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Bad Drafts


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I'm sure everyone knows this, but our drafts have been terrible since 2014.

 

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Of the six draft classes, up to this point we've drafted a total of eight average to above average NFL players (Dennard, WJIII, Boyd, Billings, Fej, Mixon, Bates, Hubbard).  Within those eight, we have one building block in Mixon who plays the most disposable position.  For a team that doesn't significantly participate in free agency, I'm stating the obvious here, we really need to do better in the draft and to start Duke Tobin needs to be replaced.

 

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For those keeping track, the rookie class now looks like this:

  • 11: Jonah Williams — only just cleared to resume practice after summer injury
  • 52: Drew Sample — IR
  • 72: Germaine Pratt — bigger role as season has continued
  • 104: Ryan Finley — benched after three games
  • 125: Renell Wren — IR
  • 136: Michael Jordan — Benched, then starting again
  • 182: Trayveon Williams — reserve
  • 210: Deshaun Davis — cut
  • 211: Rodney Anderson — IR
  • 223: Jordan Brown — cut

************  

You can't build a team with crap like this.

Six of the Ten on IR or coming off PUP or cut

One more, Finley, will never see the field again as a Bengal barring injury to the Little Red Rented Row Boat (Not Much Better than No Boat)

Pratt getting OJT and Michael Jordan should have stuck with basketball and gym shoes.

Zac can't build a team if he doesn't have the materials.

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49 minutes ago, Jason said:

We just need to trade all our draft picks in "5" years.  2005 was painful too, for different reasons.

Is there a such things as drafting bad for an entire decade?  We could really go from 2014-2024 with terrible drafts.  We're over half of the way there.  We have to get lucky at some point, right?  Six down, four to go.

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We have all discussed this ad nauseam.  If you only 'draft and develop' you need a large and competent scouting staff AND good coaches - essentially the Stealers or Ravens models.  We have had a few good drafts now and then and a few good coaches now and then. And we can't compensate for weak drafts or development because we don't utilize free agency. Doomed to fail. 

 

With no FA's of value, we need to hit on 6-8 good picks and UFAs every year just to hold the roster at the same place. That is why this team hates trading picks and loves the comp picks. Mikey loves quantity of picks over quality. He has always boasting about how many picks we have on our team  - meaningless stat when you are a losing team. 

 

I always refer to the Winnipeg Jets in the NHL - very small market team, draft and develop BUT they have the largest and best if not close to the best scouting staff in the league. And they have built a consistent winner. 

 

If 'one draft' like 2015 killed us then we were doomed regardless because there is no alternate plans or strategy. 

 

As it stand now, I have little confidence this team has the scouting abilities to pull off even 1 great draft let alone the 2 or 3 it will need. 

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1 hour ago, I_C_Deadpeople said:

We have had a few good drafts now and then and a few good coaches now and then.

 

IDK how much is development from the coaches, it's not like we keep cutting guys that go on to the Pro Bowl elsewhere.  Most of them knock around with a team or two and end up back here.  I think some of them aren't being used properly here but it's a really weak roster overall.

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2 minutes ago, T-Dub said:

 

IDK how much is development from the coaches, it's not like we keep cutting guys that go on to the Pro Bowl elsewhere.  Most of them knock around with a team or two and end up back here.  I think some of them aren't being used properly here but it's a really weak roster overall.

Development to me means getting them on the filed as soon as possible or stop wasting time on them and cut them if they are not going to make the grade. Part of the 'not being used properly' is not having a definitive identity and picking players that specifically fit that identity. It just seems all ad hoc in nature. Marquise Flowers is a good example - does nothing here even under the LB 'guru" Merv yet starts in a SB for the Pats. 

 

We often draft players that could be very good role guys but because of the shit roster we expect them to be starters. 

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25 minutes ago, I_C_Deadpeople said:

Development to me means getting them on the filed as soon as possible or stop wasting time on them and cut them if they are not going to make the grade. Part of the 'not being used properly' is not having a definitive identity and picking players that specifically fit that identity. It just seems all ad hoc in nature. Marquise Flowers is a good example - does nothing here even under the LB 'guru" Merv yet starts in a SB for the Pats. 

 

We often draft players that could be very good role guys but because of the shit roster we expect them to be starters. 

Part of the issue with getting the players on the field was that ML had a bias against starting rookies unless they absolutely had to. (E.g. Dalton and Green) The other issue is that it’s hard to get draft picks on the field if they are drafted while injured (see Ogbuehi) or get injured in training camp and don’t see the field most or all of their rookie season (see Ross, Jackson, Williams).

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1 hour ago, Shebengal said:

Part of the issue with getting the players on the field was that ML had a bias against starting rookies unless they absolutely had to. (E.g. Dalton and Green) The other issue is that it’s hard to get draft picks on the field if they are drafted while injured (see Ogbuehi) or get injured in training camp and don’t see the field most or all of their rookie season (see Ross, Jackson, Williams).

Indeed, it all plays into the futility of the 'model'

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LOL, we are talking about a team that is paying a guy $15mil this year who has been on the roster for 14 games and hasn’t played a down. Same team that didn’t play their best active offensive lineman for a few games cause he was mean to a coach. 

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Good article:

 

https://www.cincyjungle.com/analysis/2019/12/13/21002182/examining-the-current-bengals-culture-and-needed-future-direction

 

A little while back when Lewis’ seemingly-everlasting job security was questioned, Bengals owner Mike Brown noted the Stealers’ preference on continuity with head coaches. Since 1992, Pittsburgh has employed just two head coaches—Bill Cowher and Mike Tomlin.

It has paid off in the form of 18 playoff appearances from 1992-2018, 17 double-digit win seasons, four Super Bowl appearances and two World Championships. What’s even more impressive is just the three seasons with a losing record over the past 28 years.

Crazy.

However, what seems to be lost on Mr. Brown and Bengals’ ownership is the embedded culture within Steel City and the way they build their team. Quarterbacks and “the meat” of the roster (AKA offensive and defensive lines, pass-rushers) take precedence over flashy skill positions, while robust scouting and operations departments make it a flagship NFL franchise.

This is another family-run organization, folks.

After yet another sweep at the hands of the Stealers this year, it capped a 10-game losing streak by the Bengals to their division foe. A .646 winning percentage against Cincinnati in the head-to-head history shows just how far away these two teams are, in terms of operations, much less competitiveness.

This year, Pittsburgh was written off as a team that wouldn’t make much noise this year. It heightened with the season-ending injury to Ben Roethlisberger.

They were also laughed at for giving up a first-round pick in a trade for Minkah Fitzpatrick, as pundits wondered why a team seemingly out of the playoff race would give up such a big commodity.

Yet, here they are, on their third quarterback, sitting at 8-5 and in the thick of the Wild Card race. Oh, and Fitzpatrick co-leads the NFL with five interceptions.

Given the 18 playoff appearances, one would think that a team would largely build their team in a way to go through a team that largely presides over the division. And, given that two of Cincinnati’s past seven postseason appearances featured a clash with Pittsburgh, it’s also a formula to get them through the postseason.

Looking at the coaching continuity is only part of the equation to resemble the Stealers’ success. Accumulating more internal assistance and doling out the proper resources to build a winner resembling Pittsburgh is what’s needed.

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That 2015 draft set them back 5 years minimum.

They missed on every player in that draft except Uzomah.

And he isn't a starter.

With so much film and data on every player available, how does this happen?

Someone mentioned that they do most of the scouting at the senior bowl, instead of actually looking at game film.

The 2014 and 2018 draft are tied for 2nd worse

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It happens because they do not have enough scouts to properly analyze the prospects. There is a reason the better teams have 2 to 3 times the scouts we do, they don’t do it to waste money. Again, Mikey on this matter is either an idiot to not see this or he does not care and wants to save the expense. There is no in between. 
 

go back and look at the Pats drafts for the last decade and they missed a lot as well, but they make up for it in so many other ways. 

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With the technology today, do you need to have tons of scouts? I’m sure they have video of every player from every game minutes after the games are completed. I would think the value of scouts now is talking to college coaches and others that interact with the players (as well as player interviews if that’s allowed). 

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24 minutes ago, WRAPradio said:

With the technology today, do you need to have tons of scouts? I’m sure they have video of every player from every game minutes after the games are completed. I would think the value of scouts now is talking to college coaches and others that interact with the players (as well as player interviews if that’s allowed). 

A good scout finds out what a player is really like, not his media created image.  It’s why the Patriots scouting report destroyed Jonny Manziel while the Browns were slobbering over him.  Great scouts get the real picture. 

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Who wore it worst?
 
1999
Round Pick # Overall Name Position College
1 3 3 Akili Smith Quarterback Oregon
2 2 33 Charles Fisher Cornerback West Virginia
3 4 65 Cory Hall Strong safety Fresno State
4 3 98 Craig Yeast Wide receiver Kentucky
5 2 135 Nick Luchey Running back Miami (FL)
6 4 173 Kelly Gregg Defensive tackle Oklahoma
7 3 209 Tony Coats Guard Washington
7 39 245 Scott Covington Quarterback Miami (FL)
7 43 249 Donald Broomfield Defensive tackle Clemson


2015

Round Pick # Overall Name Position College
1 21 21 Cedric Ogbuehi Offensive tackle Texas A&M
2 21 53 Jake Fisher Offensive tackle Oregon
3 21 85 Tyler Kroft Tight end Rutgers
3 35 99 Paul Dawson Linebacker TCU
4 21 120 Josh Shaw Cornerback USC
4 36 135 Marcus Hardison Defensive tackle Arizona State
5 21 157 C. J. Uzomah Tight end Auburn
6 21 197 Derron Smith Safety Fresno State
7 21 238 Mario Alford Wide receiver West Virginia

 

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3 hours ago, BengalFanInTO said:
Who wore it worst?
 
1999
Round Pick # Overall Name Position College
1 3 3 Akili Smith Quarterback Oregon
2 2 33 Charles Fisher Cornerback West Virginia
3 4 65 Cory Hall Strong safety Fresno State
4 3 98 Craig Yeast Wide receiver Kentucky
5 2 135 Nick Luchey Running back Miami (FL)
6 4 173 Kelly Gregg Defensive tackle Oklahoma
7 3 209 Tony Coats Guard Washington
7 39 245 Scott Covington Quarterback Miami (FL)
7 43 249 Donald Broomfield Defensive tackle Clemson


2015

Round Pick # Overall Name Position College
1 21 21 Cedric Ogbuehi Offensive tackle Texas A&M
2 21 53 Jake Fisher Offensive tackle Oregon
3 21 85 Tyler Kroft Tight end Rutgers
3 35 99 Paul Dawson Linebacker TCU
4 21 120 Josh Shaw Cornerback USC
4 36 135 Marcus Hardison Defensive tackle Arizona State
5 21 157 C. J. Uzomah Tight end Auburn
6 21 197 Derron Smith Safety Fresno State
7 21 238 Mario Alford Wide receiver West Virginia

 

I gotta say 2015 for the simple fact is that most of those players came from pretty strong football programs.

Funny thing is, the word was out early on both Ogbuehi and Fisher that they would both would not pan out well.

Dawson had anger issues and couldn't learn the playbook.

And we still drafted them.

Sometimes film doesn't tell the whole story.

 

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3 minutes ago, SmoothD said:

I gotta say 2015 for the simple fact is that most of those players came from pretty strong football programs.

Funny thing is, the word was out early on both Ogbuehi and Fisher that they would both would not pan out well.

Dawson had anger issues and couldn't learn the playbook.

And we still drafted them.

Sometimes film doesn't tell the whole story.

 

Yep, that is why you need real Scouts to do the necessary digging to get past the agent created image of their client.   There are not many Les Miles type coaches in college football. 

 

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5 minutes ago, SF2 said:

Yep, that is why you need real Scouts to do the necessary digging to get past the agent created image of their client.   There are not many Les Miles type coaches in college football. 

 

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Agree 100%

My daughter had a boyfriend who was being scouted by numerous NFL teams (Packers, Rams, Raiders and Giants).

Some of those guys came to my wife and I asking questions about how was he, how did he treat my daughter, what are his habits and such.

He is currently has a successful career playing in the CFL. 

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