, I can read...world class something or other. Heard the same thing about Clowney. Just what does he do: is he a hand-on-the-ground DE...a hybrid DE/LB...a standup LB? The probable answer will be: all of that. If so, let me query the college FB experts here with this:

 

He is 6'5"/265...not bad size for a DE in college. But, how is he as a run defender, shedding blocks, sealing the end? Enough bulk? Remember, speed alone won't be the end all in a 3-down DE in the NFL...linemen can hold way more at the next level. 

 

Is he only a pass rusher? Isn't there already a one-trick pony like that on this team (Lawson)?

 

Has he played up-and-down at OSU...hybrid DE/LB? Has he ever played LB at all? Does he have coverage skills...staying with a TE and/or RB? 

 

If he is this all-universe Swiss Army knife who can do everything...let's see it. 

 

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4 hours ago, SF2 said:

Everyone knew what Dallas' strategy was during Johnson's first few years.  Full rebuild, stockpiled picks and built a world class o line in FA.  Franchise QB pick 1, Emmitt Smith the next year and in the 3rd year they had 11 picks in the first 4 rounds, 3 first round picks.  

 

Walsh was just great coach.  They got Montana the first year but he wasn't the day 1 starter until year 3.   Walsh was an amazing coach.   Who was the number 2 rusher the first year Walsh was the 49er's coach?

He said what great coaches had bad first years.  I gave two.  Now, you can go make excuses for why, but hell, they may make the same excuses for Zac in twenty years.  Personally, I'm a believer that a coach should get three years at least if his team doesn't quit on him.  Currently, this team hasn't quit.  They've played like shit, but they haven't quit.

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1 hour ago, Le Tigre said:

OK...I'll interrupt this free flow, with an important question about this cat Chase Young:

 

Who is this guy? 

 

Yeah, I can read...world class something or other. Heard the same thing about Clowney. Just what does he do: is he a hand-on-the-ground DE...a hybrid DE/LB...a standup LB? The probable answer will be: all of that. If so, let me query the college FB experts here with this:

 

He is 6'5"/265...not bad size for a DE in college. But, how is he as a run defender, shedding blocks, sealing the end? Enough bulk? Remember, speed alone won't be the end all in a 3-down DE in the NFL...linemen can hold way more at the next level. 

 

Is he only a pass rusher? Isn't there already a one-trick pony like that on this team (Lawson)?

 

Has he played up-and-down at OSU...hybrid DE/LB? Has he ever played LB at all? Does he have coverage skills...staying with a TE and/or RB? 

 

If he is this all-universe Swiss Army knife who can do everything...let's see it. 

 

Difference maker, will have to not only be accounted it for by the offense on every play but the the offense will have to try and scheme around him. 

 

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/news/2020-nfl-draft-prospect-rankings-why-chase-young-is-our-clear-no-1-plus-more-on-our-top-30/

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5 minutes ago, I_C_Deadpeople said:

Difference maker, will have to not only be accounted it for by the offense on every play but the the offense will have to try and scheme around him. 

 

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/news/2020-nfl-draft-prospect-rankings-why-chase-young-is-our-clear-no-1-plus-more-on-our-top-30/

 

Sounds like the same hype we heard about Ross only on defense.  NFL isn't ready, immediate Hall of Fame player, nobody can possibly match up to him, instant upgrade etc etc.  I mean I'm sure he looked great against Northwestern or whoever but everyone in the NFL was a big badass in college.

 

 

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10 hours ago, kennethmw said:

He said what great coaches had bad first years.  I gave two.  Now, you can go make excuses for why, but hell, they may make the same excuses for Zac in twenty years.  Personally, I'm a believer that a coach should get three years at least if his team doesn't quit on him.  Currently, this team hasn't quit.  They've played like shit, but they haven't quit.

My point is Jimmy Johnson absolutely had a plan.  The Cowboys blew it up and started over. Got draft picks and quality FAs. They knew the first year would be rough.
 

The Bengals have done no such thing.  The defense is almost identical to the 32nd ranked one from last year. The offense is almost the exact same but older and worse than last year. 
 

I wouldn’t have an issue with Taylor’s record if there seemed to be a strategy.  Instead last years team is still here and is getting worse. 

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