How Good is Joe Burrow

[WRAPradio]

How good is Joe, and how good could he be?

[WRAPradio]

I personally think he's good, but I don't think he can be the best player on the field and we win a SB.  I think he's a great leader and a very accurate passer.  What he may lack in arm strength he makes up for in anticipation and accuracy.  He's very mobile and seems to make pretty good reads.  He's less than 20 games into his career as of now so as he matures I think he'll make quicker decision which will only help him and the offensive line.  All in all, I'm glad he's on our side.

[|SF2|]

Every QB needs a great team around him. Ask Patrick Mahomes what it is like to try and win a Super Bowl after losing your two starting offensive tackles. 

[WRAPradio]

1 hour ago, SF2 said:

Every QB needs a great team around him. Ask Patrick Mahomes what it is like to try and win a Super Bowl after losing your two starting offensive tackles. 

 

My argument would be great vs. good.  If Mahomes had a good team (offensive line specifically) it may have been a different story.  I think about QBs like Rodgers, Brady and Manning who may not have had GREAT teams around them, but they had solid teams.  Those QBs are able to elevate the talent around them and get players to play better than they would in other places.  

[spicoli]

30 minutes ago, WRAPradio said:

Those QBs are able to elevate the talent around them and get players to play better than they would in other places.  

 

And you don't think Burrow has those qualities?

[|High School Harry|]

Carson Palmer could have been great with a good team around him.

Told to me by a friend and no ninja.

 

And back to the concept that there are quarterbacks in the Hall of Fame who

are at least equal to and less than Kenny Anderson ie Dan Fouts and Phil Sims.

[|High School Harry|]

6 minutes ago, spicoli said:

 

And you don't think Burrow has those qualities?

No offense intended and not trying to start a flame war pissing contest

But, imho, give the guy time.

I mean, not so long ago he threw back to back to back interceptions* and

I don't think even David Klingler did that.

 

* the third interception was a deflection and  not actually his fault but still counted against him.

 

I think he has the tools, smarts and intangibles to be great but let's let it play out.

[UncleEarl]

34 minutes ago, WRAPradio said:

 

My argument would be great vs. good.  If Mahomes had a good team (offensive line specifically) it may have been a different story.  I think about QBs like Rodgers, Brady and Manning who may not have had GREAT teams around them, but they had solid teams.  Those QBs are able to elevate the talent around them and get players to play better than they would in other places.  

 

How in the world can you tell at this point?  He hasn't even played a full season and is coming off a major injury. 

 

Manning and Rodgers are so overrated.  Manning's playoff record and stats suck.  Both SBs he won he was carried by the rest of his team.  Big game choker.  Rodgers has a 11-9 record in playoff games.  I don't see either of these guys as players that elevate their team to win in the playoffs.  Give me Brady or Montana every time.

[spicoli]

31 minutes ago, High School Harry said:

No offense intended and not trying to start a flame war pissing contest

But, imho, give the guy time.

I mean, not so long ago he threw back to back to back interceptions* and

I don't think even David Klingler did that.

 

* the third interception was a deflection and  not actually his fault but still counted against him.

 

I think he has the tools, smarts and intangibles to be great but let's let it play out.

 

I said qualities. It has nothing to do with how he's played up to this point. 

It's all about his make up.

[Jason]

He is ascending.  A better O-line is still needed, but he can be an MVP level QB, or for this poll's options, best player on a SB winner.

[I_C_Deadpeople]

What this team should now have learned is - even if you have weak drafts you can fill gaps with free agency and turf the picks that don't work out. It has been a huge mistake in the past to hope and pray that picks turn out. I could care less if we drafted DJ Reader or signed him as a FA. I only care he is on the team. If we had drafted him, his second contract would be what we are currently paying him. Same goes for the OL - don't assume the picks from this year will result in a stud OL for the next 5 years. We cannot EVER have enough quality players. 

[|kennethmw|]

36 minutes ago, Jason said:

He is ascending.  A better O-line is still needed, but he can be an MVP level QB, or for this poll's options, best player on a SB winner.

 

Agreed.  I think he showed how well he understands and reads defenses on the QB draw that he saw and switched to during Sunday's game.  Is he still learning, YES, but I think he's heads and shoulders above the majority of the QB's at this point in his career.  

[WRAPradio]

6 hours ago, spicoli said:

 

And you don't think Burrow has those qualities?

 

I don’t think he does…and I hope I’m wrong.  IMO, he doesn’t have an elite skill; he’s good at a lot of things, but not elite at anything.  Granted, it’s only been 11 or so games into his career, but I could see him eventually being a top 8-12 QB in the league.  I’d love for him to prove me wrong and be the best in the league and win us 10 SBs.  

[|SF2|]

6 hours ago, High School Harry said:

Carson Palmer could have been great with a good team around him.

Told to me by a friend and no ninja.

 

And back to the concept that there are quarterbacks in the Hall of Fame who

are at least equal to and less than Kenny Anderson ie Dan Fouts and Phil Sims.

Simms isn’t in the Hall of Fame.  Anderson deserves to be in the Hall as does Fouts who is already in.  
 

Kenny would be in the Hall if Mike Brown didn’t own the team.  Hopefully, Whitworth doesn’t get the same treatment.  

[LostInDaJungle]

23 minutes ago, WRAPradio said:

 

I don’t think he does…and I hope I’m wrong.  IMO, he doesn’t have an elite skill; he’s good at a lot of things, but not elite at anything.  Granted, it’s only been 11 or so games into his career, but I could see him eventually being a top 8-12 QB in the league.  I’d love for him to prove me wrong and be the best in the league and win us 10 SBs.  

Hmm... As a former coach, I watched Joe burrow drop passes into spots most NFL guys can't make. Elite anticipation and touch.

 

He nuts up in big moments. Can't teach that.

 

It's subjective, and for our purposes it's a bunch of guys who don't know dick about playing QB in the NFL pontificating. Coaches and GM's still argue about what traits make the greats. 

[jrandom42]

Joe is so good, he may break Greg Cook's record of 9.41 yards/pass attempt, which I thought could never be broken.

[WRAPradio]

38 minutes ago, LostInDaJungle said:

Hmm... As a former coach, I watched Joe burrow drop passes into spots most NFL guys can't make. Elite anticipation and touch.

 

He nuts up in big moments. Can't teach that.

 

It's subjective, and for our purposes it's a bunch of guys who don't know dick about playing QB in the NFL pontificating. Coaches and GM's still argue about what traits make the greats. 

 

As a former coach, you know more than me!  As an arm chair QB, Joe just doesn’t pop off of the screen to me like some QBs.  Still super early in his career, I just don’t see an elite trait that would separate him from other good QBs.  With that being said, I would have said the same thing about Tom Brady 20 years ago so there’s that…

[Jason]

3 hours ago, WRAPradio said:

 

As a former coach, you know more than me!  As an arm chair QB, Joe just doesn’t pop off of the screen to me like some QBs.  Still super early in his career, I just don’t see an elite trait that would separate him from other good QBs.  With that being said, I would have said the same thing about Tom Brady 20 years ago so there’s that…

He doesn’t have the “elite” arm of Allen or Mahomes.  But his arm is good enough to make all the throws.  Where he is elite is anticipation, accuracy, competitiveness, and leadership. Remember, he was voted a captain as a rookie where most of the off season stuff was on zoom.  

[claptonrocks]

4 hours ago, LostInDaJungle said:

Hmm... As a former coach, I watched Joe burrow drop passes into spots most NFL guys can't make. Elite anticipation and touch.

 

He nuts up in big moments. Can't teach that.

 

It's subjective, and for our purposes it's a bunch of guys who don't know dick about playing QB in the NFL pontificating. Coaches and GM's still argue about what traits make the greats. 

Excellent.

I would add if Burrow has decent protection plus run game the sky is the limit..

If he doesnt he might be another Archie Manning or worse Greg Cook.

Build a line like Mayfield has..

 

 

[LostInDaJungle]

10 hours ago, WRAPradio said:

 

As a former coach, you know more than me!  As an arm chair QB, Joe just doesn’t pop off of the screen to me like some QBs.  Still super early in his career, I just don’t see an elite trait that would separate him from other good QBs.  With that being said, I would have said the same thing about Tom Brady 20 years ago so there’s that…

Touchy much Francis?

 

A player is more than just one or two traits. Andy Dalton had elite level accuracy on throws over the middle. It's why he can be deadly at times. However, his size and demeanor don't add up to an elite level talent. 2 inches taller? Maybe. A little less nervous in big moments? Maybe elite.

 

Tom Brady? I can't really tell you the one elite talent he has OTHER than anticipation and touch. Aaron Rodgers looks UGLY back there. Terrible mechanics. Brett Farve was a turnover machine to start his career. Carson Palmer was the second coming of Sammy Baugh in 2002. Ryan Leaf looked just as good as Peyton Manning. Kurt Warner was bagging groceries.

If I'm being objective... (That's what I meant by that, relax) Joe Burrow has shown some elite traits. Throwing guys open, dropping balls in the basket. Skying a ball 30 yards in the air before the WR even makes his break to rain it down from the cheap seats. He's had one or two every game that have made me say "Damn".

But, again, it's subjective. If you know exactly what traits in what ratio makes for an elite NFL QB, god bless you. Mike Brown hasn't gotten close in 40 years. I see some elite traits in Burrow, but he's never going to be a HOF QB doing rehab on his MCL. There's not a great QB you can mention who didn't struggle behind bad O-Lines at some point in their career. We'll never know how good Matt Stafford could have been on the Patriots. Who remembers Drew Bledsoe hitting the sidelines on a rope? Why Brady and NOT Bledsoe?

At the end of the day, he's a second year player coming off of an MCL. I wasn't expecting Mike Vick. But I also think it's a stretch to expect a 40 year old John Elway at this point either. He's a work in progress and he shows a lot of promise. If your point is that he's "Just a guy"... No. He has some wow moments every game.

[Hooky]

20 hours ago, High School Harry said:

No offense intended and not trying to start a flame war pissing contest

But, imho, give the guy time.

I mean, not so long ago he threw back to back to back interceptions* and

I don't think even David Klingler did that.

 

* the third interception was a deflection and  not actually his fault but still counted against him.

 

I think he has the tools, smarts and intangibles to be great but let's let it play out.

The third interception was his fault. He threw the ball. He forced it in the shadow of a huge DL towering over him. You can say that you can't blame him for trying to make a play at that point in the game, but it was still his fault.

 

With that said, who knows what kind of career he will have. As somebody mentioned, any QB can win with a good team around him. Trent Dilfer. Whatever Johnson something from the bucs first super bowl win. Foles. I think we could win a SB with him if the defense elevates with the way they are progressing and a smart offensive game plan. But a QB can't win a Super Bowl.

[claptonrocks]

19 hours ago, Jason said:

He doesn’t have the “elite” arm of Allen or Mahomes.  But his arm is good enough to make all the throws.  Where he is elite is anticipation, accuracy, competitiveness, and leadership. Remember, he was voted a captain as a rookie where most of the off season stuff was on zoom.  

Yep..

[LostInDaJungle]

It's always interesting... Plenty of "Great" QB's who make the team around them better in year 4 who turn into average guys in year 6.

I'm reading back over the Mahomes love... If the team has success, Mahomes made the guys around him "better". When they start losing he won't be so good no more.

How many years are we removed from that being DeShaun Watson? Or Russel Wilson. Or Matt Ryan. Or any of 100 other guys this board was willing to trade Dalton for.

 

If history is anything to judge by, Burrow will get us to five straight super bowls, lose all 5, and have people on this board act like he totally sucks.

[Griever]

https://www.si.com/nfl/bengals/gm-report/kurt-warner-praises-joe-burrow-explains-what-makes-him-great

Warner took a look at Burrow's Week 4 performance against the Jaguars in his latest film breakdown. He gives some great insight on the Bengals' young phenom.

 

 

 

[NCStripes]

24 minutes ago, Griever said:

https://www.si.com/nfl/bengals/gm-report/kurt-warner-praises-joe-burrow-explains-what-makes-him-great

Warner took a look at Burrow's Week 4 performance against the Jaguars in his latest film breakdown. He gives some great insight on the Bengals' young phenom.

 

 

 

Good stuff, thanks