TE Offseason 2023

[dex]

1 minute ago, sparky151 said:

We should have at least gone after one of the top undrafted TEs like Whiteheart or Ginstorff. 

We did. Other teams offered serious guaranteed money to the top UDFAs. These days it's better financially to be a top UDFA than it is to be a 7th round pick. Some of these UDFAs are making out like bandits., creating bidding wars and driving up the prices. The NFL needs to regulate this a little more.

[sparky151]

Then they need to increase their budget for UDFAs or at least throw a late round pick at a position of need. We could have had Zach Kuntz at the end of round 6. He'd be more likely to make the roster than Iosivas. We could have had other TE prospects earlier. For that matter, Michael Mayer would have helped the team more in 2023 than Myles Murphy. Instant starter vs rotational player. 

[spicoli]

25 minutes ago, sparky151 said:

Then they need to increase their budget for UDFAs or at least throw a late round pick at a position of need. We could have had Zach Kuntz at the end of round 6. He'd be more likely to make the roster than Iosivas. We could have had other TE prospects earlier. For that matter, Michael Mayer would have helped the team more in 2023 than Myles Murphy. Instant starter vs rotational player. 

When have they ever had a problem signing quality UDFAs? I’d say you could put their yearly haul up there with anyone’s.
They generally do quite well in that department, IMO. 

[dex]

20 minutes ago, spicoli said:

When have they ever had a problem signing quality UDFAs? I’d say you could put their yearly haul up there with anyone’s.
They generally do quite well in that department, IMO. 

They certainly had a problem this year. Guaranteed money beat them to the punch. I really liked the Bengals draft this year, but they seemed to get caught by surprise by the UDFA market this year. I know I was.

[spicoli]

6 minutes ago, dex said:

They certainly had a problem this year. Guaranteed money beat them to the punch. I really liked the Bengals draft this year, but they seemed to get caught by surprise by the UDFA market this year. I know I was.

This is a SB contending roster, they’re not exactly flush with open spots. Sure $$ makes a difference, but so to does opportunity. 

[dex]

1 minute ago, spicoli said:

This is a SB contending roster, they’re not exactly flush with open spots. Sure $$ makes a difference, but so to does opportunity. 

Guaranteed money trumps everything for agents of UDFAs. Some of these guys are getting 250k guaranteed.  Whether they make the 53 man roster/practice squad or just get sent packing after training camp altogether.

[esjbh2]

Doesn't seem like that long ago that there was kind of a "Gentlemen's Agreement" between teams regarding normalizing/standardizing UDFA monies.  I guess things have changed considerably with the signing bonuses and competition to sign desired players.

[T-Dub]

2 hours ago, dex said:

We did. Other teams offered serious guaranteed money to the top UDFAs. These days it's better financially to be a top UDFA than it is to be a 7th round pick. Some of these UDFAs are making out like bandits., creating bidding wars and driving up the prices. The NFL needs to regulate this a little more.

 

What prevents a consensus #1 pick from skipping the draft and creating a bidding war that's not predetermined by the NFL's slotted contract structure?

[MichaelWeston]

21 minutes ago, T-Dub said:

 

What prevents a consensus #1 pick from skipping the draft and creating a bidding war that's not predetermined by the NFL's slotted contract structure?

I think you have to declare for the draft first. 

[snarkster]

When I look at the draft analysis of both "experts" and fans the area the most ging the Bengals in is the "failure" to add depth at TE.  I'm not in agreement.

 

Without 10-12 pick you're not going to be able to address every positional group which you would like to add depth.  In a pretty straight forward draft (except for a late sixth round pick) they were able to seemingly add depth in areas of more positional value.

 

Sure I would've been fine with a Kincaid, Mayer of LaPorta (or even a Kraft, Kuntz, Whylie or Allen for that matter), but the Bengals system is not that reliant on TE's and it's probably one of the easier positions for them to find a quality depth piece or two between now and the start of the season.  Not too bothered that they didn't add a late-round QB prospect either.  I'm hoping they add a veteran backup  (McCarron?) that's an upgrade over Allen (although that could still be the direction in which they go).  I look for them to add a practice squad candidate from the waiver wire between now and the middle of camp as well.

[T-Dub]

20 minutes ago, snarkster said:

When I look at the draft analysis of both "experts" and fans the area the most ging the Bengals in is the "failure" to add depth at TE.  I'm not in agreement.

 

Without 10-12 pick you're not going to be able to address every positional group which you would like to add depth.  In a pretty straight forward draft (except for a late sixth round pick) they were able to seemingly add depth in areas of more positional value.

 

Sure I would've been fine with a Kincaid, Mayer of LaPorta (or even a Kraft, Kuntz, Whylie or Allen for that matter), but the Bengals system is not that reliant on TE's and it's probably one of the easier positions for them to find a quality depth piece or two between now and the start of the season.  Not too bothered that they didn't add a late-round QB prospect either.  I'm hoping they add a veteran backup  (McCarron?) that's an upgrade over Allen (although that could still be the direction in which they go).  I look for them to add a practice squad candidate from the waiver wire between now and the middle of camp as well.

 

Totally agree & would add that Irv Smith Jr may even be an upgrade over Hurst. 

[claptonrocks]

47 minutes ago, T-Dub said:

 

Totally agree & would add that Irv Smith Jr may even be an upgrade over Hurst. 

Im hoping he plays at Hurst's level.

Hurst gave his all here..

 

 

 

[PatternMaster]

9 hours ago, snarkster said:

When I look at the draft analysis of both "experts" and fans the area the most ging the Bengals in is the "failure" to add depth at TE.  I'm not in agreement.

 

Without 10-12 pick you're not going to be able to address every positional group which you would like to add depth.  In a pretty straight forward draft (except for a late sixth round pick) they were able to seemingly add depth in areas of more positional value.

 

Sure I would've been fine with a Kincaid, Mayer of LaPorta (or even a Kraft, Kuntz, Whylie or Allen for that matter), but the Bengals system is not that reliant on TE's and it's probably one of the easier positions for them to find a quality depth piece or two between now and the start of the season.  Not too bothered that they didn't add a late-round QB prospect either.  I'm hoping they add a veteran backup  (McCarron?) that's an upgrade over Allen (although that could still be the direction in which they go).  I look for them to add a practice squad candidate from the waiver wire between now and the middle of camp as well.

 

The Bengals have talent at the TE position, Smith is a first-round pick, Sample is a 2nd round pick, and Asiasi is a 3rd round pick. They have the potential, it's just up to them to play at a high level and hopefully stay healthy. Is a 3rd or 4th round pick going to come in and be better than these guys, probably not, so that's why they didn't draft one...imo. 

[snarkster]

Just because they were 2nd and 3rd round picks doesn't make them talented.   Either is probably OK as a decent-blocking 3rd TE, but neither has shown any indication to this point they are capable of taking the reins should Smith go down for an extended period.  I will almost guarantee they add another better all-around option as a 2nd guy either through free agency or the waiver route and my guess is that adding two more is more likely than adding none.

[T-Dub]

11 hours ago, claptonrocks said:

Im hoping he plays at Hurst's level.

Hurst gave his all here..

 

 

 

 

He usually made the play when his # was called, that's true. Not his fault if that didn't happen very often.

[PatternMaster]

28 minutes ago, snarkster said:

Just because they were 2nd and 3rd round picks doesn't make them talented.   Either is probably OK as a decent-blocking 3rd TE, but neither has shown any indication to this point they are capable of taking the reins should Smith go down for an extended period.  I will almost guarantee they add another better all-around option as a 2nd guy either through free agency or the waiver route and my guess is that adding two more is more likely than adding none.

 

Well actually, it does. If you are drafted in the first 100 picks of any NFL draft you are talented. You more than likely played college football at a Division 1 program and were in the top 0.0001% of all the college football players...so that means you're talented. And this is not just my opinion, this is justified by people who dedicate their life and get paid millions of dollars to evaluate and select TALENTED players. 

 

Just because a concept doesn't fit your narrative doesn't mean it's not true, saying guys who were selected in the top 100 of any NFL draft are talented is just ridiculous. If we were talking about a bunch UDFA from small D 2 schools then you might have a point, but we're not. We're talking about guys who played at big-time programs like Washington and UCLA, schools that put out HOF'ers. Of course they are talented, they wouldn't be in the NFL if they weren't. 

[sparky151]

Uh, we got Asiasi on waivers from NE. I think we were 31st in the waiver order at that point, ahead of only the Rams. So at least 30 NFL teams passed on him when they could have had him for free. Sample was a free agent who attracted no interest on the open market this year. He signed for a veteran minimum benefit deal with $12,500 signing bonus. Smith is making 1.75 mil and was on the open market for more than a week before signing here at a low price. 

 

So yeah, the rest of the league doesn't rate our TE group very highly or at all. 

[T-Dub]

47 minutes ago, sparky151 said:

Uh, we got Asiasi on waivers from NE. I think we were 31st in the waiver order at that point, ahead of only the Rams. So at least 30 NFL teams passed on him when they could have had him for free. Sample was a free agent who attracted no interest on the open market this year. He signed for a veteran minimum benefit deal with $12,500 signing bonus. Smith is making 1.75 mil and was on the open market for more than a week before signing here at a low price. 

 

So yeah, the rest of the league doesn't rate our TE group very highly or at all. 

 

Think it's fair to say the team doesn't rate the TE position very highly, same as RB. Just not a big part of the offense so far.

[spicoli]

73 catches

556 yards 

3 td 

 

Thats the total production we got from our entire TE group last year. 
 

Are you all really trying to go out on a limb and say that this group can’t possibly replicate those elite numbers? 
 

Seems trivial. 

[membengal]

It’s a hilarious argument. It’s trolling. It’s not in good faith. 

[dex]

On a podcast Mike Potts said that a lot of position groups got a big boost in talent, but the TEs didn't work out as they had hoped. All but said that the TE room would get upgraded before the start of the season. One of the options mentioned for adding to the room was a possible trade (referenced BJ Hill).

[I_C_Deadpeople]

5 minutes ago, dex said:

On a podcast Mike Potts said that a lot of position groups got a big boost in talent, but the TEs didn't work out as they had hoped. All but said that the TE room would get upgraded before the start of the season. One of the options mentioned for adding to the room was a possible trade (referenced BJ Hill).

Since the team is now far more open to (and utilizing effectively) free agency at various levels as well as trades, I am happy they stick to their board and pick the best player. The roster can be filled many ways but for so many years it was essentially draft picks or nothing. 

[sparky151]

14 hours ago, spicoli said:

73 catches

556 yards 

3 td 

 

Thats the total production we got from our entire TE group last year. 
 

Are you all really trying to go out on a limb and say that this group can’t possibly replicate those elite numbers? 
 

Seems trivial. 

 

That production was almost all Hurst. Irv Smith is effectively Hurst's replacement.  The rest of the league thinks Hurst is a much better player than Smith so it's no sure thing the current TE group hits even those totals. I would have bet a rookie Mike Mayer would match the yard and TD totals by himself. 

 

2 hours ago, I_C_Deadpeople said:

Since the team is now far more open to (and utilizing effectively) free agency at various levels as well as trades, I am happy they stick to their board and pick the best player. The roster can be filled many ways but for so many years it was essentially draft picks or nothing. 

 

Yes, it's a positive development that the team is now at least a little more open to trading. We're in our Super Bowl window with the current roster and should be patching holes. The defense seems set but there are 3 big question mark positions on offense. 

[dex]

25 minutes ago, sparky151 said:

 

That production was almost all Hurst. Irv Smith is effectively Hurst's replacement.  The rest of the league thinks Hurst is a much better player than Smith so it's no sure thing the current TE group hits even those totals. I would have bet a rookie Mike Mayer would match the yard and TD totals by himself. 

 

 

Yes, it's a positive development that the team is now at least a little more open to trading. We're in our Super Bowl window with the current roster and should be patching holes. The defense seems set but there are 3 big question mark positions on offense. 

Mayer wasn't even the second TE drafted. Some rumors out there that Mayer wasn't among the top 2 TEs on the Bengals board either.

[PatternMaster]

2 hours ago, sparky151 said:

 

That production was almost all Hurst. Irv Smith is effectively Hurst's replacement.  The rest of the league thinks Hurst is a much better player than Smith so it's no sure thing the current TE group hits even those totals. I would have bet a rookie Mike Mayer would match the yard and TD totals by himself. 

 

 

Yes, it's a positive development that the team is now at least a little more open to trading. We're in our Super Bowl window with the current roster and should be patching holes. The defense seems set but there are 3 big question mark positions on offense. 

 

Well I guess we will never know because the Bengals chose not to draft him in the first round, they obviously like the guys on the roster as they didn't draft a TE throughout the entire draft.