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New Orleans = Casualty of Iraq War


Guest BlackJesus

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The rest of the world seems a bit stunned as well.

[url="http://today.reuters.com/news/NewsArticle.aspx?type=topNews&storyID=uri:2005-09-02T141645Z_01_BAU248384_RTRIDST_0_NEWS-WEATHER-KATRINA-REACTION-DC.XML&pageNumber=1&summit="]http://today.reuters.com/news/NewsArticle....umber=1&summit=[/url]


[quote]World stunned as US struggles with Katrina

By Andrew Gray

LONDON (Reuters) - The world has watched amazed as the planet's only superpower struggles with the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina, with some saying the chaos has exposed flaws and deep divisions in American society.

World leaders and ordinary citizens have expressed sympathy with the people of the southern United States whose lives were devastated by the hurricane and the flooding that followed.

But many have also been shocked by the images of disorder beamed around the world -- looters roaming the debris-strewn streets and thousands of people gathered in New Orleans waiting for the authorities to provide food, water and other aid.

"Anarchy in the USA" declared Britain's best-selling newspaper The Sun.

"Apocalypse Now" headlined Germany's Handelsblatt daily.

The pictures of the catastrophe -- which has killed hundreds and possibly thousands -- have evoked memories of crises in the world's poorest nations such as last year's tsunami in Asia, which left more than 230,000 people dead or missing.

But some view the response to those disasters more favorably than the lawless aftermath of Hurricane Katrina.

"I am absolutely disgusted. After the tsunami our people, even the ones who lost everything, wanted to help the others who were suffering," said Sajeewa Chinthaka, 36, as he watched a cricket match in Colombo, Sri Lanka.

"Not a single tourist caught in the tsunami was mugged. Now with all this happening in the U.S. we can easily see where the civilized part of the world's population is."

SINKING INTO ANARCHY

Many newspapers highlighted criticism of local and state authorities and of President Bush. Some compared the sputtering relief effort with the massive amounts of money and resources poured into the war in Iraq.

A modern metropolis sinking in water and into anarchy -- it is a really cruel spectacle for a champion of security like Bush," France's left-leaning Liberation newspaper said.

"(Al Qaeda leader Osama) bin Laden, nice and dry in his hideaway, must be killing himself laughing."

A female employee at a multinational firm in South Korea said it may have been no accident the U.S. was hit.

"Maybe it was punishment for what it did to Iraq, which has a man-made disaster, not a natural disaster," said the woman, who did not want to be named as she has an American manager.

"A lot of the people I work with think this way. We spoke about it just the other day," she said.

Commentators noted the victims of the hurricane were overwhelmingly African Americans, too poor to flee the region as the hurricane loomed unlike some of their white neighbors.

New Orleans ranks fifth in the United States in terms of African American population and 67 percent of the city's residents are black.

"In one of the poorest states in the country, where black people earn half as much as white people, this has taken on a racial dimension," said a report in Britain's Guardian daily.

Luxembourg Foreign Minister Jean Asselborn, in a veiled criticism of U.S. political thought, said the disaster showed the need for a strong state that could help poor people.

"You see in this example that even in the 21st century you need the state, a good functioning state, and I hope that for all these people, these poor people, that the Americans will do their best," he told reporters at a European Union meeting in Newport, Wales.

David Fordham, 33, a hospital anesthetist speaking at a London underground rail station, said he had spent time in America and was not surprised the country had struggled to cope.

"Maybe they just thought they could sit it out and everything would be okay," he said.

"It's unbelievable though -- the TV images -- and your heart goes out to them."

(With reporting by Reuters bureaux around the world)[/quote]
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Guest bengalrick
lets save the people before we bring politics into it... i'm sure that you will be pounding this drum for the next 30 something years, so i was just saying, lets keep politics out until the tragedy is over...

there are two types of people when it comes to disasters.. those that try to lead others in the right direction and those that blame others for mistakes they may or may not have made, while they could be helping and bitching later on...

which side are you falling on bj??

this is a state problem first and the mayor and governor of NO/louisiana are a joke... i don't think that bush handeld this well at all, but that is a conversation for another day... in a week or two when this catastrophe is over...
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Guest BlackJesus
[quote]What`s even more fucking disgusting is using a National
tragedy as yet ANOTHER fucking platform to bash Bush.[/quote]


[color="blue"][i][b]I am bashing the incompetence of our so called Leader who was on vacation while people were dying GOLLY FUCK when do you people think that it is ever appropriate to criticize the Fuhrer...... he knew about the Hurricane 5 days in advance.... and he stayed on the Ranch on Vacation. He knew that the levees were not strengthened because he personally sent that $ to to his War in Iraq. Now a thinking person would put 2 and 2 together... and say oh shit... the place will flood and there are elderly and poor and children who can't evacuate because they have nowehere to go.... lets start evacuating and providing buses, and helicopters in advance... lets mobilize troops in case etc.... HE DID NOTHING

I will bash someone who is a absolute failure in every sense of the word when it comes to leadership ....... This is not about politics this is about competence and the govt has the competence of a Highschool Student council..... WAKE THE FUCK UP [/b][/i][/color]
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Guest bengalrick

[quote name='BlackJesus' date='Sep 2 2005, 10:52 AM'][i]"I keep hearing that it's coming. This is coming. That is coming. My answer to that is B.S. Where is the beef? They're feeding the people a line of bull, and they are spinning and people are dying" [/i]
[b]--- New Orleans Mayor Ray Nagin [/b]
[b]=[/b] Federal Emergency Management Director Michael Brown told CNN that federal officials were unaware of the crowds at the convention center until Thursday and thus did not begin to drop any supplies, despite the fact that city officials had been telling people for days to gather there.
[right][post="140571"][/post][/right][/quote]

this mayor might be the worst mayor in the world... he sent out an s.o.s yesterday... what a joke... great thinking shmuck... way to lead and show confidence and leadership in a hard time... he makes me sick to my stomach... you quoting that fuckhead is a joke also...

is it normal for an average weighted 24 years old, to be able to feel their heart rate rising rapidly :rant: :rant:

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Guest BlackJesus

[quote]this mayor might be the worst mayor in the world... he sent out an s.o.s yesterday... what a joke... great thinking shmuck... way to lead and show confidence and leadership in a hard time...[/quote]

[i][b]spoken like someone who loves to see ra ra Bush press conferences.... that are anecdotal and don't do shit.... should the mayor have said "stay the course in your sewage" and "we will not falter to the forces of nature".... what a joke.... of course he sent out an SOS there are thousands of floating bodies and the National Govt is asleep at the wheel.... what was he supposed to pray for falling food.... :wacko: [/b][/i]

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Guest oldschooler
[quote name='BlackJesus' date='Sep 2 2005, 09:56 AM'][color="blue"][i][b]I am bashing the incompetence of our so called Leader who was on vacation while people were dying  GOLLY FUCK when do you people think that it is ever appropriate to criticize the Fuhrer...... he knew about the Hurricane 5 days in advance.... and he stayed on the Ranch on Vacation.  He knew that the levees were not strengthened because he personally sent that $ to to his War in Iraq.  Now a thinking person would put 2 and 2 together... and say oh shit... the place will flood and there are elderly and poor and children who can't evacuate because they have nowehere to go.... lets start evacuating and providing buses, and helicopters in advance... lets mobilize troops in case etc.... HE DID NOTHING

I will bash someone who is a absolute failure in every sense of the word when it comes to leadership ....... This is not about politics this is about competence and the govt has the competence of a Highschool Student council..... WAKE THE FUCK UP [/b][/i][/color]
[right][post="140574"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote]



I am so tired of you acting like you`re the only motherfucker
that`s AWAKE...gimme a fucking break.


I am not happy with the way things have been handled down there.
But to blame it on the War in Iraq and Bush is asinine.

Bush declared the place a Disaster area BEFORE the Hurricane
even hit. He hasn`t been on "vacation" except for the fact that
he wasn`t in Washington. And the reason shit fell apart down
there had more to do with the fact that in some precincts over 50%
of the police left their post and quit their jobs !

Bush did all he could do. It was the Local Government
and the planning of FEMA that deserves most of the blame.

SO STFU ALREADY AND GET OFF YOUR PLATFORM !!!
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Guest BlackJesus
[quote]there are two types of people when it comes to disasters.. those that try to lead others in the right direction and those that blame others for mistakes they may or may not have made, while they could be helping and bitching later on...

which side are you falling on bj??[/quote]


[i][b]Other than donating money which I have already.... what else am I supposed to be doing.... is there an available chopper for me to jump on.... noone can enter the city... everyone wants to get out.... the Mayor and Governor are asking people to raise awareness of the plight in hopes that it will get the Govt to actually do something.... I have tried to call some radio stations but they are swamped with people saying the same thing as me.... I guess I could call Bushs brother My Governor and tell him to remove the thumb from his ass.........I am on the side that demands that the richest nation in the world save our own people.... even if they are poor and black[/b][/i]
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Guest BlackJesus

[quote]Bush did all he could do[/quote]

[i][b]wow I have seen a new level of conceptual reality and self convincing that I did not think was possible.... [/b][/i] :glare:

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Guest BlackJesus
[img]http://hughesforamerica.typepad.com/hughes_for_america/images/capt.capm10208301856.bush__capm102.jpg[/img]
President Bush plays a guitar presented to him by Country Singer Mark Wills, right, backstage following his visit to Naval Base Coronado, Tuesday, Aug. 30, 2005. (AP Photo/ABC News, Martha Raddatz)


[img]http://hughesforamerica.typepad.com/hughes_for_america/images/capt.msjb11008300301.huricane_katrina__msjb110.jpg[/img]
Elvin Duckworth, left, Jonathan Harvey, center, and Leonard Harvey paddle a row boat through a flooded street in their Gulfport, Miss, neighborhood after Hurricane Katrina struck the Gulf Coast Monday, Aug. 29, 2005. (AP Photo/John Bazemore)


[img]http://hughesforamerica.typepad.com/hughes_for_america/images/capt.laeg11108302250.hurricane_katrina_laeg111.jpg[/img]
Evelyn Turner cries alongside the body of her common-law husband, Xavier Bowie, after he died in New Orleans, Tuesday, Aug. 30, 2005. Bowie and Turner had decided to ride out Hurricane Katrina when they could not find a way to leave the city. Bowie, who had lung cancer, died when he ran out of oxygen Tuesday afternoon.(AP Photo/Eric Gay)



[b]there are not words to describe ..... the fact that we are spiraling into Chaos with an absoltue Chimp at the helm [/b]
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Guest BlackJesus

[color="blue"][i][b]sounds like me arguing with Oldschooler....[/b][/i][/color]

[quote][u]Anderson Cooper Interview From CNN:[/u]
[img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons//41.gif[/img]   [img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons//41.gif[/img]   [img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons//41.gif[/img]   [img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons//41.gif[/img]   [img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons//41.gif[/img]

[b]COOPER: Joining me from Baton Rouge is Louisiana Senator Mary Landrieu. Senator, appreciate you joining us tonight. Does the federal government bear responsibility for what is happening now? Should they apologize for what is happening now?[/b]

SEN. MARY LANDRIEU (D), LOUISIANA: Anderson, there will be plenty of time to discuss all of those issues, about why, and how, and what, and if. But, Anderson, as you understand, and all of the producers and directors of CNN, and the news networks, this situation is very serious and it's going to demand all of our full attention through the hours, through the nights, through the days.

Let me just say a few things. Thank President Clinton and former President Bush for their strong statements of support and comfort today. I thank all the leaders that are coming to Louisiana, and Mississippi, and Alabama to our help and rescue.

We are grateful for the military assets that are being brought to bear. I want to thank Senator Frist and Senator Reid for their extraordinary efforts.

Anderson, tonight, I don't know if you've heard – maybe you all have announced it – but Congress is going to an unprecedented session to pass a $10 billion supplemental bill tonight to keep FEMA and the Red Cross up and operating.

[b]COOPER: Excuse me, Senator, I'm sorry for interrupting. I haven't heard that, because, for the last four days, I've been seeing dead bodies in the streets here in Mississippi. And to listen to politicians thanking each other and complimenting each other, you know, I got to tell you, there are a lot of people here who are very upset, and very angry, and very frustrated.

And when they hear politicians slap – you know, thanking one another, it just, you know, it kind of cuts them the wrong way right now, because literally there was a body on the streets of this town yesterday being eaten by rats because this woman had been laying in the street for 48 hours. And there's not enough facilities to take her up. -_-

Do you get the anger that is out here?[/b] :angry:

LANDRIEU: Anderson, I have the anger inside of me. Most of the homes in my family have been destroyed. Our homes have been destroyed. I understand what you're saying, and I know all of those details. And the president of the United States knows those details.

[b]COOPER: Well, who are you angry at?[/b]

LANDRIEU: I'm not angry at anyone. I'm just expressing that it is so important for everyone in this nation to pull together, for all military assets and all assets to be brought to bare in this situation.

And I have every confidence that this country is as great and as strong as we can be do to that. And that effort is under way.

[b]COOPER: Well, I mean, there are a lot of people here who are kind of ashamed of what is happening in this country right now, what is – ashamed of what is happening in your state, certainly.

And that's not to blame the people who are there. It's a desperate situation. But I guess, you know, who can – I mean, no one seems to be taking responsibility.

I mean, I know you say there's a time and a place for, kind of, you know, looking back, but this seems to be the time and the place. I mean, there are people who want answers, and there are people who want someone to stand up and say, "You know what? We should have done more. Are all the assets being brought to bare?"[/b]

LANDRIEU: Anderson, Anderson ...

[b]COOPER: I mean, today, for the first time, I'm seeing National Guard troops in this town.[/b][/quote]

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Guest oldschooler

[quote name='BlackJesus' date='Sep 2 2005, 10:11 AM'][i][b]wow I have seen a new level of conceptual reality and self convincing that I did not think was possible.... [/b][/i] :glare:
[right][post="140583"][/post][/right][/quote]


Yeah you`re the only person that actually sees
reality and the rest of us are just blinded sheep.

Really shut the fuck up.

Bush declared the place a disaster area.
Congress pushed $10.5 in aid through.
They are sending AT LEAST 40,000 troops there to help.
He is there NOW to get shit going the way it should have
to begin with.


I don`t understand why boats, trucks, helicopters and
planes weren`t loaded and waiting to rush in as soon as the
weather cleared. But to throw all of the blame on
the War, Bush and act like why the things have went
the way they have because most of the people are
poor blacks IS conceptual reality and self convincing]
at it`s finest....bravo for you ! [img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons//41.gif[/img]


:roll:


And BJ I don`t know if you read it or not.
But I posted the other day in the "Our Tsunami" thread
that it was embarrassing and infuriating about how things
are going down there. So yes I am angry and I think it
is fucked up that if this shit happened in another part
of the world even to "poor black" people...that we would
have already came to save their day !

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Guest BlackJesus

[img]http://hughesforamerica.typepad.com/hughes_for_america/images/capt.capm10208301856.bush__capm102.jpg[/img]
[b]Bush on Aug 30th [/b]


[i]Tap your feet Old..... :dance: [/i]

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Guest oldschooler

[quote name='BlackJesus' date='Sep 2 2005, 10:59 AM'][img]http://hughesforamerica.typepad.com/hughes_for_america/images/capt.capm10208301856.bush__capm102.jpg[/img]
[b]Bush on Aug 30th [/b]
[i]Tap your feet Old..... :dance: [/i]
[right][post="140609"][/post][/right][/quote]


Do you not read ?

I am not praising Bush for the way things have went down there.
I am saying that blaming it on the War in Iraq, because the people
are mostly poor blacks and acting like Bush has been partying is
asinine.


Bush was just on TV saying that "It is unacceptable and things
are going to change." He isn`t happy with the way things are going
either. He is doing more to change shit down there than you are giving
him credit for.

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2 things

1. The National Guard if you didn’t know falls under the control of the states Governor with the exception of when they are at war (and only the ones who are deployed fall under the national government at that time), and Jason is very right in saying that there are select national guardsmen that are trained for war and some trained for emergency relief, also Ryan makes a good point that you cant predict weather like this (hell how many of us curse the weathermen on our local news when they get it wrong) years into the future (many of those troops in Iraq now were sent there a year or years ago).

2. There is a bit of honesty that is disturbing here that I’m not sure some realize, the fact is that many many many programs in both the state and national government get ignored until things like this force light onto them.


I’m angry about this situation as well and more than that I’m disturbed at the chaos that’s going on that will make it harder for those going down to help, to help. These are desperate times for these folks so I empathize with the sense of desperation they feel.

However I’m a bit troubled by the simplisticness of blaming this on one person (ie: Bush), its so much more complex than that, it's poorly managed and under funded relief programs, its the poorly managed and under funded emergency evacuation programs as well. All of these programs are and should be run by the state, the federal government should help when in emergencies like this with funding, but from a logistical standpoint the state should be in charge of what happens, and not only that but the state should be in charge of preplanning for emergencies in general, even if sometimes they cant always plan for the dramatic like this. I’m a bit surprised that some are putting all of the blame on one person and not more on the state and the people who are in charge of these programs, especially those who are pretty damn intelligent, I expected more from them.
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The one thing that angers me is that he used this to lower EPA guidelines. He basically used this as an excuse to push his platform. It is obvious whether you like it or not.

On another note, I think the war and this event can't be placed together, as much as some people would like. However, I do believe he, as well as a lot of the politicians in those areas, did poor jobs in handling this situation. Once they saw this coming troops should have been waiting near by to deploy. If it was obvious to me that something like this was coming, it should have been obvious to those in government. Poor jobs all around.
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Someone said it right earlier: People First.

It's a shame that tragedy has to strike to really hammer this point home.

Go [url="http://www.asce.org/reportcard/2005/index.cfm"]to this site [/url]to see the sorry state of investment in this country with respect to crucial infrastructure that we all tend to take for granted. Take a while to roam around the site and take in the implications of this lack of investment.

Then, write your Congressional representatives and tell them to find a way to build coalitions around rebuilding this country. Insist on it, them them if they don't do it that you'll hit the streets and see that they are not reelected.

Thousands dead. Most of them did not need to die.
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This is an interesting [url="http://www.fema.gov/news/newsrelease.fema?id=18473"]list at FEMA [/url]:

The third one is the Humane Society; now, I like my pets, but if I'm literally starving--break out the ketchup.

Operation Blessing is Pat Robertson's outfit, btw

<edited to add this>

Typical bureaucratic double-talk: "Self-dispatch." I think I'll dispatch myself to the corner bar on that note.
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Guest steggyD
BJ. Do you blame the local governments first? The mayor of NO, the governor of LA. Don't they hold responsibity first and foremost for their people. They should have had a better evacuation plan than to stick them all in a stadium. I don't know about you, but if a storm is headed my way, I would not trust the federal government to bus me out of my town. I would rather see what my local government is doing for me first. I would think that the feds are trying to gas me or some shit.

Anyways, I think people like you are trying to blame Bush for anything you can. And as for lowering EPA ... gotta go, I'll
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Guest BlackJesus
[u]Van Jones
9/01/2005
Bush's Role in the Drowning of New Orleans
[/u]



Don't say that a hurricane destroyed New Orleans. Hurricanes don't drown cities.

It was a "perfect storm" of a different kind that put that great city underwater: Bush-era neglect of our national infrastructure, combined with runaway global warming and a deep contempt for poor African-Americans.

The result: catastrophe. The flooding was not a result of heavy rains.

It is a result of a weak levee -- one that was in mid-repair when the storm hit. And that levee, which has held back floodwaters for time beyond memory, collapsed for one simple reason: Bush refused to fix it last summer, when local officials were begging him to do so. Instead, he diverted those funds to the war effort.

In other words, the dollars that could have saved New Orleans were used to wage war in Iraq, instead. What's worse: funds that might have spared the poor in New Orleans (had the dollars been properly invested in levees and modern pumping stations), were instead passed out to the rich, willy-nilly -- as tax breaks.

With those two simple steps, Bush squandered the hard-won Clinton-era surplus. He left the national piggy bank empty for fixing and maintaining basic U.S. infrastructure. (And what was Clinton doing next to the president, giving him cover at a time like this?)

Had the levee repairs been completed in a timely manner (two years ago), Katrina would have hit hard, destroyed buildings and probably taken some lives. But it would NOT have cracked open the floodwalls and submerged an entire CITY. It took Bush's criminal neglect of his domestic duties to produce that outcome.

But that is only one area of Bush's culpability. Ross Gelbspan says: "Katrina began as a relatively small hurricane that glanced off south Florida, [but] it was supercharged with extraordinary intensity by the relatively blistering sea surface temperatures in the Gulf of Mexico."

In other words, global warming likely super-charged this hurricane. Yet Bush's energy policies amount to an ongoing conspiracy to add even MORE carbon to the atmosphere, further destabilizing the climate.

So get ready for even worse storms next year, and the next. And the next.

And the human suffering was not -- and will not be -- equally distributed.

Poor people and Black people didn't "choose to stay behind." They were left behind. All evacuation plans required the city's residents to have working, private cars -- plus gas money, nearby relatives or funds for a hotel stay. And if you didn't have all those things, tough luck.

Had the responsible agencies valued the lives of the poor, they would have helped the destitute flee in the face of the hurricane -- even those who couldn't afford a car or a motel room. But when the "face of suffering" is Black, somehow our high standards for effective action and compassion begin to sag.

Of course, seeing this, Bush could have taken a strong stand for the poor and the suffering. But his half-hearted, emotionally flat statement on Wednesday did little to rally the nation. It seems that, as long as "the terrorists" didn't do it, Bush just can't get himself too worked up about Americans dying by the hundreds.

So tonight Americans are dying in the flooded streets of New Orleans like flies. And many of the men and women in uniform who could help rescue them and restore order are nowhere to be found. Instead of helping their grandparents and aiding their neighbors in this time of crisis, Louisiana and Mississippi guardsmen are half-a-world away, fighting for a lie.

We are witnessing a monumental leadership failure in the Bush White House, on top of five years of foolish policies that set the city of New Orleans up for this disaster in the first place.

We must not be afraid to speak that truth. Some will say that this is no time for playing the "blame game." No time for engaging in "divisive politics."

Pardon me. To the contrary: this is exactly the time to draw a clear line of distinction between those of us who have always fought to invest in this country -- and those who happily squandered the national treasure on give-aways and imperial adventures. Between those of us who have long fought to protect the most vulnerable among us, and those who have worked feverishly to undo those protections.

This is no time for progressives to be hemmed in by some false "unity" with a President whose policies are largely to blame for this disaster. Too much is at stake, going forward.

In the short term, we must exert maximum pressure on the federal government to pull out all stops to rescue people and re-establish peace and good order. And in the weeks to come, we must demand an immediate repeal of the tax cuts -- to enable a massive investment for rebuilding New Orleans and repairing the nation's crumbling infrastructure. Also, any Louisiana and Mississippi guardsmen who want to return home from Iraq to aid their statesmen should be allowed to do so.

The truth is that the poor people of Louisiana were deliberately left behind -- and not just over the weekend. Our political leaders as a class -- and George W. Bush, in particular -- left them behind a long time ago.

In the aftermath of this wholly avoidable catastrophe, let us do all we can to rescue those who have been abandoned. And then let us rescue the U.S. government from those who engineered that abandonment.

And let us recognize our sacred duty in completing BOTH acts.
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Guest oldschooler

Why don`t you ever provide links to the
articles you post ? [img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons//39.gif[/img]


Anyway this thread is beyond stupid.
I`m staying out of it...I said all I had to
say and you just reply back with more
nut job articles and pictures... :pointlaff:

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Guest BlackJesus
[quote]I`m staying out of it...I said all I had to[/quote]

[i][b]the blind usually enjoy their blindfold [img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/30.gif[/img] [/b][/i]
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Guest oldschooler

[quote name='BlackJesus' date='Sep 2 2005, 03:14 PM'][i][b]the blind usually enjoy their blindfold  [img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons//30.gif[/img] [/b][/i]
[right][post="140741"][/post][/right][/quote]


Yeah...and dumbasses usually enjoy living
with their head up their ass.

I`d rather be wearing a blind fold than not being
able to see from looking at my own shit like you. :pointlaff:

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