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1st Round Trade?


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6 minutes ago, T-Dub said:

 

After finishing no worse than 7-9 since they won the SB and 7 playoff appearances in 11 years?  I think they're probably fine with i;, bunch of guys are retiring anyway so they rebuild for a year or two and are free to do it again.

96mil is alot of fat trimming though..

 

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7 minutes ago, T-Dub said:

 

Another thing that boggles my mind.  We saw the same shit with Ross and so many others.  So instead of cutting the underperforming guy or someone that's just not part of their future plans & saving $10 million, they'll pay them $15 million to take up a roster space doing next to nothing because..  Reasons?  That $5 million in dead money was gone the day the guy signed the contract, it's not coming back. 

 

You'd think someone in the franchise FO would understand a basic concept like sunk costs but here we are again. "Oh no, dead money, we better PAY HIM 4 TIMES THAT SO WE DON'T WASTE IT!"  It's hard to watch people who think they are supremely qualified basically shit themselves just to stay warm.

Very valid point you make..

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2 hours ago, T-Dub said:

 

Worse than Hart or whoever else we have now?  Our starting OTs for next season are Average Guy That's Spent Most of His Career on IR and Guy We Hope We Get in the Draft.   It's vital that they create some kind of veteran depth at the position, at least in the short term.  Another offseason of "we can't just go to WalMart" is bullshit.

 

Honestly I'm hoping they PUP Burrow regardless and let Pollack try to piece together a line that's worth risking him behind before they send him back out there. This team isn't going anywhere next year either way & his long term health is more important than some meaningless wins. 

 

Taylor is on thin ice though and seems like the type that would throw his own grandmother to the wolves to avoid blame. 

 

Absolutely agreed that Bengals fans are banking on Williams and Sewell (two unknowns) to be the fixes and then we're good. I sure as hell hope the Bengals are not thinking that way. I agree that they need to add at least one higher tier tackle or guard and another second tier tackle or guard to bolster the line with some veteran talent. I'd be OK with another Center, too. They also need to re-sign Quinton Spain.

 

There are actually lots of options, average fans just aren't aware of them as they're not household names. I mentioned Taylor Moton back in October and people scoffed at such a low level talent and hoped the Bengals should shoot higher. I agree that the Panthers will not likely let him slip away so, if he's gone Daryl Williams would be a very nice get for Right Tackle.  Although some turn there nose up at him, Alejandro Villanueva  would be a significant upgrade at RT, too.  As mentioned in another thread, there will be cap casualties popping up at OT and OG too so opportunity to upgrade through free agency will be there.

 

I agree with SF2, the fact we may need to take another offensive linemen in the first round is ludicrous. I'd much sooner see the Bengals spend their cash on proven veterans and grab an upgrade at another position in Round 1. I like Sewell and would still be happy if that's who they take but I don't want them to have to take him. Let's face it...the kid hasn't played in over a year and although he was a great college player, there's no guarantee he pans out. Is that what we want to pin Burrow's protection on?!?

 

Lastly, the Bengals aren't putting Burrow on the PUP is he's healthy. That would be ridiculous.

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24 minutes ago, T-Dub said:

 

Another thing that boggles my mind.  We saw the same shit with Ross and so many others.  So instead of cutting the underperforming guy or someone that's just not part of their future plans & saving $10 million, they'll pay them $15 million to take up a roster space doing next to nothing because..  Reasons?  That $5 million in dead money was gone the day the guy signed the contract, it's not coming back. 

 

You'd think someone in the franchise FO would understand a basic concept like sunk costs but here we are again. "Oh no, dead money, we better PAY HIM 4 TIMES THAT SO WE DON'T WASTE IT!"  It's hard to watch people who think they are supremely qualified basically shit themselves just to stay warm.

 

Yup but, this has been a Bengals staple mentality for decades. The Bengals have kept many players well past their Best Before date due to this. The one that stands our for me is John Thornton. I think if rumors are true (that Geno doesn't want to be here) that may push the Bengals past this typical behavior.

 

The problem is, this creates yet another need. You surely can't go into the season with Christian Covington or Xavier Williams as one of your starting DTs. I'm not saying they should bring Atkins back as a result but every subtraction requires an addition to offset it. If they also lose Carl Lawson they will need at least two starters for the defensive line in addition to the massive upgrades for the offensive line. There's a lot of work to be done.  

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New Orleans isn't in that bad of shape. They've done a lot of contract restructuring in recent years to kick cap hits down the road. They could do it again if Brees is playing in 2021. More likely he retires and they take the cap hits for 2021 to set up future years. They won't keep Kwon Alexander at 13 mil, their punter and placekicker count a combined 9 mil, etc. They can gain a lot of space by cutting guys they can replace without too much trouble and deferring others. 

 

Suppose they were willing to trade Ramczyk for an early 3rd round pick. Should the Bengals make that deal?

 

I'd say yes and still consider Sewell if he's on the board at 5. But we'd be covered if we use our first round pick on another position.

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5 minutes ago, BengalFanInTO said:

 

Yup but, this has been a Bengals staple mentality for decades. The Bengals have kept many players well past their Best Before date due to this. The one that stands our for me is John Thornton. I think if rumors are true (that Geno doesn't want to be here) that may push the Bengals past this typical behavior.

 

The problem is, this creates yet another need. You surely can't go into the season with Christian Covington or Xavier Williams as one of your starting DTs. I'm not saying they should bring Atkins back as a result but every subtraction requires an addition to offset it. If they also lose Carl Lawson they will need at least two starters for the defensive line in addition to the massive upgrades for the offensive line. There's a lot of work to be done.  

 

Presumably Reader will be back for training camp. Besides him and Atkins we lost Tupou and Wren to sitting out the year on the covid list. They'd both have been starting ahead of Covington and Williams. 

 

We should cut Geno and look for a DT in rounds 2-4

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With the much lower salary cap, we can anticipate a glut of talent on the market...with less money being offered.  I imagine most of the better players that will be cut will seek a one-year contract with the though bring that he can make up the “loss” the following year.

 

Is this flawed thinking? 
 

Look for some of the smarter front offices make some shrewd moves.

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8 hours ago, claptonrocks said:

96mil is alot of fat trimming though..

 

They basically went all in trying to win the Super Bowl the past three years. The problem is Brees can’t throw the ball deep anymore.  He also hasn’t played well late in the season 4 years in a row now. He is done. They just ran out of time and cap space. 

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13 hours ago, BengalFanInTO said:

 

Lastly, the Bengals aren't putting Burrow on the PUP is he's healthy. That would be ridiculous.

 

 

It would be no less ridiculous than asking him to throw the ball 40 times a game behind the likes of Bobby Hart.  The team does not have a history of good decisions where Joe Burrow is concerned.

 

Besides which, wasn't the story with Williams that he could've played if the games weren't meaningless? Why would they protect him like that & not Burrow?

 

Hell of a message to send to other guys that were toughing it out to play hurt, by the way.. Another example of how team culture is not created by press conferences. 

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3 hours ago, T-Dub said:

 

 

It would be no less ridiculous than asking him to throw the ball 40 times a game behind the likes of Bobby Hart.  The team does not have a history of good decisions where Joe Burrow is concerned.

 

Besides which, wasn't the story with Williams that he could've played if the games weren't meaningless? Why would they protect him like that & not Burrow?

 

Hell of a message to send to other guys that were toughing it out to play hurt, by the way.. Another example of how team culture is not created by press conferences. 

 

It's one thing not to rush back a player from an injury late in the season when you have nothing to gain or play for. I believe they did this with not only Jonah Williams but, with Joe Mixon and Trae Waynes. It's completely another thing to intentionally shelve your best player to begin the season because he might get hurt. When do they bring him back? In three or four years when when you think you've built a Super Bowl team for him?!? Unwrap him from the bubble wrap and and wheel him out on the field. Talk about a losing culture. Throw in the towel before you even start the season.

 

Everything I have seen and heard from Joe Burrow won't allow this to happen. The guy is a gamer and that's the kind of attitude I want.

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8 hours ago, SF2 said:

They basically went all in trying to win the Super Bowl the past three years. The problem is Brees can’t throw the ball deep anymore.  He also hasn’t played well late in the season 4 years in a row now. He is done. They just ran out of time and cap space. 

Yep - if the cap growth had been normal (non Covid ) they would have been in cap 'trouble'. But now they are in cap hell. But hey, they went for it and had some great teams

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1 hour ago, BengalFanInTO said:

 

It's completely another thing to intentionally shelve your best player to begin the season because he might get hurt. When do they bring him back? In three or four years when when you think you've built a Super Bowl team for him?!? Unwrap him from the bubble wrap and and wheel him out on the field. Talk about a losing culture. Throw in the towel before you even start the season.

 

 

This is exactly what they did with Eifert & Green in training camps (and I assume others), except for the part about a Super Bowl team.  In both cases I thought it sent a terrible message to the team.

 

Burrow, however, is the franchise's future & their negligence already cost him a career-threatening injury.  Missing an extra few games while the OL gets their shit together won't hurt anything but allowing that to happen again would basically lock the basement door on this franchise for the next 5-10 years.  

 

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I would promote a double trade if Sewell is not there. Trade down from 5 to say 10/12 range and then maybe the Colts trade up from 21 given they need a QB (or some other team does). For once I would like to gather multiple picks in rounds 2-4. Could bge a gold mine draft if played right (and right players picked of course)

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3 hours ago, I_C_Deadpeople said:

I would promote a double trade if Sewell is not there. Trade down from 5 to say 10/12 range and then maybe the Colts trade up from 21 given they need a QB (or some other team does). For once I would like to gather multiple picks in rounds 2-4. Could bge a gold mine draft if played right (and right players picked of course)

Im with you on this..especially another 2nd rounder..

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3 hours ago, I_C_Deadpeople said:

I would promote a double trade if Sewell is not there. Trade down from 5 to say 10/12 range and then maybe the Colts trade up from 21 given they need a QB (or some other team does). For once I would like to gather multiple picks in rounds 2-4. Could bge a gold mine draft if played right (and right players picked of course)

 

I actually agree. I think the Bengals are making a serious error if they go anything but Offensive Line or Defensive Line in the first. This draft is also said to be very deep at a number of need positions. If Sewell is gone, drop back, pick up more selections and take that 1st round o-lineman or d-lineman we need.

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4 hours ago, I_C_Deadpeople said:

I would promote a double trade if Sewell is not there. Trade down from 5 to say 10/12 range and then maybe the Colts trade up from 21 given they need a QB (or some other team does). For once I would like to gather multiple picks in rounds 2-4. Could bge a gold mine draft if played right (and right players picked of course)


How about three? 😅

(Note that 1,2,3,4 + R1,R2 2022 + R1,R2 2023 for the first trade, 1,2,3 + R1 2022 + R1 2023 for the second)

 

ThreeTrades.thumb.png.245b55d64e90ece7699f7c9a599000da.png

 

Edit:  I realize this is unrealistic but I do think it's the kind of thinking the Bengals need to have in trade-downs.  Fleece other teams (and with future picks), and think "revamp" with this year's picks.  This haul and three first-rounders and second-rounders for the upcoming two drafts is a nice fantasy.

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24 minutes ago, HavePityPlease said:


How about three? 😅

(Note that 1,2,3,4 + R1,R2 2022 + R1,R2 2023 for the first trade, 1,2,3 + R1 2022 + R1 2023 for the second)

 

ThreeTrades.thumb.png.245b55d64e90ece7699f7c9a599000da.png

 

Edit:  I realize this is unrealistic but I do think it's the kind of thinking the Bengals need to have in trade-downs.  Fleece other teams (and with future picks), and think "revamp" with this year's picks.  This haul and three first-rounders and second-rounders for the upcoming two drafts is a nice fantasy.

Damn good mock...

I can only hope that would come true!!

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16 hours ago, SF2 said:

They basically went all in trying to win the Super Bowl the past three years. The problem is Brees can’t throw the ball deep anymore.  He also hasn’t played well late in the season 4 years in a row now. He is done. They just ran out of time and cap space. 

His wife came out and said that he was playing with a partially torn rotator cuff. That explains what we saw from him late in the season. That's exactly what it looked like. 

 

I do agree with you, he can't physically stand up to the grind of NFL football. He ought to retire

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2 hours ago, HavePityPlease said:


How about three? 😅

(Note that 1,2,3,4 + R1,R2 2022 + R1,R2 2023 for the first trade, 1,2,3 + R1 2022 + R1 2023 for the second)

 

ThreeTrades.thumb.png.245b55d64e90ece7699f7c9a599000da.png

 

Edit:  I realize this is unrealistic but I do think it's the kind of thinking the Bengals need to have in trade-downs.  Fleece other teams (and with future picks), and think "revamp" with this year's picks.  This haul and three first-rounders and second-rounders for the upcoming two drafts is a nice fantasy.


ESPN would love it, as it will just about double their number of commercials.  


:ninja: 
 

I've always thought that the trade value charts under-value next year’s picks, and it would be smart to bite the bullet

one year, and set yourself up for years to come.

 

For instance, trade this year’s 2nd-round pick for a team’s 1st-round pick next year.  If you do that EVERY year, you’ll have two 1st-round picks EVERY YEAR instead of a first and a second.  The “cost” is your 2nd-round pick in this year’s draft, but you are then set up to reap the benefits for years and years...assuming you can still find trade partners.  

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One trend I am seeing and like from the mocks and mock simulators (which I am aware mean absolutely nothing... but I am a junkie for them, anyway)  is that Creed Humphry is dropping to the upper middle rounds.  Short arms, I guess, but I am thinking he could be everything Billy Price was supposed to be.  But, hey, I still have homes for Billy with the new O line coach.

Speaking of Billy, I mentioned before that at the games he would stand off to the left pretty much away from everyone else on the team (players) which I took as a very bad sign for him symbolically if nothing else.

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