Bush should take notes from Fidel Castro

[Guest BlackJesus]

[img]http://image.guardian.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2004/05/10/fidel.jpg[/img]
[u]Linda Cronin-Gross
9/02/2005
Chaos in New Orleans, But Cuba Got It Right [/u]



Chaos in New Orleans – But Cuba Got It Right

Cuba, yes, Cuba (I can just hear the right wing posters now …). The island nation is beset by hurricanes over and over again, and yet… no scenes like the revolting ones that are being played out right here in Third World, USA.

Just a couple of months ago, Cuba successfully evacuated 1.7 million of its people in the wake of Hurricane Dennis.

Lots of right wing commentators and posters have claimed that “you can’t stop a hurricane,” and “it’s an act of God.” Well, you can prepare – and I actually was dumb enough to think that some of our taxes that are going to Homeland Security were being spent on emergency preparation – or what we so quaintly used to call “civil defense.” Wrong again!

So how come one of the smallest island nations of the world – with a mere fraction of our resources – can accomplish what we can’t?

The answer came in a number of very interesting email exchanges I’ve received. Ned Sublette, a New Orleans resident, who talked about the impacts of Katrina on the Gulf Coast on Air America’s Mike Molloy show this past Wednesday night, just spent most of a year doing research on music, popular culture and history of the area and its relationship to the rest of the Caribbean. He has been in touch with Nelson Valdes who, as Ned puts it in an email to his friend, Louis Head, is “a walking encyclopedia of knowledge about Cuba.” Here’s how Nelson says Cuba does it (I’m paraphrasing):

Civil defense is embedded in the community to begin with. People know ahead of time where they are to go. (just like in New Orleans, right?)

They (people assigned to civil defense) come to your door and knock, and tell you, “the evacuation is coming,” then they come back and tell you, “it’s now.”

If there’s no electricity, communication about what’s to be done is maintained by “runners” who fan out from a main headquarters to central locations.

The country's leaders go on TV and take charge. (They’re not on vacation!) But they are not only ones speaking in public. The TV weatherpeople are knowledgeable, and the population is well educated, in advance, about hurricanes.

People are not only evacuated; they know beforehand where they will go. And pickup and delivery of people is also arranged ahead of time. (Pickup and delivery -- of everybody – not just telling people to evacuate, many of whom don’t have the resources.)

Merely sticking people in a stadium is unthinkable in Cuba. Any shelters that are needed have medical personnel. Cuban doctors evacuate together with their neighborhood, and already know, for example, who needs insulin.

If there’s a need to evacuate to a countryside high school -- a last resort -- there are already dormitories there.

There are also veterinarians on hand, and they evacuate animals. They allow people to leave with items such as TV sets and refrigerators, so that people aren't reluctant to leave because they’re afraid their most needed items will be lost or stolen.

It’s all about “social capital” – having country-wide values that place all human life above all else – and way, way above the “bottom line.” Poor black Cubans aren’t left out or left behind. Our mighty country seems to have a short supply of social capital at the highest levels, and all the financial resources at our command could not -- or, more correctly, would not – be used to help our fellow Americans – mostly poor and black -- in New Orleans. And it’s not like there weren’t any warnings.

If there was any doubt before about how much race and class divide this country, those doubts have been washed away with New Orleans.

What we’re all waiting for now is for some of the more brave elected officials (where are you?) to stand up and demand the impeachment of George W. Bush.

[Guest BlackJesus]

[color="purple"][b] actual quote from a few hours ago...... (someone please shoot Bush)[/b][/color]



[quote][i]“The good news is -- and it's hard for some to see it now -- that out of this chaos is going to come a fantastic Gulf Coast, like it was before. Out of the rubbles of Trent Lott's house -- he's lost his entire house -- there's going to be a fantastic house. And I'm looking forward to sitting on the porch.” (Laughter.)[/i]
[b]--- President Bush, Friday 2 pm Speech in Mississippi[/b][/quote]

[img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons//30.gif[/img] [img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons//30.gif[/img] [img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons//30.gif[/img] [img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons//30.gif[/img] [img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons//30.gif[/img] [img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons//30.gif[/img]




[color="purple"][b]Hell I would rather have Castro [/b][/color]

[Guest oldschooler]

Why don`t you just move to Cuba ?
You seem to love it more than your own Country...

[Guest BlackJesus]

[i]"The critical thing was to get people out of there before the disaster. Some people chose not to obey that order. That was a mistake on their part."[/i]
[b]--- Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff, this morning on the today show[/b]



[color="red"][i][b]= we are being run by fucking morons.... the Greyhounds , airports, and Amrtrak all shut down 2 days before the Hurrican arrived and the evacuation was called.... the only way out was private car and you had to have the $ to fill up your Gas tank.... and the end of the month most of the poor who didn't even own cars were stranded..... But this Fucktard blames the elderly and poor as if they wanted to drown.


= Those that continuely support these assholes are just as treasonous.... and if they are hopefully couped out of the White house... I hope we start rounding up and doing a Nurembourg Trial on all of these assholes..... [/b][/i][/color]

[Guest bengalrick]

i guess bush should have told everyone to pack up their shit and run for the hills instead of being a leader, and speaking reality... the gulf coast and NO WILL be better than it ever was... it IS hard to see that right now, especially for those that just lost their houses... but what doesn't kill, you makes you stronger...

[Guest bengalrick]

[quote name='BlackJesus' date='Sep 2 2005, 04:30 PM'][i]"The critical thing was to get people out of there before the disaster.  Some people chose not to obey that order. That was a mistake on their part."[/i]
[b]--- Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff, this morning on the today show[/b]
[color="red"][i][b]= we are being run by fucking morons....   the Greyhounds , airports, and Amrtrak all shut down 2 days before the Hurrican arrived and the evacuation was called.... the only way out was private car and you had to have the $ to fill up your Gas tank.... and the end of the month most of the poor who didn't even own cars were stranded..... But this Fucktard blames the elderly and poor as if they wanted to drown.
= Those that continuely support these assholes are just as treasonous.... and if they are hopefully couped out of the White house... I hope we start rounding up and doing a Nurembourg Trial on all of these assholes..... [/b][/i][/color]
[right][post="140753"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote]

if i lived 20 feet below sea level, was warned a category 3, 4 or 5 would make my homeland flood, and was told a category 5 hurricane was making a bead line to my city, i would leave... if it was on foot, so be it... i feel extremely bad and will help any small way i can, but i have no sypathy for them... this isnt' like a earthquake, where you don't know where or when it will hit... call me heartless, but these people could have left... i'm sure a small percentage couldn't get our b/c they would have literally been on foot, and for them, i do feel some sypathy (even though in the same situation, i'd be walking away) but for the other large percentage, they should have listened to all the warnings...

[Guest BlackJesus]

[quote]but these people could have left[/quote]


[i][b]pure shit.... spoken obviously by someone who has never been dirt poor .... how were they supposed to leave... most had shitty jobs that paid them on the 1st of the month.... so they were at the end.... they didn't own cars, amtrak was shutdown, airports were shut down, the only way to leave was by car. So basically you needed a working car and at least 40 $ to fill up your tank. Then $ to eat once you left. for people with no extra $$$ this is impossible. I know it is uncomfortable for Whites to realize just how many poor blacks we have hidden in America but it is an insidious problem and NO is the prime example of Capitalism gone bad. [/b][/i]

[Guest BlackJesus]

[quote]the gulf coast and NO WILL be better than it ever was... it IS hard to see that right now, especially for those that just lost their houses... but what doesn't kill, you makes you stronger...[/quote]

[img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/24.gif[/img] [img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/24.gif[/img] [img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/24.gif[/img]


[i][b]Tell that to the thousands of Dead.... you actually just made the idiotic argument I listened to Rush Limbaugh make earlier... first he blamed the poor blacks for not owning a car, then he accused them of being drug addicts (not to mention he is also) then he said the positive is that shantys will be replaced by nice condos with higher property values.... Mein Kampf at its finest.... God dammit why is there laws.... so many people to assassinate for fun.... (where's that grenade launcher)[/b][/i]

[Nati Ice]

what "shitty" jobs do you know of that only pays on the 1st of the month, the only one ive ever heard of is this thing called wellfare... and those people dont "own" houses, they live in subsadized housing or apartments

its this simple, they were warned several days in advance that a gigantic storm was headed their way and n.o. would end up a dozen feet or more below sea level... as a semi-competent poor person i would have simple packed up whatever essentials i needed and headed the fuck out of town after i heard of the need for immediate evacuation... if i have no car or any other essentials i walk my happy ass... fuck food, ill take what i can carry but id rather live and go without for a few days than fucking die because im too steelers suck ass/ stubborn to leave my gov't subsadized housing... i feel bad for them that through the confusion this was the only options for them but so be it, make due with what you got

[Guest BlackJesus]

[quote]what "shitty" jobs do you know of that only pays on the 1st of the month,[/quote]

[i][b]shitty jobs pay on the 15th and 1st but they would have been running out of the 15th payments by then [/b][/i]

[|Bunghole|]

[quote name='BlackJesus' date='Sep 2 2005, 04:03 PM'][i][b]pure shit.... spoken obviously by someone who has never been dirt poor .... how were they supposed to leave... most had shitty jobs that paid them on the 1st of the month.... so they were at the end.... they didn't own cars, amtrak was shutdown, airports were shut down, the only way to leave was by car.  So basically you needed a working car and at least 40 $ to fill up your tank.  Then $ to eat once you left.  for people with no extra $$$ this is impossible.  I know it is uncomfortable for Whites to realize just how many poor blacks we have hidden in America but it is an insidious problem and NO is the prime example of Capitalism gone bad.  [/b][/i]
[right][post="140777"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote]
They could have walked.
And nothing other than illness, physical or mental, can justify being poor in this country.
Otherwise you are just plain stupid for not pursuing the opportunities that are available to EVERY American regardless of race, etc.
Go to school, get a job, get student loans...it's all available for people who are willing to WORK for it!
Instead many choose the route of the streets, and pay the price of ignorance.

[Guest BlackJesus]

[i][b]Many of the dead are old people in Wheel Chairs that they are having to place sheets over and prop up dead against walls while Rats eat them !!! Also while some of the Younger people Yes could have walked - If you notice where ever theire is a young person they are usually pushing or helping float an elderly person... were they just supposed to let Granny drown and leave her ?

You both have lost touch with reality.... and are existing in a theoretical world on paper devoid of actual reality.


Americans preach loyalty to Country... but it is always the so called Patriotic ones who are the heartless assholes and don't care for their dark colored countrymen and it is always the so called Left winger Commies who actually care about their fellow citizens who are poor and dieing. [/b][/i]

[|Bunghole|]

[quote name='BlackJesus' date='Sep 2 2005, 04:26 PM'][i][b]Many of the dead are old people in Wheel Chairs that they are having to place sheets over and prop up dead against walls while Rats eat them !!!  Also while some of the Younger people Yes could have walked - If you notice where ever theire is a young person they are usually pushing or helping float an elderly person... were they just supposed to let Granny drown and leave her ?

You both have lost touch with reality.... and are existing in a theoretical world on paper devoid of actual reality. 
Americans preach loyalty to Country... but it is always the so called Patriotic ones who are the heartless assholes and don't care for their dark colored countrymen and it is always the so called Left winger Commies who actually care about their fellow citizens who are poor and dieing.  [/b][/i]
[right][post="140804"][/post][/right][/quote]
Of course I meant those that were able-bodied. But I get the impression that many decided to either view this as an opportunity to loot, so they stayed, or they thought that they could "ride it out"--but even when the floodwaters started coming, most able-bodied people (those NOT caring for Granny, etc) STILL had time to get out of there! And didn't!
I'm not being heartless, but if you KNEW a Cat 4 or 5 Hurricane was going to slam into your home, would you stay if you had the opportunity and wherewithal to leave?

[Guest bengalrick]

maybe the mayor should have had buses to evacuate the poor and elderly out of the city when he declared a MANDATORY evacuation?

maybe he could have used the school buses (like the teenager that stole one) to charter them out, considering getting chartered busses there would be tough...

maybe the mayor shouldn't have turned away the many, many people in boats that voluntarily went to N.O. to help w/ the relief efforts?

maybe the mayor and Lousiana gov't should have thought about this a decade ago, and this project would be over by now, and the city would have been able to withstand a category 5 hurricane?

maybe the governor or louisiana should have deployed the Louisiana national guard after the flooding started, to offset the looting and allowed the police officers and fire dept to rescue people, instead of fearing for their lives and most of them turning their badges in?

maybe bush should have been on the ball more, and realized that the federal national guard needed to be ready, and realized that the local gov't in N.O. is corrupt and useless, and needed to be handheld through this tragedy?

maybe the local gov't there should have been more prepared, instead of letting the prisoners of the local jail out, b/c it was flooding the they had no where to put them?

there are many questions to be asked, but you are fascinated w/ the "blame bush" arguement, so whatever you say is golden bj...

bush was far from perfect in these scenarios... but he is far to blame solely... in a crisis, the local and state governments are in charge, until the federal level takes over... now that they have, things are in check now... you need to look at the whole picture, instead of having tunnel vision on one person (bush)... you have some valid arguements but do you expect anyone to listen, if all you do is put blame on one person, when the facts are overwhelming that this was a total fuck up, acrossed the board??

[Guest bengalrick]

[url="http://66.102.7.104/search?q=cache:RGrwXIfpv8UJ:www.cnn.com/rssclick/2005/WEATHER/08/28/hurricane.katrina/%3Fsection%3Dcnn_topstories+president+bush+called+blanco+mandatory+evacuation+new+orleans&hl=en"]cnn.com[/url]

-[i]President Bush announced Sunday that he had issued disaster declarations for Louisiana, Mississippi and parts of southern Florida. The declaration for Miami-Dade and Broward counties in Florida will allow residents there to apply for federal disaster aid.[/i]

-[i][b]Louisiana Gov. Kathleen Blanco said that it was President Bush that had called and urged the state to order the evacuation[/b].[/i]

-[i]"We'll do everything in our power to help the people and communities affected by this storm," he said. [/i]

-[i]The president urged anyone in the storm's path "to put their own safety and the safety of their families first by moving to [b]safe ground[/b]."[/i]

you know what is fucked up... cnn didn't realize that a natural disaster was going to be blamed on bush, and if you go the [url="http://www.cnn.com/2005/WEATHER/08/28/hurricane.katrina/?section=cnn_topstories"]current cnn[/url] article and that quote isn't there anymore... but it was saved on another website, so their extreme anti-bush biased is exposed...

it seems to me, that bush was the sole reason that a mandatory evacuation was even called for... i wonder how many lives that saved??

[Guest oldschooler]

You guys are talking to a fucking wall. (BJ)
He doesn`t care about common sense and
reasoning.

He just wants to use anything and everything
as a podium to whack off and bash Bush.

He is the most closed minded person that I have ever seen.
What he says is fact...don`t you know ? He preaches
to others to be more open minded and is deaf to his own sermon...

[Guest bengalrick]

[quote name='oldschooler' date='Sep 2 2005, 06:45 PM']You guys are talking to a fucking wall. (BJ)
He doesn`t care about common sense and
reasoning.

He just wants to use anything and everything
as a podium to whack off and bash Bush.

He is the most closed minded person that I have ever seen.
What he says is fact...don`t you know ? He preaches
to others to be more open minded and is deaf to his own sermon...
[right][post="140835"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote]

he at least shuts up usually, after he is proven wrong...

he will never admit being wrong though... its so obvious that bush actually saved many, many lives by talking the governor into a manditory evac... but your right, bj will say some off the wall shit and try to discredit this too..

oh well, at least we know the truth now...

[Lawman]

Just wanted to put out a happy note out of a dire situation.

500 retired Veterans were evacuted from the Armed Forces Home in Gulfport, Miss. and brought to D.C last night. I have been told the home has been destroyed and for any Active Duty out there, this is the home where your .50 a month goes to support.

First: I hate CNN, I hate CNN, I hate CNN. IMO, they are the ones pushing this agenda of castin blame.

[color="blue"]The Mayor of NO [/color]is the one to be held accountable if anyone wants to cast blame; who better is to know about their City than he. He makes a statement of a mandatory evacuation, but what other actions did he take?Where were the civic leaders of these poor communitties. BJ this is not a racial thing, but an eco-social issue and responsibility should fall at the local level first.
IMO, this Mayor was and is INCOMPETENT.

What pisses me off goes back to CNN; I have Picture-In-Picture(PIP) and split between Fox and CNN, Fox was showing the Coast Guard rescuing in a house; CNN was bashing the local, state and FEDERAL response.

Anderson Cooper is a Dick-Head!! He's talking about the lack of National Guards; like they all were on airplane ready to be dropped in after the Hurricane hit.
I hate CNN.
BJ I do not think you are Al-Quaida agent; I think you are a covert CNN operative.
CNN

[Lawman]

Anderson must of heard me; he's finally thrown it on the Mayor and possing this to Jesse Jackson.

Jackson stummering to defend mayor.

[Ben]

I caught a bit of o'reilly(yesterday i think). he found the most inarticulate black person in NO to represent the people that stayed....... Then found a white professor who talked about escaping in his lexis suv.

[Lawman]

[quote name='Ben' date='Sep 2 2005, 08:45 PM']I caught a bit of o'reilly(yesterday i think).  he found the most inarticulate black person in NO to represent the people that stayed....... Then found a white professor who talked about escaping in his lexis suv.
[right][post="140863"][/post][/right][/quote]
O'reilly is on now and it appears, he is coordinating efforts in NO from his studio's.
[img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons//41.gif[/img]

[Guest BlackJesus]

[quote]maybe the mayor should have had buses to evacuate the poor and elderly out of the city when he declared a MANDATORY evacuation?[/quote]

[i][b]He has been asking for the Buses and Bus drivers both are awol.... Bush made it a Federal Disaster area which meant that FEMA was supposed to be providing th funds for such things.... and the personnel (the National Guard)[/b][/i]


[quote]maybe the mayor shouldn't have turned away the many, many people in boats that voluntarily went to N.O. to help w/ the relief efforts?[/quote]

[i][b]Once Martial Law was declared noone could enter.... Martial Law then become the sole responsibility of the National Guard and they wanted the area sealed off. The National Guard answers to the commander and chief. He was on Vacation for the first 3 days after the storm. [/b][/i]


[quote]maybe the mayor and Lousiana gov't should have thought about this a decade ago, and this project would be over by now, and the city would have been able to withstand a category 5 hurricane?[/quote]

[i][b]are you serious.... They did.... they ran Public service announcements... asked Bush for more funding... and then commented earlier this year that all the Levee money went to Iraq instead --- Hello !!![/b][/i]

[quote]maybe the governor or louisiana should have deployed the Louisiana national guard after the flooding started, to offset the looting[/quote]

[i][b]40 % of the Lousianna Natl Guard is in Baghdad... the others can not be activated by a Governor.... they are under the Federal Govt [/b][/i]

[quote]maybe bush should have been on the ball more, and realized that the federal national guard needed to be ready[/quote]

[i][b]Maybe he was thinking and letting his piss dry like with my pet goat :rolleyes[/b][/i]:


[quote]maybe the local gov't there should have been more prepared, instead of letting the prisoners of the local jail out, b/c it was flooding the they had no where to put them?[/quote]

[i][b]If they had evacuated them first you would have said "why did we save Prisoners before civilians" .... They also were not let out on the loose... thay are being held in other areas[/b][/i]

[quote]there are many questions to be asked, but you are fascinated w/ the "blame bush" arguement, so whatever you say is golden bj...[/quote]

[i][b]When there is a mistake .... you blame the leadership.... The Republicans own this government and every facet of it... The President is a colossal failure... and just because some of you voted for him you don't want to realize that[/b][/i]


[quote]bush was far from perfect in these scenarios... but he is far to blame solely... you need to look at the whole picture, instead of having tunnel vision on one person (bush)... you have some valid arguements but do you expect anyone to listen, if all you do is put blame on one person, when the facts are overwhelming that this was a total fuck up, acrossed the board??[/quote]

[i][b]Of course it is a fuck up across the board... and of course hundreds of people down the line are at fault.... you start at the top of the line and start firing people all the way down.... Bush and all the other tards regardless of Political affiliation should be ousted... if the Mayor fucked up Can him too...... [/b][/i]

[Guest BlackJesus]

[quote]cnn.com

-President Bush announced Sunday that he had issued disaster declarations for Louisiana, Mississippi and parts of southern Florida. The declaration for Miami-Dade and Broward counties in Florida will allow residents there to apply for federal disaster aid.

-Louisiana Gov. Kathleen Blanco said that it was President Bush that had called and urged the state to order the evacuation.

-"We'll do everything in our power to help the people and communities affected by this storm," he said.

-The president urged anyone in the storm's path "to put their own safety and the safety of their families first by moving to safe ground."

you know what is fucked up... cnn didn't realize that a natural disaster was going to be blamed on bush, and if you go the current cnn article and that quote isn't there anymore... but it was saved on another website, so their extreme anti-bush biased is exposed...

it seems to me, that bush was the sole reason that a mandatory evacuation was even called for... i wonder how many lives that saved??[/quote]

[i][b]I have read both articles... I don't see the point ..... they are different articles from different days.... one is

Sunday, August 28, 2005; Posted: 11:47 a.m. EDT (15:47 GMT)
Monday, August 29, 2005; Posted: 12:10 a.m. EDT (04:10 GMT)


Also Ok the Mayor called for a Mandatory Evacuation - We already knew that .... where is the story here.... that Bush called him and mentioned that "Hey a Big fucking hurricane is heading right for you" --- Wow thanks George for that insight... now go back to chopping wood and praying for Jesus.

Ypu obviously think that you have stumbled upon some conspiracy to hide something.... so rather than discount it.... tell me what it is.... ?????[/b][/i]


[quote]he at least shuts up usually, after he is proven wrong...

he will never admit being wrong though... its so obvious that bush actually saved many, many lives by talking the governor into a manditory evac... but your right, bj will say some off the wall shit and try to discredit this too..[/quote]

[i][b]Um I have repeadtedly admitted that i was wrong to want Bush to Defeat Kerry..... And how is it that Bush saved lives.... a Mandatory eveacuation was the only reasonable thing to do and what is always done.... the mistake is not providing the means to evacuate them ..... and Bush morphed the FEMA under Homeland security and put his Lawyer buddy with no experience in Charge..... thus FEMA was in shambles without the resources... and Bush cut the cash to maintain the levies[/b][/i]

[Beaker]

[quote name='BlackJesus' date='Sep 2 2005, 10:03 PM'][i][b]pure shit.... spoken obviously by someone who has never been dirt poor .... how were they supposed to leave... most had shitty jobs that paid them on the 1st of the month.... so they were at the end.... they didn't own cars, amtrak was shutdown, airports were shut down, the only way to leave was by car.  So basically you needed a working car and at least 40 $ to fill up your tank.  Then $ to eat once you left.  for people with no extra $$$ this is impossible.  I know it is uncomfortable for Whites to realize just how many poor blacks we have hidden in America but it is an insidious problem and NO is the prime example of Capitalism gone bad.  [/b][/i]
[right][post="140777"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote]

Last time I checked it didnt cost anything to walk. If my family was in iminent danger and had 5 days notice, and I had no money or car...I'd grab my daughter and walk. Has nothing to do with being dirt poor. Wealth is not an indicator of common sense.

[|Bunghole|]

[quote name='Bunghole' date='Sep 2 2005, 05:13 PM']Of course I meant those that were able-bodied.  But I get the impression that many decided to either view this as an opportunity to loot, so they stayed, or they thought that they could "ride it out"--but even when the floodwaters started coming, most able-bodied people (those NOT caring for Granny, etc) STILL had time to get out of there!  And didn't!
I'm not being heartless, but if you KNEW a Cat 4 or 5 Hurricane was going to slam into your home, would you stay if you had the opportunity and wherewithal to leave?

[right][post="140820"][/post][/right][/quote]
Again.
Again.
Again.
Repeat.