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Building the Oline.....


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On 4/11/2020 at 8:32 PM, stryker57 said:

whos left to throw the money at? 

 

Guys will get released. Seattle just released 2 starters today. Britt (C), is expensive and coming off an injury. Fluker (G) is cheaper. I think they are trying to save $$ to sign Clowney.

 

There will be post-draft roster reverberations around the league. OK, we drafted X, so we can release Y to save money, so we can try to pay/sign/extend Z.

 

Plus, Jason Peters is still out there.

 

Agree that our OL coach is not the best, and last year was troubling on that score (which is one reason I want Peters), but you cannot take everything he says at face value. He cannot rip his own players in the press.

 

 

 

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Duke Manyweather has become the offensive line guru in collage and NFL.

When he talks fundamentals all listen and

learn.

His seminar/camp encompasses everything to improve their game regardless of stature..

A couple quotes from him include...

Bechton has potential to be an allpro sooner than later..

17% bodyfat on 364lbs!..he goes on about him..

Jonah Williams is a LT period..hes mastered that side in all phases ..dont make him a guard or RT..

Wirfs will play guard..has similarities to Quentin Nelson..

Our newly drafted lineman was a steal in that round..

He sees him as a guard but could be an emergency OT..

When Duke talks...People listen..

 

 

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1 hour ago, claptonrocks said:

Duke Manyweather has become the offensive line guru in collage and NFL.

When he talks fundamentals all listen and

learn.

His seminar/camp encompasses everything to improve their game regardless of stature..

A couple quotes from him include...

Bechton has potential to be an allpro sooner than later..

17% bodyfat on 364lbs!..he goes on about him..

Jonah Williams is a LT period..hes mastered that side in all phases ..dont make him a guard or RT..

Wirfs will play guard..has similarities to Quentin Nelson..

Our newly drafted lineman was a steal in that round..

He sees him as a guard but could be an emergency OT..

When Duke talks...People listen..

 

 

And here we all thought the Ketchup Whisperer was the go to guy...lol

 

We do have to remember that Williams was the best LT in last years draft, he is no project

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Only a couple reasons to not blow-up the whole thing.  One player who is coming off an injury and has yet to play.  One offensive advisor still on the staff.  That's it.

 

IMHO it's not a coaching issue persay but mainly a can't pick a healthy and smart player to save their lives.  With the rare exception that once in a blue moon, every now and then a squirrel will find their nuts moment....  

 

Other than that, cue the Miley Cyrus song...

wrecking-ball-crane-heavy-machinery-vector-26199265~2.jpg

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7 hours ago, I_C_Deadpeople said:

We do have to remember that Williams was the best LT in last years draft, he is no project

Especially with an entire season plus off-season now. He should be way ahead of the curve at this point. 

HUGE upgrade over Andre Smith on the blindside!

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20 hours ago, spicoli said:

Especially with an entire season plus off-season now. He should be way ahead of the curve at this point. 

HUGE upgrade over Andre Smith on the blindside!

T-dub would be an upgrade over Andre Smith.

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Well, I look at OL like this:

 

1) We have two guys I really feel good about: Jonah Williams (LT) and Hopkins (C/G). Hoping the Williams is a stud and Hopkins was pretty solid and can play C and G. 

 

2) We have four more guys who I hope can be decent this year. Three will start: Su'a-Filo (G), Jordan (G), Hart (T), and Johnson (T/G). Locks to make the squad, but really have not proven long-term places yet. 

 

These six are going to be on the roster this year, even if we get a superior starter somehow (we all can dream). After that, Hopkins & Hart would have a significant Dead Cap cost (over $1 mil) but we'd still save $$ by releasing them (they make $5-$6 mil). The other guys can be released with little or no Dead cap cost.

 

This year, we will see who is a keeper or not, and at what level (stud, plus starter, starter, plus reserve, dud, etc).

 

3) Price (C/G).

 

Disappointing as he has been, sometimes lineman take a while. I think he's the only C on the roster past Hopkins, and we lose money vs the cap if we get rid of him. He stays this year and we hope the light goes on.

 

That is 7.

 

4) Adeniji (G/T).

 

He is gonna stick somewhere. Roster or Practice squad. 

 

5) Redmond (G).

 

Leading candidate amongst the rest. But Price can play G too. And if Johnson wins the RT job, Hart is probably a better G. Makes $2.1 mil and we can cut him without a cap hit.

 

If he is not the clear #3 G and Adeniji or one of the FAs or Dugas looks comparable, I think he gets released and we pocket the cap savings.

 

6) Dugas, Prince, Cordasco, Knipfel.

 

You have to think that there are 10-11 spots counting the Practice Squad. Counting Redmond is 9 guys. At least 1 of these guys looks to stick, maybe 2-3 if Redmond goes.

------------

 

I am still hoping for a significant waiver/FA/trade piece.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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40 minutes ago, IsaacCurtis:TheReal#85 said:

Well, I look at OL like this:

 

1) We have two guys I really feel good about: Jonah Williams (LT) and Hopkins (C/G). Hoping the Williams is a stud and Hopkins was pretty solid and can play C and G. 

 

2) We have four more guys who I hope can be decent this year. Three will start: Su'a-Filo (G), Jordan (G), Hart (T), and Johnson (T/G). Locks to make the squad, but really have not proven long-term places yet. 

 

These six are going to be on the roster this year, even if we get a superior starter somehow (we all can dream). After that, Hopkins & Hart would have a significant Dead Cap cost (over $1 mil) but we'd still save $$ by releasing them (they make $5-$6 mil). The other guys can be released with little or no Dead cap cost.

 

This year, we will see who is a keeper or not, and at what level (stud, plus starter, starter, plus reserve, dud, etc).

 

3) Price (C/G).

 

Disappointing as he has been, sometimes lineman take a while. I think he's the only C on the roster past Hopkins, and we lose money vs the cap if we get rid of him. He stays this year and we hope the light goes on.

 

That is 7.

 

4) Adeniji (G/T).

 

He is gonna stick somewhere. Roster or Practice squad. 

 

5) Redmond (G).

 

Leading candidate amongst the rest. But Price can play G too. And if Johnson wins the RT job, Hart is probably a better G. Makes $2.1 mil and we can cut him without a cap hit.

 

If he is not the clear #3 G and Adeniji or one of the FAs or Dugas looks comparable, I think he gets released and we pocket the cap savings.

 

6) Dugas, Prince, Cordasco, Knipfel.

 

You have to think that there are 10-11 spots counting the Practice Squad. Counting Redmond is 9 guys. At least 1 of these guys looks to stick, maybe 2-3 if Redmond goes.

------------

 

I am still hoping for a significant waiver/FA/trade piece.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

7) An early injury or two will mix everything up.

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Williams..Jordan..Hopkins..XSF..Hart.

Thats the starters ..

Johnson..Redmond..Price..Adeniji..Knipfil.

Thats the reservers...for now...

Fred Johnson I like...Adeniji is interesting..

The Oline would be ranked in the bottom 5 right now with these guys ..

Can only hope for improved play as a unit...

 

 

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The Athletic had a piece where they think Johnson will be the starter with Hart as his backup. Say the team liked Fred's audition at the end of last year.

 

I'm optimistic that Jonah will become a good LT but doubt he's there yet. He's never played a snap in a live game. Hopkins was above the Bengal average last year but that's not saying much. PFF had him 27th among NFL centers. Jordan was terrible in his first bout at LG, then better later in the year. XSF has never played RG in the NFL and has mostly been a career backup. Making him the starting RG is ambitious, to say the least. Hart's struggles are longlasting and not getting better, in the sense of getting close to average.

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1 hour ago, sparky151 said:

The Athletic had a piece where they think Johnson will be the starter with Hart as his backup. Say the team liked Fred's audition at the end of last year.

 

I'm optimistic that Jonah will become a good LT but doubt he's there yet. He's never played a snap in a live game. Hopkins was above the Bengal average last year but that's not saying much. PFF had him 27th among NFL centers. Jordan was terrible in his first bout at LG, then better later in the year. XSF has never played RG in the NFL and has mostly been a career backup. Making him the starting RG is ambitious, to say the least. Hart's struggles are longlasting and not getting better, in the sense of getting close to average.

Im ok with center to left side..

The right side could be a looming nightmare...

If you ranked our right side of Filo and Hart youd get no number!.

Johnson and Adeniji better step up...soon..

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20 hours ago, claptonrocks said:

Williams..Jordan..Hopkins..XSF..Hart.

Thats the starters ..

Johnson..Redmond..Price..Adeniji..Knipfil.

Thats the reservers...for now...

Fred Johnson I like...Adeniji is interesting..

The Oline would be ranked in the bottom 5 right now with these guys ..

Can only hope for improved play as a unit...

 

 

just curious, and i dont even disagree, but last year bengals were 9th most sacks, and barely made the top 20 in QB hits. i attribute a few sacks to panic andy, hits is pretty glaring usually, even if getting the ball out quick, if the line is shit youre still getting hit. now i dont have a rushing grade of any sort, just those two isolated stats, but id guess jus on those we would be like a 18-20th ranked o-line. 

 

so as mentioned here Jonah and growth would have is in the 16-18th ranked worst case?

 

maybe im having very wishful thinking, but i sort of expect a middle of the pack o-line. 

 

With Adeniji, he is clearly a guard, but he played LT/RT and a guess a little guard in college, i wonder how easy of a plug in at RG he would be, i assume any shortening or oddity in the offseason workouts ther are may hamper this.

 

but if we can add two guys (jonah and Adeniji) and have two guys healthy or improved with age, thats 4/5 guys taking a step in the right direction.

 

i dont know what to think really overall.. i would have liked a solid RT pick in the draft, but i cant pick anyone id have rather not drafted to get one.

 

insane value at LB and the fact that next years draft is supposed to be OL heaven. they likely made the right move.

 

i agree a FA RT rental for 1-2 years would be ideal..

 

i think post-andy the top 51 cap has us with 25 mil availble.  if we extend mixon and green, that changes of course.

16 hours ago, claptonrocks said:

Im ok with center to left side..

The right side could be a looming nightmare...

If you ranked our right side of Filo and Hart youd get no number!.

Johnson and Adeniji better step up...soon..

i know nothing about johnson. but love what i see on Adeniji, and i LOVE moving tackle to guard ever since we did that with whitworth long ago. 

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31 minutes ago, GoBengals said:

just curious, and i dont even disagree, but last year bengals were 9th most sacks, and barely made the top 20 in QB hits. i attribute a few sacks to panic andy, hits is pretty glaring usually, even if getting the ball out quick, if the line is shit youre still getting hit. now i dont have a rushing grade of any sort, just those two isolated stats, but id guess jus on those we would be like a 18-20th ranked o-line. 

 

so as mentioned here Jonah and growth would have is in the 16-18th ranked worst case?

 

maybe im having very wishful thinking, but i sort of expect a middle of the pack o-line. 

 

With Adeniji, he is clearly a guard, but he played LT/RT and a guess a little guard in college, i wonder how easy of a plug in at RG he would be, i assume any shortening or oddity in the offseason workouts ther are may hamper this.

 

but if we can add two guys (jonah and Adeniji) and have two guys healthy or improved with age, thats 4/5 guys taking a step in the right direction.

 

i dont know what to think really overall.. i would have liked a solid RT pick in the draft, but i cant pick anyone id have rather not drafted to get one.

 

insane value at LB and the fact that next years draft is supposed to be OL heaven. they likely made the right move.

 

i agree a FA RT rental for 1-2 years would be ideal..

 

i think post-andy the top 51 cap has us with 25 mil availble.  if we extend mixon and green, that changes of course.

i know nothing about johnson. but love what i see on Adeniji, and i LOVE moving tackle to guard ever since we did that with whitworth long ago. 

I remembet a quote by Duke Manyweather saying Adeniji is a steal in that round and would likely mive inside..Said he may be a bit slow at pass protecting but would have above average speed as a guard..

Small sample of Fred Johnson but he delivered when starting..

Hart at 2.9mil and XSF at 3.3mil would be backups ..

Yes they need to bolster the Oline and Jasin Peters at RT would do that even at his age..(same as Whit)..

I dont think theyre done yet...

 

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1 hour ago, hornet_45638 said:

U think Bengals should sign recently released tackle Garrett bolles of Denver broncos.

Alot of holding penalties but a 75.8 grade, much better than we have now.

Little to. grabby for Zach's taste maybe..

Ive never heard of an olineman getting 30 penalties in 2 yrs..

He must be a beast at something but boy would those penalties Kill drives..

 

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Was looking up offensive line penalties players and teams... 

Laremy Tunsil had 17 penalties to lead all olinemen

Big Whit was 2nd at 14..slowin down and grabbin more now..still ladmire him)..

Hey Hornet..Bolles was tied at 3rd with a few others at 13...

Many linemen had 10...

Bobby Hart led the team with...7

No holding penalties..

Next waaay down the list was Price and Jordan at 4..

Turner's Oline was 6th best at avoiding penalties..

Now he he can teach other aspects to their game.

BTW..Turner wont have to teach Jonah Willuams anything....Jonah may know more!!

 

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53 minutes ago, claptonrocks said:

Was looking up offensive line penalties players and teams... 

Laremy Tunsil had 17 penalties to lead all olinemen

Big Whit was 2nd at 14..slowin down and grabbin more now..still ladmire him)..

Hey Hornet..Bolles was tied at 3rd with a few others at 13...

Many linemen had 10...

Bobby Hart led the team with...7

No holding penalties..

Next waaay down the list was Price and Jordan at 4..

Turner's Oline was 6th best at avoiding penalties..

Now he he can teach other aspects to their game.

BTW..Turner wont have to teach Jonah Willuams anything....Jonah may know more!!

 

because the DL was past them before they could even grab hold. 

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On ‎4‎/‎30‎/‎2020 at 11:02 AM, GoBengals said:

maybe im having very wishful thinking, but i sort of expect a middle of the pack o-line. 

I don't believe it to be wishful thinking.  It is a possibility to hit somewhere in the middle of the rankings.  I looked at the stats from 2003 all the way to 2019.  Oddly this team's Offensive line runs in cycles.  I have most of the stats put together but the formatting is slow.

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I think Williams is promising too but some of y'all are giving a whole lot of credit to a guy that has yet to take an NFL snap.  

 

The question remains; if he can't go or just sucks, who plays LT this year? 

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I think Michael Jordan has the best body type and most potential of any of the RG candidates we have. Supposedly they have slotted their FA reserve, XSF, into this position but I find that rather confusing given he has never played there before, nor does he have the requisite body type suited for that position. Michael Jordan carries about 315, with a frame and the base (butt) to even be much heavier. What I would really love is to see them spend money on a legitimate RG, or in absence of that a RT, where we could then move either Johnson or Hart to RG and leave Michael Jordan at the LG position they seem to be grooming him at. These are just some of my random thoughts on this clusterfuck that is our current OL. 

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I think you leave Michael Jordan at LG and don’t look back. I believe he going to lock down that spot for the next 5 years. He started off rough last year and got benched but when he came back you could tell the lightbulb came on for him and he started showing out. They’re in a good spot left to center, IMO.

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