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Who is primarily at fault for the Dying and Chaos


Guest BlackJesus

Who is primarily at fault for the Dying and Chaos in New Orleans ?  

21 members have voted

  1. 1. Who is primarily at fault for the Dying and Chaos in New Orleans ?

    • PRESIDENT BUSH & HIS ADMINISTRATION
      5
    • THE MAYOR, GOVERNOR, or SENATORS of LOUISIANA
      16


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Guest BlackJesus

[img]http://www.abolkhaseb.net/images/3loj/images/bush-dumb_jpg.jpg[/img]


:rant: [b]- Stayed on Vacation till Thursday (then again "My Pet Goat" showed that he likes to wait till his piss dries)
- Played Golf on Wed while on vacation in Arizona while Kids drown
- Was playing Guitar on vacation Tues as the city flooded
- Cut the needed 14 billion for the Levees that the Governor asked for and only provided $ 540 million)
- Has sent 40 % of the LA Guard to Baghdad to play War over false claims
- Put his Lawyer Buddy Chertoff in charge of FEMA who has no experience
- Has Declared Martial Law in New Orleans and so the Troops now won't let anyone leave the city on foot and won't let anyone enter.... thus leaving the people locked in the city to die without food
- The People were told to go to the Convention Center and food would be arriving on Monday.... on Friday FEMA appointed director Chertoff said that he had forgot about those needing food thus they waited 5 days to get federal supplies while locked in the convention center... they had to start stacking the dead on the 2nd floor of the center and in the refrigerators.
- The Mayor of NO is an ex republican who has told Bush to get off his ass... and thus Bush is not providing him what he needs
- The Fed govt made Public service announcements about the flood danger because of the unfinished levees.... and today Bush said he was unaware that the Levees were not complete, even though he cut their funding and sent that $$$ to Iraq

[u]As for the rest of the Administration[/u]
- Cheney is still on vacation fishing in Wyoming (nowhere to be found)
- Condi Rice was found shopping on 5th avenue buying 20,000 $ in Shoes on Wed, when a buyer told her "how dare you shop while people drown, go help out" the ladie was removed, and then Condi went to see a Monty Python Play (Spam A Lot)
- The Speaker of the House Denny Hastert said Thursday that we should not even rebuild the city of New Orleans
- The Republican Congress = is on Vacation and still is
- The Republican Senate = is on vacation and still is [/b]


[i]“The good news is -- and it's hard for some to see it now -- that out of this chaos is going to come a fantastic Gulf Coast, like it was before. Out of the rubbles of Trent Lott's house -- he's lost his entire house -- there's going to be a fantastic house. And I'm looking forward to sitting on the porch.” (Laughter.)[/i]
[b]--- President Bush, Friday 2 pm Speech in Mississippi[/b]



[i]"I am not looking forward to this trip"[/i]
[b]--- President Bush, Friday Morning[/b]



[i]"The critical thing was to get people out of there before the disaster. Some people chose not to obey that order. That was a mistake on their part."[/i]
[b]--- Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff, on the today show[/b]


[b] WHERE WERE YOU ON AUG 30TH WHILE THOUSANDS OF AMERICANS DIED ???[/b] :contract:
[img]http://i.a.cnn.net/cnn/2005/WEATHER/08/30/katrina.neworleans/story.new.orleans.1.ap.jpg[/img][img]http://hughesforamerica.typepad.com/hughes_for_america/images/capt.capm10208301856.bush__capm102.jpg[/img]
[img]http://i.a.cnn.net/cnn/2005/WEATHER/08/30/katrina.neworleans/story.new.orleans.3.ap.jpg[/img][img]http://www.topplebush.com/humor/Bush_Golf_2004-06-02.jpg[/img]




:bullhorn: [quote]In 2001 when Bush took Office... The Federal Emergency Management Agency ranked the potential damage to New Orleans as among the three likeliest, most castastrophic disasters facing this country. The other two? A massive earthquake in San Francisco, and, prophetically, a terrorist attack on New York City.[/quote]

[color="red"]Bush Response from a prophetic January Article from this year....[/color]

[url="http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4200/is_20050606/ai_n14657367"]http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_...06/ai_n14657367[/url]
[quote]In fiscal year 2006, the New Orleans district of the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers is bracing for a record $71.2 million reduction in federal funding.

It would be the largest single-year funding loss ever for the New Orleans district, Corps officials said.

I've been here over 30 years and I've never seen this level of reduction, said Al Naomi, project manager for the New Orleans district. I think part of the problem is it's not so much the reduction, it's the drastic reduction in one fiscal year. It's the immediacy of the reduction that I think is the hardest thing to adapt to.

There is an economic ripple effect, too. The cuts mean major hurricane and flood protection projects will not be awarded to local engineering firms. Also, a study to determine ways to protect the region from a Category 5 hurricane has been shelved for now.[/quote]

[quote]In general, funding for construction has been on a downward trend for the past several years, said Marcia Demma, chief of the New Orleans Corps' programs management branch.
In 2001, the New Orleans district spent $147 million on construction projects. When fiscal year 2005 wraps up Sept. 30, the Corps expects to have spent $82 million, a 44.2 percent reduction from 2001 expenditures. [...]

Unfunded projects include widening drainage canals, flood- proofing bridges and building pumping stations in Orleans and Jefferson parishes. The Corps also wants to build levees in unprotected areas on the West Bank.[/quote]

[b]Other Ways that he was negligent... and incompetent in Preparedness....[/b]

[quote]Disaster Mitigation Programs Slashed Since 2001. Since 2001, key federal disaster mitigation programs, developed over many years, have been slashed and tossed aside. FEMA’s Project Impact, a model mitigation program created by the Clinton administration, has been canceled outright. Federal funding of post-disaster mitigation efforts designed to protect people and property from the next disaster has been cut in half, and now communities across the country must compete for pre-disaster mitigation dollars. [Baltimore City Paper, 9/29/04][/quote]

[quote]Bush Continuing To Propose Cuts To Army Corps of Engineers. The Army Corps of Engineers will be cut in 2006. Bush’s 2005 budget proposal called for a 13 percent reduction in the Army Corps of Engineers’ budget, down to $4 billion from $4.6 billion in fiscal 2004. [Associated Press, 2/6/05; Congressional Quarterly Online, 2/3/04][/quote]


[quote]States Expected To Shoulder More Of The Burden In Emergency Management With Fewer Funds. “The federal focus on terrorism preparedness has left states with an increased responsibility to provide support for natural disasters and emergencies,” noted a report released by the National Emergency Management Association (NEMA) this summer. “State budget shortfalls have given emergency management programs less to work with, at a time when more is expected of them. In fiscal year 2004, the average budget for a state emergency management agency was $40.8 million, a 23 percent reduction from fiscal year 2003.” [Gambit Weekly, 9/28/04][/quote]

[quote]Bush Opposed Necessary Funding For Hurricane Preparedness In Louisiana. The Louisiana congressional delegation urged Congress earlier this year to dedicate a stream of federal money to Louisiana's coast, only to be opposed by the White House. Ultimately a deal was struck to steer $540 million to the state over four years. The total coast of coastal repair work is estimated to be $14 billion. In its budget, the Bush administration also had proposed a significant reduction in funding for southeast Louisiana's chief hurricane protection project. Bush proposed $10.4 million, a sixth of what local officials say they need. [Newhouse News Service, 8/31/05][/quote]

[quote]Republican Budget Cut New Orleans’ Army Corps Of Engineers Funding By A Record $71.2 Million. In fiscal year 2006, the New Orleans district of the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers is bracing for a record $71.2 million reduction in federal funding. It would be the largest single-year funding loss ever for the New Orleans district, Corps officials said. “I've been here over 30 years and I've never seen this level of reduction,” said Al Naomi, project manager for the New Orleans district. The cuts mean major hurricane and flood protection projects will not be awarded to local engineering firms. Money is so tight the New Orleans district instituted a hiring freeze. The freeze is the first of its kind in about 10 years, said Marcia Demma, chief of the Corps' Programs Management Branch. [New Orleans City Business, 6/6/05][/quote]

[quote]Landrieu Called Bush’s Funding Priorities Shortsided. Landrieu said the Bush Administration is not making Corps of Engineers funding a priority. “I think it's extremely shortsighted,” Landrieu said. “When the Corps of Engineers' budget is cut, Louisiana bleeds. These projects are literally life-and-death projects to the people of south Louisiana and they are (of) vital economic interest to the entire nation.” [New Orleans City Business, 6/6/05][/quote]

[quote]Emergency Preparedness Director Furious With Project Cuts. A study to determine ways to protect the region from a Category 5 hurricane has been shelved for now. Terry Tullier, the New Orleans emergency preparedness director, said he was furious but not surprised to hear that study had been cut from the Bush budget. “I’m all for the war effort, but every time I think about the $87 billion being spent on rebuilding Iraq, I ask: What about us?” he said. “Somehow we need to make a stronger case that this is not Des Moines, Iowa, that we are so critical that if it hits the fan in New Orleans, everything this side of the Rockies will feel the economic shock waves.” [Times-Picayune, 9/22/04; New Orleans City Business, 6/6/05]
________________________

Flood Protection Projects Put On Hold Because Of Republican’s 2006 Budget. One of the hardest-hit areas of the New Orleans district's budget is the Southeast Louisiana Urban Flood Control Project. SELA's budget is being drained from $36.5 million awarded in 2005 to $10.4 million suggested for 2006 by the House of Representatives and the president. The Army Corps of Engineers in New Orleans has identified $35 million in projects to build and improve levees, floodwalls and pumping stations in St. Bernard, Orleans, Jefferson and St. Charles parishes. Those projects in a line item where funding is scheduled to be cut from $5.7 million this year to $2.9 million in 2006. “We don't have the money to put the work in the field, and that's the problem,” Naomi said. [New Orleans City Business, 6/6/05]
_________________________

Louisiana National Guard Said Before Katrina That It Needed Equipment Back From Iraq If It Is To Respond To A Natural Disaster. “The National Guard needs that equipment back home to support the homeland security mission,” said Lt. Colonel Pete Schneider with the LA National Guard. “You've got combatant commanders over there who need it they say they need it, they don't want to lose what they h ave, and we certainly understand that it's a matter of us educating that combatant commander, we need it back here as well,” Col. Schneider said. [ABC 26 WGNO, 8/1/05]
__________________________
Coast Guard Faced With Helicopter Problems. The head of the US Coast Guard told Congress his equipment is failing at unacceptable rates. Despite increases in spending on maintenance, the agency's older large craft -- called cutters -- experience equipment failures capable of ruining a mission almost 50 percent of the time, according to Coast Guard officials. Further, the agency's HH-65 helicopters suffered a rate of 329 mishaps per 100,000 flight hours in 2004, way over the Federal Aviation Administration's acceptable standard of 1 mishap per 100,000 hours. [UPI, 6/10/05; USA Today, 7/6/05][/quote]


[b]The Hurricane did Not Flood New Orleans.... there was a 5% Hole in the Levee system that was unfinished because Bush pulled the funding and knew New Orleans would be vulnerable.... thus that hole just like in a bowl of cereal floating in the tub Sunk and all the poor, old, and blacks went down with it....... But Bush did give a Tax Cut to Billionaires and CEO pay went up 33 % Last Year [img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons//36.gif[/img] [/b]


[b][color="purple"]Oh yeah... Also Don't worry !!!
Pres. Bush returned from Vacation Friday and saw an oppurtunity to use a "recess appointment" on Friday to name Alice Fisher to head the Justice Dept's criminal division. She was being blocked under questions about helping authorizing torture at Guantanamo...... and Bush decided to get her in before the Senate returns :angry:
Priorities Baby :thumbsup: [/color][/b]


[color="red"][b]CASE CLOSED --- I DONT WANT IMPEACHMENT.... I WANT A COUP AND A PUBLIC HANGING [/color][/b]

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Guest oldschooler
THE MAYOR, GOVERNOR, AND SENATORS of LOUISIANA
^
|
|
|
|
These people were elected to take care of the people
of Louisiana and to ALWAYS keep the the people of
Louisiana`s best interest at heart.


Listen I am OUTRAGED about all of this shit too.
I`m not giving Bush a free pass or patting him on the back
for this embarrassing debacle. But He declared Louisiana
a Natural Disaster area before the storm even hit though.
He left it up to FEMA and the local Governments to take
care of THEIR PEOPLE. They failed them miserably.

They had DAYS to plan for the search and rescue effort.
The Louisiana Governor has the power over the Louisiana
Nation Guard. New Orleans' Mayor is a joke. He only went
off on the Federal Government went it was obvious that HE
had lost control of HIS Police Officers, Fire Fighters and other
social servers.

During 9/11 the New York City/State Government handled most
of the search and rescue...they made sure that their people
were taken care of and were considered Heroes...New Orleans
City/State Government folded like a cheap tent...I saw more Cops
looting than I did saving people...
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[quote name='oldschooler' date='Sep 3 2005, 07:08 AM']THE MAYOR, GOVERNOR, AND SENATORS of LOUISIANA
^
|
|
|
|
These people were elected to take care of the people
of Louisiana and to ALWAYS keep the the people of
Louisiana`s best interest at heart.
Listen I am OUTRAGED about all of this shit too.
I`m not giving Bush a free pass or patting him on the back
for this embarrassing debacle. But He declared Louisiana
a Natural Disaster area before the storm even hit though.
He left it up to FEMA and the local Governments to take
care of THEIR PEOPLE. They failed them miserably.

They had DAYS to plan for the search and rescue effort.
The Louisiana Governor has the power over the Louisiana
Nation Guard. New Orleans' Mayor is a joke. He only went
off on the Federal Government went it was obvious that HE
had lost control of HIS Police Officers, Fire Fighters and other
social servers.

During 9/11 the New York City/State Government handled most
of the search and rescue...they made sure that their people
were taken care of and were considered Heroes...New Orleans
City/State Government folded like a cheap tent...I saw more Cops
looting than I did saving people...
[right][post="141293"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote]

In NY, only a section of the city was destroyed.. It was horrible..

But in NO... THE WHOLE DAMN CITY was pretty much wiped oput.. No power, no cell phone towers.. [b]NOTHING[/b]

There is a HUGE difference.

The head had been severed from the neck.. The police officers don't even have communications with other precincts.. let alone anything from the top..

It is chaos, it is total destruction...

It is up to the state and federal governments to intervene and restore order, provide aid. Serve the people.
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Guest oldschooler
[quote name='Lucid' date='Sep 3 2005, 06:46 AM']In NY, only a section of the city was destroyed.. It was horrible..

But in NO... THE WHOLE DAMN CITY was pretty much wiped oput.. No power, no cell phone towers.. [b]NOTHING[/b]

There is a HUGE difference.

The head had been severed from the neck.. The police officers don't even have communications with other precincts.. let alone anything from the top..

It is chaos, it is total destruction...

It is up to the state and federal governments to intervene and restore order, provide aid.  Serve the people.
[right][post="141304"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote]


And there was no warning for the 9/11 attacks either.
They had DAYS to plan for the Hurricane. To me THAT
is a HUGE difference.

So you`re laying ALL the blame on the Federal Government ?
I think it STARTED at the State and local levels.
Yes the Feds waited to long...and it shouldn`t have grown to
the level that it did...but the people under the Feds fucked up
royally.
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[quote name='oldschooler' date='Sep 3 2005, 08:03 AM']And there was no warning for the 9/11 attacks either.
They had DAYS to plan for the Hurricane. To me THAT
is a HUGE difference.

So you`re laying ALL the blame on the Federal Government ?
I think it STARTED at the State and local levels.
Yes the Feds waited to long...and it shouldn`t have grown to
the level that it did...but the people under the Feds fucked up
royally.
[right][post="141316"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote]


Everyone fucked up royally..

Federally, funds were being cut... That has to shoulder that blame.. Studies had been done predicting that this was inevitable..

Hell, I have had conversations with friends about this very thing accuring in the past couple years.

Requests were made to prevent it, but it never happened on a [b]Federal Level[/b]. Everyone who shares blame needs to share the fucking blame.. And I think that the administration needs to shoulder some of it.
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Guest BlackJesus
[quote]So you`re laying ALL the blame on the Federal Government ?[/quote]

[i][b]Old the Question is "Primarily" sure there were mistakes abound.... but the largest ones and roots of many were at the very top [/b][/i]
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Guest BlackJesus
From CNN this morning ....

[quote]Nine stockpiles of fire-and-rescue equipment strategically placed around the country to be used in the event of a catastrophe still have not been pressed into service in New Orleans, five days after Hurricane Katrina, CNN has learned.[/quote]
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Guest oldschooler
[quote name='Lucid' date='Sep 3 2005, 07:06 AM']Everyone fucked up royally..

Federally, funds were being cut... That has to shoulder that blame.. Studies had been done predicting that this was inevitable..

Hell, I have had conversations with friends about this very thing accuring in the past couple years.

Requests were made to prevent it, but it never happened on a [b]Federal Level[/b].  Everyone who shares blame needs to share the fucking blame.. And I think that the administration needs to shoulder some of it.
[right][post="141319"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote]



That area hadn`t been hit by a Hurricane in 40 years.
It was a time bomb through out that period.
To blame it on Bush when there were plenty of other
Presidents and politicians that didn`t take care of the
problem before is asinine. It could have happened to
ANY of them while they were in Office.

And I haven`t said that the Feds aren`t to blame.
I have said that it STARTED going down hill with the
State/Local Governments. They lost control. The Feds
let it go on for to long...But I lay most of the blame where
it STARTED.
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[quote name='oldschooler' date='Sep 3 2005, 08:28 AM']That area hadn`t been hit by a Hurricane in 40 years.
It was a time bomb through out that period.
To blame it on Bush when there were plenty of other
Presidents and politicians that didn`t take care of the
problem before is asinine. It could have happened to
ANY of them while they were in Office.

And I haven`t said that the Feds aren`t to blame.
I have said that it STARTED going down hill with the
State/Local Governments. They lost control. The Feds
let it go on for to long...But I lay most of the blame where
it STARTED.
[right][post="141331"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote]


Actually, there WAS a program put into place by past administations that Bush had been gutting over then past few years...

No, the feds took big steps backwards in this area during the current administration.. And that is stone hard fact.
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Guest BlackJesus
[b]Also to FoxNews and Others -[/b]


[i]"Refugee' calls up to mind people that come from different lands and have to be taken care of. These are American citizens" [/i]
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[quote name='BlackJesus' date='Sep 3 2005, 08:36 AM'][b]Also to FoxNews and Others -[/b]
[i]"Refugee' calls up to mind people that come from different lands and have to be taken care of. These are American citizens" [/i]
[right][post="141336"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote]


I don't mind the term refugee..

It is accurate.

[url="http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=refugee"][b]Refugee[/b][/url]

n : an exile who flees for safety

I don;t believe in sugar coating... Use the language appropriately... I don't think that word is going to make americans feel any less sympathy for the situation... If anything it may be a slap in the face realization of the gravity of what is going on..

We have american refugees in the United States... Hello!
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Guest BlackJesus
[i][b]Lucid.... yes under the dictionary definition "refugee" is technically accurate.... but under common usage most people come to think of refugee as someone outside the Nation in my opinion.... and I don't believe if the people were white that they would get this title....

but that is for another thread I guess..... I shouldn't have dropped it in this one [/b][/i]
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[quote name='BlackJesus' date='Sep 3 2005, 08:47 AM'][i][b]Lucid.... yes under the dictionary definition "refugee" is technically accurate.... but under common usage most people come to think of refugee as someone outside the Nation in my opinion.... and I don't believe if the people were white that they would get this title....

but that is for another thread I guess..... I shouldn't have dropped it in this one [/b][/i]
[right][post="141346"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote]


When has this happened before??

Maybe it feels foreign because it hasn't happened here before?

I just don't think everything is race related.. There is definitely a class issue here... And maybe a racial one. But if I were a newscaster I would struggle with what to label these people..

Misplaced Persons?? That is a refugee.. Eventually I would just have to admit.. We have American refugees in America... Call it what it is... Let the gravity of what is going on sink in. We have evacuated an entire major american city.

They are talking about building tent cities to temporarily house these "displaced persons"

Refugee camps.

We are going to have refugee camps in America... That is a sobering thought.
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Guest oldschooler
[quote name='Lucid' date='Sep 3 2005, 07:32 AM']Actually, there WAS a program put into place by past administations that Bush had been gutting over then past few years...

No, the feds took big steps backwards in this area during the current administration.. And that is stone hard fact.
[right][post="141334"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote]


Show me an article that says Bush gutted it...


I typed in New Orleans ASKED for Federal money for levee system

[url="http://search.yahoo.com/search?p=New+Orleans+asked+for+Federal+money+for+levee+system&prssweb=Search&ei=UTF-8&fr=FP-tab-web-t&fl=0&x=wrt"]http://search.yahoo.com/search?p=New+Orlea...eb-t&fl=0&x=wrt[/url]


New Orleans ASKS for Federal money for levee system

[url="http://search.yahoo.com/search?p=New+Orleans+asks+for+Federal+money+for+level+system&sp=1&prssweb=Search&ei=UTF-8&fl=0&fr=FP-tab-web-t&SpellState=n-328729926_q-oAnr3efCPbwviKUUjBKrAQAAAA%40%40"]http://search.yahoo.com/search?p=New+Orlea...BKrAQAAAA%40%40[/url]


Bush denies money for New Orleans levee system

[url="http://search.yahoo.com/search?p=Bush+denies+money+for+New+Orleans+levee+system&ei=UTF-8&fr=FP-tab-web-t&fl=0&x=wrt"]http://search.yahoo.com/search?p=Bush+deni...eb-t&fl=0&x=wrt[/url]

Nothing saying that anywhere.



I did see this though...

In fact, the federal government has been working with state and local officials in the region since the late 1960s on major hurricane and flood relief efforts. When flooding from a massive rainstorm in May 1995 killed six people, Congress authorized the Southeast Louisiana Urban Flood Control Project, or SELA.

Over the next 10 years,the Army Corps of Engineers, tasked with carrying out SELA, spent $430 million on shoring up levees and building pumping stations, with $50 million in local aid. But at least $250 million in crucial projects remained...

It`s actually from an op-ed article that blames Bush for it all.

[url="http://www.mediainfo.com/eandp/news/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1001051313"]http://www.mediainfo.com/eandp/news/articl...t_id=1001051313[/url]


Anyway The State of Louisiana, the County of Orleans and
the City of New Orleans had the ability and wherewithal to
fund their own flood control systems. Where was their plan?
What actions did they take ?

Why should the taxpayers of Ohio and Tennessee, as examples,
pay for flood control in New Orleans? Do the people of New Orleans
pay for the sewer systems in Cincinnati and Nashville ?

We funded OVER half of it. The people of New Orleans City/County and
the State of Louisiana could have easily picked up the rest.
We spent more than $250 million building a fucking football
stadium...
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1. They had 2 days to get out,they didn't.

2.People have to act like civilized humans,not grab guns and start looting,raping
and murder.

3.9/11 rescuers were able to get around,they didn't have the 80% of the city under
water.
4. That area has the most population depending on the govt check month to month
and expected the govt to roll in as soon as the levee broke.

Yes the fed acted slow,but the local breakdown I blame the most. The govenor
crying on tv and not acting didn't help,mayor running around and not taking control of his police force didn't help. Alot of lessons will be learned from this.
I would suggest they rebuild the city by filling in the bowl it's in now,and building
on top of that. This won't be the last time this will happen <_<

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[quote]The critical thing was to get people out of there before the disaster. Some people chose not to obey that order. That was a mistake on their part."
--- Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff, on the today show[/quote]

He is correct. The Mayor ordered a Mandatory evacuation.

Mandatory means [color="blue"]WILL[/color]; not shall/should but [color="blue"]WILL[/color].

I will get back to the mayors responsibility in this matter.

IMO, the fault lies with the Mayor, Governor and maybe the Head of FEMA; the incompetence of the first two may of lead to his inabilty with coordinate actions.

The president declared a "State of Emergency" prior to the Hurricane hitting.
Wilkimedia definition:
[[color="blue"]I]A state of emergency is a governmental declaration that may suspend certain normal functions of government, may work to alert citizens to alter their normal behaviors, or may order government agencies to implement emergency preparedness plans. It can also be used as a rationale for suspending civil liberties. Such declarations usually come during a time of natural disaster, during periods of civil unrest, or following a declaration of war (therefore, in democratic countries many call this martial law, most with non critical intent).[/I][/color]

If the prez would of done this after the Hurricane, I would of been critical, however he was pro-active and should be commended.

Back to the Mayor; I will illustrate a personal experience to demonstrate this Mayor incompotence:
Stationed in Bermuda, Sep 1987, Hurricane Emily hit the island. Prior to landfall the Commanding Officer (Mayor) issued a mandatory evacuation of Base Housing.
There was no choice [quote]It can also be used as a rationale for suspending civil liberties[/quote]. On that morning around 5:00am, the Base Police and Marines were out in force ensuring everyone complied with this standing order; we set up shelter in the high School gym with others at various pre-determined Hurricane proof sites. When the Hurricane passed, no-one was allowed to leave. The marines were sent out and secured the base. As a photographer, we were allowed to go to the lab in order to prepare to document the damage, I was the aerial photog so within hours I was up in the air.
When the base was secured, people were allowed to leave the gym.

The "state of emergency' decree gave the mayor the power to do everything to get these people evacuated. At the minimal, establish shelters with stocks of supplies and to assign local/state personnel with maintaining law and order; this includes supplying them with communication capabilities. He failed to demonstrate any leadership. Totally incompetent. No command and control.
I will allow a little (very minimal) defense for the mayor in that, some of these people would not leave no matter what; Physically able people that is. The people in the hospitals should of been one of the mayors first priorities.
The responsibility of getting control back in NO now lies at the Federal level.

Bernard Kerik (former NYC Police commissioner) is ripping the Mayor a new asshole. " He had five days to prepare for what he bitched about needing the other day"
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Guest BlackJesus
[color="blue"][b]Not to Fear ...... What a Disengenuous Asshole, I can't believe News agencies allow themselves to be used as propaganda[/b][/color]


[img]http://media.graytvinc.com/images/Bush%20Comforts%20Victims.jpg[/img]
[u]Bush Comforts Victims
AP
[/u]

President Bush has been trying to console people who lost their homes, and everything else but their lives, to Hurricane Katrina.

Visiting Biloxi, Mississippi, Bush spoke with a tearful woman who told him, "We don't have anything." They stood alongside the ruins of homes that had been reduced to pieces amid fallen trees and other debris.

He walked through the debris with the woman and a girl, his arms
around their shoulders, and told them to "hang in there."

Bush flew today to Mobile for an update on the relief efforts, and left from there to tour other areas of the Gulf coast that were ravaged by the storm.

Before leaving the White House, he said the efforts to provide food and water to survivors, and to stop the lawlessness in New Orleans, had not been good enough. He said, "The results are not acceptable."

[url="http://www.wtvynews4.com/home/headlines/1716781.html"]http://www.wtvynews4.com/home/headlines/1716781.html[/url]



[img]http://www.forces.org/fparch/portal/08-20-04_file/hitler-kids.jpg[/img][img]http://media.graytvinc.com/images/Bush%20Comforts%20Victims.jpg[/img]
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Guest BlackJesus
[img]http://i.cnn.net/cnn/2004/ALLPOLITICS/01/06/elec04.prez.bush.fundraising.ap/vert.bush.kids.ap.jpg[/img]
[b]Bush:[/b][i] "Better learn how to swim fast, shakazulu...."[/i]
[b]Shanae:[/b] [i]"It's Shanae" [/i]
[b]Bush:[/b] [i]"Whatever" (texas chuckle) [/i]
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From [url="http://slate.msn.com/id/2125478/"]Slate:[/url]

$41 Billion, and Not a Penny of Foresight
Why is the New Orleans recovery going so badly? Just look at the DHS budget.
By Fred Kaplan
Posted Friday, Sept. 2, 2005, at 1:01 PM PT

As Tim Naftali wrote in Slate yesterday, the Department of Homeland Security just flunked its first test. The question now—to ensure that things go better next time—is: Why? Was it simply that the storm's magnitude would have overwhelmed even the best-laid plans? Or is there something about DHS—a conglomerate of 22 federal departments and agencies mushed together in the desperate wake of 9/11—that compounds the normal sluggishness of large bureaucracies?

To understand why DHS is underperforming on the Gulf Coast, and why it won't improve soon, the best place to start is how it spends its money. There is no clearer window on a bureaucracy's culture than its budget, so let's look inside the DHS's 100-page budget book for fiscal year 2006.

The first thing to note is that, contrary to official rhetoric, this is not a department infused with urgency. The budget proposed for next year is only a hair larger than the budget approved for this year. ($41.02 billion in FY 2005, $41.07 billion in FY 2006.)

As for addressing disasters, the budget's more than a hair smaller. The DHS agency in charge of liaison with local emergency-planning outfits—the Office of State and Local Government Coordination and Preparedness—has had its budget cut by more than $600 million in the last two years (from $4.2 billion in FY 2004 to $4 billion in FY 2005 to a proposed $3.6 billion in FY 2006). This is one of just two DHS agencies that faces a budget cut, and it's the only one to be cut two years in a row.

Another line item that leaps off the page is the "pre-disaster mitigation fund and national flood mitigation fund." This is a "competitive grant program to assist states and communities to reach a higher level of risk management and risk reduction through planning and mitigation actions taken before disasters occur," and thus to "provide for a reduction to the risk to lives, to structures, and to critical infrastructure from natural hazards."

This program seems ready-made for a city like New Orleans. It gets a $58 million boost in next year's budget (from $120 million to $178 million)—but that merely restores the $49 million cut that it suffered in this year's.

Part of the problem is the consolidation of FEMA—an agency that deals with natural disasters—into a superagency set up primarily to deal with terrorist attacks. The head of FEMA used to be a Cabinet-level job and as such would sit in on meetings of the National Security Council and—at least theoretically—have a direct line to the president. When DHS was created in March 2003, all that was taken away; communiqués, bulletins, alerts, and so forth, from FEMA and 21 other federal departments and agencies, would henceforth be filtered through the secretary of homeland security.

If FEMA had still been an independent body in the days and weeks before Hurricane Katrina struck, would the NSC have been more fully warned of the disaster's potential scope? A FEMA study in early 2001 pegged a hurricane in New Orleans as one of the three biggest catastrophes that might strike the United States (the others were an earthquake in San Francisco and a terrorist attack in New York). Other specialists had warned that the levees might rupture—a possibility that neither the president nor his advisers apparently foresaw.

But there is a scarier question still to consider: How ready is DHS for the disaster that its officials have been focused on the last two and a half years? If New Orleans' levees had been broken not by a hurricane but by terrorists' bombs, the nightmares we see now—the lack of planning and therefore of food, water, transportation, shelter, and public order—would be no different. And yet the Department of Homeland Security had scant little to deal with it, either on hand or ready for quick mobilization, and nothing in the 2006 budget suggests it will be any readier next year, whether for a hurricane or another 9/11.
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Guest bengalrick
everyone messed up royally, but the local and state gov'ts are more to blame b/c of their lack of preparation... there should have been a plan drawn out for this exact scenario and the governor and mayor should have followed it to the from the begininng... this wasn't a surprise taht it happened... they have known this would happen for a long time now...

the president and homeland security made mistakes by not stepping up earlier...
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Guest steggyD

Here's something to ponder...

[url="http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2005/01/0125_050125_tsunami_island.html"]http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/20...ami_island.html[/url]

[quote]Did Island Tribes Use Ancient Lore to Evade Tsunami?

National Geographic News

January 24, 2005
One of the regions hardest hit by the December 26 tsunami was an extremely remote chain of more than 500 islands known collectively as the Andamans and Nicobars.

Governed by India, the archipelago separates the Bay of Bengal from the Andaman Sea. The islands are home to several hunter-gatherer tribes who until fairly recently have had very little contact with the outside world.

Anthropologists initially feared the tribes could have been completely wiped out. But Indian Air Force pilots flying sorties over the islands days after the tsunami reported seeing men who fired arrows at their helicopters. Since then there have been reports that the islanders used their ancient knowledge of nature to escape the tsunami...[/quote]

Wow, look at that. A group of tribal people, without any modern conveniences, such as television and the Weather Channel. They had a much shorter warning than those in the wake of Katrina. And guess what. They all escaped danger.

They didn't have any national guard units, no buses, no helicopters. How, oh how did they pull such a feat off? Magic? No, they used their feet. Amazing!!! And they don't even come around afterwards blaming white people. :thumbsup:

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Guest steggyD
More on people who can escape natural disaster without government help.

[url="http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/01/04/world/main664729.shtml"]http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/01/04/...ain664729.shtml[/url]

[quote]Ancient Tribe Survives Tsunami

JIRKATANG, India, Jan. 6, 2005

(AP) Members of the ancient Jarawa tribe emerged from their forest habitat Thursday for the first time since the Dec. 26 tsunami and earthquakes that rocked the isolated Andaman and Nicobar Islands, and in a rare interaction with outsiders announced that [b]all 250 of their fellow tribespeople had survived.[/b]

"We are all safe after the earthquake. We are in the forest in Balughat," Ashu, an arrow-wielding Jarawa, said in broken Hindi through an interpreter in a restricted forest area in the northern reaches of South Andaman island.

According to varying estimates, there are only 400 to 1,000 members alive today from the Jarawas, Great Andamanese, Onges, Sentinelese and Shompens. Some anthropological DNA studies indicate the generations may have spanned back 70,000 years. They originated in Africa and migrated to India through Indonesia, anthropologists say.

Government officials and anthropologists believe that ancient knowledge of the movement of wind, sea and birds may have saved the indigenous tribes from the tsunami.

Seven men — wearing only underwear and amulets — emerged from the forest to meet with government officials to say [b]they had all fled to the forest and survived by eating coconuts.[/b] The men were all carrying bows and five arrows each and wore colored headbands with leaves...[/quote]

Is civilization the de-evolution of mankind?
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