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T-Dub

Andre Smith cut again

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36 minutes ago, sparky151 said:

I'd bet MB has something bulletproof in place. 

 

No doubt, he didn't get that Harvard law degree for fun

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1 hour ago, sparky151 said:

I believe the various Brown family members have acquired all but 1 share of the team which is held by Dutch Knowlton's lawyer.  Most likely the shares are held in trust for the benefit of the Brown family. That would let it avoid estate taxes when MB dies. You may remember that the IRS challenged Paul Brown's estate planning so I'd bet MB has something bulletproof in place. 

Have to assume it is a grantor trust so as soon as Mike Brown dies the assets are paid to the beneficiaries and estate taxes will need to be paid.  Trusts are usually created to control assets after one dies instead of them going thru probate. Still have to pay taxes. 

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1 hour ago, SF2 said:

Have to assume it is a grantor trust so as soon as Mike Brown dies the assets are paid to the beneficiaries and estate taxes will need to be paid.  Trusts are usually created to control assets after one dies instead of them going thru probate. Still have to pay taxes. 

 

Estate taxes are due on estates. Trusts and beneficial interests aren't part of an estate. If MB is simply trustee (the person with the legal authority to make decisions for the trust), his death won't trigger much in the way of taxes, maybe none at all. The various family members have to pay income taxes on the money that is distributed from the trust each year but the trust itself could live forever. 

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2 hours ago, sparky151 said:

 

Estate taxes are due on estates. Trusts and beneficial interests aren't part of an estate. If MB is simply trustee (the person with the legal authority to make decisions for the trust), his death won't trigger much in the way of taxes, maybe none at all. The various family members have to pay income taxes on the money that is distributed from the trust each year but the trust itself could live forever. 

You are correct. 
 

In the NFL’s case they only allow the use of a family “irrevocable” trusts and the team “owner” must still own at least 5% outside of the trust. Once the team shares are in the irrevocable trust the owner can’t change it very easily. Tom Benson found that out.  
 

Once Mike passes away only his 5% stake outside of the trust will be part of his estate if he was still the owner.  Rich people staying rich. 

 

The issue is once Mike passes away, the trustees will then be making decisions on behalf of the team.  I am assuming this includes Katie. Not sure who else. Troy? Did Pete or Robin Brown have kids?   

 

 

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12 hours ago, SF2 said:

 

The issue is once Mike passes away, the trustees will then be making decisions on behalf of the team.  I am assuming this includes Katie. Not sure who else. Troy? Did Pete or Robin Brown have kids?   

 

 

 

There are definitely other Browns listed working for the team, and I'd bet plenty of other family with a different last name employed in some capacity.  It's the whole purpose of the franchise, after all.  Where all of these hangers-on fall on the line between inheriting ownership or maybe getting discount nachos on gameday, IDK.

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14 hours ago, SF2 said:

You are correct. 
 

In the NFL’s case they only allow the use of a family “irrevocable” trusts and the team “owner” must still own at least 5% outside of the trust. Once the team shares are in the irrevocable trust the owner can’t change it very easily. Tom Benson found that out.  
 

Once Mike passes away only his 5% stake outside of the trust will be part of his estate if he was still the owner.  Rich people staying rich. 

 

The issue is once Mike passes away, the trustees will then be making decisions on behalf of the team.  I am assuming this includes Katie. Not sure who else. Troy? Did Pete or Robin Brown have kids?   

 

 

 

Benson left the Saints to his wife rather than his daughter. The daughter challenged the will but lost pretty quickly.  Bud Adams left his 3 kids equal shares of the Titans and that's been a mess. Pat Bowlen put his team in a trust due to his dementia. Several of the kids are arguing over control but he used outside trustees who are aligned with the league and have a favorite.

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1 hour ago, T-Dub said:

 

There are definitely other Browns listed working for the team, and I'd bet plenty of other family with a different last name employed in some capacity.  It's the whole purpose of the franchise, after all.  Where all of these hangers-on fall on the line between inheriting ownership or maybe getting discount nachos on gameday, IDK.

No discount nachos.  The food services are franchised out for mega big bucks going back into Scrooge McBrown's gold coin filled swimming pool in the basement of stately Brown Manor in Indigenous American Hill.  There may be a cut of the beer and food sales, too, but it is yet another semi hidden source of income.  So when people bitch about beer prices or selling an empty cup for drinking fountain water (or out of the toilet for Pittsburgh fans) for the same price as a cup soda in hot weather, it ain't Mikey.  Directly.

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35 minutes ago, sparky151 said:

 

Benson left the Saints to his wife rather than his daughter. The daughter challenged the will but lost pretty quickly.  Bud Adams left his 3 kids equal shares of the Titans and that's been a mess. Pat Bowlen put his team in a trust due to his dementia. Several of the kids are arguing over control but he used outside trustees who are aligned with the league and have a favorite.

Benson sued the trustees to change the daughter's ownership (different mother than current wife) of Saints shares to zero.   She and Benson's current wife did not get along and he got pissed at her.  That is why Troy washed the Lumina when told.

 

 The trustees (outside and aligned with league)  refused knowing it would never stand up in court and the NFL would take shit.  Benson ended up having to give the daughter something similar in value at the time to make the switch (and that had to be something valuable) but it wasn't disclosed  (they settled).  "Irrevocable" is great as long as you don't wan't to change anything later. 

 

 

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3 hours ago, High School Harry said:

No discount nachos.  The food services are franchised out for mega big bucks going back into Scrooge McBrown's gold coin filled swimming pool in the basement of stately Brown Manor in Indigenous American Hill.  There may be a cut of the beer and food sales, too, but it is yet another semi hidden source of income.  So when people bitch about beer prices or selling an empty cup for drinking fountain water (or out of the toilet for Pittsburgh fans) for the same price as a cup soda in hot weather, it ain't Mikey.  Directly.

 

Sure, Aramark or whoever.  Assume that's the case for any pro stadium, to include the exclusive fancypants club restaurants.  Aoili instead of ranch type of dining plus the signature local-inspired garbage plate that is probably microwaved.  Free popcorn & soda.

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4 hours ago, SF2 said:

Benson sued the trustees to change the daughter's ownership (different mother than current wife) of Saints shares to zero.   She and Benson's current wife did not get along and he got pissed at her.  That is why Troy washed the Lumina when told.

 

 The trustees (outside and aligned with league)  refused knowing it would never stand up in court and the NFL would take shit.  Benson ended up having to give the daughter something similar in value at the time to make the switch (and that had to be something valuable) but it wasn't disclosed  (they settled).  "Irrevocable" is great as long as you don't wan't to change anything later. 

 

 

Sounds like fun. I eagerly await the St. Louis suit coming to fruition against the remnants of the Rosenbloom/Frontiere crime family. 

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25 minutes ago, I_C_Deadpeople said:

The Browns have enough lawyers in the family to set this up right, however, one never knows when dealing with values this large

Control is  the issue is once the grantor/patriarch passes.  Usually one member wants most of their share out of the trust and the fun begins or one wants to sell a trust asset like controlling interest in a professional sports team. 

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I am not sure if the Brown Family Trust distributes out any money yet.  I am sure Mike, Katie, Troy and Lil Paul receive hefty salaries as employees of the Cincinnati Bengals.  I am sure those are paid as salary expenses like any other employee so any profit is after expenses.  I think Mike testified many years ago his was $1 million per year.  I am sure he and the family are well compensated and likely received hefty raises over the years.

 

Pete Brown was not only VP of Players but was involved in the early days of Nautilus exercise equipment.  I do not know if he was with Nautilus or just had major distributor territory. Of course the Bengals were one of early NFL adoptees of Nautilus equipment.  IIRC Pete might have also been involved in the beginning of Hammer Strength.  I do not think Pete had children.  I read in one of the journals that Kate and Lil Paul inherited Pete's Indian Hills home after his passing and at closing Lil Paul bought Kate's half from her.  The article did not say if the home had air conditioning.

 

Robin Brown, Mike's younger brother suffered a football injury in college and was out of the sport.  He met a lady from Arkansas, and moved to her hometown of Conway.  He became the Bengals head scout until his passing but lived in Arkansas.  He owned business's including a Tubing Company and a radio station and with Pete was also involved in Nautilus.  He passed in 1978 at the age of 46 but did have a few children.  I would be very surprised if his family was not included someway in the family trust. 

'

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I knew about Pete and Robin starting Hammer Strength due to the professional limitations of the Nautilus equipment. Not sure if the family still owns it but it is top end equipment for serious strength training.  
 

The family sure keeps a low profile. 

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35 minutes ago, westside bengal said:

 am sure Mike, Katie, Troy and Lil Paul receive hefty salaries as employees of the Cincinnati Bengals.  I am sure those are paid as salary expenses like any other employee so any profit is after expenses.  I think Mike testified many years ago his was $1 million per year.  I am sure he and the family are well compensated and likely received hefty raises over the years.

 

I've read it adds up to around $3M between them in salary.  That's the immediate family, not all the Cousin Gregs.

 

 

 

miles_cousin_greg_getty_hbo_ringer.0.jpg

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On 11/30/2019 at 11:34 PM, Catfish Bob said:

I'm pretty sure he was the last player out of that draft's top 10 that was still playing besides Stafford. 

He honestly wasn't that bad of a pick. He finally grew up after a couple years. Especially when you compare him to oghbuighi. 

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1 hour ago, turningpoint said:

He honestly wasn't that bad of a pick. He finally grew up after a couple years. Especially when you compare him to oghbuighi. 

Maybe not that bad but he was sure underwhelming for the #6 pick in the draft.

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19 hours ago, SF2 said:

Control is  the issue is once the grantor/patriarch passes.  Usually one member wants most of their share out of the trust and the fun begins or one wants to sell a trust asset like controlling interest in a professional sports team. 

 

That's the whole point of a trust. It separates the legal and beneficial interests. The legal interest is control, the right to make decisions for the trust. The beneficial interest is the right to benefit from the assets of the trust as provided by the trustee. The trust documents will have rules for appointing trustees but it's likely not simply a majority vote of the beneficiaries. 

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