MichaelWeston Posted September 5, 2021 Report Share Posted September 5, 2021 Now that things are a bit settled going into the year. Here is my take on the offseason. RB Mixon 25 Perine 23 Evans 25 PS: Patrick-Williams I wasn't for the Bernard cut. I didn't believe we should release a veteran known for his pass blocking when Burrow was coming off an injury and the offensive line, while improved, was still messy. Beyond that I think they nailed everything else. Perine showed at the end of last year that he can put up stats in a pinch. Chris Evans was a brilliant find who I think will see lots of snaps this year (my dynasty league teams are evidence of this). The debate was often who to keep as the 4th RB and I thought there was something wrong with that debate. If both Patrick and Williams were deserving, cut both and let them go to the practice squad. It also helps that I do a project that looks at all the rosters in the league and knew there was tons of comparable RB depth. I think it was Joe Goodberry who said to draft a RB in Rd 6+ every year because the position is so hard to predict due to injury etc. I think that's brilliant. It wouldn't surprise me at all if Evans was the lead back here at some point. And I love Joe Mixon. [B]Grade: B+[/B] If the other backs can pass block this goes up. Additions: None (Brian Hill is a Free Agent) 2022 Outlook: Add a 6th-7th rounder and WR Chase 26 [B]Tate 22 [/B] PS: Williams-Irwin-Taylor WR Higgins 24 Morgan 22 WR Boyd 24 [B]Thomas 22[/B] I wanted Sewell over Chase. With that said I have absolutely no worries about Chase's drops. I don't think anyone should. He is going to play at least 3 years of this contract and we will keep giving him chances. He will eventually make plays or he won't. Regardless it's not like the other team will just leave him open and double up Higgins and Boyd all the time. I love Tate. He is a great 4th option and I'd like to see him more and more involved. Morgan stands out for special teams and has some untapped upside having been coached by Walters in college where he set records so it makes some sense that he is the 5th active on gameday. But, although I didn't think about it prior to cuts, this position logically is just like RB. We were debating Irwin and Taylor and should have just logically said we have them both AND Thomas and any of the 3 will probably make a similar impact on the game day roster. Having all 3 still in the fold is great. I also assume they hid Williams so to speak because he has the biggest upside of the group of 5 but is the rawest as he learns a new position. [B]Grade: A[/B] Additions: None (Alex Erickson is a Free Agent, John Brown too but he is likely to land in NO or KC) 2022 Outlook: Tate and Thomas will be able to walk. I don't think either have big markets and we'd welcome them both back. Morgan-Williams and Irwin would all be under contract. Being as top heavy as we are with 3 legit talents you can let the rest of the roster figure itself out. A mid round pick or a veteran on a team friendly deal make the most sense. TE [B]Uzomah 22[/B] Sample 23 Wilcox 22 PS: Moss-Schreck All this group is missing is a high end talent. And I don't believe this offseason was the one to invest in that. They swung for the fences a bit with Pro Wells and Cheyenne O'Grady and seemed to miss as neither is on even the practice squad. Uzomah is a glue player to this franchise chemistry and Sample isn't far off. This wasn't a position where I believed they should invest and they didn't. [B]Grade: A[/B] Additions: None 2022 Outlook: This is a tough one. We can probably upgrade from Uzomah on the field but not off. He has just 35 catches after signing a pretty lucrative deal. I would love to see them start putting a basketball player who is transitioning to the NFL on the PS every year. An uber athlete who needs seasoning. With 16 spots there are far worse ways to use a spot. K McPherson 25 P [B]Huber 22 [/B] PS: Chrisman LS [B]Harris 22[/B] I think it's odd for a fanbase to have affection for all of their special teamers but here we are. Harris and Huber are in the fabric of the team, veterans that have been here for as long as I can remember....I can't remember who our last punter was actually. McPherson wowed us all in the preseason after many of us, including me, questioned the wisdom of drafting a a player at a position where most fail with their original team. Even Chrisman has OSU ties. Overall I think their strategy was great. [B]Grade: A[/B] Additions: None 2022 Outlook: Huber (37 in 2022 season) has a built in replacement should he decide to retire. Harris (38 in 2022) doesn't have the same luxury. At some point this season it would be wise to grab his potential replacement on the practice squad to carry over to next year. LE Hubbard 26 Sample 25 IR: Hubert-Kareem-Ossai LT Reader 24 [B]Tupou 22[/B] Shelvin 25 PS: Spence-Wren RT [B]Ogunjobi 22 Hill 22 [/B] RE Hendrickson 25 Hodge 24 Ray 22 I hated losing Lawson and think that Hendrickson is a downgrade. I was worried we didn't do enough to get a second 3 technique and Ogunjobi was a gamble. When the dust settled, despite the injuries, I love what they did to remake this position. Only Hubbard returns from the very boring group we had year that couldn't get to the QB. [B]Grade: A[/B] Additions: Olivier Vernon. He was great last year and has ties to Anarumo. Who knows when his injury is cleared up though. 2022 Outlook: This position is going to be very deep next year. DE will probably go 7 deep. Free agents at DT in Ogunjobi-Hill and Tupou will cloud things but any of them could come back and are unlikely to be high priced. DT could be a major need next offseason or Ogunjobi (27) or even Hill (26) could come back long term. SLB Pratt 23 MLB Wilson 24 Bailey 24 PS: Bachie-Jones WLB Davis-Gaither 24 [B]Evans 22 [/B] I wanted Bynes back but other than that I once again love what they did. Evans seems to be progressing. Bynes is on a practice squad back in Baltimore so available if we need him. Grabbing Bachie was a nice add as well. [B]Grade: A[/B] Additions: None (Josh Bynes on Ravens PS) 2022 Outlook: This will all depend on progress. Outside of the OL this is the biggest sink or swim position on the team. Not one of the 5 players at the position has proven themselves yet but all have shown something to lead us to believe they could settle the position. We could be looking for a lead LB next year or depth. S Bell 23 [B]Allen 22 [/B] PS: Henderson S [B]Bates 22[/B] Wilson 23 Probably the strongest position on the team. Allen was a great addition and Wilson and Henderson are both still progressing. Getting Henderson back to the PS is a huge positive. [B]Grade: A[/B] Additions: None (Shawn Williams was released in Arizona) 2022 Outlook: I have no doubt Bates is back for 2022 but beyond I am not sure. I hope they don't play hardball and they bring him back long term but I believe they Franchise him if not. I was thinking this could be a spot for an early draft pick to eventually replace Bell and didn't realize he is only 26...younger than Wilson. CB Waynes 23 [B]Apple 22 [/B]McCloud 24 IR: Lewis CB Awuzie 24 [B]Phillips 22 [/B] PS: Brown-Rose CB Hilton 25 Davis 22 Another position where I love everything they did. Invested heavily and wisely at the position and then backended it with potential upgrades. Added a high reward low risk guy in Apple. Rewarded Davis for his hardwork. Through 3 guys on the practice squad to hedge for the future. i am not sure how I feel about the McCloud signing but I trust them. Grade: A Additions: None 2022 Outlook: A lot of this depends on Wayne's health. If he is healthy and can play up to his contract then we won't necessarily need an early investment. He will be a Free Agent after next year so it wouldn't hurt. QB Burrow 25 [B]Allen 22[/B] This is one of only 2 positions where I think they errored and they should still do more. I hope they agree and they are only carrying 2 in order to try to grab someone. Word was they tried to grab Sinnett after the Dolphins game but he decided to go to their practice squad. I don't expect a backup to be flawless but I lean heavily to guys with athleticism and experience. I want someone who can come in the second half of a game and run for a couple first downs. I don't mind Allen but they needed to hedge. After final cuts you saw a bunch of guys swap teams to others practice squads. It might be telling we didn't get one. I am hopeful we still have our eyes out. [B]Grade: D[/B] Additions: to PS: Newman-Ta'amu (Driskel-Texans, Hundley-Colts, Finley is a Free Agent) 2022 Outlook: Burrow is great but I want to at least have a mobile option in camp. At this point, unless there are other cuts I would add Ta'amu for the season and see where things land. LT Williams 24 Prince 24 IR: Adeniji LG [B]Spain 22[/B] Smith 25 PS: Sutherland C Hopkins 23 Hill 25 RG Su'a-Filo 23 Carman 25 RT [B]Reiff 22 Johnson 22[/B] This is the position where I disagreed the most with where they landed. We essentially have 4 rookies as backups on the OL and we know eventually they will see time. I don't have any qualms with any of the 5 backups individually, but collectively it's a position that is just too thin to inspire confidence. Losing Price and Jordan added to that although individually I was glad to see them go. I would like for them to add at least 1 veteran to the mix. [B]Grade: C[/B] Additions: Okung-Wagner-Reiter-DiCastro-Easton-Skura Trade-Duvernay-Tardiff (Bobby Hart is available too) 2022 Outlook: With 3 true rookies as backups and potential growth from both Adeniji and Prince we could actually be in a much better place by the end of next year. It wouldn't be a surprise if Carman or Smith was a starter by next year. RT would still be a huge question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cricket Posted September 5, 2021 Report Share Posted September 5, 2021 Nice job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griever Posted September 5, 2021 Report Share Posted September 5, 2021 Love reading through well thought out analysis like this, well done Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie_B Posted September 5, 2021 Report Share Posted September 5, 2021 Quote We essentially have 4 rookies as backups on the OL and we know eventually they will see time. Carman Jackson, back up to Su'a Filo Trey Hill, back up to Hopkins D'ante Smith back up to Spain Who's the 4th? Williams back up is Prince (though more likely Reiff kicks over and Fred Johnson plays RT) he's a 3rd year Reiff's backup is Johnson he's also a 3rd year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichaelWeston Posted September 5, 2021 Author Report Share Posted September 5, 2021 17 minutes ago, Jamie_B said: Carman Jackson, back up to Su'a Filo Trey Hill, back up to Hopkins D'ante Smith back up to Spain Who's the 4th? Williams back up is Prince (though more likely Reiff kicks over and Fred Johnson plays RT) he's a 3rd year Reiff's backup is Johnson he's also a 3rd year. Prince only has 4 career games so I included him but technically yo are right. I don't know what to call his opt out year but he's been out of college for 3 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie_B Posted September 5, 2021 Report Share Posted September 5, 2021 3 minutes ago, MichaelWeston said: Prince only has 4 career games so I included him but technically yo are right. I don't know what to call his opt out year but he's been out of college for 3 years. Ah got it, that's why I was confused. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
membengal Posted September 5, 2021 Report Share Posted September 5, 2021 Either one trusts Pollack or one doesn't. If Pollack is on board with the youth at back-up pushing to start, than I will be as well. I do think Reiff was a crucial off-season signing, and my being a bit chill about the state of the line is rooted in having two competent Tackles. That's gonna help, I suspect. ETA - nice write-up, MW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spicoli Posted September 5, 2021 Report Share Posted September 5, 2021 Nice work MW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UncleEarl Posted September 6, 2021 Report Share Posted September 6, 2021 7 hours ago, membengal said: Either one trusts Pollack or one doesn't. If Pollack is on board with the youth at back-up pushing to start, than I will be as well. I do think Reiff was a crucial off-season signing, and my being a bit chill about the state of the line is rooted in having two competent Tackles. That's gonna help, I suspect. ETA - nice write-up, MW. Coaches aren’t miracle workers. Allegedly Pollack was supposed to make Carman a day one starter. Did he fail? Or, was the combination of Carman’s conditioning, lack of experience at guard, and general talent level not enough to make that happen? Most likely the latter. The concern over the lack of experienced backups on the OL is legitimate. If this starting group can stay healthy for a while it’s a good gamble. If a player or two goes down early….🙈 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
membengal Posted September 6, 2021 Report Share Posted September 6, 2021 You may have preferred Carmen straight to starting, I didn't. My preferred o-line was vets across the board. So, no, I am not particularly chuffed over inexperience on the bench. If Carmen were starting people would whine about inexperience starting. You want to cycle in new blood you are gonna have to live with inexperience. I mean, FFS, the Chiefs are starting THREE players who have never taken a snap in the NFL before on their o-line. So, yeah, having inexperienced guys backing up and pushing to start isn't something that I hate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|High School Harry| Posted September 6, 2021 Report Share Posted September 6, 2021 17 minutes ago, membengal said: You may have preferred Carmen straight to staring, I didn't. My preferred o-line was vets across the board. So, no, I am not particularly chuffed over inexperience on the bench. If Carmen were starting people would whine about inexperience starting. You want to cycle in new blood you are gonna have to live with inexperience. I mean, FFS, the Chiefs are starting THREE players who have never taken a snap in the NFL before on their o-line. So, yeah, having inexperienced guys backing up and pushing to start isn't something that I hate. good point and well said. After the draft, we expected them ALL to start we were so giggidy about it. We'll have two at least starting, Ja'Marr of Vaseline and the kicker, McPherson. Others will get significant playing time in the rotation. Hodge and Shelvin come to mind off the top of my head. I admit to being a bit disappointed but am very OK with letting him grow into and earn it. Look what happened when Michael Jordan was put in too soon. But, yeah, I'm very encouraged about this season and am looking forward to 1 o'clock next Sunday. Long range forecast is 84º and chance of pop up thunderstorms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UncleEarl Posted September 6, 2021 Report Share Posted September 6, 2021 29 minutes ago, membengal said: You may have preferred Carmen straight to staring, I didn't. My preferred o-line was vets across the board. So, no, I am not particularly chuffed over inexperience on the bench. If Carmen were starting people would whine about inexperience starting. You want to cycle in new blood you are gonna have to live with inexperience. I mean, FFS, the Chiefs are starting THREE players who have never taken a snap in the NFL before on their o-line. So, yeah, having inexperienced guys backing up and pushing to start isn't something that I hate. My comments weren’t meant to suggest I wanted Carman to start. The Bengals themselves promoted that idea. It was more about Pollack and folks expectations. Coaches can’t make chicken salad out of chicken shit, which is why Price, Jordan, and Hart are gone. Now Pollack is short on experience, especially the backups. It’s not enough to “believe” in Pollack. He has to get good players to work with. That is dependent on the entire Bengals organization. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
membengal Posted September 6, 2021 Report Share Posted September 6, 2021 I don't why you assume Smith, Hill and Carmen are not "good" players. But, you do you. tl/dr - it's better for Burrow if the rookies pushing for playing time have to fight past vets Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UncleEarl Posted September 6, 2021 Report Share Posted September 6, 2021 5 minutes ago, membengal said: I don't why you assume Smith, Hill and Carmen are not "good" players. But, you do you. tl/dr - it's better for Burrow if the rookies pushing for playing time have to fight past vets I never said that. They are players with zero NFL experience. On the other hand if they were good enough they would start. Yes, all three of these guys could end up good. At the same time having three guys with zero experience as backups on the interior is not optimal. Experience does matter. Hopefully they get time to learn before they have to play. I agree with your last paragraph. I just wish it weren’t all three of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I_C_Deadpeople Posted September 6, 2021 Report Share Posted September 6, 2021 And it does not help that over the last 10 years we have basically drafted no one of value on the OL (Jonah exception), makes one wonder if the current 3 new draftees will work out at all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
membengal Posted September 6, 2021 Report Share Posted September 6, 2021 I mean, it's not like they should stop drafting linemen because of that. You keep drafting and figure variance will toss you a bone. Jonah Williams and Trey Hopkins both home grown. It is not an impossible ask. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|Numbers| Posted September 6, 2021 Report Share Posted September 6, 2021 On 9/5/2021 at 1:43 AM, MichaelWeston said: ...while improved, was still messy ...too thin to inspire confidence Yup, that's not a good sign. Although I have more confidence in the line coach, he still doesn't play a single snap. A person could say that some of the additions and subtractions might equal an average line. Too many IFs to equal average. If healthy, if they play up to fill in the blank year, if they gel, if the coach can coach them up, if... I could if this to death. In the end or should I say beginning of the season will tell us all we need to know about this line. I'm hopeful but I'm not wagering money on the outcome. Forever the pessimistic optimist... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I_C_Deadpeople Posted September 6, 2021 Report Share Posted September 6, 2021 The one thing a good OL coach will do is to get 5 guys (barring injuries) to play as one unit - that is coaching and that is pretty important. Shithead Turner moved too many guys around and in and out - amongst his other faults. Pollack will at least do that, the rest is up to the ability of the players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gupps Posted September 7, 2021 Report Share Posted September 7, 2021 5 hours ago, I_C_Deadpeople said: And it does not help that over the last 10 years we have basically drafted no one of value on the OL (Jonah exception), makes one wonder if the current 3 new draftees will work out at all The 2015 draft absolutely killed the oline. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichaelWeston Posted September 7, 2021 Author Report Share Posted September 7, 2021 10 hours ago, membengal said: I don't why you assume Smith, Hill and Carmen are not "good" players. But, you do you. tl/dr - it's better for Burrow if the rookies pushing for playing time have to fight past vets You don't want Russel Bodine to walk in and start.....I agree 100%. Lets get to average with XSF and let Carmen and Smith fight like hell to be above average. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichaelWeston Posted September 7, 2021 Author Report Share Posted September 7, 2021 2 hours ago, gupps said: The 2015 draft absolutely killed the oline. We (I) talk a lot about losing Whitworth. And he was a huge loss. But the line was terrible his last year or too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|SF2| Posted September 7, 2021 Report Share Posted September 7, 2021 52 minutes ago, MichaelWeston said: We (I) talk a lot about losing Whitworth. And he was a huge loss. But the line was terrible his last year or too. Terrible is a little harsh but it was declining for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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