Offseason plans/thoughts

[MichaelWeston]

First of all the roster is not nearly as bad as we keep hearing. The offense is a QB and stability and a year in the system away from being good. We lost 8 games by a score or less with a new coach who was in over his head but is otherwise notably intelligent. On offense we will get back Williams, Green and Burrow if all goes well. Our roster at RB-WR-TE-DL and DB is good enough but LB and OL were so bad it brought everyone down.

I expected to add Bill Callahan but have not heard a peep. We have the AHC position open and I assumed it was for him all season. Wouldn't be surprised if Giants DC James Bettcher gets added too. The guys who remained when Marvin left were Simmons-Van Pelt-Bicknell-Combs-Livingston-Jones and 1 other that I don't remember. I could see some turnover there but all would be welcome back IMO. I would simply try to add Callahan and Bettcher. Plucking some veterans from the Skins coaching staff if we get Callahan would be nice. https://www.redskins.com/team/coaches-roster/

Draft talk will come but it seems obvious that we go QB-OL. LB isn't as deep and there are a few names out ther that improve us right away (Kwiatkoski, Van Noy, Littleton-who I think costs too much).

As for Free Agency elsewhere I would love to see us try to add Scherff at RG especially if we get Callahan and then kick the tires on Whitworth at LG.

I want to see us re-sign Green despite his age and Dennard. Also interested in Vigil at a decent amount and Billings. Having Wren and Tupou on the roster makes Billings a little expendable. Then I extend Mixon. He is a heart and soul of a team type guy and will hold out. You don't want to go into your trainging camp with your new QB with your best WR and best RB holding out. I get that the conventional wisdom says you don't pay a RB or a 32 year old WR coming off an injury. I want to win sooner than later and believe this offense can be very good next year. Get them done and frontload the deals so you can get out of them if you must.

I believe that the OL could catch up quickly. There is a group of guys that we know we want in that group of 8-10. Williams-Hopkins-Miller-Hart-Johnson-Jordan. Then a group of offseason question marks. Jerry-Price-Glenn-Prince-Dugas-Redmond.

A line of

LT Williams 24 Johnson 22
LG FA Jordan 23
C Hopkins 23 Price 23
RG Miller 22 Jerry 20
RT Hart 22 Rd 2

That's not 5 quality starters, but most teams don't have 5 quality starters. Redskins have Penn, Flowers, Bergstrom and Scherff as Free Agents. If we get Callahan we might get some of these guys. I think that guys like Jordan and Price could really use a veteran like Whitworth on the roster. As for Jerry he might be the perfect end of the bench inactive or off the roster depth kind of guy. He played I think 4 positions this year. Wasn't great, but he can do it.

As for the rest of the offense. I am a proponent of signing one veteran at every roster spot. What we do wrong that other teams do right is we only sign players that we think will play. Instead of signing 2 veteran G's and then having insurance if someone gets injured in training camp, we sign one and then when he gets injured we act like there was nothing we could have possibly done. This might be guys who are on the verge of being out of the league. That's fine by me. But sign someone who knows how to come to work and has veteran insights.

Sign a Veteran QB to backup Burrow (Matt Moore if he would leave KC makes the most sense as he has starter experience and was coached by Taylor in Miami).

Sign a Veteran RB just for camp-The way our roster is now we should be basically back filling that spot with UDFAs for this offseason so this might be the one spot I am ok with.

Sign a Veteran WR and TE. I would love to get Eifert back but Dehner made it sound like that was over. I don't see it that way, but if he gets a high price tag I am not paying it.

And along the OL add high price FA's and the low end roster guys.

As for the D I thiknk that could speed up quickly as well and it played much better since the bye. We are talented on the DL and DBs and LBs improved. I like Littleton from the Rams but think Kwiatkoski might be similar at a Bengals type price.

[snarkster]

I'd be happy if the can improve the OL depth of talent to the point where no more than one of Hart, Jerry & Miller are on the roster.  As it stands, I would list Hopkins, Williams, Jordan, Price, Johnson, a 2nd Rd tackle & one of the trio above as likely to be on the roster.  Glenn is a lock if still here (but not convinced he will be).  Schreff would be a perfect target for the 9th slot and I'd round out the group with a younger, versatile guy if they keep 10.

 

OC Try Hopkins / Billy Price

LG Cordie Glenn / Michael Jordan

RG Brandon Schreff /  (???)

LT Jonah Williams / Fred Johnson

RT Bobby Hart / (2nd Rd. Pick)

 

Ideally, I try to parlay Green, Dalton & Fitzpatrick into draft picks.

 

Would not re-up AJ (I'd save the $$$ for Mixon).  Don't trust his health and not sure his heart will be that in it.  I definitely Tag him, but if I can't get a 1 & a 3, I'll simply take a 1st.  I don't let him walk (yet).  If he's still here (after missing much of camp), I start him across from Boyd, the hope to deal him t the deadline to a contender desperate for WR's..

[T-Dub]

5 hours ago, MichaelWeston said:

First of all the roster is not nearly as bad as we keep hearing. 

A line of

LT Williams 24 Johnson 22
LG FA Jordan 23
C Hopkins 23 Price 23
RG Miller 22 Jerry 20
RT Hart 22 Rd 2

That's not 5 quality starters, but most teams don't have 5 quality starters

 

 

Yeah, it is.  Scoreboard says 2-14.    That's not 5 average starters, let alone quality.  Williams is an unknown, Hart has no business in the NFL and we're one injury away from starting bums at any other position.   Also our CB's have been getting torched all year and can't tackle.  I don't know how you watch this team flail its way to 2 wins and think the roster is anywhere close to competitive.  They just played 16 games that prove they aren't.

 

 

So I guess that's what I want to see this offseason;  act like a team that just tied the worst season in franchise history.  I want to see them show some sense of urgency in fixing it instead of their usual "think happy thoughts" bullshit where they act like things will be different next year because our sorry linebacker group spent a day working with Habitat for Humanity.   

 

They aren't going to add the 7 wins they need to be relevant again with this roster + Joe Burrow Owl.  

[esjbh2]

6 hours ago, MichaelWeston said:

First of all the roster is not nearly as bad as we keep hearing. The offense is a QB and stability and a year in the system away from being good. We lost 8 games by a score or less with a new coach who was in over his head but is otherwise notably intelligent. On offense we will get back Williams, Green and Burrow if all goes well. Our roster at RB-WR-TE-DL and DB is good enough but LB and OL were so bad it brought everyone down.
...

Paging Mr. LeTigre...paging Mr. LeTigre...

[Le Tigre]

WHAT FUCKING "SYSTEM"??

[-GoBengals-]

4 hours ago, T-Dub said:

 

 

Yeah, it is.  Scoreboard says 2-14.    That's not 5 average starters, let alone quality.  Williams is an unknown, Hart has no business in the NFL and we're one injury away from starting bums at any other position.   Also our CB's have been getting torched all year and can't tackle.  I don't know how you watch this team flail its way to 2 wins and think the roster is anywhere close to competitive.  They just played 16 games that prove they aren't.

 

 

So I guess that's what I want to see this offseason;  act like a team that just tied the worst season in franchise history.  I want to see them show some sense of urgency in fixing it instead of their usual "think happy thoughts" bullshit where they act like things will be different next year because our sorry linebacker group spent a day working with Habitat for Humanity.   

 

They aren't going to add the 7 wins they need to be relevant again with this roster + Joe Burrow Owl.  

this post is the equivalent of a 15 yr old white girl crying because she got a white iphone instead of a gold one for christmas. 

every starting corner was injured, and dennard actually ranked tops at his position. 

 

Quote

Of the slot corners that played 50%+ of their snaps inside, Darqueze Dennard ranks FIRST in catches allowed (14), yards (134), passer rating (68.4), yards per snap (0.57), snaps per target (9.0) and snaps per reception (16.8). That's every category PFF keeps data on. Every one.

 

so for some folks here to be assuming that health will help the team win games, and you slamming your bedroom do and screaming that you hate your parents, only one of those looks silly. 

adding 2-3 healthy talented corners back into the mix, adding aj green back on the field (we have said we will tag him, he said he is ok being tagged but wants a longer deal).

adding a top pick LT, growing pains for not, has a good chance of being an upgrade, the young linemen playing together has a chance of being an upgrade, add a LB and another linemen for those 2nd and 3rd round picks, 

so adding 5 healthy additions we have seen be high caliber players, and 3 new additions high from the draft.. thats 8 improvements in talent at 22 possible starting positions.

 

and as previously mentioned, we lost 10 of those games by a single score. 

 

how many scores variance do those 8 players add on average?

 

if its EITHER a touchdown saved or a touchdown gained... only half the time, thats a 7-9 record. 

 

7-9 is a HUGE gain over 2-14 with a rookie qb.

 

we could be walking into 2021 season with 10+ new starters improved, and possibly the most talented QB from an NFL system who ranks tops in shallow, mid and deep accruacy and regularly makes 3rd read on plays, who has come out of college in over a decade.

 

i put my season ticket deposit down last week....

 

 

 

 

 

[T-Dub]

5 hours ago, GoBengals said:

this post is the equivalent of a 15 yr old white girl crying because she got a white iphone instead of a gold one for christmas. 

 

 

 

That's pretty rich coming from someone that's spent the last decade whining incessantly about Dalton.      

 

Where is AJ "Way Better Than Dalton" McCarron these days anyway?

[Catfish Bob]

54 minutes ago, T-Dub said:

 

 

 

Where is AJ "Way Better Than Dalton" McCarron these days anyway?

 

[Catfish Bob]

 

[Le Tigre]

And...he lost.

 

Sincerely,

Still Wondering What The Definition Of Present Bengals HC's "System" Might Be

[BengalFanInTO]

Here's what I'd do...

 

2019 Roster Decisions

Cut Dre Kirkpatrick-Eat the $2.8 Million in Dead Cap Space and avoid paying him $22 Million over the next two seasons.

Let AJ Green walk

Extend Joe Mixon

Try to trade Andy Dalton. Cut him if you can't (which is likely) 

Resign Darqueze Dennard to a long term deal. He's the most important Bengals free agent this offseason.

Also resign Eifert and Billings.

Retain Cordy Glenn

 

Free Agency

In unlikely Bengals fashion, pay the price for a tackle or guard (Scherff, Thuney, Conklin or Castonzo) and a LB (Littleton or Van Noy). My preferences would be Thuney and Littleton.

 

Draft

Draft Burrow in the first and the best WR on the board in the second. Take a kicker in the late rounds. BPA in all other rounds. 

 

[I_C_Deadpeople]

47 minutes ago, BengalFanInTO said:

Take a kicker in the late rounds. BPA in all other rounds. 

 

Does BPA now stand for Best Putz Available?

[Le Tigre]

Lol @ save money to spend money. It never gets used, so it's worthless. 

 

It's like that Twilight Zone episode where the guy steals a crapload of gold, kills all his cohorts, and puts himself in suspended animation to a future time...only to wake up and find out gold is no longer used for currency. 

[T-Dub]

7 hours ago, Le Tigre said:

Lol @ save money to spend money. It never gets used, so it's worthless. 

 

It's like that Twilight Zone episode where the guy steals a crapload of gold, kills all his cohorts, and puts himself in suspended animation to a future time...only to wake up and find out gold is no longer used for currency. 

 

They spend money, though.  There are a number of vets on their 2nd contract here making elite-level money.   Hard to say many of them earned it this season, others maybe were never worth it to begin with.  Then they backfill with bottom-tier free agents (Preston Brown, wtf happened there?)  I've never seen an NFL team, even a really shitty one, cut or bench players like that.  We had a couple straight up quit?  It was a circus fire.  The few consistently good players weren't put in a position to succeed when they did get on the field.  

 

Maybe the roster isn't as bad as it looked but that doesn't reflect well on the coaching staff.  At first I thought they were trying to give everyone a clean slate but.. Those coaches were all hired by people I wouldn't trust with a sharp pair of scissors.  Does the entire staff now get a 2nd year because Senior Bowl and it's the only way we can force them to scout? 

 

 

tl;dr either the roster sucks or the coaches don't know what they're doing, one or the other.

 

🌮 🌯

 

 

[Le Tigre]

I should clarify: yes, they do spend money and, yes, they do spend it "uniquely". 

 

My point was: year after year, they do NOT even target quality free agent possibilities--despite the abundance of cash. Somebody else always needs it, or so we are told.

 

This is why I always shake my head when I see: cut this guy/that guy and save the loot to sign XYZ in FA. It never happens. 

[HavePityPlease]

3 hours ago, Le Tigre said:

I should clarify: yes, they do spend money and, yes, they do spend it "uniquely". 

 

My point was: year after year, they do NOT even target quality free agent possibilities--despite the abundance of cash. Somebody else always needs it, or so we are told.

 

This is why I always shake my head when I see: cut this guy/that guy and save the loot to sign XYZ in FA. It never happens. 

Agree on this.  The Bengals tend to spend a lot on their own re-ups (justified or not), bring in one or two scrub-to-no-name FA's, and then send out Hobknob to tell us how we're in a cap crisis.  To be fair to BFITO, he was simply stating what *he* would do.  I don't think any old-time fan like most of us here needs to outline what MB is *likely* to do.  We can all fantasize a little bit, right?

 

To add some perspective, it can get much worse with regard to fan-base fantasies.  I am also a Maple Leafs fan and let me tell you, no fan base can hold a candle to the... ahem... "creative" ideas presented by the colourful folks in our group.    Some variation of "here's what you do: make Don Cherry the GM... make Tie Domi the coach... trade <insert bum> for <insert perennial all-star> and then get <insert collection of goon players>.  Cup, baby!".  For every CrackpipeBob and OSU blood-oath homer around here you have at least 20-30 of the above around Leaf land.

[Cricket]

10 hours ago, T-Dub said:

 

...Those coaches were all hired by people I wouldn't trust with a sharp pair of scissors.  

 

 

I would suggest that we DO give each of them a sharp pair of scissors...

 

and tell them to run with them...

 

in the middle of I-75...

 

during rush hour.

 

 

[crazycat]

I have rooms to paint and storage shelves to build. That is probably more than the crack staff will do.

[thezerawkid]

On 1/2/2020 at 6:51 AM, Le Tigre said:

And...he lost.

 

Sincerely,

Still Wondering What The Definition Of Present Bengals HC's "System" Might Be

Serious question: what part of “system”

do you want defined? Offensive system? Defensive system? Overall mental system?

 

What void of system that you failed to see are you referring to?

[Le Tigre]

I would suppose it would be "offensive system"--as he has never done anything on the defensive side of the ball. And "mental system" would not apply, since he had never managed a locker room or sideline before.  

 

So many have plead for time to get acclimated to his "system"--and the void has been, no one has articulated what that (offensive) "system" might be.     

[PathWay]

Long-time reader, but seldom post. Have cheered for the Bengals since 1972. 

 

My four-point plan for the off-season:

1. Hire Wade Phillips as DC.  Zac and he know each other.  Make it happen.
2. Try to convince Joe Brady to follow Burrow to Cinci-- role TBD.  If only for a season or two.
3. Leverage the position of having the top pick in the second round.  Teams that miss on guys in round 1 may be desperate to move up to the top of R2. Use the overnight trading period to trade down for extra picks.  OR... take LSU WR Justin Jefferson with the 33rd pick.  Brady & Jefferson would make Burrow feel at home right away.
4. Focus the rest of the draft and free agency on restocking the OL, DL and LBs.

[HavePityPlease]

23 hours ago, Le Tigre said:

I would suppose it would be "offensive system"--as he has never done anything on the defensive side of the ball. And "mental system" would not apply, since he had never managed a locker room or sideline before.  

 

So many have plead for time to get acclimated to his "system"--and the void has been, no one has articulated what that (offensive) "system" might be.     

At least at a high level, the offensive system was *meant* to be pretty much exactly what the Rams run... lots of 3-receiver sets.  As outlined in an article late in the season, it leaked out that they abandoned this scheme and made a mish-mash of various ideas from Van Pelt, Turner and others.  This was much more effective (mainly because they actually used Mixon the right way).  So from my perspective whatever scheme comes about for next season won't be what Taylor tried to implement at the start of this season, but probably a different scheme that takes parts of everything they learned from this season.  For his part Taylor already said what they do next year won't be what they tried this year.  The good part is they all apparently learned that they didn't have the personnel to implement the Rams system so hopefully whatever emerges fits the players.

 

TL;DR: There is no scheme right now, Taylor and staff are creating a new one for next season.  We just have to hope it looks more like the last 8 games than the first 8.

[Le Tigre]

As good a response as can be had. Thanks.  

[I_C_Deadpeople]

1 hour ago, HavePityPlease said:

  The good part is they all apparently learned that they didn't have the personnel to implement the Rams system so hopefully whatever emerges fits the players.

 

 

They should have been able to figure this out from 2018 film or at the latest by TC. Total rookie HC error waiting until they were like 0-11 before going..hmmm, maybe we should change this...

[T-Dub]

10 hours ago, I_C_Deadpeople said:

They should have been able to figure this out from 2018 film or at the latest by TC. Total rookie HC error waiting until they were like 0-11 before going..hmmm, maybe we should change this...

 

Well you know at first they thought it was all because of Andy Dalton, but when they replaced him the tackling didn't improve at all so they had to get creative.