The Death of Competence

[Guest BlackJesus]

[b][u]The Death of Competence
By BlackJesus
9/7/05[/u]


As a possible 40,000 corpses float dead throughout New Orleans I am soberly reminded that Americans are reaping the effects of valuing anecdotal or philosophical characteristics over competence in our politicians

I myself am guilty of this as well.

Think about national campaigns for President although this applies to all politicians. Americans are usually concerned with:

- What the candidates look like
- Whether they like their wife
- What religion they are
- What they did in College 30 years ago
- What they were doing in Vietnam
- If they have children
- Their philosophical stance on many issues that a President can’t even affect
- How much money they have made in their life
- If they went a good college, and then what their grades were there
- Whether the candidates are “likeable” and friendly
- Whether you can picture yourself having a Beer with the guy
- If he comes off as a “real” American (Whatever that Means)
- If he speaks French…. (this is a huge negative)
- If he is hip to popular culture
- If he has ever cheated on his wife
- How many wife’s he has ever had
- What his parents did
- What race he is
- What gender he is (must be male for President usually)
- How old he is
- How tall he is
- How fat he is
- Whether he has ever spoken to Jane Fonda (also a huge negative)
- What recreational sports he participates in (they must be manly type sports and not yuppie ones – Wind surfing is catastrophic to polling numbers)

And the last thing that most often always goes unnoticed is:

Is he a Competent Person and Leader?

[u]Now competence to me is [/u]
- The ability think on their feet
- The ability to understand the large picture and ramifications of ones actions
- Overall intelligence and understanding of repercussions of decisions
- The ability to micro manage and choose effective people to carry out tasks
- Sound Judgment on what makes someone qualified, and thus the ability to choose the right people for the job
- Being on the ball when disaster strikes.
- Knowing when something is not working


To me New Orleans is a perfect example of how Americans have been choosing leaders based on the wrong attributes myself included. In the 04’ Presidential election, I thought Kerry was a French speaking, wind surfing, gold digging, yuppie ass, Jane Fonda rallying, stiff, goofy lurch looking, flip flopper (as if changing when you are wrong is bad).

Bush was painted as a steadfast (this can be bad when you are stuck in quicksand), personable, everyday American guy, friendly, Guy who you can have a beer with and will watch a baseball game with you.

Now nowhere in here was the Question asked:

[color="red"]Who is more competent? [/color]

It never is and in New Orleans and Iraq we are seeing the effects of having a President that is likeable, friendly, personable, and engaging in a bumbling nice kind of way…. But INCOMPETENT!!! Bush as he strummed Guitar and played Golf on Tuesday as New Orleans went under water was still a nice guy, he was still much more normal looking than Lurch…… he wasn’t a “French surrender monkey loving commie”….. But he was still incompetent for the Job of President… And with the amount dead that we lost in all of Vietnam potentially floating throughout the city of Jazz...... some are waking up to that. [/b]

[Guest oldschooler]

I think Bush has done a better than average job all things considered.
He was handed a bunch of shit ...and in some cases he had no choice
but to make a shit sandwich. I don`t agree with everything he does.
And he did drop the ball a little at first in New Orleans.
He should have stepped up faster than he did. But once he DID
step up...things got done.

I just think for 2 of the worst disasters to EVER hit our Nation...
to be during his Presidency... he brought the Nation
together and made them focus on the job at hand BOTH TIMES...
to me that equals a good leader and that he IS competent...

[Guest bengalrick]

[url="http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1478997/posts"]click here[/url]

i think you've got the wrong "incompetent" people [img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/3.gif[/img] very interesting stuff in there...

you say that bush was ignoring the storm/flood in tuesday, august 30th right?? explain this picture taken on august 28th then??

[img]http://us.news3.yimg.com/us.i2.yimg.com/p/nm/20050829/mdf47252.jpg[/img]

[i]President Bush is handed a map by Deputy Chief of Staff Joe Hagin during a video teleconference with federal and state emergency management organizations on hurricane Katrina from his Crawford ranch, August 28, 2005. [b]The President approved major disaster declarations for the states of Louisiana and Mississippi, clearing the way for the use of federal money to help respond to Hurricane Katrina, the White House said.[/b] [b]In addition, the President urged the governor of Louisiana and mayor or New Orleans to issue mandatory evacuation orders.[/b][/i]


how many lives were saved b/c Bush talked the governor to do the mandatory evacuation?? how many more lives would have been saved if that stupid incompetent bitch would have issued that evac the second he said it, instead of waiting ANOTHER 24 HOURS!!!!???!??!?

[Guest BlackJesus]

[quote]I just think for 2 of the worst disasters to EVER hit our Nation...
to be during his Presidency...[/quote]

[color="blue"][i][b]I think if you are honest with yourself and look back at 9/11 it is clear that the nation turned to Rudi Guillianni. As Bush was apporached with word of the attack, he froze. Then that entire Day he was flying around in Air force one to Nebraska etc... Meanwhile on the ground we had a amazingly competent (Republican) Leader in Guillianni. He coordinated the aftermath... and it wasn't until late that night (which I remember vividly as I was waiting in a 4 hour gas line) that Bush came on the radio and gave his speech. I am trying my hardest to really discuss this and not use "extremist" language... but Bush always seems to be about 24 Hours behind the ball.... and in Disater that means a lot. [/b][/i][/color]

[Jamie_B]

In reference to 9/11 Bush was kept in AF1 because during a time of unknown crisis as it was the #1 thing is to protect the president, regardless of ideology, however its not as if AF1 is some commercial plane and he has no options for leading, however you must also consider every president has to be prepped of what the situation is and then discuss with his advisors what the best possible course of action should be, given the extreme circumstances of the situation I would say the radio speech given at the time it was given was appropriate.

Figure out what is going on and what you’re going to do about it first, coddle me and tell me it’s going to be ok after that.

[Guest bengalrick]

[quote name='BlackJesus' date='Sep 7 2005, 10:12 AM'][color="blue"][i][b]I think if you are honest with yourself and look back at 9/11 it is clear that the nation turned to Rudi Guillianni.  As Bush was apporached with word of the attack, he froze.  Then that entire Day he was flying around in Air force one to Nebraska etc... Meanwhile on the ground we had a amazingly competent (Republican) Leader in Guillianni.  He coordinated the aftermath... and it wasn't until late that night (which I remember vividly as I was waiting in a 4 hour gas line) that Bush came on the radio and gave his speech.  I am trying my hardest to really discuss this and not use "extremist" language... but Bush always seems to be about 24 Hours behind the ball.... and in Disater that means a lot.    [/b][/i][/color]
[right][post="143670"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote]

bush had a 91% approval rating for handling 9/11... sure, in the first hours, rudi was the man that held the ship together... bush's speechs and the bull horn were EXACTLY what this country needed...

[Guest BlackJesus]

[color="green"][b]Rick.... The point is not that he didn't watch the Weatehr Channel and know the storm was coming... Hell I knew that. The point was that he

- Choose a Unqualified friend who was in charge of Race Horses to head up FEMA
- Choose an unqualified lawyer friend to head up the Dept of Homeland Security who has no experience
- Did not even leave his vacation till 2 days after the storm
- Upon having the Feds take over in New Orleans was terribly slow in getting relif and supplies to those in need (Chertoff mentioned on Thurs that he wasn't even aware that people had been locked in the Convention center since Monday)
- Bush said that noone suspected that the Levees would fail dispite the fact that he recieved briefings on that very thing, cut the funding for them, and even had the Feds make public service announcements about them failing.


Listen , I think it should be clear that Bush does not pick good leaders for most things. His cabinet is made up of primarily Iran Contra holdovers from his fathers administration (who wanted to "Get" back at iraq) and he just seems a little slow on the uptake when it comes to responding. This combined with the fact that he does not see things "long term" or the ramifications of his actions (especially how they related to geo political outcomes) makes for a very troubling cocktail. [/b][/color]

[Guest BlackJesus]

[quote]bush's speechs and the bull horn were EXACTLY what this country needed...[/quote]

[i][b]Perfect example of the anecdotal

[img]http://www.highvolumemedia.com/thebullhorn/images/People/US%20Politicians/BushWithBullhorn.jpg[/img]

Listen was this a nice moment (of course), but it still does not speak to the fact that he was warned about Bin Laden determined to attack... Like I am saying Bush is masterful at Public relations.... he knows how to choke one up and get someone teary eyed. He is very effective at making you feel pride and making you feel like he cares about you.... but his actions behind the scenes usually speak of failure and ineptitude. For instance I would much rather have a President who is figuring out what needs to be done... that one who is walking the Superdome and hugging babies. Sure hugging babies is nice, and it makes for great TV, but it doesn't hide the fact that the decisions made prior were piss poor all around and on Bushs part. Bush landed on an Air Craft Carrier in a Great PR display that the Nation just ate up ........ but that doesn't hide the fact that he wrongly believed at the time that the insurgency was in its last gasp and that Mission was accomplished. [/b][/i]

[Guest oldschooler]

[quote name='BlackJesus' date='Sep 7 2005, 09:12 AM'][color="blue"][i][b]I think if you are honest with yourself and look back at 9/11 it is clear that the nation turned to Rudi Guillianni.  As Bush was apporached with word of the attack, he froze.  Then that entire Day he was flying around in Air force one to Nebraska etc... Meanwhile on the ground we had a amazingly competent (Republican) Leader in Guillianni.  He coordinated the aftermath... and it wasn't until late that night (which I remember vividly as I was waiting in a 4 hour gas line) that Bush came on the radio and gave his speech.  I am trying my hardest to really discuss this and not use "extremist" language... but Bush always seems to be about 24 Hours behind the ball.... and in Disater that means a lot.    [/b][/i][/color]
[right][post="143670"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote]


[img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/24.gif[/img]

Let me see...One Mayor does his job...an awesome job I might add.
And you want to give him ALL THE CREDIT and NONE to Bush.

The other Mayor doesn`t do his job.
And you want to give him a pass and throw ALL OF THE BLAME on Bush ?

:roll:

[Guest oldschooler]

[quote name='BlackJesus' date='Sep 7 2005, 09:27 AM']  Bush landed on an Air Craft Carrier in a Great PR display that the Nation just ate up ........ but that doesn't hide the fact that he wrongly believed at the time that the insurgency was in its last gasp and that Mission was accomplished. 
[right][post="143678"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote]



When Bush said "Mission Accomplished" he was talking
about ousting the Saddam Regime...which was clearly accomplished...

[Guest bengalrick]

[quote name='BlackJesus' date='Sep 7 2005, 10:21 AM'][color="green"][b]Rick.... The point is not that he didn't watch the Weatehr Channel and know the storm was coming... Hell I knew that.  The point was that he[/quote]

that wasn't my point either... he declared the area a disaster area before the storm ever touched down... he also TALKED the governor and mayor into doing the manditary evacuation, which in turn, saved many lives, but would have saved almost everyone (that wanted to be saved) if done when Bush first urged the governor... she waited another 24 hours... at least that is what the mayor of NO is saying...

[quote]- Choose a Unqualified friend who was in charge of Race Horses to head up FEMA[/quote]

i agree w/ this one... the FEMA leader is obviously unqualified...

[quote]- Choose an unqualified lawyer friend to head up the Dept of Homeland Security who has no experience[/quote]

uhhh.... the first guy he picked (who was later ridiculed and in trouble for illegal immigrant being their nanny) would have done a hell of a job imo... this guy that he eventually picked was liked by both sides, adn that should have been my first hint that he also sucked

[quote]- Did not even leave his vacation till 2 days after the storm[/quote]

aaaaahhhhhhhhhhhh!!!! the president of the United States is NEVER on vacation... he was golfing... big fucking deal... what was he supposed to do... take AF1 down there and start evacuating people himself??? he did everything he could before the storm... just a question... when did the levees break compared to the day he left "vacation"?? (honest question... i really don't know)

[quote]- Upon having the Feds take over in New Orleans was terribly slow in getting relif and supplies to those in need (Chertoff mentioned on Thurs that he wasn't even aware that people had been locked in the Convention center since Monday)[/quote]

chertoff is useless... i heard that FEMA and the red cross were ready before the storm even hit, but were told by the mayor not to come in, b/c they wanted everyone out...

[quote]- Bush said that noone suspected that the Levees would fail dispite the fact that he recieved briefings on that very thing, cut the funding for them, and even had the Feds make public service announcements about them failing.
Listen , I think it should be clear that Bush does not pick good leaders for most things.  His cabinet is made up of primarily Iran Contra holdovers from his fathers administration (who wanted to "Get" back at iraq) and he just seems a little slow on the uptake when it comes to responding.  This combined with the fact that he does not see things "long term" or the ramifications of his actions (especially how they related to geo political outcomes) makes for a very troubling cocktail.  [/b][/color]
[right][post="143676"][/post][/right][/quote]

please find this quote... haven't heard that yet... hell, i knew the levees would break... if you find me a direct quote (from bush not numbnuts chertoff) then you may something... but i have listened and read many stories and haven't heard bush say anything close to that...

[Guest BlackJesus]

[quote]The other Mayor doesn`t do his job.
And you want to give him a pass and throw ALL OF THE BLAME on Bush ?[/quote]


[b]Old seriously can you read? I did not say that Bush gets all of the blame, I want to oust all of them (mayor, Gov, FEMA head, DHS head, Bush etc)
They all fucked up.

Pointing out that Bush screwed up is not excusing the fact that the NO Mayor also made mistakes. The Gov also made mistakes. However as Americans we all are not in charge of kicking about crappy mayors or Govs ... but the President is allof ours and if he messes up we have the right to all hold him accountable. [/b]

[Guest bengalrick]

[quote name='BlackJesus' date='Sep 7 2005, 10:27 AM'][i][b]Perfect example of the anecdotal

[img]http://www.highvolumemedia.com/thebullhorn/images/People/US%20Politicians/BushWithBullhorn.jpg[/img]

Listen was this a nice moment (of course), but it still does not speak to the fact that he was warned about Bin Laden determined to attack... Like I am saying Bush is masterful at Public relations.... he knows how to choke one up and get someone teary eyed.  He is very effective at making you feel pride and making you feel like he cares about you.... but his actions behind the scenes usually speak of failure and ineptitude.  For instance I would much rather have a President who is figuring out what needs to be done... that one who is walking the Superdome and hugging babies.  Sure hugging babies is nice, and it makes for great TV, but it doesn't hide the fact that the decisions made prior were piss poor all around and on Bushs part.  Bush landed on an Air Craft Carrier in a Great PR display that the Nation just ate up ........ but that doesn't hide the fact that he wrongly believed at the time that the insurgency was in its last gasp and that Mission was accomplished.  [/b][/i]
[right][post="143678"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote]

you always point to "behind the scenes"... i see better than i hear [img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/3.gif[/img]

this particular speech was on the cuff and he was told by his secret service not to get up there b/c they couldn't help w/ security... if you didn't get chills and wsa ready to take care of business after that speech, you may want to check your pulse....

[Guest BlackJesus]

[quote]you always point to "behind the scenes"... i see better than i hear 

this particular speech was on the cuff and he was told by his secret service not to get up there b/c they couldn't help w/ security... if you didn't get chills and wsa ready to take care of business after that speech, you may want to check your pulse....[/quote]


[b]Rick you are making my exact point for me.....

I am sure that in many Political movements the ability to rouse people and get them inspired is important. Hitler was masterful at this, as was Stalin, and Mussolini. Castro is currently great at this, as was Saddam and his parades. But getting a lump means absolutley nothing. it doesn't make reality - unreality, it doesn't make the fact that we still have not caught the asshole (Osama) who made the rubble he was standing on, because we have been fighting elsewhere against people who did not make that rubble. [/b]

[Guest bengalrick]

[quote name='BlackJesus' date='Sep 7 2005, 10:37 AM'][b]Rick you are making my exact point for me.....

I am sure that in many Political movements the ability to rouse people and get them inspired is important.  Hitler was masterful at this, as was Stalin, and Mussolini.  Castro is currently great at this, as was Saddam and his parades.  But getting a lump means absolutley nothing.  it doesn't make reality - unreality, it doesn't make the fact that we still have not caught the asshole (Osama) who made the rubble he was standing on, because we have been fighting elsewhere against people who did not make that rubble.  [/b]
[right][post="143687"][/post][/right][/quote]

its like talking to a wall

i still love ya bj, but my God... don't bring up stalin and hitler when talking about good speecehs... you lose my attention that way every fucking time... you know as well as i do, that rousing people to kill jews and homosexuals, is different than rousing your population against an enemy that has already been at war w/ us for 3 years!!!

[Guest BlackJesus]

[quote]please find this quote... haven't heard that yet... hell, i knew the levees would break... if you find me a direct quote (from bush not numbnuts chertoff) then you may something... but i have listened and read many stories and haven't heard bush say anything close to that...[/quote]


[b]In an interview on ABC’s “Good Morning America” on September 1, President Bush said:[/b]

[b]Bush:[/b] [i]"I don’t think anyone anticipated breach of the levees …Now we’re having to deal with it, and will."[/i]

[Guest BlackJesus]

[quote]don't bring up stalin and hitler when talking about good speecehs...[/quote]

[b]Almost all Historians agree that Hitler was a magnificent speaker as Was Stalin... the point being that you can convince people to support unimaginable things by rallying their emotions. Saddam himself was great at this
[img]http://www.bu.edu/alumni/bostonia/graphics/2003/spring/dickey/dickey02.jpg[/img]
This firing would be the equivalent of their "Bull horn". [/b]


[quote]you lose my attention that way every fucking time... you know as well as i do, that rousing people to kill jews and homosexuals, is different than rousing your population against an enemy that has already been at war w/ us for 3 years!!![/quote]

[b]This makes perfect sense to you and me.... but Hitler would have said that the Germans had been at War with the Dirty Jews for centuries.... As would Stalin have said that they were fighting the enemies of "Capitalism" that had been killing them for decades. Don't even focus on the killing, just the fact to make one feel empowered and nationalistic is a great quality to have in a leader who wished to get people to follow his actions.... We bombed Iraq and most of the nation applauded at "Shock and Awe" in the same way that germans applauded the "powerful Blitzkrieg".[/b]

[Jamie_B]

The only point Ill refute is this, when one says Bin Laden determined to attack (and Ill be specific because he did say determined to attack on American soil). The problem becomes, when, where, how, in what manner. Intelligence can only aid to answer these questions, but irregardless of whether you believe you were lied to or not, there were still massive problems within and between the Intelligence community, problems that had been problems for some time, and as deeply troubling as it is, sometimes it takes disasters such as this to awaken people to them.

[Guest bengalrick]

[quote name='BlackJesus' date='Sep 7 2005, 10:48 AM'][b]This makes perfect sense to you and me.... but Hitler would have said that the Germans had been at War with the Dirty Jews for centuries.... As would Stalin have said that they were fighting the enemies of "Capitalism" that had been killing them for decades.  Don't even focus on the killing, just the fact to make one feel empowered and nationalistic is a great quality to have in a leader who wished to get people to follow his actions.... We bombed Iraq and most of the nation applauded at "Shock and Awe" in the same way that germans applauded the "powerful Blitzkrieg".[/b]
[right][post="143698"][/post][/right][/quote]

all right, i will take out the killings and try to look at this through your googles bj...

i see somewhat of what your saying, but it hitlers case, he had not proof... only good speeches...

but osama declared war on the US a long time before, and after hitting us a few times in the 90's, he thought we were a "paper tiger" and would fold if we were attacked, 9/11 style... thank God (or Marvin for you ) he was wrong... so far at least...

[Guest oldschooler]

[quote name='BlackJesus' date='Sep 7 2005, 09:32 AM'][b]Old seriously can you read?  I did not say that Bush gets all of the blame, I want to oust all of them (mayor, Gov, FEMA head, DHS head, Bush etc)
They all fucked up.

Pointing out that Bush screwed up is not excusing the fact that the NO Mayor also made mistakes.  The Gov also made mistakes.  However as Americans we all are not in charge of kicking about crappy mayors or Govs ... but the President is allof ours and if he messes up we have the right to all hold him accountable. [/b]
[right][post="143683"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote]



Of course I can read.
I read the same bullshit from you everyday.
Bush never does anything right in your eyes...

Anyway He did his job by declaring it a disaster area 2 days
before the Hurricane hit, he did his job by telling the
Mayor and Governor that they should impose a mandatory
evacuation...he didn`t do his job when he let to much time
pass before he stepped in and took over for THEIR incompetence
though...and I have admitted that already.

But when Bush DID DO his job...things got better.
That`s not a sign of incompetence...that would be if he
was doing his job and shit got WORSE...

[Guest bengalrick]

[quote name='Jamie_B' date='Sep 7 2005, 10:49 AM']The only point Ill refute is this, when one says Bin Laden determined to attack (and Ill be specific because he did say determined to attack on American soil). The problem becomes, when, where, how, in what manner. Intelligence can only aid to answer these questions, but irregardless of whether you believe you were lied to or not, there were still massive problems within and between the Intelligence community, problems that had been problems for some time, and as deeply troubling as it is, sometimes it takes disasters such as this to awaken people to them.
[right][post="143699"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote]

great post jaime...

our intel was absolutely horrible... for instance, did you know that in the the time before the iraq invasion, we had absolutely ZERO "on the ground" spies in iraq?? that is freaking retarted... we may never know if he had wmd's in stockpiles, b/c saddam could have gotten them out of his country, and we have no conclusive evidence (b/c we had no guys ont he ground) to prove it... ridiculous....

[Guest bengalrick]

[quote name='oldschooler' date='Sep 7 2005, 10:55 AM']Of course I can read.
I read the same bullshit from you everyday.
Bush never does anything right in your eyes...

Anyway He did his job by declaring it a disaster area 2 days
before the Hurricane hit, he did his job by telling the
Mayor and Governor that they should impose a mandatory
evacuation...he didn`t do his job when he let to much time
pass before he stepped in and took over for THEIR incompetence
though...and I have admitted that already.

But when Bush DID DO his job...things got better.
That`s not a sign of incompetence...that would be if he
was doing his job and shit got WORSE...
[right][post="143704"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote]

i agree old... bush deserves criticism... i want to make sure everyone understands that... Bush didn't act fast enough to declare marsall law and take over... if the evacuation that happened on day 5 happened on day 2, it would have been historic... instead, it was late... he would have either gotten permission from the governor or declared marshall law earlier, but in hind sight, it should have happened...

but this is far from saying that Bush is incompetant b/c when he took over, shit hit the fan, and things got done....

[Guest BlackJesus]

[quote]but osama declared war on the US a long time before, and after hitting us a few times in the 90's, he thought we were a "paper tiger" and would fold if we were attacked, 9/11 style... thank God (or Marvin for you  ) he was wrong... so far at least...[/quote]

[b]Exactly Osama Declared War on us.... Not Saddam

Yes we did go to Afghanistan where we thought Osama was and the entire world supported that and was with us....

then we went and invaded Iraq and most of the world balked and turned against us... and now we are making future Osamas everyday....


Now it is only good speeches and rhetoric that can convince a Public and a Democratic party with no balls to support such a war. Bushs people do outstanding jobs blurring reality and making one see support for their desires as support for the American nation when they are not linked at all and if anyting could be the opposite. [/b]

[Guest bengalrick]

[quote name='BlackJesus' date='Sep 7 2005, 11:02 AM'][b]Exactly Osama Declared War on us.... Not Saddam

Yes we did go to Afghanistan where we thought Osama was and the entire world supported that and was with us....

then we went and invaded Iraq and most of the world balked and turned against us... and now we are making future Osamas everyday....
Now it is only good speeches and rhetoric that can convince a Public and a Democratic party with no balls to support such a war.  Bushs people do outstanding jobs blurring reality and making one see support for their desires as support for the American nation when they are not linked at all and if anyting could be the opposite. [/b]
[right][post="143710"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote]

you jumped ships on me... in my eyes, they are one in the same wars... the war on terror... you know my stance and if you want the headache of me telling you AGAIN why i support the war in iraq, then i will...

but until then, what is the best way to fight terror bj?? by the police defending our homeland or our military fighing on the offensive?

you always say "we stirred up the bee hive" right, but what is the best way to kill the bees if they are going to kill you, kill every indivual bee that comes near you or go to the nest and light it on fire??

[Guest BlackJesus]

[quote]you always say "we stirred up the bee hive" right, but what is the best way to kill the bees if they are going to kill you, kill every indivual bee that comes near you or go to the nest and light it on fire??[/quote]

[color="purple"][i][b]weighted analogy... if it was lighting the hive on fire then hell yeah I would be for it.... but the actual analogy here is a host of trees with hives... (the largest one actually being Saudi Arabia (our Allie who Bush coddles) .... picture 10 trees with Bee Hives and what we did was go to one of the smaller ones (Iraq) and wacked the fuck out of it, causing the bees to spread and even travel to the other hives and rally those bees.... all of the bees being rallied then started spreading to trees we never even thought had hives.... and our allies forests now are becoming infested with bees, making them pissed at us as well..... Then to top it off, before we at least had support of the Neighborhood Condo Association (World) to hunt down the bee hive (Taliban) that actually stung us, but since we whacked the wrong one (Iraq) the neighborhood all now hates us and won't allow us to whack the other hives (Iran & Saudi Arabia) who are much bigger threats than Iraq ever was. [/b][/i][/color]