Time for some sort of intervention?

[Guest ONYX]

[quote name='BengalBacker' date='Sep 5 2005, 01:58 AM']When did that happen?

I know you aren't talking about Timothy Thomas. Are you?
[right][post="142570"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote]

Shooting increases tensions

By Craig Garretson and Jennifer Edwards, Post staff reporters

An unarmed teen-ager shot and killed by a police officer in Over-the-Rhine early Saturday is the 15th black male to die at the hands of Cincinnati police since 1995.

Police have offered no explanation as to why an officer shot 19-year-old Timothy Thomas, who was wanted onmisdemeanor charges, although they promised more details later today.

''We fully expect the same old lies to come out,'' said attorney Ken Lawson. ''But the bottom line is an unarmed teen-aged boy was shot and killed.''

Lawson represents the family of 19-year-old Timothy Thomas, who was shot about 2:20 a.m. Saturday by District 1 Officer Steven Roach at 1230 Republic St. He was pronounced dead at University Hospital at 3:02 a.m. that morning.

''Tim was a good kid,'' said his stepfather, Eric Leisure. ''He got into trouble now and then, but nothing warranting him getting shot down.''

Leisure said Thomas and his mother, Angela Leisure, moved to Cincinnati in 1997, and she had worked for Procter & Gamble.

''She came here for a better life, never thinking the police would take her son,'' he said. Mrs. Leisure said she felt safe in Cincinnati after living on Chicago's South Side.

''I lived a life of fear, worried that my kids would walk outside the door and get killed,'' she said. ''I saw it was a different way of life here.''

Thomas was 15 when they moved and had an untreated learning disability.

''He was one of the many that fell through the cracks,'' said his mother, adding that he was too ashamed to go to high school, so he attended the nativity Learning Center in Price Hill where he earned his general equivalency diploma in about a year.

''He wasn't ashamed any more,'' she said. She said he was real good working with his han ds and had taught himself to read blueprints.

Lawson said Thomas is also survived by a sister, his 3-month-old son, and his girlfriend, Monique Wilcox, who is the baby's mother.

Roach, a Cincinnati police officer since 1997, is on paid administrative leave and the Homicide Unit is conducting an investigation into the shooting, said police spokesman Lt. Ray Ruberg. Both actions are according to division policy.

''I'm shell shocked,'' said Scotty Johnson, a Cincinnati police officer who is president of the Sentinels Police Association, which represents African-American officers. ''We need to learn how to do things differently as police officers.''

He said the shooting underscores the need for changes in the division.

''We can't continue to make excuses if there is a problem. We need to change our mentality as police officers,'' he said. ''There's less tolerance when it comes to interacting with black men in the city of Cincinnati. Why? That's the $64,000 question. I would love to know what it is, but let me say black men are not the enemy of Cincinnati police. It's ballooning into now another situation where there's a lot of questions raised that need to be answered.''

According to police reports and Ruberg, police officers Robert Jones and David Damico were working off duty on a security job when they saw Thomas, who is wanted on 14 outstanding warrants for failure to appear for misdemeanor charges and traffic violations, in the 1300 block of Vine Street at 2:14 a.m. and called in his description: six feet tall and wearing a red bandana and Indy 500 jacket. Lawson said Thomas was walking to a nearby store from his apartment for a pack of cigarettes.

That's when Roach saw Thomas and chased him on foot for several minutes to 13th and Republic Street, where Roach fired one shot at 2:16 a.m. and hit Thomas in the chest, killing him.

No other officers were with Roach during the confrontation, Ruberg said, and no weapon was recovered.

A 911 tape backs up most of Ruberg's version of events, but a woman who called a dispatcher shortly after 2:30 a.m. claimed police shot the wrong man after pulling another man over in a car and foot chase on Vine St. The caller, a woman who calls herself Kim Jordan, does not divulge further details, saying she fears being shot by the police, too.

''They shot the wrong person...and they are trying to order everyone away,'' Ms. Jordan is heard saying on a recording. ''They don't want anybody to know about it....but everybody down here seen it...they thought he was somebody else, and there wasn't any reason for them to shoot him.''

Roach, 26, has received excellent evaluations from his superiors, according to his personnel file.

[Guest ONYX]

[quote name='steggyD' date='Sep 5 2005, 01:59 AM']sneaky, you have totally lost your rocker. As long as you are not out causing any trouble, police officers have no right to go bothering you. Unless you live in some place called Basin City, I think you are a little out of touch with reality. I grew up in Covington, if you want to know so badly. The police officers roughed me up when I was a teenage punk. But you know what. I deserved it, because I was out causing trouble most of the time. If I weren't causing much trouble, then they would have left me alone. Like some of the friends I had that went separate ways. They weren't hanging out on the street corners, getting into trouble. And the police officers left them alone. You are living your life off of extreme examples instead of looking at the overall big picture. Noone can speak any common sense to you whatsoever sneaky. You're out of touch.
[right][post="142571"][/post][/right][/quote]


Teenage punks who look like you may get roughed up.
Teenage punks who look like me may get shot.
Big difference.
OH NO!!!! I've gone crazy!!!!

[Guest BengalBacker]

You said:

"As if a cop has ever killed an unarmed black person over unpaid traffic tickets before"

Does that imply that this cop thought, "this guy didn't pay his parking tickets so I'm going to kill him"?


You know that's not what happened, why would you try to portray it that way?

[Guest ONYX]

[quote name='BengalBacker' date='Sep 5 2005, 02:17 AM']You said:

"As if a cop has ever killed an unarmed black person over unpaid traffic tickets before"

Does that imply that this cop thought, "this guy didn't pay his parking tickets so I'm going to kill him"?
You know that's not what happened, why would you try to portray it that way?
[right][post="142576"][/post][/right][/quote]

I wasnt tying to portray anything. This is factual. Timothy Thomas was a kid, who had a learning disability, who was black, had a warrant for his arrest due to upaid traffic tickets, when the police tried to aprehend him he freaked and ran, the police officer chased him into an one way alley in the middle of the night, the kid started to run toward the officer and the cop got scared and put a slug in his chest.
Thats what happen.
Was the kid a knucklehead= probably
Should he have tried to escape= No
Was lethal force needed=No
If the kid was white would he still be alive= Most likley

Anyway, it started some riot I think.

[Guest steggyD]

[quote]Police Specialist Andrew Nogueira was injured during the civil unrest [b]April 11, 2001[/b], while assigned to the mobile field force unit. After being dispatched to Vine and Green Streets for a “persons looting”, an unknown suspect appeared and fired one shot at Nogueira. The bullet hit his gun buckle ricocheting into his body armor. Uninjured, but stunned, Nogueira continued his career with the Cincinnati Police Department. 

Police Officer Craig Gregoire responded to a call to assist drug investigators on Donahue Street [b]January 31, 2001[/b]. Upon entering the building, Gregoire encountered Adam Wheeler who then brandished a gun. Gunfire was exchanged wounding Gregoire's right hand. As emerging officers' safety became compromised, Gregoire fired a final shot fatally wounding Wheeler. After his recovery, Gregoire continued his career with the Cincinnati Police Department. 

Police Officer Timothy Pappas responded to a robbery call at the intersection of Montgomery and Sampson on [b]November 8, 2000[/b]. During a struggle with Jeffrey Irons, an officer on scene was disarmed, and Irons fired three times at Pappas striking him in the forehead. A fellow officer fired one fatal shot ending the suspect's agression. After a full recovery, officer Pappas continued his career with the Cincinnati Police Department.[/quote]

[quote]Police Officer Kevin C. Crayon P347

Age: 40

Served 4 years 2 months
July 7, 1996 to September 1, 2000

On [b]September 1, 2000[/b], Police Officer Kevin Crayon found a young male black (later identified as a 12 year old) getting in to drive a car in the UDF parking lot at Colerain and Kirby. Officer Crayon ordered him to stop. Instead, the youth backed the car toward some children and their mother in the parking lot. Officer Crayon ran to and reached into the car, apparently to stop its progress rearward motion. He was successful, but the youth pulled forward and onto Colerain Avenue with the officer in tow. While being dragged, after traveling and accelerating some 800 feet, Officer Crayon shot the youth and was released from the car. His momentum carried him to the undercarrage of a car stopped in traffic. The impact killed him instantly. The youth struck another car and continued onto his home where his family called for EMS response. The youth died of his wound a few hours later. Officer Crayon, a United States Army veteran, left his mother, Barbara Crayon Allbright, three children, Kevin II, Christopher, and Brittany, and three brothers and a sister.[/quote]

Wouldn't you be nervous too? Maybe the police officers should say that there is a prejudice against them. Maybe they should protest and riot.


By the way, all the dates I highlighted, happened to be around the same timeframe as this shooting of the unarmed man.

[Guest ONYX]

[quote name='steggyD' date='Sep 5 2005, 02:28 AM']Wouldn't you be nervous too? Maybe the police officers should say that there is a prejudice against them. Maybe they should protest and riot.

[right][post="142578"][/post][/right][/quote]

Well..... actually they have already.
They made some movies about it.
"Rosewood"
"Mississippi Burning"
"Rodney King II: The Final Beat Down"

or just look in any history book or encyclopedia
and look through the dates from about 1776-1965,
Im sure you will find plenty police protesting black people.

......ok,ok, I made up the Rodney King movie, Im getting silly need some sleep.

[Nati Ice]

ill tell you what if im in a dark alley and a person ive been pursuing runs at me when i think theres shit in his hand id "put a slug" in his ass too... black, white, purple, or fucking pink ill lay the little piece of shit out just the same, im not going to take the chance after he fails to comply, fuck that... he does not attack anyone, especially a police officer, alone, in a dark alley, and especially not after being chased for having a warrent out for his arrest

[Guest BengalBacker]

[quote name='sneaky' date='Sep 5 2005, 02:28 AM']I wasnt tying to portray anything.
[right][post="142577"][/post][/right][/quote]

Bullshit. Of course you were.

[quote name='sneaky' date='Sep 5 2005, 02:28 AM']This is factual. Timothy Thomas was a kid, who had a learning disability, who was black, had a warrant for his arrest due to upaid traffic tickets, when the police tried to aprehend him he freaked and ran, the police officer chased him into an one way alley in the middle of the night, the kid started to run toward the officer  and the cop got scared and put a slug in his chest.
[right][post="142577"][/post][/right][/quote]
This is also factual. The cop only knew he had 14 arrest warrants. He didn't know what they were for. The kid ran, the cop chased him, the kid reached for his pants, the cop shot him.

That's a little different than:

"As if a cop has ever killed an unarmed black person over unpaid traffic tickets before"

[quote name='sneaky' date='Sep 5 2005, 02:28 AM']Thats what happen.
Was the kid a knucklehead= probably
Should he have tried to escape= No
Was lethal force needed=No
If the kid was white would he still be alive= Most likley

Anyway, it started some riot I think.
[right][post="142577"][/post][/right][/quote]


Turns out lethal force wasn't needed. Did the cop know that in the instant he had to make a decision? No. How many Cincinnati cops have been killed by young blacks versus young whites? Look it up.

People like YOU are the biggest reason for the racial problems that exist today. You're so comfortable with your victimhood mentality because it gives you a feeling of moral superiority and an excuse to blame others, that you will twist facts to support that "victimhood". You like to have that built in excuse for personal and collective irresponsible and criminal behavior. Blame whitey for all of your problems and you never have to question your own behavior.

Is there anyone on this board who would accumulate 14 unpaid tickets, ignore warrants against them, run from the cops, reach for their pants when stopped, and not expect to get shot? Black or white? If I ever did that I would absolutely expect to get shot, or the cops aren't doing their job to protect innocent citizens.

[Nati Ice]

OH NO, NO... NO, NO, NO Backer... this kid had a "learning disability," it just wasnt his fault... it was "da man's"

[Guest steggyD]

I try not to get parking tickets in the first place. Last one I had cost me about $65.

[Guest RudiRudiRudi]

To sneaky:

all i have to say to you is you need to shut your mouth unless you have been in the position where you have to decide whether to take someones life to save your own or not, you have no idea what was going through roachs mind, you havent been there, i have, you dont say oh well maybe he wont shoot me, you pull out your gun and you protect yourself, you cant blame an officer for doing his job as much as you cant defend someone who is breaking the law....

and as it was said before he wasnt killed because he didnt pay parking tickets he was killed because he ran away from police and gave that officer reason to believe his life was in danger how the hell can you judge someone for that and defend criminals?

[Guest RudiRudiRudi]

oh and bengal backer thank you, you are the type of person who restores my faith in society....

[Guest BengalBacker]

[quote name='RudiRudiRudi' date='Sep 5 2005, 03:35 AM']oh and bengal backer thank you, you are the type of person who restores my faith in society....
[right][post="142587"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote]


I call 'em like I see 'em.

[Guest BlackJesus]

[b]why didn't the cop shoot at his legs or lower body ?[/b]

[Guest BengalBacker]

[quote name='BlackJesus' date='Sep 5 2005, 04:54 AM'][b]why didn't the cop shoot at his legs or lower body ?[/b]
[right][post="142593"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote]

Because you shoot to kill, or you're likely to die. Even several shots directly to vital areas don't always drop someone immediately. How would shooting his legs have stopped him from getting off several rounds?

[Guest BlackJesus]

[quote]Because you shoot to kill, or you're likely to die. Even several shots directly to vital areas don't always drop someone immediately. How would shooting his legs have stopped him from getting off several rounds?[/quote]

[i][b]I didn't know he was carrying a gun [img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/33.gif[/img]

so what you are basically saying is that cops who are unsure if retarded teenagers that they chase into dark alleys, who are only wanted for traffic tickets, should immediatley shoot to kill, because they are unsure if they are carrying a gun when they move towards the officer. [/b][/i]

[Guest BengalBacker]

[quote name='BlackJesus' date='Sep 5 2005, 05:22 AM'][i][b]I didn't know he was carrying a gun  [img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/33.gif[/img]

so what you are basically saying is that cops who are unsure if retarded teenagers that they chase into dark alleys, who are only wanted for traffic tickets, should immediatley shoot to kill, because they are unsure if they are carrying a gun when they move towards the officer.  [/b][/i]
[right][post="142602"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote]


What I'm saying is, you don't shoot at all unless you think your life, or an innocent citizen's life is in danger. If you feel it's necessary to shoot, you shoot to kill.

The cop didn't know his warrants were for traffic violations. Even if it was for jaywalking, when the kid ran, stopped, and reached for his pants, the cop had to make a split second decision. If you were in the cop's position, are you sure you wouldn't have made the same split second decision? Maybe if the same thing happened again, the cop would have hesitated. Maybe that would have resulted in the kid just being arrested. Maybe the next time the cop hesitates, the kid does have a gun and kills the cop. It's real easy to judge the cop in hindsight, knowing the kid was unarmed. The cop didn't know that.

The way you phrased your question is complete and utter bullshit and you know it. If your arguments have merit, there shouldn't be a need to twist them into such one-sided nonsense.

[Guest ONYX]

[quote name='BengalBacker' date='Sep 5 2005, 02:52 AM']Bullshit. Of course you were.
This is also factual. The cop only knew he had 14 arrest warrants. He didn't know what they were for. The kid ran, the cop chased him, the kid reached for his pants, the cop shot him.

That's a little different than:

"As if a cop has ever killed an unarmed black person over unpaid traffic tickets before"
Turns out lethal force wasn't needed. Did the cop know that in the instant he had to make a decision? No. How many Cincinnati cops have been killed by young blacks versus young whites? Look it up.

People like YOU are the biggest reason for the racial problems that exist today. You're so comfortable with your victimhood mentality because it gives you a feeling of moral superiority and an excuse to blame others, that you will twist facts to support that "victimhood". You like to have that built in excuse for personal and collective irresponsible and criminal behavior. Blame whitey for all of your problems and you never have to question your own behavior.

Is there anyone on this board who would accumulate 14 unpaid tickets, ignore warrants against them, run from the cops, reach for their pants when stopped, and not expect to get shot? Black or white? If I ever did that I would absolutely expect to get shot, or the cops aren't doing their job to protect innocent citizens.
[right][post="142582"][/post][/right][/quote]


"How many Cincinnati cops have been killed by young blacks versus young whites? Look it up."

[b]Since 1975, 10 Cincinnati police officers have been killed in the line of duty.
2 were killed by white men.
8 were killed by black men.
1 of the 10 officers died falling off a bridge while attemting to chase a black suspect.
2 of the 10 police officers were also black.
So 6 police officers were killed by black men in the last 30 years.
and 1 of them fell of a bridge.[/b]

[url="http://www.cincinnati-oh.gov/police/pages/-5372-/"]http://www.cincinnati-oh.gov/police/pages/-5372-/[/url]

[b]Since 1995, 16 unarmed black men have been killed by Cincinnati police officers.
Since 1995. there have been no reported cases of unarmed white men being killed by Cincinnati police officers.[/b]

"People like YOU are the biggest reason for the racial problems that exist today. You're so comfortable with your victimhood mentality because it gives you a feeling of moral superiority and an excuse to blame others, that you will twist facts to support that "victimhood". You like to have that built in excuse for personal and collective irresponsible and criminal behavior. Blame whitey for all of your problems and you never have to question your own behavior."

[b]Fuck you and your "redneck mentality". You stereotyping cocksucker. You don't know me, I have never been arrested.....fuck you again.[/b]

"Is there anyone on this board who would accumulate 14 unpaid tickets, ignore warrants against them, run from the cops, reach for their pants when stopped, and not expect to get shot? Black or white? If I ever did that I would absolutely expect to get shot, or the cops aren't doing their job to protect innocent citizens"

[b]Has it ever occurred to you that maybe the reason why he ran was because he heard about one of the 14 unarmed black men before him being killed by police officers? As unrational as it sounds, he ran. He ended up being the 15th black man killed by Cincinnati police officer. The 16th came in 2003. So cops are doing their jobs shooting unarmed people ignoring unpaid tickets because it protects innocent citizens?[/b]

[Guest ONYX]

[quote name='RudiRudiRudi' date='Sep 5 2005, 03:33 AM']To sneaky:

all i have to say to you is you need to shut your mouth unless you have been in the position where you have to decide whether to take someones life to save your own or not, you have no idea what was going through roachs mind, you havent been there, i have, you dont say oh well maybe he wont shoot me, you pull out your gun and you protect yourself, you cant blame an officer for doing his job as much as you cant defend someone who is breaking the law....

and as it was said before he wasnt killed because he didnt pay parking tickets he was killed because he ran away from police and gave that officer reason to believe his life was in danger how the hell can you judge someone for that and defend criminals?
[right][post="142586"][/post][/right][/quote]

<hauking another loogie>

[Guest ONYX]

[quote name='Nati Ice' date='Sep 5 2005, 02:56 AM']OH NO, NO... NO, NO, NO Backer... this kid had a "learning disability," it just wasnt his fault... it was "da man's"

[right][post="142583"][/post][/right][/quote]

You have a learning disability and its not your fault. It was "da man'ns" you got your genes from.

[|Bunghole|]

I think the onset of the regular season is going to be a powerfully unifying force....and from the way the board's been polarizing lately, we could use it....

[Guest BlackJesus]

[quote]I think the onset of the regular season is going to be a powerfully unifying force....and from the way the board's been polarizing lately, we could use it....[/quote]

[i][b]for what it is worth on my end I still like everyone just as much as the first day on here. I don't have anything against Old , Backer, or Rick etc personally.... although I disagree with them on things. But yeah the season is needed.... [/b][/i]

[Guest steggyD]

Moral of the story is, do not run from the police officers. Remember what I said earlier. The parents threaten the children with police officers and the children learn to fear the officer. If the child had no fear of the officer, he would have stayed where he was and everything would have been just fine. Thanks everyone, for helping me prove my point.

[sean]

[quote name='sneaky' date='Sep 5 2005, 10:10 AM']"How many Cincinnati cops have been killed by young blacks versus young whites? Look it up."




[b]Since 1995, 16 unarmed black men have been killed by Cincinnati police officers.
Since 1995. there have been no reported cases of unarmed white men being killed by Cincinnati police officers.[/b][/quote]

I don't know where you got your facts, but here is the truth[url="http://www.enquirer.com/editions/2001/04/15/loc_stories_of.html"]about the "unarmed' black men.[/url]

[jza10304]

[quote name='BlackJesus' date='Sep 4 2005, 09:48 PM'][i][b]Say what you mean... don't hide behind vague language

what are we writing a bible ?[/b][/i]
[right][post="142429"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote]
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