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Something We Will Have to Worry About Soon


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I don't think Burrow will demand top of the market money. My guess is he'll wait until 2024 for his extension and take a lower average deal with a higher guaranteed % of the payout. Something like 5 years/200 mil with 150 guaranteed. The Bengals have historically not guaranteed money very far down the line (partly because of a league rule requiring it be placed in escrow) but they'll have to change their SOP. 

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25 minutes ago, sparky151 said:

I don't think Burrow will demand top of the market money. My guess is he'll wait until 2024 for his extension and take a lower average deal with a higher guaranteed % of the payout. Something like 5 years/200 mil with 150 guaranteed. The Bengals have historically not guaranteed money very far down the line (partly because of a league rule requiring it be placed in escrow) but they'll have to change their SOP. 

 

My question is, do they have the capital to put that kind of money in escrow?  Many of these other owners were vastly wealthy before owning a team...I don't know (as none of us truly do) if the Brown family has the assets to put that kind of money away.

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43 minutes ago, sparky151 said:

I don't think Burrow will demand top of the market money. My guess is he'll wait until 2024 for his extension and take a lower average deal with a higher guaranteed % of the payout. Something like 5 years/200 mil with 150 guaranteed. The Bengals have historically not guaranteed money very far down the line (partly because of a league rule requiring it be placed in escrow) but they'll have to change their SOP. 

I'm sure the front office will try to get Burrow's extension done, but you can bet that guys like Higgins and Wilson want the Burrow done first before theirs. Because the Bengals will have to reset their contract model for Burrow by giving him way more guaranteed money than which they have with any previous contract. I don't think Burrow's agent will  allow the Bengals do contracts the way they usually do in terms of guaranteed money, and I hope he doesn't to be honest. There needs to be a new precedent set.

 

We all know that the salary cap is mostly just a joke, but I am not comfortable at all with the Bengals being ranked no 1 in the league for salary cap health. Certainly don't want them to be ranked last, but not first either. This is one of those rankings where maybe the best place to be is middle of the pack. For the sake of your young stars contract extension health down the road.

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Joe recently said something along the lines of he wanted to play with Jamar and Tee for a very long time. 

 

I think he will take a contract that allows him to do that.

 

I also think Jamar will get paid as well and actually be easier to sign than Tee solely because of who Tee's agent is.

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36 minutes ago, Jamie_B said:

Joe recently said something along the lines of he wanted to play with Jamar and Tee for a very long time. 

 

I think he will take a contract that allows him to do that.

 

I also think Jamar will get paid as well and actually be easier to sign than Tee solely because of who Tee's agent is.

Of course Burrow wants to continue to play with Chase and Higgins. He isn't crazy, after all. But all 3 of those guys will have agents who will surely be demanding guaranteed money on the level of what similar players are getting around the league. It is not unreasonable to expect that from the Bengals as well, as long as they aren't asking for more than that.

 

I mean, Jessie Bates has stated many times that he wants to remain with the Bengals long term. That's why he moved his mom to Cincinnati. But if the issue is not that he wants to be the highest paid safety in the league but that he wants a similar amount of guaranteed money to what other top safeties are getting, then it is reasonable that he might decide to play for another team. Bates is only 25 years old and that is valuable when you are talking 2nd contracts. 

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10 minutes ago, dex said:

Of course Burrow wants to continue to play with Chase and Higgins. He isn't crazy, after all. But all 3 of those guys will have agents who will surely be demanding guaranteed money on the level of what similar players are getting around the league. It is not unreasonable to expect that from the Bengals as well, as long as they aren't asking for more than that.

 

I mean, Jessie Bates has stated many times that he wants to remain with the Bengals long term. That's why he moved his mom to Cincinnati. But if the issue is not that he wants to be the highest paid safety in the league but that he wants a similar amount of guaranteed money to what other top safeties are getting, then it is reasonable that he might decide to play for another team. Bates is only 25 years old and that is valuable when you are talking 2nd contracts. 

 

 

Joe is going to have more leverage than Jessie will.

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33 minutes ago, Jamie_B said:

 

 

Joe is going to have more leverage than Jessie will.

Sure he does. But it doesn't have to be an either/or situation. Okay to have both receive extensions that fit their league-wide value in the marketplace.

 

I saw where Burrow stood up for Bates' today at his press conference n terms of a contract extension. Says they are going to be going to Las Vegas together soon. Both Burrow and Bates have proven to be great team leaders.

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4 minutes ago, dex said:

Sure he does. But it doesn't have to be an either/or situation. Okay to have both receive extensions that fit their league-wide value in the marketplace.

 

I saw where Burrow stood up for Bates' today at his press conference n terms of a contract extension. Says they are going to be going to Las Vegas together soon. Both Burrow and Bates have proven to be great team leaders.

 

 

Would be great of Joe used his leverage to get Jessie in fold.

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8 hours ago, dex said:

Sure he does. But it doesn't have to be an either/or situation. Okay to have both receive extensions that fit their league-wide value in the marketplace.

 

I saw where Burrow stood up for Bates' today at his press conference n terms of a contract extension. Says they are going to be going to Las Vegas together soon. Both Burrow and Bates have proven to be great team leaders.

 

 

2027 is basically the first time Mahomes contract gets ballooned, his cap hit is 29-40-ish mil a year until then, then its 60 mil. and he either has 3-4 rings and they keep it or not, and all dead cap space seems to end in 2026. Its basically a gigantic year to year deal at that point.  Thats the story of the nfl. drafting talent cheap enough to win with vs having ti fill every hole with a huge free agent. most teams would have went after 1-2 huge prices free agent linemen each of the last two years, sunk tons of cash, bengals risked waiting a year, drafted the one, grabbed one in FA. then this year got 3 solids for the cost of 1 big name. Now another difference in the three pictured folks in that video, is they are all different scenarios.. Mahomes needs specific weapons to be great, Wilson needs a great defense to give him extra attempts to chuck the ball wildly, rodgers is a nutbag not sure what he needs specifically. but burrow doesnt really really fit any of those, seems like give him 1-2 great guys and a team full of "good enough" and the sky is the limit.

 

Mahomes deal details.

 

Contract Notes:

  • $63M guaranteed at signing (signing bonus + 2020 salary + 2021 salary + 2021 roster bonus + 2022 salary + 2022 roster bonus)
  • 2023 salary & roster bonus + workout bonus fully guarantee on 3/19/2021 ($100M of total dead cap)
  • 2024 salary & roster bonus + workout bonus fully guarantee on 3/18/2022 ($113.3M of total dead cap)
  • 2025 roster bonus + workout bonus fully guarantees on the 3rd league day of 2023 ($121.3M of total dead cap)
  • 2025 salary + workout bonus fully guarantees on the 3rd league day of 2024 ($81.9M of total dead cap)
  • 2026 roster bonus fully guarantees on the 3rd league day of 2025 ($80.85M of total dead cap)
  • 2026 salary + workout bonus , 2027 roster bonus fully guarantee on the 3rd league day of 2026 ($91.35M of total dead cap)
  • 2027 salary + workout bonus + 2028 salary + 2028 roster bonus fully guarantee on the 3rd league of 2027 ($104M of total dead cap)
  • 2029 salary + workout bonus & 2029 roster bonus fully guarantee on the 3rd league day of 2028 ($89.4M of total dead cap)
  • 2030 salary  & 2030 roster bonus fully guarantee on the 3rd league day of 2029 ($94.85M of total dead cap)
  • 2031 roster bonus fully guarantee on the 3rd league day of 2030 ($63.8M of total dead cap)
  • 2031 base salary fully guarantees on the 3rd league day of 2031 ($51.9M of total dead cap)
  • 2022-2031: $2.5 million incentives ($1.25 million winning AFC Champ Game $1.25 million NFL MVP)

 

 

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On 6/14/2022 at 12:29 PM, dex said:

I'm sure the front office will try to get Burrow's extension done, but you can bet that guys like Higgins and Wilson want the Burrow done first before theirs. Because the Bengals will have to reset their contract model for Burrow by giving him way more guaranteed money than which they have with any previous contract. I don't think Burrow's agent will  allow the Bengals do contracts the way they usually do in terms of guaranteed money, and I hope he doesn't to be honest. There needs to be a new precedent set.

 

We all know that the salary cap is mostly just a joke, but I am not comfortable at all with the Bengals being ranked no 1 in the league for salary cap health. Certainly don't want them to be ranked last, but not first either. This is one of those rankings where maybe the best place to be is middle of the pack. For the sake of your young stars contract extension health down the road.

 

I don't think Burrow will let his agent call the shots. JB9 seems like a team-first guy. So instead of asking for an extension asap, I think he'll wait until after year 4 and settle for less than top dollar. Instead of 60 mil per year (about 20% of the total cap) he'll ask for 40 mil and leave room for others like Chase and Higgins. 

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On 6/14/2022 at 12:06 PM, WRAPradio said:

 

My question is, do they have the capital to put that kind of money in escrow?  Many of these other owners were vastly wealthy before owning a team...I don't know (as none of us truly do) if the Brown family has the assets to put that kind of money away.

Forbes estimated MB’s net worth in 2015 at $925 million. Didn’t give details as to just from where the total wealth was derived (although safe to assume the largest portion would be due to the Bengals). Just read an article where, if you take that $925mm and transfer it to 2022 dollars, it shakes out to $1.09B. Not Stan Kroenke, but not bad either. 

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1 hour ago, Le Tigre said:

Forbes estimated MB’s net worth in 2015 at $925 million. Didn’t give details as to just from where the total wealth was derived (although safe to assume the largest portion would be due to the Bengals). Just read an article where, if you take that $925mm and transfer it to 2022 dollars, it shakes out to $1.09B. Not Stan Kroenke, but not bad either. 

 

Good find.  Would it be safe to assume most of that is the actual value of the team and not TV money, merchandise sales, ticket sales, etc.?  If that's the case that money isn't even close to being liquid.  Either way, the Brown family isn't worried about where tonight's dinner is coming from. 

 

A quick Google search says the Bengals were worth $2.275B in 2021. I can't even imagine having something worth that much money, sheesh.

 

Another interesting article about their value after the SB run:  https://www.wcpo.com/sports/football/bengals/how-super-bowl-run-will-impact-cincinnati-bengals-finances

 Quote from the article:  

 

“The Super Bowl certainly matters,” said Miami University Assistant Processor Adam Beissel, who teaches and studies the business of sports. “It not only galvanized the fan base around the Tri-State area, but also it seemed to signal that the Bengals are here to stay.”

Beissel expects the Bengals to reach $3 billion in franchise value when Forbes reveals its annual rankings of the NFL’s most valuable teams. The Bengals ranked 31st on last year’s list, with a $2.75 billion valuation."

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1 hour ago, sparky151 said:

 

I don't think Burrow will let his agent call the shots. JB9 seems like a team-first guy. So instead of asking for an extension asap, I think he'll wait until after year 4 and settle for less than top dollar. Instead of 60 mil per year (about 20% of the total cap) he'll ask for 40 mil and leave room for others like Chase and Higgins. 

Every indication is that the Bengals will make every effort to sign Burrow after next offseason. They cannot afford to wait. The franchise QB market is absolutely exploding, and it is important to get Burrow signed long term as soon as possible. It will become the largest contract in Bengals history by a longshot, with enough guaranteed money included to make Katie Blackburn absolutely dizzy. If he stays healthy he will earn every penny of that guaranteed money. That is the case with most Bengals players. They will get paid almost every penny of their contract even if it isn't absolutely 100 percent guaranteed. The problem is that agents are getting their clients huge amounts of absolutely guaranteed money and they aren't looking to make an exception for the one team that does it a different way.

 

I don't think Burrow should or will take a below-market value contract extension from Cincinnati. I  think he would unintentionally doing the organization a favor by setting a new precedent on how they structure contracts, just like TJ Watt did for Pittsburgh. A very long-term high-dollar contract extension with mega guaranteed money for Burrow would actually increase the chances of re-signing both Higgins and Chase long-term, not lessen them.. I doubt Higgins agent will even bother to talk to Cincinnati until after Burrow signs and upends the way the Bengals do contracts. Wait for Burrow to upend the very rigid contract structure and then Higgins can go for the own bag if he has a great year. And then Chase the year after.

 

For those who say the Bengals can't keep all of their truly elite players, I would say, oh yes they can. The Rams are paying close to franchise QB money to not only Matthew Stafford but also Aaron Donald, Cooper Kupp, Bobby Wagner, etc. and still act like they might be able to re-sign Beckham too. I am shocked that the Bengals were able to sign a top OT like Collins to such a paltry contract, which just goes to show you how badly he wanted to play for Cincinnati. But that was an anomaly, I expect both the agents for Higgins and Chase to demand contracts that fits their actual value around the league. Even if they both love their coaches and fellow players, which they really seem like they do.

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3 hours ago, WRAPradio said:

Would it be safe to assume most of that is the actual value of the team and not TV money, merchandise sales, ticket sales, etc.? 

Can’t say. There were no specifics as to what made his net worth. He (and family) no doubt get “royalties” from the items you mentioned, but like any business, much of what is raked in, goes right back into the business.

 

MB isn’t a credit card magnate, shipping mogul, or CEO of a major corporation. As smart as he is, I would venture that a good portion of his net wealth has come from investments and the like. Just a guess. 

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Mike Brown might be the "poorest" owner (relatively speaking), but I would prefer that (because it gives him old school loyalty to the city of Cincinnati through his father) rather than if he was some Tech mogul asshole looking to squeeze all the profit from the franchise he could (and likely relocate the team).

 

For instance, the Bengals not having a corporate stadium sponsor I think should be a point of team pride, in a league where most of the iconic stadium names have been ruined with some bullshit sponsorship ... "Invesco Field at Mile Hile" etc. 🤮

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2 hours ago, T-Dub said:

Hold up..  If the team is worth over 2 billion,  yet the owner is only worth 1..  How many partners does he have?

Personal net worth and team net worth are two different ledgers.
 

I don’t think MB is the sole “investor”—seem to recall there are some other non-family members with financial interest in the franchise. 

 

Like Al Davis was always called “Managing Partner” and not “owner”? 

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33 minutes ago, Le Tigre said:

Personal net worth and team net worth are two different ledgers.
 

I don’t think MB is the sole “investor”—seem to recall there are some other non-family members with financial interest in the franchise. 

 

Like Al Davis was always called “Managing Partner” and not “owner”? 

Didn't MB spend most of the 90's and most of the franchises money buying out the non-family partners? 

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The Bengals are a corporation. There are something like 586 shares. One share is held by Dutch Knowlton's lawyer. He wasn't squeezed into selling to the Brown family in the 90s. All the other shares are held by the Brown family one way or another. I'd imagine most are in a family trust with Mike Brown as trustee. Trusts survive owners and don't pay estate taxes when one of the beneficiaries dies. 

 

Regarding contracts for Burrow and others. Higgins, Williams, Wilson and others will want new deals next offseason. The team will be able to exercise its 5th year contract option on Burrow then and they will do so. So, no, they won't be in a hurry to extend Burrow. My guess is they will get the others done first and wait for the cap to increase when new media deals kick in. 

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8 hours ago, sparky151 said:

 

 

Regarding contracts for Burrow and others. Higgins, Williams, Wilson and others will want new deals next offseason. The team will be able to exercise its 5th year contract option on Burrow then and they will do so. So, no, they won't be in a hurry to extend Burrow. My guess is they will get the others done first and wait for the cap to increase when new media deals kick in. 

 

But will there be enough to sign everybody? Probably (most definately) not. I think what you have to do is what the Patriots did and convince players to take less money for a chance at a ring. That's a tough sell.

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2 hours ago, gupps said:

 

But will there be enough to sign everybody? Probably (most definately) not. I think what you have to do is what the Patriots did and convince players to take less money for a chance at a ring. That's a tough sell.

It will help that the cap will be rising. And frankly, it is better to be in a position of too many good players to pay all at top rates then the opposite (where were were 3 years ago). 

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