membengal Posted April 21, 2023 Report Share Posted April 21, 2023 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
esjbh2 Posted April 21, 2023 Report Share Posted April 21, 2023 6 hours ago, PatternMaster said: I saw Jalen Carter at 19 and realized this was a huge waste of time this wannabe PFF type of list is. Yeah, he shows up at 19 on the first tab where positional value isn't considered...but he's #3 on the Concensus tab which is more indicative of predicted draft pick number. Lots of data from many sources in that spreadsheet but in several different tabs. Back to Carter...the car crash incident throws a huge draft position question mark into play IMHO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparky151 Posted April 21, 2023 Report Share Posted April 21, 2023 8 hours ago, WRAPradio said: If Carter fell to the mid to late teens we'd really have to consider trading up, right? I know trading up in the 1st is rarely considered good value, but Jalen Carter would be the perfect pick for our aging/expiriring D-Line. Huh? Bengals have top 5 DEs and top 5 DTs from last year coming back. All are under 30. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WRAPradio Posted April 22, 2023 Report Share Posted April 22, 2023 19 hours ago, sparky151 said: Huh? Bengals have top 5 DEs and top 5 DTs from last year coming back. All are under 30. Reader: This is his last year and will be 30, will he back? Hopefully, but we may look to get younger Hill: He's got two more years, will be 30 at the end of his contract. He's an OK piece, but I'm not looking at him as an irreplaceable part of the future of this line Tupou: This is his last year...he's just a guy and will be 30 next year Z. Carter: Still on his rookie contract for another three years. Obviously part of the future as long as he gets better. As of now, he's a guy Hendrickson: Two more years, will be 30 at the end of his contract. He's the best edge player we have, we could extend him... Hubbard: Three more years, will be 30 at the end of his contract. He's great against the run, OK getting to the QB Cam Sample: Two more years on his rookie contract and up to this point in his career, he's been "just a guy", IMO Basham: One year deal, no idea what he brings, will be 30 next year We may have a lot of bodies, but the known future of this line are Zach Carter, Hubbard and Cam Sample. You'd pass up on Jalen Carter because we have DJ Reader, BJ Hill, Josh Tupou and Zack Carter? If you have concerns about Jalen Carter's work ethic or off the field problems, that's one thing, but if those things check out for you (us), we'd be silly to pass on him because of the bodies we currently have on the team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WRAPradio Posted April 22, 2023 Report Share Posted April 22, 2023 19 hours ago, sparky151 said: Huh? Bengals have top 5 DEs and top 5 DTs from last year coming back. All are under 30. 3-Tech is also a premium position that pays WELL if they're good. To have someone cost-controlled for five years at a premium position (if they're good) is a valuable contract in team building. A position like TE isn't premium, but if you've got a great one, you're paying what, $15M per year vs. $23M - $25M for a premier WR? That's part of the reason KC can keep spending. Kelce is their best skill player and he's going to cost less than Ja'marr and Tee. Here are the 3T salaries: Imagine having one of those guys on a rookie salary (assuming you think Carter can be that good...or close). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie_B Posted April 22, 2023 Author Report Share Posted April 22, 2023 3 minutes ago, WRAPradio said: 3-Tech is also a premium position that pays WELL if they're good. To have someone cost-controlled for five years at a premium position (if they're good) is a valuable contract in team building. A position like TE isn't premium, but if you've got a great one, you're paying what, $15M per year vs. $23M - $25M for a premier WR? That's part of the reason KC can keep spending. Kelce is their best skill player and he's going to cost less than Ja'marr and Tee. Here are the 3T salaries: Imagine having one of those guys on a rookie salary (assuming you think Carter can be that good...or close). You realize that makes an argument for trying to get a top-end TE? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WRAPradio Posted April 22, 2023 Report Share Posted April 22, 2023 41 minutes ago, Jamie_B said: You realize that makes an argument for trying to get a top-end TE? I thought about that too, but I think 3T is a more premium position. I’d take carter over any of the TEs in this draft. He won’t be there so I guess it’s a moot point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie_B Posted April 22, 2023 Author Report Share Posted April 22, 2023 1 minute ago, WRAPradio said: I thought about that too, but I think 3T is a more premium position. I’d take carter over any of the TEs in this draft. He won’t be there so I guess it’s a moot point. That's the thing, and why BPA is important. Get a TE? Save on having to pay on WR Get a DT? Cost-controlled contract on a premium position. Get a CB? Same thing Get a RT? Again same. Plus you save if you can offload Johnna Get a RB? Cut Mixon and save on his contract. I think where we are drafting CB makes the most sense, but have also seen Adebawore mocked to us to play DT and I don't hate that either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie_B Posted April 22, 2023 Author Report Share Posted April 22, 2023 The other part of this is you look at the Bengals drafting history. It hasn't been since Justin Smith that we have taken a D-linemen in the first round. And I can't even remember that last time we took a DT. Was it Wilkinson? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WRAPradio Posted April 22, 2023 Report Share Posted April 22, 2023 38 minutes ago, Jamie_B said: That's the thing, and why BPA is important. Get a TE? Save on having to pay on WR Get a DT? Cost-controlled contract on a premium position. Get a CB? Same thing Get a RT? Again same. Plus you save if you can offload Johnna Get a RB? Cut Mixon and save on his contract. I think where we are drafting CB makes the most sense, but have also seen Adebawore mocked to us to play DT and I don't hate that either. I don’t hate Adebawore at 28. Ideal solution would be trade down and get him later, but that’s not a guarantee. I’m all over the place when it comes to 28…while RB isn’t a premium position Gibbs is so tempting to potentially unlock this offense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie_B Posted April 22, 2023 Author Report Share Posted April 22, 2023 3 minutes ago, WRAPradio said: I don’t hate Adebawore at 28. Ideal solution would be trade down and get him later, but that’s not a guarantee. I’m all over the place when it comes to 28…while RB isn’t a premium position Gibbs is so tempting to potentially unlock this offense. My concern about Gibbs is the running between the tackles. He feels more like a 2nd round pick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
claptonrocks Posted April 22, 2023 Report Share Posted April 22, 2023 2 hours ago, WRAPradio said: Reader: This is his last year and will be 30, will he back? Hopefully, but we may look to get younger Hill: He's got two more years, will be 30 at the end of his contract. He's an OK piece, but I'm not looking at him as an irreplaceable part of the future of this line Tupou: This is his last year...he's just a guy and will be 30 next year Z. Carter: Still on his rookie contract for another three years. Obviously part of the future as long as he gets better. As of now, he's a guy Hendrickson: Two more years, will be 30 at the end of his contract. He's the best edge player we have, we could extend him... Hubbard: Three more years, will be 30 at the end of his contract. He's great against the run, OK getting to the QB Cam Sample: Two more years on his rookie contract and up to this point in his career, he's been "just a guy", IMO Basham: One year deal, no idea what he brings, will be 30 next year We may have a lot of bodies, but the known future of this line are Zach Carter, Hubbard and Cam Sample. You'd pass up on Jalen Carter because we have DJ Reader, BJ Hill, Josh Tupou and Zack Carter? If you have concerns about Jalen Carter's work ethic or off the field problems, that's one thing, but if those things check out for you (us), we'd be silly to pass on him because of the bodies we currently have on the team. If Carter is there they draft him unless they're r fixated on a RT to help JB and run game n round 1... ( I am ) Carter will be drafted within top 15 imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparky151 Posted April 22, 2023 Report Share Posted April 22, 2023 2 hours ago, Jamie_B said: The other part of this is you look at the Bengals drafting history. It hasn't been since Justin Smith that we have taken a D-linemen in the first round. And I can't even remember that last time we took a DT. Was it Wilkinson? John Copeland? Hoping for Jalen Carter is a pipe dream. If the Bengals are confident enough about his character to draft him in round 1, other teams will do so first. Bengals shouldn't trade up in round 1 as it would cost us a useful player later in the draft. If we're looking at DT at pick 28, it would be for a Kancey or Mazi Smith type player. Bad idea IMO. I don't mind getting BJ Hill a better backup than Zach Carter but we can wait until round 4 or 5 for Karl Brooks or Jalen Redmond or Kobie Turner. Besides we all know the team isn't going to cut Carter, a 3rd rounder last year, before his second season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I_C_Deadpeople Posted April 22, 2023 Report Share Posted April 22, 2023 2 hours ago, WRAPradio said: I don’t hate Adebawore at 28. Ideal solution would be trade down and get him later, but that’s not a guarantee. I’m all over the place when it comes to 28…while RB isn’t a premium position Gibbs is so tempting to potentially unlock this offense. I think Adebawore could be classified as a bit of a 'project' and Tobin noted the days of those type of draft picks (or at least high picks) were over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
claptonrocks Posted April 22, 2023 Report Share Posted April 22, 2023 On 4/21/2023 at 5:42 AM, PatternMaster said: I saw Jalen Carter at 19 and realized this was a huge waste of time this wannabe PFF type of list is. Intetesting Why did you think he was a waste? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie_B Posted April 22, 2023 Author Report Share Posted April 22, 2023 1 hour ago, I_C_Deadpeople said: I think Adebawore could be classified as a bit of a 'project' and Tobin noted the days of those type of draft picks (or at least high picks) were over. If Adebaorew is a project, what exactly is Zach Carter? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
claptonrocks Posted April 22, 2023 Report Share Posted April 22, 2023 40 minutes ago, Jamie_B said: If Adebaorew is a project, what exactly is Zach Carter? Zach Carter is a third rounder not a 1st but he failed to show anything last year. 32.1 pff isnt going to cut it as Hills backup.. As much as a OT and TE the 3tech is a need as well .. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T-Dub Posted April 22, 2023 Report Share Posted April 22, 2023 Ah shit I thought it was today for some reason... vamos pues, chinga That's ok, another week to stockpile copium in case they do burn the 1st round pick on an undersized scatback that will get max 10 carries a game running into a turtled Jonah Williams while Collins claps from the sideline & Mixon tries to hide his ankle monitor under his sock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
claptonrocks Posted April 22, 2023 Report Share Posted April 22, 2023 36 minutes ago, T-Dub said: Ah shit I thought it was today for some reason... vamos pues, chinga That's ok, another week to stockpile copium in case they do burn the 1st round pick on an undersized scatback that will get max 10 carries a game running into a turtled Jonah Williams while Collins claps from the sideline & Mixon tries to hide his ankle monitor under his sock This....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
claptonrocks Posted April 22, 2023 Report Share Posted April 22, 2023 7 hours ago, WRAPradio said: I don’t hate Adebawore at 28. Ideal solution would be trade down and get him later, but that’s not a guarantee. I’m all over the place when it comes to 28…while RB isn’t a premium position Gibbs is so tempting to potentially unlock this offense. The offense with or without a10 carry back will be explosive anyway.. Better to take someone that can open holes for any back to run thru .. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie_B Posted April 23, 2023 Author Report Share Posted April 23, 2023 5 hours ago, claptonrocks said: Zach Carter is a third rounder not a 1st but he failed to show anything last year. 32.1 pff isnt going to cut it as Hills backup.. As much as a OT and TE the 3tech is a need as well .. What I'm getting at is Carter was a project that was being moved from DE to DT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
claptonrocks Posted April 23, 2023 Report Share Posted April 23, 2023 11 minutes ago, Jamie_B said: What I'm getting at is Carter was a project that was being moved from DE to DT. Gotcha.. Sometimes way back in my mind I think of Klancy as the 3tect along with Hill. Talk about intetior pressure.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
happyrid Posted April 23, 2023 Report Share Posted April 23, 2023 The closer the draft gets, the less excited I am about the realistic options at 28. I think Forbes is my favorite because he'd add a play-making element at CB that has been missing. Dawand Jones is my second favorite, even if the bust risk is high. Feels like there is enough upside to offset the risk in the late first. What I really want it for the Bengals to trade back out of the first and add another third round pick. While nobody really stands out as a definite difference maker in the first, I do like the depth of this class deep into Day 2. Especially at CB, RB, and TE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cricket Posted April 23, 2023 Report Share Posted April 23, 2023 13 minutes ago, happyrid said: The closer the draft gets, the less excited I am about the realistic options at 28. I think Forbes is my favorite because he'd add a play-making element at CB that has been missing. Dawand Jones is my second favorite, even if the bust risk is high. Feels like there is enough upside to offset the risk in the late first. What I really want it for the Bengals to trade back out of the first and add another third round pick. While nobody really stands out as a definite difference maker in the first, I do like the depth of this class deep into Day 2. Especially at CB, RB, and TE. I, too, like the idea of trading back and picking up an additional third-round pick. However, I believe that pick 28 comes up and there is a CB, TE, OT, or DL unexpectedly available…and they just can’t pass him up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T-Dub Posted April 23, 2023 Report Share Posted April 23, 2023 12 hours ago, WRAPradio said: I don’t hate Adebawore at 28. Ideal solution would be trade down and get him later, but that’s not a guarantee. I’m all over the place when it comes to 28…while RB isn’t a premium position Gibbs is so tempting to potentially unlock this offense. The key to unlocking this offense is keeping the QB clean. Anything else is window dressing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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