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2 minutes ago, HOF dan said:

I agree and if you listened to TJ Housh's interview he said the same. John Ross needs to get his confidence back.

I'm with you Ed.......Marvin hurt his potential

When I heard TJ's interview, and this wasn't the first time he's talked on this subject, it was like clarity went off in my head as well as all the things I had been thinking about John Ross' situation, especially as a rookie. I was incredibly irate at the time at Marvin. You just don't do that, and Ross wasn't the first player Lewis was guilty of in this regard. I was a big Marvin Lewis supporter, but this made me crazy how he treated rookies and especially the way he treated Ross. You've invested the #10 draft pick on a kid, and I don't give a fuck if he was you're selection or the owner's , or whatever...you just don't do that to a prospect. A lot of these kids come from underprivileged backgrounds anyway, and have been told all their lives they lack merit. You just don't do that shit. Some are strong enough to overcome it, but I totally understand when a kid isn't. I love Marvin Lewis, but he fucked up and went the wrong direction on John Ross. What Marvin gave him was the opposite of what he needed. 

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5 minutes ago, HOF dan said:

If there was one signature move of Marvin's that I hated, it was his lack of trust in rookies.

Waited on vets too long..

It caused the rooks to sit..

You cant show much when your getting 30-50  snaps for the season ....

I believe he knew he lacked in alot of facets of a head coach..motivation being at top of list..

Remember the shovel approach??.."Just gotta get out their and dig" ...Really coach???

 

 

 

 

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36 minutes ago, claptonrocks said:

Waited on vets too long..

It caused the rooks to sit..

You cant show much when your getting 30-50  snaps for the season ....

I believe he knew he lacked in alot of facets of a head coach..motivation being at top of list..

Remember the shovel approach??.."Just gotta get out their and dig" ...Really coach???

 

 

 

 

Marvin was a management coach, not a development coach. Never wanted to risk showing that.

When his management was exposed as subpar also it got ugly, but he still kept his job for 2 years.

Sure hope Zac takes chances ML never did, he has 5 years to prove himself on the MB timeline.

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8 hours ago, Jupiter Fan said:

Marvin was a management coach, not a development coach. Never wanted to risk showing that.

When his management was exposed as subpar also it got ugly, but he still kept his job for 2 years.

Sure hope Zac takes chances ML never did, he has 5 years to prove himself on the MB timeline.

He will..more than we can anticipate with Katy and Tobins backing..

 

 

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On 4/19/2020 at 3:47 PM, bengaled said:

You don't know that about the 5th year option.  I'd be a helluva lot more willing to bet on him providing offense in his 4th year vs the scrapheap project type WR available after the 3rd round, not to mention that would likely ALSO fuck up our whole draft board even more, were it to transpire. That's just not very logical thinking. You let him play that 4th year out and see what transpires from what you originally invested the 10th pick in the draft in. A lot of John Ross' lack of development sits squarely on Marvin Lewis' shoulders. No one will ever convince me otherwise. He's a player that is likely moving up and it would be absolutely foolish to  trade that out in his 4th year for some 3rd round project rookie WR. 

 

Let's put it like this....for one I am absolutely certain this team isn't ready to do what you and a few misguided others suggest. John Ross will play here this year and that's a virtual given. Let's revisit this in next year's offseason and we take another look at who was right and who was wrong. If it's me, I will gladly eat crow, but I am not worried about that TBH!

 

Actually I do know about the 5th year option. What you don't seem to know is that it has to be exercised prior to the 4th season. The deadline is May 4 this year. Based on what Ross has done in his first 3 years, the team isn't going to give him a 15 mil salary for 2021, that is guaranteed for injury. Nobody else would give him that and the Browns aren't stupid enough to get fleeced by Ross' agent. 

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10 minutes ago, sparky151 said:

 

Actually I do know about the 5th year option. What you don't seem to know is that it has to be exercised prior to the 4th season. The deadline is May 4 this year. Based on what Ross has done in his first 3 years, the team isn't going to give him a 15 mil salary for 2021, that is guaranteed for injury. Nobody else would give him that and the Browns aren't stupid enough to get fleeced by Ross' agent. 

You may be right about that, but do you want to make a bet on whether he's with the team this year?

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23 hours ago, bengaled said:

When a player, especially a WR, doesn't have the trust of his head coach, he presses. When that happens he doesn't look balls into his hands before trying to make a bigger play and the result is a drop. Call me crazy, but I bet this represents a HUGE part of John Ross lack of success. A good coach is a psychiatrist and if there's a nuanced way to coach the best oout of a player, he finds it. Marvin Lewis was a good coach in many ways, but he failed horribly and in all the worst ways with the direction he chose to coach this kid. 

I dunno.  It seems to me that Ross road the bench his rookie year due to injury and his inability to run routes properly.  Also, there doesn't seem to be much history of skill players being drafted high, not doing a whole lot their first few years then all of a sudden getting it year 4.    Great players are usually great day 1.   Good players can be developed over time but the 5th year option on Ross is WAY too high to hope he becomes good.  The other issue is can he stay healthy. 

I don't buy into the Marvin not trusting rookies.  Mixon was drafted in the same year as Ross and got plenty of playing time his rookie season.  Tyler Boyd would not have caught 54 passes his rookie year if Marvin really had it out for rookies.  William Jackson playing a pretty difficult position would not have become the starter later that season either.   Marvin didn't trust bad players or guys who couldn't learn the playbook.    

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3 hours ago, SF2 said:

I dunno.  It seems to me that Ross road the bench his rookie year due to injury and his inability to run routes properly.  Also, there doesn't seem to be much history of skill players being drafted high, not doing a whole lot their first few years then all of a sudden getting it year 4.    Great players are usually great day 1.   Good players can be developed over time but the 5th year option on Ross is WAY too high to hope he becomes good.  The other issue is can he stay healthy. 

I don't buy into the Marvin not trusting rookies.  Mixon was drafted in the same year as Ross and got plenty of playing time his rookie season.  Tyler Boyd would not have caught 54 passes his rookie year if Marvin really had it out for rookies.  William Jackson playing a pretty difficult position would not have become the starter later that season either.   Marvin didn't trust bad players or guys who couldn't learn the playbook.    

Let's see how he does in his fourth year before we start worrying about year five, and yeah, he will be with the team this year.

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3 hours ago, sparky151 said:

Er, I don't think he'll be cut and likely won't be traded. 

 

I'd be happy to bet the team doesn't exercise his 5th year option. 

But earlier you were definitely arguing it would be a good idea to trade him for a third round WR project, so why in the hell are we even talking about his 5th year option, especially after you later agreed you don't think it's likely he'll be cut or traded? So just tell me this, where the hell are you exactly. I'm getting a bit dizzy trying to figure your position out? Or is it that you just enjoy arguing a point you basically don't believe a whole lot in?

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On 4/19/2020 at 5:55 PM, HOF dan said:

If there was one signature move of Marvin's that I hated, it was his lack of trust in rookies.

yep..

 

The one that always stuck out the worst to me was Geno. You could tell he was a beast instantly and he was getting so few snaps.

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3 hours ago, bengaled said:

Let's see how he does in his fourth year before we start worrying about year five, and yeah, he will be with the team this year.

That isn’t how it works.  The Bengals have to exercise the option in a few weeks, not during the season.  He would need to have a great season for the Bengals to sign him to a new contract. 

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14 hours ago, bengaled said:

But earlier you were definitely arguing it would be a good idea to trade him for a third round WR project, so why in the hell are we even talking about his 5th year option, especially after you later agreed you don't think it's likely he'll be cut or traded? So just tell me this, where the hell are you exactly. I'm getting a bit dizzy trying to figure your position out? Or is it that you just enjoy arguing a point you basically don't believe a whole lot in?

 

I think Ross is an asset who can be traded for a better player at a position of greater need. He could be part of a trade for an O-lineman like Jackson or Thuney or Williams.

But I doubt our front office is capable of pulling it off. So I think he'll be here for 2020 and likely gone in 2021, looking for a new start somewhere else. 

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1 hour ago, I_C_Deadpeople said:

Does Ross not have a $9M salary this season? Or at least that amount of cap hit if cut or traded. The thinking would be for that amount of 'dead' money you might as well try and use him. 

We only take the cap hit if cut. If we trade the cap goes with him 

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8 minutes ago, claptonrocks said:

Dont think a team wants that hit due to his production...

We re just Hoping he finally shines a light but its only a flicker right now...

I am having a lot of hope for this kid, still. I'm expecting him to breakout in a way most are not expecting.

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