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TE Offseason 2023


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1 minute ago, T-Dub said:

 

It gives us a starter if he's healthy. Which he hasn't been often. Along with overdrafting a blocking TE, I know we've already done the "starting TE if he's healthy - but he's not" thing. Didn't work out so well.

 

A draft pick is not a starting RT, it's a scratch-off ticket.  Maybe it's a starting RT, maybe it's a Cedric Ogbuehi.  It means reaching for a questionable player because we're desperate for an immediate starter & still there are no guarantees.  Jonah Williams at RT sounds like more 3+ sacks & 2-point-dick yards per carry games to me.. 

 

I think Jonah would make a fine RT, or guard. He's just nothing more than average, or worse at LT. I'm not disagreeing with you about Irv, but he's the best left at TE, and he only signed a one year prove it deal. I suspect he will, and move on while our drafted TE learns the ropes.

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11 hours ago, sparky151 said:

Neither Washington's game film or workouts suggest he can't move. He was well known for his ability to block in space as well as inline. If we draft a TE in the first, I wouldn't cry if the team took Washington instead of Mayer or Kincaid. I'd probably prefer Dawand Jones at pick 28 though. 

Jones?..yeah 

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2 hours ago, T-Dub said:

 

I think he lacks the power to play RT but I suspect we're going to find out

No we arent.

 

They'll trade him, save cap and abide by his wishes in good .faiith..

That's who they are now..

 

An extra draft pick and his cap off the books makes good sense.

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My only concern with Irv Smith is his height, at 6'2 and 240 lbs he's more of a FB than a TE, he's not going to give you much in blocking and doesn't really create many size mismatch opportunities that bigger TE have with LB's, CB's, and Safeties. 

 

I can't see him starting for us honestly, he's been a backup for most of his career. He reminds me of Ryan Hewitt, a TE that played FB for us a few years ago. If they use him like that then I can see him starting, but if they try to use him as a traditional TE he's going to get abused in this division if he's asked to block guys like Myles Garrett or TJ Watt. 

 

Ideally, they would still get a bigger TE that can offer more in the blocking game. 

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5 hours ago, claptonrocks said:

No we arent.

 

They'll trade him, save cap and abide by his wishes in good .faiith..

That's who they are now..

 

An extra draft pick and his cap off the books makes good sense.

 

Then we're forced to start a rookie or one of the highly questionable backups. Making Ford the RT1 for now?

 

47 minutes ago, PatternMaster said:

My only concern with Irv Smith is his height, at 6'2 and 240 lbs he's more of a FB than a TE, he's not going to give you much in blocking 

 

A FB that doesn't block sounds pretty useless to me.. That's just a fat, slow RB 😆

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I did some brief "research" on Irv Smith's blocking, there's valid points all around here.  He is undersized, and nothing can fix that so the bigger/better DE's will bat him away without much problem (and this can be seen in some highlights).  He is, however, a very willing blocker and thus second-level blocking and "brief sustain"/back-side chip style blocking suits him fine.  The question is how often does he actually have to be a one-on-one blocker with people he shouldn't' be blocking?  You'd hope not often, but we've seen that happen in our offense before.  If we could somehow "solve" the RT problem this wouldn't be as worrisome but we are where we are.  

 

At the end of the day fans should be excited about the possibilities of this guy in the passing game, and mildly concerned/in a "wait-and-see" posture about his blocking :scare2:

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49 minutes ago, HavePityPlease said:

I did some brief "research" on Irv Smith's blocking, there's valid points all around here.  He is undersized, and nothing can fix that so the bigger/better DE's will bat him away without much problem (and this can be seen in some highlights).  He is, however, a very willing blocker and thus second-level blocking and "brief sustain"/back-side chip style blocking suits him fine.  The question is how often does he actually have to be a one-on-one blocker with people he shouldn't' be blocking?  You'd hope not often, but we've seen that happen in our offense before.  If we could somehow "solve" the RT problem this wouldn't be as worrisome but we are where we are.  

 

At the end of the day fans should be excited about the possibilities of this guy in the passing game, and mildly concerned/in a "wait-and-see" posture about his blocking :scare2:

 

Yeah if your TE is trying to block an LDE or NT solo someone goofed.. 

 

And that someone will probably be our RT, hopefully as a rookie mistake and not because they're a backup-quality player.

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31 minutes ago, HavePityPlease said:

I did some brief "research" on Irv Smith's blocking, there's valid points all around here.  He is undersized, and nothing can fix that so the bigger/better DE's will bat him away without much problem (and this can be seen in some highlights).  He is, however, a very willing blocker and thus second-level blocking and "brief sustain"/back-side chip style blocking suits him fine.  The question is how often does he actually have to be a one-on-one blocker with people he shouldn't' be blocking?  You'd hope not often, but we've seen that happen in our offense before.  If we could somehow "solve" the RT problem this wouldn't be as worrisome but we are where we are.  

 

At the end of the day fans should be excited about the possibilities of this guy in the passing game, and mildly concerned/in a "wait-and-see" posture about his blocking :scare2:

 

Good points, I think he can definitely add value but how the Bengals use him will determine his level of success. If they let him get a few steps and get in front of the LBs and safeties then he can be successful, but if they are asking him to block DEs or OLBs in a 3-4 defense 1v1 then he might struggle. Hopefully they use him similarly to how they used Ryan Hewitt, coming out of the backfield on wheel and swing routes and blocking back 7 guys 1v1. 

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This is a good signing. We should still sign a blocking specialist TE to be TE3. I'd go for Jesse James if he's willing to leave Detroit. He shouldn't be expensive. At the very least we should be able to re-sign Sample and Wilcox. Nobody is beating down their doors. 

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1 hour ago, sparky151 said:

This is a good signing. We should still sign a blocking specialist TE to be TE3. I'd go for Jesse James if he's willing to leave Detroit. He shouldn't be expensive. At the very least we should be able to re-sign Sample and Wilcox. Nobody is beating down their doors. 

I wouldn't be surprised if we added 2 more TEs, one in the draft and one more in FA. Currently, the cupboards are pretty bare.. 

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50 minutes ago, PatternMaster said:

I wouldn't be surprised if we added 2 more TEs, one in the draft and one more in FA. Currently, the cupboards are pretty bare.. 

 

Ditto RB but thinking more like 2 in the draft, or a true RB and then more of a hybrid like Gio (if we're very lucky) or that TE/FB style HB like Hewitt etc (an easier get I would think)..

 

Didn't the Rams have a flex TE like that when Zac was there?

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3 hours ago, sparky151 said:

This is a good signing. We should still sign a blocking specialist TE to be TE3. I'd go for Jesse James if he's willing to leave Detroit. He shouldn't be expensive. At the very least we should be able to re-sign Sample and Wilcox. Nobody is beating down their doors. 

Who's a better blocker..

James or Sample?

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IMO it would be James. He and Sample were both originally early round draft picks. James was ok for the Stoolers, then got a good contract in Detroit. But hasn't done much for the Lions. Sample never lived up to his draft status and isn't a notably good blocker.

 

Another name would be Mycole Pruitt, recently of the Falcons. He'd likely be cheap and PFF gives him good grades as a blocker. 

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13 hours ago, claptonrocks said:

 

An extra draft pick and his cap off the books makes good sense.

 

I have a sneaking suspicion we will package him with a draft pick to move up some in the early rounds. Pretty much serves the same purpose.

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2 hours ago, HavePityPlease said:

 

Seriously, we might as well just post the Joe smoking a cigar pic/meme for every positive thing that happens to the Bengals at this point.

 

Get him a real god damn OL finally FFS and let him cook.  We'd already have 2 SB's and probably a win in at least one if the OL wasn't so dogshit.

 

I understand they're making an effort now but LFG already

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31 minutes ago, T-Dub said:

 

Get him a real god damn OL finally FFS and let him cook.  We'd already have 2 SB's and probably a win in at least one if the OL wasn't so dogshit.

 

I understand they're making an effort now but LFG already

Honestly what could they do to make you happy?  You’ve beaten this horse to death.  They signed 3 new free agent starters last year and the best possible free agent LT this year.  It’s not their fault they had catastrophic injuries hit the o-line all in a row right at the end of last season.  Sometimes shit doesn’t work out.  There’s not a team in the league that could have won it all with losing 3 starting linemen for the playoffs.  Hopefully it doesn’t happen again but who knows?  It’s a salary cap league and you can’t afford 9 starter quality players on the OL.  They should be able to add to what they have in the draft but remaining free agents are slim pickings.  It’s still going to be a better unit going into Week 1 with Brown in the mix.

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See some things that aren't quite true here about Smith. He actually did play starter snaps in Minnesota most of the time he was healthy. 

 

-In 2020, he played over 60% of the snaps in 6 of the first 7 games. Got hurt in the eighth game and missed a few weeks, came back less than 100%, then played around 85% of the snaps the final three games to close out the season. Was around 60% of the snaps in both their playoff games. 

 

-Missed all of 2021. 

 

-In 2022, he didn't play a ton Week 1 due to a finger injury but was again playing about 60% of the snaps Week 2 -7 before getting hurt in Week 8. 

 

For context, when Hayden Hurst was healthy last season, he typically played around 65% of the snaps. He had two games all season in which he played more than 75% fo the snaps. 

 

Whenever Smith was healthy the last three years, he was used in basically the same role we used Hurst last year. The injury concerns are real but saying he was a seldom-used backup or fullback isn't really true. 

 

 

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