Shebengal Posted March 30, 2023 Report Share Posted March 30, 2023 22 minutes ago, HavePityPlease said: Just a note about Irv Smith and "the dropsies", it seems it was two specific drops in particular that set the narrative that he's a "drops guy", because those were highly visible, probable TD drops, the type where everybody groans. I read a couple articles that said pretty much this (without the author knowing it), something along the lines of "this is Smith's second big drop this season, and we'll have to wait and see if it's a habit like the fans fear or just a blip". Considering the number of highlights where he's making very difficult catches I'm not really that worried until he starts actually dropping it here - at which point I'd expect we have at least competent backups ready to go, and we can move on. Again I consider this signing low-risk, high-reward as long as we have a backup plan of simple competency. I seem to recall a few seasons back about one of our WRs suffering from the dropsies in training camp and how freaked out everyone got. Name; Jamarr Chase. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichaelWeston Posted March 30, 2023 Author Report Share Posted March 30, 2023 Irv Smith was a fantastic signing. He has starter level ability, has dealt with injuries and never had a QB like Burrow. He has been buried behind both Rudolph and Hockenson. Very similar to what happened to Hurst. He is only 24 years old. I wouldn't be surprised at all if he started 15 games, caught 50 balls and turned it into a big contract. It's more likely he partners with a rookie, Smith starts, they split snaps, they both get around 30ish catches and then the team leads with the rookie next year and backs him up with whatever TE is last on the market next offseason. It works. Smith was a second rounder for a reason. Smith stats 2019-7 games started-36 catches-311 yards-8.6-2tds-107.7 rating when targeted-1 drop-21 years old 2020-7 games started-30 catches-356 yards-12,2-3tds-134.4 rating when targeted-1 drop-22 years old It was a brilliant signing with huge upside. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparky151 Posted March 30, 2023 Report Share Posted March 30, 2023 He was drafted to replace the elderly Kyle Rudolph but wasn't able to do so. Vikings traded for Hockenson last year to upgrade from Smith. Cousins was a pro bowl QB in 2019 and is at least a middle of the pack NFL QB so I don't think Smith can complain about his QB's play. He's simply the best TE currently on the Bengals roster but his upside isn't "huge". He and a rookie should be able to combine for what Hurst gave us last year in terms of receiving. Smith isn't as good a blocker as Hurst but Hayden wasn't a top blocker himself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dex Posted March 30, 2023 Report Share Posted March 30, 2023 1 hour ago, MichaelWeston said: Irv Smith was a fantastic signing. He has starter level ability, has dealt with injuries and never had a QB like Burrow. He has been buried behind both Rudolph and Hockenson. Very similar to what happened to Hurst. He is only 24 years old. I wouldn't be surprised at all if he started 15 games, caught 50 balls and turned it into a big contract. It's more likely he partners with a rookie, Smith starts, they split snaps, they both get around 30ish catches and then the team leads with the rookie next year and backs him up with whatever TE is last on the market next offseason. It works. Smith was a second rounder for a reason. Smith stats 2019-7 games started-36 catches-311 yards-8.6-2tds-107.7 rating when targeted-1 drop-21 years old 2020-7 games started-30 catches-356 yards-12,2-3tds-134.4 rating when targeted-1 drop-22 years old It was a brilliant signing with huge upside. Agreed. Burrow targeted TEs 92 times last season, even with Hurst missing 4.5 games late in the season. Get a premium round rookie to compliment Smith and maybe the TE position gets over a 100 targets next season. Plenty of room in the middle of the field with Chase/Higgins on the outside. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cricket Posted March 31, 2023 Report Share Posted March 31, 2023 6 hours ago, High School Harry said: So we've got an undersized tight end who can't block the big boys, can't catch and is coming off an injury. Well, if that doesn’t scream, “Super Bowl,” I don’t know what does…🥷 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
happyrid Posted March 31, 2023 Report Share Posted March 31, 2023 4 hours ago, sparky151 said: He was drafted to replace the elderly Kyle Rudolph but wasn't able to do so. Vikings traded for Hockenson last year to upgrade from Smith. Cousins was a pro bowl QB in 2019 and is at least a middle of the pack NFL QB so I don't think Smith can complain about his QB's play. He's simply the best TE currently on the Bengals roster but his upside isn't "huge". He and a rookie should be able to combine for what Hurst gave us last year in terms of receiving. Smith isn't as good a blocker as Hurst but Hayden wasn't a top blocker himself. I feel like you are spinning this too negatively. Smith took over the top job from Rudolph late in his rookie season as a 21-year old. In 2022, Smith suffered a high-ankle sprain in Week 8 (that would keep him out for over two months). The Vikings traded for Hockenson two days after Smith suffered the major injury. Hockenson is an upgrade, I won't argue that. But I suspect that trade would never have happened if Smith didn't get injured. Smith went down, the Vikings didn't have anyone else, and aggressively went out and filled the injury hole via a trade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatternMaster Posted March 31, 2023 Report Share Posted March 31, 2023 15 hours ago, dex said: Agreed. Burrow targeted TEs 92 times last season, even with Hurst missing 4.5 games late in the season. Get a premium round rookie to compliment Smith and maybe the TE position gets over a 100 targets next season. Plenty of room in the middle of the field with Chase/Higgins on the outside. Don't forget about TB, he's going to get some target over the middle as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichaelWeston Posted March 31, 2023 Author Report Share Posted March 31, 2023 1.75 million for Smith. Wow. Thats like 4 Smiths to 1 Hayden Hurst. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
membengal Posted March 31, 2023 Report Share Posted March 31, 2023 26 minutes ago, MichaelWeston said: 1.75 million for Smith. Wow. Thats like 4 Smiths to 1 Hayden Hurst. It's a tremendous value deal for a guy with legit upside. At the very least, he is perfectly capable of 50 catches in this offense, same as we've had from Uzomah and Hurst in the last two years... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|BlackJesus| Posted March 31, 2023 Report Share Posted March 31, 2023 1 hour ago, MichaelWeston said: 1.75 million for Smith. Wow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MOC Posted March 31, 2023 Report Share Posted March 31, 2023 18 hours ago, sparky151 said: Last year's numbers are easy to find. It's not really recency bias, some Vikings fans said he drops a lot of balls and the stats seem to bear that out. It's based on catchable balls rather than targets. Not the receiver's fault if the QB throws it out of bounds. Usually the higher % shows lower volume as the QB might have trust issues. Chase had more total drops than Smith if that makes you feel better due to much higher volume. Not really. Smith was probably the best TE left but there are better options in the draft. Smith is a backup caliber TE. He played behind Kyle Rudolph and TJ Hockensen for the Vikes. He'll likely be a backup to a rookie TE here. Let's not make him more than he is. WOW, who pissed in your Cheerios? All I did was ask a few questions to try and get a better handle on your assessment of Smith, and I'm too lazy to look them up myself and it seemed like you had already done the research? But if that "makes you feel better" then carry on Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparky151 Posted March 31, 2023 Report Share Posted March 31, 2023 13 hours ago, happyrid said: I feel like you are spinning this too negatively. Smith took over the top job from Rudolph late in his rookie season as a 21-year old. In 2022, Smith suffered a high-ankle sprain in Week 8 (that would keep him out for over two months). The Vikings traded for Hockenson two days after Smith suffered the major injury. Hockenson is an upgrade, I won't argue that. But I suspect that trade would never have happened if Smith didn't get injured. Smith went down, the Vikings didn't have anyone else, and aggressively went out and filled the injury hole via a trade. Eh, I'm pushing back on the narrative that getting Smith is a brilliant signing with huge upside. He's probably the best TE left on the market after better players like Hurst, Schultz, Gesicki, etc signed elsewhere. This is a good draft for TEs so signing Smith lets the Bengals use 1 pick instead of 2 at the position. 2 hours ago, MichaelWeston said: 1.75 million for Smith. Wow. Thats like 4 Smiths to 1 Hayden Hurst. He can make up to 2 mil with incentives but this is a cheap signing. He's being paid a little less than Tre Flowers was last year and I doubt anyone would say keeping Flowers around was brilliant. Tre is a useful player who fills a particular role well. Likewise Smith. He won't help the run game much and how much he helps the passing game depends on his route running and the confidence that Burrow has in him. If he gets open and catches the ball, then Burrow will find him. 35 minutes ago, MOC said: WOW, who pissed in your Cheerios? All I did was ask a few questions to try and get a better handle on your assessment of Smith, and I'm too lazy to look them up myself and it seemed like you had already done the research? But if that "makes you feel better" then carry on Er, I"m not upset. Chase had more drops than Smith last year due to much higher volume. People determined to spin for Smith tried to use Smith's 2 drops as a sign of good hands, not noting he missed a lot of games and had a fairly high drop %. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T-Dub Posted March 31, 2023 Report Share Posted March 31, 2023 I think the Smith & Ford signings are in the same category, low-risk back up plans for depth or in case they whiff on those positions in the draft. Wouldn't be at all surprised to see one at RB in the next ~3 weeks... Unless that guy is Mixon, I'm sure he'll be closely watching the draft from his well-stocked bunker under the gazebo or whatever is going on there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MOC Posted March 31, 2023 Report Share Posted March 31, 2023 1 hour ago, sparky151 said: Eh, I'm pushing back on the narrative that getting Smith is a brilliant signing with huge upside. He's probably the best TE left on the market after better players like Hurst, Schultz, Gesicki, etc signed elsewhere. This is a good draft for TEs so signing Smith lets the Bengals use 1 pick instead of 2 at the position. He can make up to 2 mil with incentives but this is a cheap signing. He's being paid a little less than Tre Flowers was last year and I doubt anyone would say keeping Flowers around was brilliant. Tre is a useful player who fills a particular role well. Likewise Smith. He won't help the run game much and how much he helps the passing game depends on his route running and the confidence that Burrow has in him. If he gets open and catches the ball, then Burrow will find him. Er, I"m not upset. Chase had more drops than Smith last year due to much higher volume. People determined to spin for Smith tried to use Smith's 2 drops as a sign of good hands, not noting he missed a lot of games and had a fairly high drop %. I wasn't trying to "spin" Smith? I was truly curious regarding your assessment. And I was referring to your choosing to use the phrase, when replying to me "if it makes you feel better" like I needed a hug from you or something? Regardless Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
claptonrocks Posted March 31, 2023 Report Share Posted March 31, 2023 25 minutes ago, MOC said: I wasn't trying to "spin" Smith? I was truly curious regarding your assessment. And I was referring to your choosing to use the phrase, when replying to me "if it makes you feel better" like I needed a hug from you or something? Regardless Oh come on.. Take the hug..😎 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|kennethmw| Posted March 31, 2023 Report Share Posted March 31, 2023 19 hours ago, Cricket said: Well, if that doesn’t scream, “Super Bowl,” I don’t know what does…🥷 or Negative Nancy!!🤣🤣 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|kennethmw| Posted March 31, 2023 Report Share Posted March 31, 2023 4 hours ago, BlackJesus said: with a Huge Cigar Assist!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stan Posted April 1, 2023 Report Share Posted April 1, 2023 On 3/29/2023 at 3:21 PM, sparky151 said: The expectation isn't that they can block those guys one on one repeatedly. The expectation is that they can combine with the RT to keep them from impacting Burrow or they can chip and run a route or they can make it upfield past them on a running play to block at the second level. Smith would be notably worse than lots of other TEs at those tasks. Exactly.It's not the TE's job to block DE's.That's what an offensive tackle is supposed to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichaelWeston Posted April 2, 2023 Author Report Share Posted April 2, 2023 Starting to go through the draft. I am certainly not the draft guru many of you are here but here is who I liked. Round 1-Mayer Day 2-Schoonmaker-Kraft-LaPorta Day 3-Kuntz Big fan of Purdues Payne Durham-21 tds over his career and a good blocker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie_B Posted April 14, 2023 Report Share Posted April 14, 2023 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie_B Posted April 14, 2023 Report Share Posted April 14, 2023 Goodberry doesnt think this is as good of a class as everyone says, says the first 3 guys are there but after that its not great, also says because its such a weak WR class your gonna get some of these guys get overdrafted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|westside bengal| Posted April 14, 2023 Report Share Posted April 14, 2023 32 minutes ago, Jamie_B said: Goodberry doesnt think this is as good of a class as everyone says, says the first 3 guys are there but after that its not great, also says because its such a weak WR class your gonna get some of these guys get overdrafted. Who is his 3? Mayer, Kincaid and ?. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie_B Posted April 14, 2023 Report Share Posted April 14, 2023 11 hours ago, westside bengal said: Who is his 3? Mayer, Kincaid and ?. Mayer, Washington and Laporta, the Kincaid pick they said they would be fine with but the injury thing made them press pause. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dex Posted April 14, 2023 Report Share Posted April 14, 2023 55 minutes ago, Jamie_B said: Mayer, Washington and Laporta, the Kincaid pick they said they would be fine with but the injury thing made them press pause. LaPorta is starting to get a lot of back of the 1st round buzz. He has been harder to project because of Iowa's weird offense and bad QB play, but the ball skills and RAS numbers are elite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichaelWeston Posted April 14, 2023 Author Report Share Posted April 14, 2023 1 hour ago, Jamie_B said: Mayer, Washington and Laporta, the Kincaid pick they said they would be fine with but the injury thing made them press pause. My list Kincaid but not Musgrave? Seems weird? TE Micheal Mayer-ND (1) C Luke Musgrave-Oregon St (1) Tucker Kraft-SD State (2) Dalton Kincaid-Utah (2) Sam LaPorta-Iowa (2) C Luke Schoonmaker-Michigan (4) Davis Allen-Clemson (4) C Zack Kuntz-Old Dominion (5) C Payne Durham-Purdue (5-6) Travis Vokolek-Nebraska (U) C Jack Colletto-Oregon St (U) ST Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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