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BENGALS @ CHIEFS - AFC Championship Game thread


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2 hours ago, HavePityPlease said:

 

I will say for myself at least, the kind of gambling-based game tilting I expect to see won't be straight-up game outcome fixing (I agree they can't do that without total buy-in from all parties), they'll just continue their normal tilting for that, but rather trying to influence the small/granular one-off sort of bets that are already being pumped as the game is going on - who is gonna score/get a sack/get the next tackle blah blah blah, how will the percentage change, so on and so forth.  As soon as they've run enough algos to be confident on maximum bet flow/throughput I won't be surprised if they start trying to tilt towards it.

I was going to say something similar about the betting, boogaloo Conspiracy theory, anyone in their right mind day and age that don't think that betting cannot be rigged with our technology today has never been around IT personnel.  Simple example, the Lottery is rigged.  Nobody believes it, ok, keep thinking that. The over $1B Powerball proved it but, what do people do, they just move on and keep on playing it like the suckers we are.  Same can be said here, the majority will probably watch the Super Bowl, probably not me, but if I had to BET (no pun intended) 95 percent or more will from this board.

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4 hours ago, BlackJesus said:

The NFL can't fully stage a game, as the players would never go along with it. So in that case a complete "rigging" is difficult. But what they definitely can do, especially in a league where most games are decided by one possession, is have the referees put their fingers on the scales to make the desired outcome more likely. 

 

If the league wants Team A to win, and consistently give them beneficial calls through the course of a game, the accumulation of assistance is often enough to make the difference. 

 

And in a league where a single point scored can cost casinos, sports books, and organized crime millions & billions of dollars, that's an issue as it pertains to the integrity of the contest.

 

Plus the presence of certain marketable teams can mean a big difference in viewers and thus advertising revenue for the league. So to pretend that they wouldn't have a desired preference is naive. 

 

FB_IMG_1675084009070.jpg

BINGO!  Nobody ever talks about Field Position when the calls are rigged but, this is one of the biggest parts of the game.

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Doesn't the Intentional Grounding Rule state that there must be a receiver in the area AND the ball has to travel at least to the line of scrimmage?  If so, it was the right call based on the latter was it not?  Seems like folks are only focusing on the receiver in the area part?

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13 minutes ago, esjbh2 said:

Doesn't the Intentional Grounding Rule state that there must be a receiver in the area AND the ball has to travel at least to the line of scrimmage?  If so, it was the right call based on the latter was it not?  Seems like folks are only focusing on the receiver in the area part?

 

I believe that's only the case of being outside the pocket.  Otherwise all these QBs throwing at the feet of a screen pass receiver are always committing the penalty.  It might actually be that if a receiver is behind the LOS that's fine.

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So what I understand some of you are suggesting is that referees consciously exert influence over games at the league's discretion?  So, for a couple hundred grand a year, and no insurance, these guys help the league make extra millions?  None of them ever squeal or talk about it even after they retire?  These same officials have battled the NFL for better pay in 2012 and 2015.  No chance.

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That is your opinion, and this is mine.  It can be a Bias thing too, they are human after all, right.  If your boss tells you to do something and if you don't do it and then are fired, you might tell someone about it but, i bet you don't tell anyone if you want to keep your job and it may be in favor for you and not your other coworkers. 

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19 minutes ago, UncleEarl said:

So what I understand some of you are suggesting is that referees consciously exert influence over games at the league's discretion?  So, for a couple hundred grand a year, and no insurance, these guys help the league make extra millions?  None of them ever squeal or talk about it even after they retire?  These same officials have battled the NFL for better pay in 2012 and 2015.  No chance.

 

 

You .,..me... same page

 

I am of the opinion that this is more a problem with not having full time refs

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There is also the possibility that the refs don't need to be told directly what to do, but that it is inferred, because they see that those who favor certain teams which benefit the league financially get rated the best and get more perks. 

 

It's like the mafia. Roger can communicate in code. He may never directly tell a ref to favor another team, but he might suggest that the NFL would prefer one team wins over another and let them connect the dots themselves of what is expected of them. 

 

And that's to say nothing of the fact that a casino or sports book could also put money in an off shore account and let a ref know that if they assist in an outcome there is a "reward" for them. 

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21 minutes ago, TigerJ@w said:

That is your opinion, and this is mine.  It can be a Bias thing too, they are human after all, right.  If your boss tells you to do something and if you don't do it and then are fired, you might tell someone about it but, i bet you don't tell anyone if you want to keep your job and it may be in favor for you and not your other coworkers. 

 

Bias I understand.  That can't really be helped.  That is not the NFL trying to influence games.

 

Do you realize how much money a whistleblower could make by ratting out the NFL?  If a retired ref wanted to write a book, call TMZ, contact the Justice department, etc. they would make a shitload of money.  Why don't they?  The logical answer is because the refs don't consciously influence games, especially under direction of the NFL.  That house of cards wouldn't last. 

 

One of the reasons crime syndicates come and go is because people see how much money is being made from their efforts, get pissed about how little they get, and either squeal or challenge the syndicate.  They can't challenge the NFL.  If there was deliberate influencing from officials that stuff would be in the news in no time. 

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11 minutes ago, UncleEarl said:

 

Bias I understand.  That can't really be helped.  That is not the NFL trying to influence games.

 

Do you realize how much money a whistleblower could make by ratting out the NFL?  If a retired ref wanted to write a book, call TMZ, contact the Justice department, etc. they would make a shitload of money.  Why don't they?  The logical answer is because the refs don't consciously influence games, especially under direction of the NFL.  That house of cards wouldn't last. 

 

One of the reasons crime syndicates come and go is because people see how much money is being made from their efforts, get pissed about how little they get, and either squeal or challenge the syndicate.  They can't challenge the NFL.  If there was deliberate influencing from officials that stuff would be in the news in no time. 

 

 

Yup

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1 hour ago, UncleEarl said:

So what I understand some of you are suggesting is that referees consciously exert influence over games at the league's discretion?  So, for a couple hundred grand a year, and no insurance, these guys help the league make extra millions?  None of them ever squeal or talk about it even after they retire?  These same officials have battled the NFL for better pay in 2012 and 2015.  No chance.

Back to dog-chasing-tail. 

 

No one is getting paid to throw games...there is no coordinated RICO-violation organizing to tilt contests. There is nothing to "out". 

 

There is--and has been for at least 10-15 years--a dynamic for the NFL to force onto the field in order to move games towards more favorable TV and marketing revenues.  It wouldn't matter if it were Kermit, Joe, or Baker Mayfield...what the public wants to see, the better the return. 

 

The dynamic, is ever-increasing thrusting of multitudinous rules upon the teams of the league, with absolutely no way any of them can cohesively adhere to. Second, and to the point of incompetent (not criminal) officials, is any means whatsoever to consistently enforce those rules. There will naturally be mistakes, but more importantly, there will be ingrained patterns of application--almost always applied to the team (read: Quarterback mostly) which is most recognizable. Michael Jordan would run over people and the poor unknown sot guarding him would 100% of the time get the foul called on him. Why is it that Kermit will always get calls, and Geno Smith will not? 

 

Regardless, and the dynamic has many more examples which I do not have time to go into, the NFL is not pristine-clean, and the game is compromised. 

   

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31 minutes ago, Le Tigre said:

Back to dog-chasing-tail. 

 

No one is getting paid to throw games...there is no coordinated RICO-violation organizing to tilt contests. There is nothing to "out". 

 

There is--and has been for at least 10-15 years--a dynamic for the NFL to force onto the field in order to move games towards more favorable TV and marketing revenues.  It wouldn't matter if it were Kermit, Joe, or Baker Mayfield...what the public wants to see, the better the return. 

 

The dynamic, is ever-increasing thrusting of multitudinous rules upon the teams of the league, with absolutely no way any of them can cohesively adhere to. Second, and to the point of incompetent (not criminal) officials, is any means whatsoever to consistently enforce those rules. There will naturally be mistakes, but more importantly, there will be ingrained patterns of application--almost always applied to the team (read: Quarterback mostly) which is most recognizable. Michael Jordan would run over people and the poor unknown sot guarding him would 100% of the time get the foul called on him. Why is it that Kermit will always get calls, and Geno Smith will not? 

 

Regardless, and the dynamic has many more examples which I do not have time to go into, the NFL is not pristine-clean, and the game is compromised. 

   

So much this.  People keep hearing "game fixing", but that's not even what's being said.  If somebody thinks yesterday's game was fair in terms of penalties called and not called...for WHATEVER reason...then we weren't watching the same game.  No conspiracy, maybe just human nature, and I know it comes off as sour grapes, but it is what it is IMHO.  I also get that we still shouldn't use that as an excuse, but I'm not over it just yet. 

 

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1 hour ago, T-Dub said:

So somehow, miraculously, the NFL is the only pro sports franchise in history that has never, ever had a corrupt official.

 

yuh-smiling.gif

 

 

There is a difference between a single corrupt official, which has happened in many sports, and a corrupt system. 

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3 minutes ago, UncleEarl said:

 

There is a difference between a single corrupt official, which has happened in many sports, and a corrupt system. 

 

Can you give me an example of a single NFL official that has been caught doing this?  Either the NFL refs are all masters of deception, the NFL itself doesn't care, or it's by design (for whatever reason you prefer).

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