My turn at the Blame Game

[Guest steggyD]

It seems that everyone else gets to blame people for hurricane relief, right? Instead of blaming people that could've left the city. OK, so now everyone says that it is impossible to walk out of a city, I disagree, it is different, but not impossible. I have, before you, what is evidence of a Mayor who was not able to plan for his own city in case of emergency. I don't know about you, but I would not be happy with this mayor. Because, believe it or not, evacuation plans are usually not a federal program, it's City and State. They know the place better, let them plan for it. I would also advise, any of you living on the Eastern Coast, to make sure that your city and state have good plans of how to evacuate or protect your people.

[img]http://i.a.cnn.net/cnn/2005/US/09/02/nagin.transcript/story.nagin.ap.jpg[/img]

The mayor of New Orleans is black, right? Why did he not bus all of the vehicle-less people out of New Orleans before the hurricane hit? Which would have been the best time? It's just amazing, that we go blaming the Federal government, which is basically calling the rest of the country a bunch of racists. Obviously, the mayor did not care enough about his own city, or was this his plan?

Evidence A:
[img]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/c/cf/Flooded_New_Orleans_school_buses.jpg[/img]

Many buses, in just one picture, that could have been used to bus the poor people out.

Evidence B:
[quote]A 2000 census revealed that 27% of New Orleans households, amounting to approximately 120,000 people, were without privately-owned transportation.[/quote]

Now, the Mayor must have known that there were many people that had no privately-owned transportation. A smart mayor would set up some kind of plan as to how to evacuate the people, but instead, he told them all to go to the Superdome. Will the Superdome hold all 120,000 people?

[Guest BlackJesus]

[i][b]so you have a picture of buses under water.... wow call Johnny Cochran for this evidence...

- the drivers already ran out of town
- those buses in that pic couldn't carry but a a few thousand people tops
- a city doesn't have the resources to evacuate hundreds of thousands of people.... but the Natl Guard does, and FEMA does. Natl Guard was busy being shot at in Iraq, Fema sent a rep there who then forgot to tell his boss the head of homeland security that there were people at the convention center until 4 days later.

why might the head of fema and Homeland security not be good at disaster relief.... = because niether has ever headed one up they are old buddies of Bushie and we know jobs go to dads friends and oil buddies before competency is taken into question.

did the mayor make mistakes = sure, everyone did in this case. will the mayor lose his job next election if he fucked up = yes, should the people of New Orleans oust him = their call, should the rest of the nation oust Bush = all of our call, absolutley[/b][/i]

[Guest steggyD]

That's just one picture. What I am saying is that an area's evacuation plan is up to that area. Not the entire federal government. Obviously there is too much bureaucracy on the federal government level. If this mayor knew that there are that many people in his city without cars, he should have a plan, a plan to get the people out of town when disaster nears. This, hopefully, will show other areas that they need to make sure that they have plans in place in case of emergency, be it a hurricane, blizzard, terrorist attack, etc. In this case, it is easiest to get people out before the hurricane hits, when there are no floods in the way. And what's wrong with employing those without cars as the bus drivers, since you think all of the original bus drivers were out of town already. Just admit it, local evacuation is just that, local evacuation.

[Beaker]

Run that many buses in shifts for 3-5 days and you have more than enough time to evacuate those that needed it. But hey, its just easier to scream "federal gov't fucked up" if thats your agenda.

*note: above is not the only solution OR reason...just a reference to the point made by the pic.

[Guest ONYX]

SteggyD,

Once again, another narrow minded perspective. The obnoxious prevalent conservative assumption that all the people that died could have packed up their minivans and drove to their summer homes is alive and well. A lot of the people who died were poor. Poor means they don't have any money. So they didn't own cars and couldn't afford to get a cab. They probably had kids and realized even if they did leave they'd be not only broke but suddenly homeless. They probably believed that the hurricane wouldn't nearly be as bad as it ended up being.....like all of us. But lets blame them.
This "blaming the victims" shit is asinine. If we are going to that , lets blame all those people who died in the 2nd tower on 9/11. They saw what happened when the airplane hit the first tower. They should've got out when they saw the 1st tower get hit right?. I guess they probably believed that no one would ever try to fly an airplane into a building...like all of us. But lets blame them too. Its their fault they died. Does that sound fucked up? Its the same thing you are trying to say about the hurricane victims. Now I hope this post of yours was meant to be saturated with sarcasm. Whether you are serious are not, one thing is clearly obvious.....you are an asshole.

[Guest steggyD]

Maybe the Mayor is happy with how things turned out. Now they can rebuild the City. And even leave the poor people out!?

Pay attention to the highlighted areas. And look at the news, the news of shipping the poor people out of the area, and into Texas and other surrounding states. Now the Mayor can "clean up" his City and start fresh. Something to think about...

[url="http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/special/05/katrina/3338671"]Houston Chronicle[/url]

[quote]NEW ORLEANS' REVIVAL
Recapturing the city's flavor is not a given
By TONY FREEMANTLE
Copyright 2005 Houston Chronicle

It is drowned in a filthy flood. Vibrant neighborhoods, the incubators of its soul, are lost. Its economy, largely dependent on tourists seduced by its quirky, decadent charm, is in ruins. [b]It has been abandoned by its people, tens of thousands of whom may never return.[/b]

Can New Orleans, one of only a handful of unique American cities, survive? Could any major city, anywhere, survive such a calamity?

Galveston did after the 1900 hurricane swept it away, even though it never fully recovered. Chicago underwent an architectural renaissance after the Great Fire of 1871. San Francisco came back from the 1906 earthquake and fire that virtually leveled it.

Experts who have studied those and other urban disasters said that [b]New Orleans, too, probably will rise again from its sodden ruins.[/b]

[b]But it will be a different New Orleans[/b], one that may not be recognizable to those who know it best.

New Orleans, to a degree matched by few other American cities, is about much more than bricks, mortar and materialism. What sets it apart is its indomitable spirit, its cultural gumbo, its intangibles that emanate in significant measure from its poorest neighborhoods. Many of these communities, their music halls, their barbershops, their mom-and-pop Creole restaurants, could be irretrievably lost.

Fats Domino's house and his entire neighborhood are gone. A park in the historic Treme neighborhood named for Louis Armstrong is flooded. The Lower 9th Ward, home of the trumpeter Kermit Ruffins, is under water.

So, too, is Bywater, and the 7th Ward, and other neighborhoods that were home to countless jazz and blues greats, the Mardi Gras Indians and some of the world's best and oldest Po' Boy emporiums.

If the new New Orleans is to resemble the old New Orleans, these communities will have to be rebuilt in their own image. Above all, the ingredients that made them what they were must be included in the recipes of their future.

"The spirit of New Orleans is all about the people," said Jacob Wagner, a professor of urban planning at the University of Missouri at Kansas City who studied the relationship between memory and place in New Orleans. "If the people come back and rebuild, the spirit will survive. If they don't, fragmentation of local culture could occur. Maintaining the local character of the city must be part of the discussion about how to rebuild."

Poor most vulnerable

[b]A sad but almost universal truth about major urban disasters, experts said, is that the poorest communities are almost always the most vulnerable. If their neighborhoods are destroyed, too often they are rebuilt with more affluent tenants in mind. The poor get displaced and often go elsewhere. [/b]

Others might decide that rebuilding their lives on the delta of one of the world's great rivers, in a city that must try to tame it to survive, is not worth the risk.

[b]When New Orleans comes back, a sizable portion of its residents will not.[/b]

"It's never going to be the same city," said Mary Comerio, an architecture professor at the University of California at Berkeley who has conducted extensive research into how urban areas recover from disasters. "It will be a functioning city. [b]But you are going to lose a segment of your population, and this means New Orleans will be a smaller city.[/b]"

...

"Anything's possible in New Orleans. Anything."[/quote]

[Guest steggyD]

[quote name='sneaky' date='Sep 4 2005, 03:08 PM']SteggyD, 
 
Once again, another narrow minded perspective.  The obnoxious prevalent conservative assumption that all the people that died could have packed up their minivans and drove to their summer homes is alive and well. A lot of the people who died were poor. Poor means they don't have any money. So they didn't own cars and couldn't afford to get a cab. They probably had kids and realized even if they did leave they'd be not only broke but suddenly homeless. They probably believed that the hurricane wouldn't nearly be as bad as it ended up being.....like all of us. But lets blame them.
This "blaming the victims" shit is asinine. If we are going to that , lets blame all those people who died in the 2nd tower on 9/11. They saw what happened when the airplane hit the first tower. They should've got out when they saw the 1st tower get hit right?. I guess they probably believed that no one would ever try to fly an airplane into a building...like all of us. But lets blame them too. Its their fault they died. Does that sound fucked up? Its the same thing you are trying to say about the hurricane victims. Now I hope this post of yours was meant to be saturated with sarcasm. Whether you are serious are not, one thing is clearly obvious.....you are an asshole.
[right][post="142170"][/post][/right][/quote]
You sir, are an cuddly wuddly teddy bear. I blamed the mayor in this case. Did you read my post, or are you just quick at responding however you feel that you should. Evacuation plans for natural disasters are up to cities, then states, and the federal government comes in afterwards, if the city cannot handle the problem. The city failed at saving its people, then blame the entire country for not helping them out.

Stay out of my threads, if you have no input to what is being said!

[Guest BengalBacker]

[quote name='sneaky' date='Sep 4 2005, 02:08 PM']SteggyD, 
 
Poor means they don't have any money. So they didn't own cars and couldn't afford to get a cab. They probably had kids and realized even if they did leave they'd be not only broke but suddenly homeless. [right][post="142170"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote]

If they're too poor to own a car, or even cab fare, why are they having kids?

[Guest steggyD]

And another thing. If the people in that tower on 9/11 were told on say, 9/09 that a jet airliner was going to crash into their building, yet they stayed. Then yes, I would blame them for being in the building. Duh!!!

[The Scales]

Bush is in office because of all those that voted for him. The sheep made their bed now we must all sleep in it.


The evacuation call was made...where there is a will, there is a way.

[Guest steggyD]

One thing some of you all must understand, is I am not a Bush supporter. I stand by some of his decisions, yet scoff at others. I did not vote for him, neither did I vote for Kerry. I did vote, however, but I guess you could say that I "threw my vote away".

All I am trying to point out is that I do not think that this is a Presidential problem. When will people realize that your local government, which is something any of you can easily become a part of or have a voice in, should have evacuation plans for any type of emergency, be it an act of god, or act of terrorism. I am also hoping that people will see what happened here, and then become involved to make sure there are precautions set up in their city.

[The Scales]

My statements are directed more at a certain individual who shall go unamed, who infact voted for Damien, and now bashes him relentlsy. It's almost like bashin yourself.

I agree with you Backer, but i have an answer, WELFARE.


As far as it being a local government issue oh i agree,-mostly- but didn't Truman say "The BUCK STOPS HERE?"

[Guest BlackJesus]

[quote]9/11 were told on say, 9/09 that a jet airliner was going to crash into their building,[/quote]

[i][b]Wasn't Bush told "Bin Laden determined to attack the US"... while on vacation a month before

Also the WTC was bombed in 1994, those idiots should have known not to work in a prime target.... I swear if those rich yuppie asses in the 90th floor would have been natives in the fuckenesia islands they would have scaled down the towers and ate cocunuts in the subways until them and the monkey people made their own civilization. then they would have shot at the choppers and not wanted government help. [/b][/i]

[Beaker]

[quote name='sneaky' date='Sep 4 2005, 07:08 PM']lets blame all those people who died in the 2nd tower on 9/11. They saw what happened when the airplane hit the first tower. They should've got out when they saw the 1st tower get hit right?. [right][post="142170"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote]

Difference being the people in the north tower were told to stay put. Even the ones that went down to the lobby were told to get on the elevators and go back to their offices. They were told there was to much debris and that they would just be getting in the way of rescue efforts. They were told it was safer to stay in their building. And that info is directly from the mouth of one of the survivors.

Nowhere in New Orleans were people told to stay put or go back. They stayed despite a mandatory evacuation order to leave. Bad analogy.

[Guest steggyD]

[quote name='BlackJesus' date='Sep 4 2005, 04:49 PM'][i][b]Wasn't Bush told "Bin Laden determined to attack the US"... while on vacation a month before

Also the WTC was bombed in 1994, those idiots should have known not to work in a prime target.... I swear if those rich yuppie asses in the 90th floor would have been natives in the fuckenesia islands they would have scaled down the towers and ate cocunuts in the subways until them and the monkey people made their own civilization.  then they would have shot at the choppers and not wanted government help.  [/b][/i]
[right][post="142212"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote]
And this does not even deserve a response, but oh well. The hurricane warning had a path drawn up by meteorologists, a guesstimate at landfall, wind speeds, and whatever else one needs to know. There was no time of a plane running into the WTC. There was no path drawn up by terrorists for us to see. A threat by terrorists only tell you that one day someone "may" blow up your building. On the other hand, this incident at the WTC should wake others up to have some sort of great evacuation plan for whatever building you work in.

[Guest CTBengalsFan]

[quote name='steggyD' date='Sep 4 2005, 05:18 PM']And this does not even deserve a response, but oh well. The hurricane warning had a path drawn up by meteorologists, a guesstimate at landfall, wind speeds, and whatever else one needs to know. There was no time of a plane running into the WTC. There was no path drawn up by terrorists for us to see. A threat by terrorists only tell you that one day someone "may" blow up your building. On the other hand, this incident at the WTC should wake others up to have some sort of great evacuation plan for whatever building you work in.
[right][post="142245"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote]


I gave up arguing with BJ before I ever even started.

[sean]

Every month New Orleans has a half hour program on TV explaining how to evacuate and what to bring in case of a hurricane. They distribute packets that show where to go and what to bring. They have maps and info that show where to go and what to bring, in the phone book. There were buses going around evacuating people for free. The people that stayed stayed by choice. They thought they could "ride it out". The people that did leave and go to the shelters (super dome, convention center) were screwed because the mayor and governor weren't prepared. If all of this info is out there showing the people what to do and where to go, shouldn't they have had supplies ready for them? It was collossal screw up. FEMA screwed up on there slow response. Bush declared a state of emergency "before" the hurricane hit which freed up money and allowed FEMA to act.
There's plenty of blame for everyone, including those that stayed in their homes and lost their lives.

[Guest steggyD]

Interesting sean. I never knew all of that.

[Beaker]

The Times-Picayune ran an article on JULY 24...5 weeks BEFORE the hurricane. It said how that if a major one happened, that the local govt was unprepared to handle it. They wouldnt be able to rescue you, and you would be ON YOUR OWN! You would have to evacuate by any means possible...even if that meant ON FOOT. Also that shelters would be available in outlying areas to go to.

The day before the hurricane, RTA buses were running relays out of town to inland shelter areas FOR FREE. The were going largely empty!

From an evolutionary standpoint though, it did improve the gene pool of the human race. It weeded out alot of stupid, and lack of common sense. And that statement applys for ALL races that stayed.

[Jamie_B]

[quote name='Beaker' date='Sep 6 2005, 03:20 PM']The Times-Picayune ran an article on JULY 24...5 weeks BEFORE the hurricane. It said how that if a major one happened, that the local govt was unprepared to handle it. They wouldnt be able to rescue you, and you would be ON YOUR OWN! You would have to evacuate by any means possible...even if that meant ON FOOT. Also that shelters would be available in outlying areas to go to.

The day before the hurricane, RTA buses were running relays out of town to inland shelter areas FOR FREE. The were going largely empty!

[b]From an evolutionary standpoint though, it did improve the gene pool of the human race. It weeded out alot of stupid, and lack of common sense. And that statement applys for ALL races that stayed.[/b]
[right][post="143356"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote]


Yeah but then we still have this problem...

[img]http://espn-att.starwave.com/i/magazine/new/hilton_reid.jpg[/img]

[Storm]

The Mayor didn't seem to have a problem getting out of town