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The Case Against Drafting Burrow - Red Flags

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I get it, Burrow will be the pick, but as we're about to get into the combine, I'm starting to have reservations.  There's are just so many red flags.  One flag by itself isn't a big deal, but when you have three of four it starts to worry me.  Let's look at the flags (that everyone won't agree with).

 

1.  One year of production.  He was in college for five years and had one good year...hell, he only played for two years.  He was behind multiple solid QBs at tOSU, but for a #1 pick you would think when he got on the field he'd do more than just run at tOSU.  Then his first year at LSU, he was an average QB.  So what clicked in year two?  Did he really just get better all of a sudden?  Was it the scheme change?  Can he only play in a specific scheme?  It just brings some questions to mind.

 

2.  He had tons of talent around him.  This has been the argument for a lot of Alabama players that didn't make it; they had so much talent on those teams, the game is just easier.  When they don't have as much of a talent advantage they're not able to adjust (see Trent Richardson, AJM, etc.).  The scary thing is, he had talent like that for all five years of his college career and STILL only had one great (historic) year.

 

3.  Arm strength.  I don't think  you have to have a great arm to be successful in the NFL, see Drew Brees, Joe Montana, etc.  It can help, but it's not necessary.  However this will limit some of the things you can do on the field.  If this is the only red flag, so what?  But if you're an average to above average QB as is, you might want to have a strong arm.  I'm sure it can get better, but I don't think he'll ever have a top-10 arm.

 

4.  Hand Size.  I think this is the most overrated "thing", but let's think about this logically.  The smaller your hands are, the harder it is to grip something with size, like a football.  There's not guarantee that this will be an issue, but it's something else to think about.  If the ball slips out of his hand 3 times a season because of this, that may not be a big deal...but it might be.  Who knows?  Again, if this was the only red flag I'd just look over it without giving it a second thought.   

 

I hope JB comes in and becomes a HOF QB for us.  With all of these red flags it just makes me nervous and I hope the front office is doing their due diligence and are at least fielding calls for that #1 pick.  If you can trade down to 5 (or 4, 3, 2) and still get a QB (Tua, Herbert (?)) and you can still come away with multiple 1st and 2nd rounders over the next two years, it's something that I hope is seriously considered.  Is Tua (QB), Chaisson (Edge), Queen (LB) and Cushenberry (IOL) better than getting just Burrow for a team that has multiple holes to fill?

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4 minutes ago, WRAPradio said:

I get it, Burrow will be the pick, but as we're about to get into the combine, I'm starting to have reservations.  There's are just so many red flags.  One flag by itself isn't a big deal, but when you have three of four it starts to worry me.  Let's look at the flags (that everyone won't agree with).

 

1.  One year of production.  He was in college for five years and had one good year...hell, he only played for two years.  He was behind multiple solid QBs at tOSU, but for a #1 pick you would think when he got on the field he'd do more than just run at tOSU.  Then his first year at LSU, he was an average QB.  So what clicked in year two?  Did he really just get better all of a sudden?  Was it the scheme change?  Can he only play in a specific scheme?  It just brings some questions to mind.

 

2.  He had tons of talent around him.  This has been the argument for a lot of Alabama players that didn't make it; they had so much talent on those teams, the game is just easier.  When they don't have as much of a talent advantage they're not able to adjust (see Trent Richardson, AJM, etc.).  The scary thing is, he had talent like that for all five years of his college career and STILL only had one great (historic) year.

 

3.  Arm strength.  I don't think  you have to have a great arm to be successful in the NFL, see Drew Brees, Joe Montana, etc.  It can help, but it's not necessary.  However this will limit some of the things you can do on the field.  If this is the only red flag, so what?  But if you're an average to above average QB as is, you might want to have a strong arm.  I'm sure it can get better, but I don't think he'll ever have a top-10 arm.

 

4.  Hand Size.  I think this is the most overrated "thing", but let's think about this logically.  The smaller your hands are, the harder it is to grip something with size, like a football.  There's not guarantee that this will be an issue, but it's something else to think about.  If the ball slips out of his hand 3 times a season because of this, that may not be a big deal...but it might be.  Who knows?  Again, if this was the only red flag I'd just look over it without giving it a second thought.   

 

I hope JB comes in and becomes a HOF QB for us.  With all of these red flags it just makes me nervous and I hope the front office is doing their due diligence and are at least fielding calls for that #1 pick.  If you can trade down to 5 (or 4, 3, 2) and still get a QB (Tua, Herbert (?)) and you can still come away with multiple 1st and 2nd rounders over the next two years, it's something that I hope is seriously considered.  Is Tua (QB), Chaisson (Edge), Queen (LB) and Cushenberry (IOL) better than getting just Burrow for a team that has multiple holes to fill?

Those factors are legit..

My take would be..

1. Hes been a winner at all levels of play so far..

He had the greatest season of any top five conferece QBs ever ..

Hes accurate under pressure...allways has been..

2. He and Mahomes could probably wear the same gloves..not worried about that.

Hes cool calculating and a winner..

Ill take my chances on him with the first pick..

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4 minutes ago, claptonrocks said:

Those factors are legit..

My take would be..

1. Hes been a winner at all levels of play so far..

He had the greatest season of any top five conferece QBs ever ..

Hes accurate under pressure...allways has been..

2. He and Mahomes could probably wear the same gloves..not worried about that.

Hes cool calculating and a winner..

Ill take my chances on him with the first pick..

 

Fair points.  On the plus side, he's super accurate and seems to be able to read any defense (the two most important characteristics for a QB, IMO).  He also does great maneuvering inside of the pocket and obviously can get outside of the pocket and make plays running or throwing.

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I think points 1 and 3 are semi legit. Points 2 and 4 are overstated.

 

Burrow is something of a 1 year wonder but the turnaround coincided with a new offense at LSU.  Pro QBs increase their arm strength over the course of their careers. Brees and Brady throw further today than when they entered the league.

 

Burrow had talented team mates, but he elevated them too. Worrying about hand size is silly unless the player already has a history of fumbling. Which Burrow doesn't.

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Just now, sparky151 said:

I think points 1 and 3 are semi legit. Points 2 and 4 are overstated.

 

Burrow is something of a 1 year wonder but the turnaround coincided with a new offense at LSU.  Pro QBs increase their arm strength over the course of their careers. Brees and Brady throw further today than when they entered the league.

 

Burrow had talented team mates, but he elevated them too. Worrying about hand size is silly unless the player already has a history of fumbling. Which Burrow doesn't.

With arm strength I'm not necessarily talking about distance I'm thinking about the types of throws.  Watch Andy throw outs...they routinely get undercut by the CB and it's to the house if it's picked.  With a stronger arm where you can put more stank on it, the CB doesn't have as much time to make a play on the ball.  I don't think you'll be able to finesse the ball into tight windows for an entire career, there will be times where you need to gun it in there vs. NFL LBs, CBs and safeties.  His arm may get stronger, Dalton's did, but that doesn't mean you'll be able to make every throw. 

 

I agree that #2 and #4 are overrated, but add them together and then add #1 and #3 and it makes me pause.

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1. That one year was the best in the history of college football

2. Nobody wins without talent around them

3. See #1

4. See #1

 

HARD PASS! lol

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38 minutes ago, WRAPradio said:

With arm strength I'm not necessarily talking about distance I'm thinking about the types of throws.  Watch Andy throw outs...they routinely get undercut by the CB and it's to the house if it's picked.  With a stronger arm where you can put more stank on it, the CB doesn't have as much time to make a play on the ball.  I don't think you'll be able to finesse the ball into tight windows for an entire career, there will be times where you need to gun it in there vs. NFL LBs, CBs and safeties.  His arm may get stronger, Dalton's did, but that doesn't mean you'll be able to make every throw. 

 

I agree that #2 and #4 are overrated, but add them together and then add #1 and #3 and it makes me pause.

Thing with Dalton was he simply was bad thowing sudeline passes on therun..

Its an art that he never attained..

When was Rottenburger most dangerious?

When he was flushed out if the pocket..

It seperates qb's talents alot..

Im thinking thats a strong point with Burrow..

 

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Since 1998 when all the football gurus couldn't decide if Peyton Manning or Ryan Leaf was going to be the better NFL QB, I think 50% of the gurus don't know shit and the other half are just lucky guessers.

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4 minutes ago, westside bengal said:

Since 1998 when all the football gurus couldn't decide if Peyton Manning or Ryan Leaf was going to be the better NFL QB, I think 50% of the gurus don't know shit and the other half are just lucky guessers.

Possibly but the way todays scouts nitpick its a wonder any QB is worthy if the NFL..

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3 hours ago, WRAPradio said:

With arm strength I'm not necessarily talking about distance I'm thinking about the types of throws.  Watch Andy throw outs...they routinely get undercut by the CB and it's to the house if it's picked.  With a stronger arm where you can put more stank on it, the CB doesn't have as much time to make a play on the ball.  I don't think you'll be able to finesse the ball into tight windows for an entire career, there will be times where you need to gun it in there vs. NFL LBs, CBs and safeties.  His arm may get stronger, Dalton's did, but that doesn't mean you'll be able to make every throw. 

 

I agree that #2 and #4 are overrated, but add them together and then add #1 and #3 and it makes me pause.

Andy's problem wasn't arm strength, it was :

 

No pocket awareness

Inability to make plays on the run

Choker

Lack of football intelligence - he's simply a stupid football player. 

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21 minutes ago, tibor75 said:

Andy's problem wasn't arm strength, it was :

 

No pocket awareness

Inability to make plays on the run

Choker

Lack of football intelligence - he's simply a stupid football player. 

Outside of that...

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33 minutes ago, tibor75 said:

Andy's problem wasn't arm strength, it was :

 

No pocket awareness

Inability to make plays on the run

Choker

Lack of football intelligence - he's simply a stupid football player. 

I think those are Burrow's biggest strengths (and he has many in my opinion).

You can what if anything to death (believe me - I get it) but i really have nothing but great vibes from this kid.

He feels the pocket amazingly well (anti Ryan Findlay), can read defenses well, and improvise with the best of them (hate to say Big Ben....so I won't )

I know it's always a crap shoot to translate college to the pros - heck I voted Chase Young in the first pick poll months ago.

I've never felt more sure about a Bengals pick than Joe Burrow.

Turn in the card.

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4 hours ago, WRAPradio said:

I get it, Burrow will be the pick, but as we're about to get into the combine, I'm starting to have reservations.  There's are just so many red flags.  One flag by itself isn't a big deal, but when you have three of four it starts to worry me.  Let's look at the flags (that everyone won't agree with).

 

1.  One year of production.  He was in college for five years and had one good year...hell, he only played for two years.  He was behind multiple solid QBs at tOSU, but for a #1 pick you would think when he got on the field he'd do more than just run at tOSU.  Then his first year at LSU, he was an average QB.  So what clicked in year two?  Did he really just get better all of a sudden?  Was it the scheme change?  Can he only play in a specific scheme?  It just brings some questions to mind.

 

2.  He had tons of talent around him.  This has been the argument for a lot of Alabama players that didn't make it; they had so much talent on those teams, the game is just easier.  When they don't have as much of a talent advantage they're not able to adjust (see Trent Richardson, AJM, etc.).  The scary thing is, he had talent like that for all five years of his college career and STILL only had one great (historic) year.

 

3.  Arm strength.  I don't think  you have to have a great arm to be successful in the NFL, see Drew Brees, Joe Montana, etc.  It can help, but it's not necessary.  However this will limit some of the things you can do on the field.  If this is the only red flag, so what?  But if you're an average to above average QB as is, you might want to have a strong arm.  I'm sure it can get better, but I don't think he'll ever have a top-10 arm.

 

4.  Hand Size.  I think this is the most overrated "thing", but let's think about this logically.  The smaller your hands are, the harder it is to grip something with size, like a football.  There's not guarantee that this will be an issue, but it's something else to think about.  If the ball slips out of his hand 3 times a season because of this, that may not be a big deal...but it might be.  Who knows?  Again, if this was the only red flag I'd just look over it without giving it a second thought.   

 

I hope JB comes in and becomes a HOF QB for us.  With all of these red flags it just makes me nervous and I hope the front office is doing their due diligence and are at least fielding calls for that #1 pick.  If you can trade down to 5 (or 4, 3, 2) and still get a QB (Tua, Herbert (?)) and you can still come away with multiple 1st and 2nd rounders over the next two years, it's something that I hope is seriously considered.  Is Tua (QB), Chaisson (Edge), Queen (LB) and Cushenberry (IOL) better than getting just Burrow for a team that has multiple holes to fill?

 

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4 hours ago, claptonrocks said:

 

When was Rottenburger most dangerious?

 

 

When he follows you into a public restroom & his cop buddy watches the door

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Can you imagine what would happen if the Bengals stayed at #1 and DIDN'T draft Burrow?

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8 minutes ago, gupps said:

Can you imagine what would happen if the Bengals stayed at #1 and DIDN'T draft Burrow?

For Chase Young or Tua?

Beyond stunning...

 

 

 

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Heres what i see in Burrow as a Bengal.

Hes a hometown boy being from Athens..

He has that IT factor in his deameanor..

Cool calm and calculating both on abd off the field..

In time they ll be more women in the stands than men with his good looks and 

Coolness..

Hes the future here for years to come..

 

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I really believe that, from the OP, #s 1, 2, and 4 are all meaningless. Straight meaningless.

 

#3 is relevant and still generally uninteresting. Arm strength can help, but as long as a player meets a certain threshold (that Burrow seems to meet without difficulty), then it becomes much less important than accuracy, decision-making, reading defenses, timing, and consistency -- all areas where Burrow is all-world.

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I don't hold it against Burrow that he was beaten out by Haskins at OSU.  He was a 1st round pick and set multiple Big Ten records in his one year as a starter for the Buckeyes.  Burrow had an even better season at LSU last year so I would call him a better prospect regardless.  I also don't count his first year at LSU as a negative.  He was a new starter in the SEC West and the offensive scheme was badly outdated.  If nothing else it provides experience and there is a huge difference between one year college starters and multiple year starters.  

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26 minutes ago, Inigo Montoya said:

I don't hold it against Burrow that he was beaten out by Haskins at OSU.  He was a 1st round pick and set multiple Big Ten records in his one year as a starter for the Buckeyes.  Burrow had an even better season at LSU last year so I would call him a better prospect regardless.  I also don't count his first year at LSU as a negative.  He was a new starter in the SEC West and the offensive scheme was badly outdated.  If nothing else it provides experience and there is a huge difference between one year college starters and multiple year starters.  

 

That's an interesting way to look at it, one I hadn't considered. 

 

47 minutes ago, OU_Stripes said:

I really believe that, from the OP, #s 1, 2, and 4 are all meaningless. Straight meaningless.

 

#3 is relevant and still generally uninteresting. Arm strength can help, but as long as a player meets a certain threshold (that Burrow seems to meet without difficulty), then it becomes much less important than accuracy, decision-making, reading defenses, timing, and consistency -- all areas where Burrow is all-world.

Only having one year of production out of five years is irrelevant?  I'd venture to say without looking that most of the successful QBs in the NFL today had more than one good year in college.  Yet, it's difficult to find players who had one good year in college that are anything more than average in the NFL.  Every case is different and that doesn't mean Burrow can't or won't be great.  It's just another variable you put into the equation when weighing if you want to stake the franchise's future on someone. 

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7 hours ago, WRAPradio said:

I get it, Burrow will be the pick, but as we're about to get into the combine, I'm starting to have reservations.  There's are just so many red flags.  One flag by itself isn't a big deal, but when you have three of four it starts to worry me.  Let's look at the flags (that everyone won't agree with).

 

1.  One year of production.  He was in college for five years and had one good year...hell, he only played for two years.  He was behind multiple solid QBs at tOSU, but for a #1 pick you would think when he got on the field he'd do more than just run at tOSU.  Then his first year at LSU, he was an average QB.  So what clicked in year two?  Did he really just get better all of a sudden?  Was it the scheme change?  Can he only play in a specific scheme?  It just brings some questions to mind.

 

2.  He had tons of talent around him.  This has been the argument for a lot of Alabama players that didn't make it; they had so much talent on those teams, the game is just easier.  When they don't have as much of a talent advantage they're not able to adjust (see Trent Richardson, AJM, etc.).  The scary thing is, he had talent like that for all five years of his college career and STILL only had one great (historic) year.

 

3.  Arm strength.  I don't think  you have to have a great arm to be successful in the NFL, see Drew Brees, Joe Montana, etc.  It can help, but it's not necessary.  However this will limit some of the things you can do on the field.  If this is the only red flag, so what?  But if you're an average to above average QB as is, you might want to have a strong arm.  I'm sure it can get better, but I don't think he'll ever have a top-10 arm.

 

4.  Hand Size.  I think this is the most overrated "thing", but let's think about this logically.  The smaller your hands are, the harder it is to grip something with size, like a football.  There's not guarantee that this will be an issue, but it's something else to think about.  If the ball slips out of his hand 3 times a season because of this, that may not be a big deal...but it might be.  Who knows?  Again, if this was the only red flag I'd just look over it without giving it a second thought.   

 

I hope JB comes in and becomes a HOF QB for us.  With all of these red flags it just makes me nervous and I hope the front office is doing their due diligence and are at least fielding calls for that #1 pick.  If you can trade down to 5 (or 4, 3, 2) and still get a QB (Tua, Herbert (?)) and you can still come away with multiple 1st and 2nd rounders over the next two years, it's something that I hope is seriously considered.  Is Tua (QB), Chaisson (Edge), Queen (LB) and Cushenberry (IOL) better than getting just Burrow for a team that has multiple holes to fill?

1. OSU made their choice and JB was wise to move on. His first year with LSU was a situation of the team and him adjusting. They liked max protection and he likes 5 man. Said he took him a while to earn the trust of the staff for them to listen to his suggestions. You can see how good his last 4 games of that year were once he pulled LSU out of 3 yards and a cloud of dust.

 

2. Their oline was not among the best and they only have 1 WR invited to the combine. 

 

3. It's been said Joe is like a golfer. He selects the correct club based on the distance

 

4. Joe recognizes this and has explained how it's not an issue for him and it's because he recognizes it; doesn't dismiss it.

 

The funny thing is I heard them talking about how hard Joe will be to interview, because they can always point to a bad game or 2 and ask a prospect what happened here. The problem with tying to get Joe to explain a bad performance is you have to go back 1.5 years to find a bad game. 

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