|OneHeartBeat| Posted December 30, 2019 Report Share Posted December 30, 2019 5 hours ago, HavePityPlease said: Ok, most of this is irrational. - Not to beat a dead horse, but "many of the greatest head coaches in history blah blah" - it's oft repeated, but it's true: one bad season does not a career make. - Going to Finley was the right move because it was obvious the Bengals were going to have a top 5 if not THE top pick. They actually traded up for Finley and thus thought he had a chance to make it as a starter. Taylor had to know if Finley was what he thought he was, so it was exactly the right move for the future. It wasn't like Finley was some late-round flyer pick that they forced in there, he was a guy Taylor thought could be the future of the team. And don't forget the team had *no wins*. If there was ever a season to "try shit", it was this one. As for evaluating him... I think it was pretty obvious after 3 games that Finley wasn't what they thought he was. It doesn't mean he can't become a serviceable backup, but he ain't no starter. - Yeah the Drew Sample thing was bad and it shows they were "picking for the scheme" as opposed to picking the BPA. Lesson learned, don't do it again (which they already showed they can do by tossing the scheme entirely mid-season). - The play calling was predictable but again got better after they changed schemes. This is the biggest thing Taylor has to improve, and IMO is the biggest argument in favour of those who are pessimistic about him. The good part is it takes experience to improve stuff like that, and he got it. Now, he has to show he learned from it. - The team did not regress every week, let's get real. Joe Mixon went from nightmare season to 1100 yards based almost entirely on the last 8 games. The defense kept teams under 20 points a bunch of times (especially if you subtract points given up by the offense). Nope, the team got better, this is a false argument. - Players quit *all* *the* *time*. You are a Bengal fan, right? How many times have players quit on the Bengals? Yeah, exactly. Hell look at the Browns, their players continue to quit and even out each other in the media over it. It all comes down to the culture of the team, and that is 100% on Taylor. More of the same next year? Quite possible. But it won't be because they went to Finley this year, it won't be because Drew Sample is on the roster, and it certainly won't be because of any imaginary season-long regression. You mentioned "the plan" and frankly Taylor mentions it over and over - the plan is to build the right culture, everything else flows from that. Especially considering how poorly the season went record-wise, that's at least one thing I think he can say was successful: they've built a good culture base, the attitudes of the players proves that. Now it's time to win or go home. You think my post is irrational and I think yours is full of excuses for a HC who just finished tied with the worst season in franchise history. Great progress. No way this team is 2-14 under marvin. I completely disagree about Finley. If they wanted to see what they had in him, they would've stuck with him the rest of the year. Yeah more of the same next year isn't good enough for me. It shouldn't be for any Bengals fan. So the plan is to change the culture? That's not a very deep analysis. The culture was far worse when ML took over. The browns are a mess because they are full of divas. There's no comparison. Sorry, I want a more experienced HC making the #1 pick. Not someone learning on the job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HavePityPlease Posted December 30, 2019 Report Share Posted December 30, 2019 53 minutes ago, OneHeartBeat said: You think my post is irrational and I think yours is full of excuses for a HC who just finished tied with the worst season in franchise history. Great progress. No way this team is 2-14 under marvin. I completely disagree about Finley. If they wanted to see what they had in him, they would've stuck with him the rest of the year. Yeah more of the same next year isn't good enough for me. It shouldn't be for any Bengals fan. So the plan is to change the culture? That's not a very deep analysis. The culture was far worse when ML took over. The browns are a mess because they are full of divas. There's no comparison. Sorry, I want a more experienced HC making the #1 pick. Not someone learning on the job. It's not excuses, it's just reality. Put an inexperienced coach into a situation where he's not starting the process until February with a worse OL and LB corps than the previous year, what'd you expect? Seriously, what did you think he was going to do? What record do you think Marvin would have had? Do you know what Marvin's record was the second half of last season? (hint: worse than Zac's second half). Is 6-10 that much better than 2-14 for you? For me anything worse than .500 is the same (except perhaps going 0-fer) and I just look for individual performances and some indication the team is improving. Under Marvin it quite obviously got worse and worse as the season went along. With Zac, thankfully, things got progressively better after week 8. Both the offense and defense are ranked higher than last year, despite the record (and despite the horrendous "middle part" of the season). And it's guaranteed not to be more of the same next year, regardless of personnel, as Zac himself has already said so (as of today, regarding the offense). Yes, change the culture. What analysis do you need? You want me to outline Zac's detailed plan of what culture he's implementing? Sorry, I can't read his mind, all I can do is observe how the players act on and off the field. Considering how bad the season went my analysis is: fantastic job. The players are excited to play, the best players want to come back and specifically say they love what Zac is doing, what else do you need? Ok, now I know you're not serious. You honestly think the HC is making the #1 pick, on the Bengals, *especially* a *new* head coach? Get real. Duke and 'Ol Farty Pants are making that pick all day long. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I_C_Deadpeople Posted December 30, 2019 Report Share Posted December 30, 2019 7 hours ago, Le Tigre said: Doc his usual pissy self: I’m going to be unfair to Zac Taylor and I’m sorry about that. If the Bengals rookie coach has done one thing dead-solid perfectly, it has been the way he has dealt with the media. Open, polite, never condescending or quick-tempered. Remarkable, given how the season went. You could suggest so what, Doc? But media create perceptions and perception is reality. Taylor’s good-natured professionalism will extend his honeymoon, if you believe he still has one. I don’t. That’s not his fault, at least not entirely. It’s mine. It’s my cynicism, born of 31 years writing about the Bengals. I read/see/hear a lot of “positive’’ stuff about all the “good guys’’ on this team. Ad nauseam, I listen to how they “stuck together’’ and “didn’t quit’’ and so on. Big deal. https://www.cincinnati.com/story/sports/2019/12/30/paul-daugherty-cant-buy-cincinnati-bengals-2020-happy-talk/2773344001/ I actually agree with Doc's column. End of the day the team was the worst in the league, huge gaps in talent and with a personnel department that has not shown recent ability to fill the gaps. Nice to be hopeful but realistically this team, barring significant change will even struggle to be average. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparky151 Posted December 31, 2019 Report Share Posted December 31, 2019 Yeah, even if the ball bounces our way more next season we could easily be 5-11 or worse than when Taylor got hired. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Le Tigre Posted December 31, 2019 Author Report Share Posted December 31, 2019 One more time: just what the fuck is his "system"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UncleEarl Posted December 31, 2019 Report Share Posted December 31, 2019 Some good points here, but so what? You all know Brown isn't going to fire Taylor. Brown has been nothing but patient with every player and coach no matter what they do it seems. Brown also just happens to hate to pay players and coaches and not get anything from them. Say what you will, but Taylor will be on the sidelines next September. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|SF2| Posted December 31, 2019 Report Share Posted December 31, 2019 On 12/30/2019 at 6:37 PM, I_C_Deadpeople said: I actually agree with Doc's column. End of the day the team was the worst in the league, huge gaps in talent and with a personnel department that has not shown recent ability to fill the gaps. Nice to be hopeful but realistically this team, barring significant change will even struggle to be average. At least Doc admits he is a cynical old bastard like me. He is right, so fucking what if they stuck together and fought hard. 2-14 is what it is and is not acceptable in a parity driven league. That said I place far more of the blame on Duke Tobin than Zac for 2019. At the end of the day the offensive line and Glenn, who wasn’t wanted in Buffalo was hired by Tobin. Williams was vetted by Tobins’ medical staff. Hart was pure desperation and you can’t possibly think Zac wanted to sit out FA like the team always seems to do. John Jerry? Really? There were 2 or 3 actual players available at the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I_C_Deadpeople Posted December 31, 2019 Report Share Posted December 31, 2019 Interesting article on how some coaches perceive certain organizations, in this case the Giants and why they do not want to coach there: https://www.si.com/nfl/2019/12/31/nfl-black-monday-coaching-rumors-mock-draft I mentioned this on Twitter: the Giants have received feedback that some coaches would be lukewarm on the job based on what’s perceived as an old-school structure gone stale. The thinking there is that too many people have been in their jobs for 10, 20 or even 30 years, and that the organization needs a bit of a reset. My understanding is that Baylor coach Matt Rhule is among those who feel that way. If he’s going to land back where he was assistant offensive line coach in 2012, there’ll have to be some changes in how things are set up. Albert Breer ✔@AlbertBreer · Dec 30, 2019 The Giants have gotten feedback in recent weeks that some coaches would be hesitant to go there without structural changes. Lots of people have been in their jobs for decades there. Some think the franchise needs a reset. We'll see what happens. Albert Breer ✔@AlbertBreer To his credit, and contrary to popular belief, Dave Gettleman has made a serious effort to modernize the Giants scouting department over the last 2 years. So the main thing here isn't him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spicoli Posted December 31, 2019 Report Share Posted December 31, 2019 12 hours ago, SF2 said: 2-14 is what it is and is not acceptable in a parity driven league Well it is here...so now what? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I_C_Deadpeople Posted December 31, 2019 Report Share Posted December 31, 2019 43 minutes ago, spicoli said: Well it is here...so now what? Mikey has big changes in mind to right the ship. I hear Lippincott has a nephew out of work and Mikey will hire him as the new assistant to the video editor. If fans can't get into that change, well there is no pleasing them at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmy D Posted December 31, 2019 Report Share Posted December 31, 2019 In myself i abhor cynicality - unless it's a monday. I wait it out with rose tinted hope. Naive or not, it Makes for a brighter day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I_C_Deadpeople Posted December 31, 2019 Report Share Posted December 31, 2019 26 minutes ago, Jimmy D said: In myself i abhor cynicality. I wait it out with rose tinted hope. Naive or not, it Makes for a brighter day. I was not being cynical, I fully expect such a dramamtic move this year in the front office. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichaelWeston Posted December 31, 2019 Report Share Posted December 31, 2019 21 hours ago, I_C_Deadpeople said: Coaches come before the system - if you are going to get 'better' coaches (coordinators) you will get different systems. Bill Callahan and James Bettcher are 2 guys that we could add and they would both make huge impacts but not be coordinators. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparky151 Posted December 31, 2019 Report Share Posted December 31, 2019 I fully expect MB to keep the coach who is worse then Dave Shula. He'll then act surprised if someone questions it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|High School Harry| Posted December 31, 2019 Report Share Posted December 31, 2019 2 hours ago, Jimmy D said: In myself i abhor cynicality - unless it's a monday. I wait it out with rose tinted hope. Naive or not, it Makes for a brighter day. What? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Go Tory Go! Posted December 31, 2019 Report Share Posted December 31, 2019 6 hours ago, I_C_Deadpeople said: Mikey has big changes in mind to right the ship. I hear Lippincott has a nephew out of work and Mikey will hire him as the new assistant to the video editor. If fans can't get into that change, well there is no pleasing them at all. Oh please. Not at all realistic. That is not how this organization is run. He'll come on as the VP of video analysis (but be the only person in his department). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T-Dub Posted January 1, 2020 Report Share Posted January 1, 2020 30 minutes ago, Go Tory Go! said: Oh please. Not at all realistic. That is not how this organization is run. He'll come on as the VP of video analysis (but be the only person in his department). They'll give him some intern who is also a cousin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|SF2| Posted January 1, 2020 Report Share Posted January 1, 2020 2 hours ago, T-Dub said: They'll give him some intern who is also a HOT cousin Fixt it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tibor75 Posted January 1, 2020 Report Share Posted January 1, 2020 On 12/30/2019 at 4:58 PM, OneHeartBeat said: No way this team is 2-14 under marvin. So what? Marvin already proved (time and time again) that he cannot win in the playoffs. He had his time and he failed. Get his ass out of here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|kennethmw| Posted January 2, 2020 Report Share Posted January 2, 2020 This is Hilarious!! 😂😂😂😂 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-GoBengals- Posted January 2, 2020 Report Share Posted January 2, 2020 On 12/28/2019 at 6:25 AM, spicoli said: biggest thing they could possibly do for him to advance his development would be to get him two veteran coaches to be his coordinators. agreed here. really wish del rio would have come on board last year. i dont have any issues with HC yet...... yet... i have a concern with the switch back to andy. there arent too many "good" reasons for that. obviously finley getting a few games with a broken team isnt much of a trial, if youre seeing what he has, then see what he has.. reasons i can see for the switch back: 1. put him back on show for trade bait later? 2. lost locker room a few guys bitching wanting to try to "win" and finley was the obvious throw in the towel? 3. he actually thought both decisions were giving the best chance to win (lol) and the first one doesnt really add up with doing it the day of the deadline.. no ones pulling the dalton trigger on 3 hrs thought process. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|SF2| Posted January 2, 2020 Report Share Posted January 2, 2020 21 hours ago, GoBengals said: agreed here. really wish del rio would have come on board last year. i dont have any issues with HC yet...... yet... i have a concern with the switch back to andy. there arent too many "good" reasons for that. obviously finley getting a few games with a broken team isnt much of a trial, if youre seeing what he has, then see what he has.. reasons i can see for the switch back: 1. put him back on show for trade bait later? 2. lost locker room a few guys bitching wanting to try to "win" and finley was the obvious throw in the towel? 3. he actually thought both decisions were giving the best chance to win (lol) and the first one doesnt really add up with doing it the day of the deadline.. no ones pulling the dalton trigger on 3 hrs thought process. I think Taylor simply didn’t want his named etched onto the 0-Fer wall of shame. It’s an elite club nobody wants to be a member of. Kind of like employee of the month at a Death Camp. He put Dalton in to win 1 game plus as it was obvious Finley was probably not going to pull it off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T-Dub Posted January 3, 2020 Report Share Posted January 3, 2020 He put Dalton back in for the same reason he benched him to begin with; deflection of blame. It's not that mysterious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thezerawkid Posted January 3, 2020 Report Share Posted January 3, 2020 26 minutes ago, T-Dub said: He put Dalton back in for the same reason he benched him to begin with; deflection of blame. It's not that mysterious. Why in the hell do you keep peddling this narrative? What proof do you have? Say what you want about Zac Taylor’s coaching ability, but everything I have heard about, and from, him seem to indicate a very high character guy. The fact that he still had the locker room in week 17 at 1-14 seems to say a lot about the guy, too. If the players thought for a minute ZT was sticking a knife in Dalton’s back to save his own ass, or “deflect blame,” which doesn’t track either, by the way, they were already in shitsville, what was there to gain?- if the players thought the same thing you’re insinuating, they would have come apart at the seams. I just don’t understand why you believe this. And I don’t get why, either? What’s it helping? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T-Dub Posted January 3, 2020 Report Share Posted January 3, 2020 12 minutes ago, thezerawkid said: Why in the hell do you keep peddling this narrative? What proof do you have? Say what you want about Zac Taylor’s coaching ability, but everything I have heard about, and from, him seem to indicate a very high character guy. Yeah, I believed that for roughly the week it took to hire Jim Turner. It's like calling yourself a feminist and hiring Bill Cosby. I think the "seeing what they have in Finley" line is fucking ridiculous. They knew what they had in Finley back in August when they were printing Andy's photo on their tickets. Then they run the Great Unknown out there & surprise, he still sucks. The guy couldn't throw a clean ball 10 yards and they somehow didn't know this without putting him in a live game? The only qualities I've seen demonstrated by Taylor are an uncanny knack for avoiding blame, and then somehow convincing the fans that changing the QB is going to fix everything. When it comes to self-preservation & salesmanship he's extremely talented. As for coaching an NFL team, well.. 2-14, tying a franchise low. I look forward to seeing whose fault it is when we're struggling to win 5-6 games next season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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