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* ROUND 1, BENGALS SELECT JOE BURROW, QB */Burrow Era


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1 hour ago, kennethmw said:

I truly don't have a single fuck to give about PFF and their ratings.  ESPECIALLY when it comes to line play.  So save that shit.

 

And Yes, Jamey, I did think HART played better at the end of the year, and may be serviceable as a RT.  

Is there any way to see their rankings over the second half of the season?

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2 hours ago, kennethmw said:

I truly don't have a single fuck to give about PFF and their ratings.  ESPECIALLY when it comes to line play.  So save that shit.

 

And Yes, Jamey, I did think HART played better at the end of the year, and may be serviceable as a RT.  

Well we disagree

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Bobby Hart has no business being a starter for any NFL team. He also isn't worth his current salary as a backup anywhere. But the Bengals business model abhors signing players from other teams so when he's the only tackle they are negotiating with, they overpay him to get his signature.  CJ Uzomah and Gio Bernard are much better players than Hart but also examples of this phenomenon. 

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As to Hart:  Cutting him would free up $2.8 mil. So if you can sign a better OT for that then it's a no brainer. For instance former Bengal standout  Cedric Ogbuehi made less than $1 Mil last year and is available; I'd take him over Hart.

 

As to the starting RT: Fred Johnson

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4 hours ago, bfine said:

As to Hart:  Cutting him would free up $2.8 mil. So if you can sign a better OT for that then it's a no brainer. For instance former Bengal standout  Cedric Ogbuehi made less than $1 Mil last year and is available; I'd take him over Hart.

 

As to the starting RT: Fred Johnson

No thanks to recycling Ogbuehi or Andre Smith. We should look for upgrades from Hart in free agency. I'd sign a starting caliber RT who is decent, maybe Conklin, with Fred J as backup. On the left side, pencil Jonah in as starting LT, move or cut Cordy, and draft someone like Trey Adams in round 3.

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11 hours ago, bfine said:

As to Hart:  Cutting him would free up $2.8 mil. So if you can sign a better OT for that then it's a no brainer. For instance former Bengal standout  Cedric Ogbuehi made less than $1 Mil last year and is available; I'd take him over Hart.

 

As to the starting RT: Fred Johnson

No way you bring Cedric back here.  The other guys don’t want to see him again. 

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Tobin has been actually talking this week, Cincy Jungle sight has various articles and a short podcast. Athletic also had some info his yapping. Some snippets:

 

Here, I want to break out five answers given by Tobin over the course of our 58-minute sit-down and analyze what they mean in specifics and could turn into going forward.

1. On whether there is a point at which he changes the philosophy on free agency this year because of being in a place with a new coaching staff that has pinpointed where the major holes exist:

“Sure. But we’re not going to force it, though. That’s the thing. The free agent that fits us, that is good for us, that is what we want: has to be available, has to be interested in us, has to fit within our structure that we have in place with other players. If there is a good fit there, we’ll go after it. But it doesn’t always marry up with our needs and what free agency offers to the Bengals. It doesn’t always marry up. But we’ll look to fill in areas where we think we can. There will be targeted areas as we go. We’ll have a lot of discussions with agents as we go. We’ll see ranges players are going and how that fits within our salary structure. We’ll have a little more clarity about the players that we have under contract, what we’ll have available as we go as well. When we start making decisions about the draft and stuff, some other things might fall into place that would define our situation a little more. But it’s not just, ‘Oh, you can fix that with free agency,’ because it might not be there in free agency the way you want it. It might not be there. You don’t just bring in a guy, overpay him, and then he doesn’t produce in that role and then you’re in the same spot, just with less capital to improve the situation.”

Bengals fans’ eyes roll collectively at this one. They so badly want free agents, and the team’s view on how to employ that method of roster building just isn’t going to change. The last line might as well be on the wall of the weight room right next to “Iron Sharpens Iron.”

But while most might take this as a dismissal of free agency, I didn’t hear that necessarily. Any aggressiveness in free agency for this team would always involve pinpointed aggressiveness. One or two specific fits. And when discussing that concept, Tobin says, “If there is a good fit, we’ll go after it.”

I do believe there’s hope in that. I followed up that answer with a question about whether the team was more willing to dive into free agency this year, and he pointed out there is willingness every year but “our roster needs help.” The Bengals need additions on all three levels of defense and offensive line, which Tobin even mentioned specifically in this conversation. They have seven draft picks. Six after Joe Burrow. That isn’t getting it done.

Point being, it might end up more of the same in the free-agency department for the Bengals. A big splash from them wouldn’t be the same as a big splash for other teams. But I don’t think it was dismissive of the concept.

 

5. On why they didn’t trade at the deadline:

“The draft pick is not just a draft pick. It’s an actual player, and that player is an unproven NFL player. And you’re giving up a proven NFL player for an unproven NFL player. Maybe that guy will develop. Maybe he’ll develop quickly, or maybe he’ll develop slowly. You know what you have here. If this guy is a high-level football player, I’m taking him for our football team because I know what he is. I can’t predict injuries — nobody can. It’s unfortunate that maybe our best player was hurt all year and our first-round pick got hurt and didn’t play all year. I can’t predict that stuff. But I know what A.J. Green is. I know what Geno Atkins is. The pick that you’re talking about, now, you might get a good player there and we’re gonna try to get good players with every pick, but you can look at everybody’s draft, and that guy didn’t work out, that guy didn’t work out and that guy didn’t work out. I understand the school of thought. If you have a proven guy, it’s better to stay with the proven guy so he can continue to produce, and we think those guys can continue to produce.”

I wrote about this organizational philosophy back at the deadline. During the season especially, they aren’t going to trade players they plan on keeping into the future for picks. Teams asking for Green or Atkins weren’t going to make much headway. They very much stand by “a bird in the hand’s worth two in the bush.” It tangentially connects to the free-agency discussion above. For the Bengals, a proven, known quantity they want to keep makes for a safer allocation of money to create a roster of peak value, rather than riskier plays in free agency or draft picks.

I’m not here to tell you that philosophy is right, wrong or indifferent, but it’s where they resolutely stand. Tobin made it clear.

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2 hours ago, Jamie_B said:

Ogbuehi is not an upgrade from Heart, not even for less money would I consider that. Worst pick we ever made under Marvin Lewis. Hard Pass. 

He was in on 14% of all the Jaguar's offensive snaps and his snap count per game decreased substantially as the season progressed.  The Panthers fell for his high draft slot thinking he would finally get it but obviously, he didn't.  Keep in mind Jacksonville's line is almost as bad as ours was.   He is that bad. 

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1 hour ago, I_C_Deadpeople said:

Great article. Thanks for posting.

 

The only thing that concerns me is that they are still looking at Tua. I don't want another 1st round pick, let alone a 1st pick in the draft that is coming off of injury. 

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5 hours ago, SF2 said:

No way you bring Cedric back here.  The other guys don’t want to see him again. 

Simply providing an example of a player that would cost and 1/3 of what Hart would and could be just as valuable. For folks that take any stock in PFF; Ced's 67 would have been the highest on our team. I want no part of either as a starter and think it might come down to a battle between Johnson and Glenn for the starting RT gig

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21 minutes ago, sparky151 said:

Tobin is doing Hobson's work of preparing the fans for disappointment.  They're going to give us Burrow to get excited about. Fixing the O-line or defense would be too much to expect.

Oh I have no doubt they'll be mostly drafting for the defense but as far as signing FA's for the D or OL....why would any decent player that has a choice want to come here and play? 

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3 minutes ago, spicoli said:

Oh I have no doubt they'll be mostly drafting for the defense but as far as signing FA's for the D or OL....why would any decent player that has a choice want to come here and play? 

I can see your point in this.  Bringing in a number 1 overall pick, such as Burrow, may attract outside free agents.  Thing is, i dont believe its necessarily the players at fault.  Its much more on the management of this team.  For example, i actually think they had a real shot at Shaq Barrett last year during free agency.  It is my understanding, they found something in his medical and didnt offer him what was originally 2yrs/$14 million dollars.  He ended up in Tampa and had an excellent year and made the pro bowl.  Just making that signing right there would have not obviously only made the defense better, but it would have opened plenty more options this year in the draft not having to look for one.  

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5 minutes ago, SouthPaw said:

I can see your point in this.  Bringing in a number 1 overall pick, such as Burrow, may attract outside free agents though.  Thing is, i dont believe its necessarily the players at fault.  Its much more on the management of this team.  For example, i actually think they had a real shot at Shaq Barrett last year during free agency.  It is my understanding, they found something in his medical and didnt offer him what was originally 2yrs/$14 million dollars.  He ended up in Tampa and had an excellent year and made the pro bowl.  Just making that signing right there would have not obviously only made the defense better, but it would have opened plenty more options this year in the draft not having to look for one.  

For the record, his deal with Tampa was 1yr/4 million. Maybe he took what he could get after the bad publicity he got after his MRI with Bengals, but Cincinnati's offer was significantly better.  

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I just don't see any decent FA's signing here even if they overpay. Why in the world would they want to come to this black hole of a franchise?

 

And I can't imagine Joe Burrow making much of a difference, at least not initially. Maybe in a few years if he proves to be a difference maker. 

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The shame of it is that it's entirely self-inflicted. If Mike Brown's death grip could be pried off the team, he might find himself the owner of a winning franchise. I could easily see Katie and Troy happy to collect checks from a successful team run by professionals instead of trying to do everything themselves.

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"We'll see ranges players are going" says it all. IOW they'll let other teams set the market with the top FA's & then go bargain shopping among the leftovers.

 

Honorable mention to "you don't just bring in a guy, overpay him, and then he doesn't produce in that role" like that doesn't describe half his roster. It's true they don't just bring in a guy, though. They scout him minimally, draft him, watch him not produce for a few years & only then do they overpay him. There's a system.

 

Mike Brown loves Duke Tobin because they both have the same qualifications for their job; being the son of someone that was competent.

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