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Catfish Bob

* ROUND 1, BENGALS SELECT JOE BURROW, QB */Burrow Era

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1 hour ago, bengaled said:

Listen to the interview.

I got 20 minutes in, and didn't hear any bashing :shrug:

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https://theathletic.com/1757132/2020/04/19/nfl-draft-best-values-players-to-watch-bruce-feldman/

 

When it comes to quarterbacks, there are no sure things. The closest I’ve seen in two decades-plus of covering college football was when Andrew Luck came out of Stanford. But count me in though as a big believer in LSU’s Joe Burrow.

I get that he doesn’t have a huge throwing arm like a Josh Allen or Jacob Eason. I wouldn’t worry about that. Burrow is exemplary in almost every other category. His football IQ, according to his coaches, is off the charts. His ability to navigate the pocket and make positive plays out of potential disaster is remarkable. I love his poise and his toughness. People at LSU rave about those things to a degree I’ve not heard coaches talk about another quarterback in college. He’s very accurate, has touch and great field vision, throws with anticipation and has quick enough feet to do some damage in the run game.

The numbers he put up in leading LSU to the national title were unparalleled, throwing 60 touchdowns and just six INTs. He completed more than 76 percent of his passes and did so while facing more top teams than any QB who has ever played in college football. LSU was 11-1 against Top-10 opponents with him. This is a guy who truly thrives under pressure. That is rare.

Burrow’s final numbers in LSU’s three postseason games: 17 touchdown passes, zero INTs. The combined stats of the opposing quarterbacks in those three games — Georgia’s Jake Fromm, Oklahoma’s Jalen Hurts and Clemson’s Trevor Lawrence — were one TD pass, three interceptions. In the title game against Clemson, Burrow led LSU to four touchdowns on five trips inside the 20 against a team that had only allowed 10 touchdowns in the red zone in its previous 14 games.

I got to spend the last month of the season inside with LSU and was in many of their meetings. That team fed off his energy and confidence. He was a program-changer, and that pretty much was the case from the moment he showed up in Baton Rouge. He bet on himself and won big. To me, this comment his coach, Ed Orgeron made the night before the national title game, pretty much sums up how people on Joe Burrow’s team felt about him:

“Other teams’ quarterbacks get hit and they bitch,” he said. “Our quarterback gets hit and I’m happy because I know he’s pissed off, and he’s bringing hell with him. That’s the mindset.”

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Dan Hoard did a breakdown on his podcast about QB's who were drafted #1 overall.  In the last 22 years there have been 16 QB's who went first.  Interesting that prior to 1998 QB's were much less frequently picked in the top spot.  The overall success rate by breakdown shows how those careers played out.  Some careers were marred by injuries and other circumstances impacted a few (i.e. expansion franchises, dog fighting). 

 

Great/Good:  Peyton, Palmer, Eli, Cam, Luck?

Mediocre:  Vick, Alex Smith, Stafford, Goff

Bad/Bust:  Couch, Carr, Russell, Bradford, Jameis

Jury Out:  Baker, Murray

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Winston is not a bust, he is mediocre.  

Stafford is a good QB on a total shit hole of an organization that for some reason gets treated with respect.  The Lions have 3 playoff appearances in 20 years all loses yet Cincinnati is the dysfunctional horrible organization.

Palmer was good or great?  1 entire playoff win?   1-3 in the playoffs with a 66 rating?  Give me a break. 

 

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1 hour ago, spicoli said:

I think I would switch Cam and Stafford on that list..

Cam has an MVP and lead his team to a Super Bowl.  Stafford has superior stats, though.

 

Winston is currently out of a job, got benched in 2018 for Ryan Fitzmagic, and just set the single season INT record.  He also never made the playoffs in 5 years.  That's not mediocre to me.

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In my mind, I can't put Vick in mediocre. He was for sure when he got out of the clink, but he was terrifying to watch pre-conviction.

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46 minutes ago, Inigo Montoya said:

Cam has an MVP and lead his team to a Super Bowl.  Stafford has superior stats, though.

 

Winston is currently out of a job, got benched in 2018 for Ryan Fitzmagic, and just set the single season INT record.  He also never made the playoffs in 5 years.  That's not mediocre to me.

The single season INT record is 42 set by George Blanda in a 14 game season.   Winston was suspended for 3 games in 2018 and also had an ACL sprain, he wasn't benched.   Yeah, Tampa hasn't made the playoffs because their front office is worst than ours and the Lions.   BTW, they have had the 3rd ranked offense the last 2 years probably because their defense is so bad.   They allowed 29 points a game.  Winston and Fitzmagic had no choice but to throw it 50 times a game.  Also,  Fitzmagic had more ints and a higher int rate than Winston last year, in fact, Fitzmagic led the league with the highest int% last year. 

 

 But don't worry, they just signed a 43 year old QB to be the future of the franchise IN THE NFC South so its all good. 

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44 minutes ago, Cat said:

In my mind, I can't put Vick in mediocre. He was for sure when he got out of the clink, but he was terrifying to watch pre-conviction.

Vick's highlight reel is great, but his every week production was average at best.

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Jameis got benched mid game against the Bengals in 2018.  Did you even watch?  Fitzmagic almost led a huge comeback.  He only started 9 games that year.  Any way you slice it Jameis is a turnover machine.  In 72 games he's got 88 interceptions and 18 fumbles lost (50 total fumbles).  Again, I would say his play has been more bad than mediocre.   Other than yards his stats are underwhelming.

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2 hours ago, SF2 said:

Winston is not a bust, he is mediocre.  

Stafford is a good QB on a total shit hole of an organization that for some reason gets treated with respect.  The Lions have 3 playoff appearances in 20 years all loses yet Cincinnati is the dysfunctional horrible organization.

Palmer was good or great?  1 entire playoff win?   1-3 in the playoffs with a 66 rating?  Give me a break. 

 

I think Detroit gets 'pity' respect - they always seem to try and make moves to build a solid organization but always fail. So points for trying kind of thing whereas The Brown family is seen as -  well we all know. 

 

The rankings should have separated Great from Good. If you are picking a QB at #1 you are expecting them to be Great. 

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1 hour ago, Inigo Montoya said:

Cam has an MVP and lead his team to a Super Bowl.  Stafford has superior stats, though.

 

Winston is currently out of a job, got benched in 2018 for Ryan Fitzmagic, and just set the single season INT record.  He also never made the playoffs in 5 years.  That's not mediocre to me.

Cam had a good year.  Other than that he's a weird dude who had amazing physical abilities, but couldn't bond or lead his teammates. 

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Not that we want to re-live the Akili time, but this article has some interesting comments:

 

https://theathletic.com/1759931/2020/04/20/this-week-in-bengals-how-1999-trade-debacle-set-precedent-for-joe-burrow/

 

It’s not about the trade, it’s about the evaluation. If your evaluation is dreadful, you end up looking like the Bengals.

Bruce Coslet recalled how that went wrong for the series Jim Owczarski and I did looking back at the first 50 years of team history three years ago for The Enquirer.

“The year before Kenny Anderson and I worked out every quarterback in the country from Peyton Manning to Akili Smith to Donovan McNabb,” Coslet said. “There were a whole bunch of ‘em that came out that year. And by far Akili was at the bottom of our list. I can still remember the coach, I want to say his name was Mike Riley, his coach in college, I can still remember Kenny Anderson and I sitting in his office and we flat asked him, ‘Why did Akili only play one year?’ And Riley said the reason is that I couldn’t trust him. Well, that was a big red flag for me. Then we drafted him anyway.”

Because he was the quarterback. That he was awful and the Bengals should have known it is what makes passing on the trade so egregious, not necessarily the act of saying no to valuable picks.

“You are 100 percent correct,” Polian said. “Whether it’s the Bengals or anyone else, the idea that draft currency and moving around and – a phrase that used to drive me batty, ‘value for the pick’ – it means nothing. In the end, it’s about how did you evaluate the player and how did he play for you.”

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CP was just on Sirius NFL radio, said JB should be excited to be going to the Bengals given the free agency spending but the team has to keep the progress going. 

 

He spoke about how Arizona had such a better overall organization, built to try and win. 

 

But again mentioned the team has made some good changes but needs to keep moving forward. 

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5 hours ago, I_C_Deadpeople said:

Not that we want to re-live the Akili time, but this article has some interesting comments:

 

https://theathletic.com/1759931/2020/04/20/this-week-in-bengals-how-1999-trade-debacle-set-precedent-for-joe-burrow/

 

It’s not about the trade, it’s about the evaluation. If your evaluation is dreadful, you end up looking like the Bengals.

Bruce Coslet recalled how that went wrong for the series Jim Owczarski and I did looking back at the first 50 years of team history three years ago for The Enquirer.

“The year before Kenny Anderson and I worked out every quarterback in the country from Peyton Manning to Akili Smith to Donovan McNabb,” Coslet said. “There were a whole bunch of ‘em that came out that year. And by far Akili was at the bottom of our list. I can still remember the coach, I want to say his name was Mike Riley, his coach in college, I can still remember Kenny Anderson and I sitting in his office and we flat asked him, ‘Why did Akili only play one year?’ And Riley said the reason is that I couldn’t trust him. Well, that was a big red flag for me. Then we drafted him anyway.”

Because he was the quarterback. That he was awful and the Bengals should have known it is what makes passing on the trade so egregious, not necessarily the act of saying no to valuable picks.

“You are 100 percent correct,” Polian said. “Whether it’s the Bengals or anyone else, the idea that draft currency and moving around and – a phrase that used to drive me batty, ‘value for the pick’ – it means nothing. In the end, it’s about how did you evaluate the player and how did he play for you.”

That article was maddening to re-read.

 

Quote

“We didn’t make the right choices on a quarterback,” Bengals owner and president Mike Brown said. “Some of it was just bad luck.

Was it? Which part of that was bad luck? Drafting a run and shoot quarterback with slower receivers and a rapidly aging offensive line? Or the guy that the head coach and qb coach didn't want, and you drafted him anyway?

 

Quote

“They benched me for those last four games because they probably were keeping up on my incentives and things of that nature,” Smith said.

What was the incentive? Having a pulse and being on the field at the same time? You couldn't complete a pass!

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3 hours ago, membengal said:

 

Good information to know.

20 yards is about as far as John Ross can run without pulling up lame

or stopping to ask the cornerback covering him for directions.

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5 minutes ago, High School Harry said:

Good information to know.

20 yards is about as far as John Ross can run without pulling up lame

or stopping to ask the cornerback covering him for directions.

He asked Dre for directions in practice..

That was a huge mistake..

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