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Definition of Absolute Rock Bottom


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 Would like to see all four options play out. Just for entertainment purposes at least. 

 

 

If we look long term it can get much lower. 

Few things

As long as Lamar Jackson is healthy we might not beat the Rat birds again until he retires. 

My earliest memory of Bengals football is 1990. Correct me if I'm wrong but in the time since I think I can count on two hands how many times we've beat the Stealers. So no reason to assume that trend will change.  

Hate the Browns but have to give them credit. At least they are willing to roll the dice and make moves to try and improve the team. 

All this said rock bottom will be after another half decade of 4 to 7 wins a season being a over achievement.  From my understanding this will be around the same time the contract is up with the city of Cincinnati?  So I'm almost certain that the Bengals will be the London, San Antonio or Mexico City team. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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I am almost to the point I want the Bengals go 0-16.  I hate feeling that way but winning a couple of games or so especially later in the season will allow Mike Brown give his "we are starting to turn things around" excuse to not make any changes.....not that he will anyway.

 

At least going 0-16 and just keep the status quo will have every one talking.  Remember how fast the NFL made Jerry Richardson sell the Panthers after those sexual harassment charges?  I think the NFL owners have a lot of power but as others say it is probably a behind the scenes structure. 

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4 hours ago, SF2 said:

As humorous as some of the banter on MBS.com was, in the end you simply realize that the average Joe has no power to do anything based on the revenue sharing arraignment so you simply got tired of complaining about it every day. 


As far as stadium revenue goes how much more does the club actually get?  What is the actual "profit" not revenue that those extra 20,000 tickets generate?  First of all the tickets not being sold are the upper level so figure about $50 a ticket on average times 8 games times 20,000 unsold seats is about $8,000,000.  Here is the important thing, the Bengals, as does every other team has to share 40% of their gate revenue to the NFL.  That money is put in a big pot and then shared evenly among the teams.  Basically, the per ticket profit of those extra tickets are not much considering Bengals tickets are WAY cheaper than most of the other clubs.  Yeah, now you know why owners like Jerry Jones and Bob Kraft  dislike the Browns.  

 

In simple numbers its ugly.  Based on current attendance averages:  Keep in mind 40% of gate receipts go back to the league.  Dallas and New England have been sold out for years.

 

Patriots season tickets average cost is $127 per at 65,878 seats :  $67mil revenue, $26.8 mil returned to NFL to be shared

Cowboys season tickets average cost is $110 at 91,181 seats:  $80,2 mil revenue, $32.1 mil returned to the NFL to be shared

Bengals season tickets average cost is $77 at 46,345 seats: $28.5 mil in revenues, $11.4 mil returned to the NFL to be shared.

 

And before you pull the small market card the Packers average ticket costs $123 @ 78k seats and New Orleans is $98 @ 73k seats.   Both cities metropolitan areas are WAY smaller than Cincinnati.   Winning fixes everything.

 

So basically, the Bengals are currently making way more money with the 40% shared ticket revenue they receive than from the 60% of their game gate they get to keep.  I can't even imagine what the Chargers numbers look like. 

 

 

 

Thanks for the explanation, I was not clear on the 40% to the league and that was included in the shared revenue. I have no doubt there are plenty of owners that cant wait for Mikey to be gone. He truly gets far far more than he gives to the league with no attempts to change that. What a fat lazy leach. 

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Throw Oakland into that equation too. The upper level of Alameda County Coliseum has been tarped off for years. But, as I noted, the LA Chargers FC and Raiders have beautiful new pleasure palaces waiting for them--the only reason they are moving to begin with. 

 

But , will take them some time to really make themselves viable to the NFL as 60%-ers. In reality, neither are any better or worse than the Bengals.

 

 

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13 hours ago, Catfish Bob said:

 Would like to see all four options play out. Just for entertainment purposes at least. 

 

 

If we look long term it can get much lower. 

Few things

As long as Lamar Jackson is healthy we might not beat the Rat birds again until he retires. 

My earliest memory of Bengals football is 1990. Correct me if I'm wrong but in the time since I think I can count on two hands how many times we've beat the Stealers. So no reason to assume that trend will change.  

Hate the Browns but have to give them credit. At least they are willing to roll the dice and make moves to try and improve the team. 

All this said rock bottom will be after another half decade of 4 to 7 wins a season being a over achievement.  From my understanding this will be around the same time the contract is up with the city of Cincinnati?  So I'm almost certain that the Bengals will be the London, San Antonio or Mexico City team. 

 

The Bengals aren't going anywhere. If they tried to move, it would open the door for a forced sale of the team from the Brown family. They won't allow that. So we're stuck with them. We can only hope Mike Brown dies soon and Katie decides to maximize her profits by letting pros run the team.

 

 

 

 

 

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12 hours ago, Le Tigre said:

Throw Oakland into that equation too. The upper level of Alameda County Coliseum has been tarped off for years. But, as I noted, the LA Chargers FC and Raiders have beautiful new pleasure palaces waiting for them--the only reason they are moving to begin with. 

 

But , will take them some time to really make themselves viable to the NFL as 60%-ers. In reality, neither are any better or worse than the Bengals.

 

 

Very true.  I really think the Chargers are moving again.  I don't see them selling many tickets and I think Rivers is done.  LA doesn't give a shit about the Chargers and barely cares about the Rams.  I am sure the Vegas Raiders will be an absolute success story.  WAY too many people with huge amounts of money will want in on that act.   Throw in the fact flights to Vegas are usually dirt cheap from almost anywhere so plenty of opposing fans will fly out to spend a few days there and catch a game.

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52 minutes ago, SF2 said:

Very true.  I really think the Chargers are moving again.  I don't see them selling many tickets and I think Rivers is done.  LA doesn't give a shit about the Chargers and barely cares about the Rams.  I am sure the Vegas Raiders will be an absolute success story.  WAY too many people with huge amounts of money will want in on that act.   Throw in the fact flights to Vegas are usually dirt cheap from almost anywhere so plenty of opposing fans will fly out to spend a few days there and catch a game.

LA, at least from the many people I know who live in the area, never cared if the NFL came back at all. That, coupled with two teams vying for the same indifferent fans, does not bode well. I would imagine their joint pleasure palace will, however, attract a lot of opposing teams' fans who live there. 

 

LV is something different. Many people do not realize the number of people there who are actually born-and-bred locals. The support these types give the Golden Knights, makes that ticket the hardest to get in the NHL. I have no doubt these same people will fill up their new place to the point where tourists and opposing fans from other places will be afterthoughts.     

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On 11/12/2019 at 10:52 AM, Le Tigre said:

LA, at least from the many people I know who live in the area, never cared if the NFL came back at all. That, coupled with two teams vying for the same indifferent fans, does not bode well. I would imagine their joint pleasure palace will, however, attract a lot of opposing teams' fans who live there. 

 

LV is something different. Many people do not realize the number of people there who are actually born-and-bred locals. The support these types give the Golden Knights, makes that ticket the hardest to get in the NHL. I have no doubt these same people will fill up their new place to the point where tourists and opposing fans from other places will be afterthoughts.     

I could see the Chargers going to either Mexico City or London, the NFL will have an international team in the next 10 years 

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On 11/12/2019 at 7:52 AM, Le Tigre said:

LA, at least from the many people I know who live in the area, never cared if the NFL came back at all. That, coupled with two teams vying for the same indifferent fans, does not bode well. I would imagine their joint pleasure palace will, however, attract a lot of opposing teams' fans who live there. 

 

LV is something different. Many people do not realize the number of people there who are actually born-and-bred locals. The support these types give the Golden Knights, makes that ticket the hardest to get in the NHL. I have no doubt these same people will fill up their new place to the point where tourists and opposing fans from other places will be afterthoughts.     

Most were for the Rams coming back. The ones against it were citing traffic, gentrification in Inglewood (happening anyways) and dumbass Raider fans. No one wanted the Chargers here, even Chargers fans which I do have in my family. 
You're spot on about Las Vegas. My Vegas brother and nephews have been hardcore Knights fans as is the town and they can’t wait for Raidernation to come. 

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I don't go to the team website much but did today and this mailbag page from Hobs was frigging hilarious. It's all good folks:

 

https://www.bengals.com/news/hobson-s-choice-floor-is-open

 

I hear the same question from every fan I talk to. What is the direction of this team as it sits at 0-9? What’s the plan to get me to buy tickets again? Maybe more than just a drive by on this topic would go along way with your fans. Nate W., Dayton, OH

NATE: From what I can see, the plan has been in place since the day after last season and it matched the fans’ hue and cry for a new direction. The organization undertook an extensive coaching search and, in the process, changed everything that impacted the football side of the operation.

The biggest off-season overhaul in Bengals history yielded the largest coaching staff the team has ever had and ushered in a new offensive scheme, a new defensive scheme, and a new strength and conditioning approach, as well as a new culture.

There’s no question the plan is taking time to gain traction. No one thought they’d be 0-9 and it’s frustrating to not just the fans, but everyone involved. Unfortunately the very definition of a plan takes time. If you’ve ever seen a house rehabbed, you know some of the process doesn’t look pretty. The Marvin Lewis Era took three years to get into the postseason. Just look at this regular season. The 49ers’ Kyle Shanahan is being heralded as the NFL Coach of the Year after going 10-22 the previous two seasons.

Re-building the offense and re-setting its direction around the team’s best player (A.J. Green), it seems to me, is at the center of the plan. They made that clear Draft Weekend. Four of the first six picks were on offense and for the second straight year they made an offensive lineman (Alabama left tackle Jonah Williams) their No. 1 pick.

They traded up twice in the fourth round to bolster the offense. They felt the drafting of North Carolina State quarterback Ryan Finley added talent and depth at a spot many fans wanted to see both and the selection of Ohio State guard Michael Jordan seems to give them the left side of the future.

 

Listening to head coach Zac Taylor, it seems to me they want to marry the off-field plan with on-field momentum. According to Taylor, the idea is to build a bridge to the future by playing better now. I buy the momentum thing coming into an offseason. I think that stuff matters. They won the last two in ’17 and started 4-1 in ’18. They lost seven out of the last eight last year and are 0-9 now. The 2015 run of 12-4 was set up by winning five of the last seven in ’14. And if you want to dust it off, that 7-9 season in 2007 came in the wake of losing three straight in ’06. So, yeah, you’ve got to win some games.

(And, look, when Green lines up with John Ross and Tyler Boyd at wide receiver and maybe Williams comes back to take a few snaps at left tackle, it can look very different rather quickly.)

Build a program. Build momentum. And find guys that fit what the coaches are trying to do. It seems pretty clear that if Finley wins a fair share of the last seven games, the Bengals can take a look at a range of positions in the draft. If they end up with a record that nets a top three pick, that probably answers the question.

 

Cutting linebacker Preston Brown is another future move, although looking at his dwindling snaps that was also related to winning games. They want to find out if rookie middle linebacker Germaine Pratt can play. More young guys? Personally I’d love to see massive rookie right tackle Fred Johnson and rookie running back Trayveon Williams get some snaps. Can safety Trayvon Henderson play some linebacker? But that’s just me.

Everyone knows this team believes the draft is always the best way to build a team and free agency isn’t. And it’s going to be hard to sway them on that the year after Antonio Brown blew up and Kwon Alexander suffered his second season-ending injury of his career As always, quarterbacks play a pivotal role, and the next month is as huge as it gets for the plan.

Everyone, including everyone I talk to with the team, is looking for a quick fix. But if it’s a good plan, it’s going to take time. Certainly longer than the rest of this season, but hopefully picking up steam as 2020 rolls into September.

That’s my sense of where they’re headed and how they hope to get there. Sorry for the buffet table of an answer, but you said you didn’t want drive-thru.

 
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What the hell did he answer? I suppose the read-between-the-lines analysis, is that Taylor and (most) assistants stay and look for that "rebound momentum" to catch next season. 

 

But paint the picture anyway he wants: Ryan Finley is not starting material now, and won't be next season either.  

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10 minutes ago, Le Tigre said:

What the hell did he answer? I suppose the read-between-the-lines analysis, is that Taylor and (most) assistants stay and look for that "rebound momentum" to catch next season. 

 

But paint the picture anyway he wants: Ryan Finley is not starting material now, and won't be next season either.  

“But if you surround him with a bunch of talent he can be a good game manager who can get you to the playoffs”~ Every sports radio show about Andy Dalton in 2012

 

Hobson thinks Ross, Boyd, Green and Williams might be on the field together this season.   LOL. 

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51 minutes ago, SF2 said:

“But if you surround him with a bunch of talent he can be a good game manager who can get you to the playoffs”~ Every sports radio show about Andy Dalton in 2012

 

Hobson thinks Ross, Boyd, Green and Williams might be on the field together this season.   LOL. 

 

Years ago I actually enjoyed some of his writing, but at this point he's just Tickle Me Geoff:  Mike Brown pulls his string and blather comes out.  I don't blame the guy for being burnt out but it would definitely be nice if he moved on.

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Sorry, I stopped reading at:

 

Quote

in the process, changed everything that impacted the football side of the operation.

 

 

 

 

I mean.. 3 VP's and they're all related.  Who are we kidding?

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4 hours ago, T-Dub said:

Sorry, I stopped reading at:

 

 

 

 

 

I mean.. 3 VP's and they're all related.  Who are we kidding?

That was the funniest part. I actually sent an email to old Hobnob telling him he has zero journalistic credibility and clearly no pride to keep spewing out this nonsense. 

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15 hours ago, Le Tigre said:

What the hell did he answer? I suppose the read-between-the-lines analysis, is that Taylor and (most) assistants stay and look for that "rebound momentum" to catch next season. 

 

But paint the picture anyway he wants: Ryan Finley is not starting material now, and won't be next season either.  

The thing with rebuilding the coaching staff is getting people in here who will work with and be compatible with Zac.  Mark Duffner and Jack Del Rio are out there but would they fit?  Could Duffner return as The Linebacker Whisperer?  But I can't see Del Rio in this organization even as a head coach, unfortunately.

 

The Big Question:  Do we call the Finley Fiasco a success and bring back Andy who stands a better chance of getting a consolation win or two before the end of the season, showcase his talents for the off season trade market if he doesn't get killed?

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On November 19, 2019 at 6:31 AM, High School Harry said:

The thing with rebuilding the coaching staff is getting people in here who will work with and be compatible with Zac.  Mark Duffner and Jack Del Rio are out there but would they fit?  Could Duffner return as The Linebacker Whisperer?  But I can't see Del Rio in this organization even as a head coach, unfortunately.

 

The Big Question:  Do we call the Finley Fiasco a success and bring back Andy who stands a better chance of getting a consolation win or two before the end of the season, showcase his talents for the off season trade market if he doesn't get killed?

Any part of a continuation of Zac Taylor, nets no upticks in coordinator/staff quality. If he's around, there could be a jettisoning of Unsweetened Lou and, perhaps, Bully Boy. However--even with a virtual clean sweep out--adding any true talent at those positions, will be simply more untested nobodies and at best, a worn out veteran. 

 

The Chicken or the Egg, as to the Big Question: Taylor will never put AD back under his own accord. If "persuaded", any small win surge would paint the picture fully that the HC was clueless, and a prime candidate for the dustbin. Taylor would better play his hand at letting Finley flail around the rest of the way, and bet the house that MB will stay true to his patience history. He doesn't care whether AD shows anything or whether he is cut or traded...he is fully in the Bunker Mentality and trying to save his ass.

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