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OL Offseason 2023


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Some thoughts. 

1. I have been rethinking my take on Free Agency and lineman. I don't think you win with 5 total stars. As Jay and Paul say, I think you win with no donkeys. But It's not 5 no donkeys. It's 7 no donkeys. 

2. You need 5 good starters. 1 Swing tackle. 1 Interior lineman. 

3. We have 4 good starters. Cappa-Karras-Williams-Volson in that order. 

4. We need a starting RT, at least for the beginning of the year. 

5. We need a starting LT for 2024.

6. We can upgrade from Volson. 

7. I'd target 3 veterans none that would cost much. (Starting RT, Swing Tackle, Interior Lineman)

 

    C Age Overall Pass Block Run Block Snaps Starts 2022/Career Notes    
    Karras-Bengals 30 62.6 55.4 76.2 1100 16/65 2025    
    Hill-Bengals 23 57 68.2 53 7 0/3 2025    
Starters
    Kelce-Eagles 36 89.5 83.3 90.1 1358 17/176      
    Pocic-Browns 28 79 71.5 79.1 819 13/53      
    McGovern-Jets 30 69.6 69.5 69.7 1111 17/84 C-RG Pollack 2020 97.9 eff
    Bradbury-Vikings 28 67.5 63.8 70.5 866 12/57      
9   Bozeman-Panthers 28 63.1 53.3 67.3 680 11/60      
Possible Starters
    Brunskill-49ers 29 67.3 74 60.6 609 2/42      
    Brendel-49ers 31 62.9 71.8 61.9 1252 17/20      
    Feliciano-Giants 31 57 66.5 54.7 1095 15/54      
    Blythe-Seahawks 31 54.7 66.2 51.1 1106 17/66 C-RG    
2   Quesenberry-Texans 28 36.6 25.8 43.7 990 16/26      
Depth
    Schweitzer-Commanders 30 59.3 42.9 65.3 419 6/60 C-RG-LG   96 eff
6   Skura-Rams 30 48.3 68.1 41 466 8/73 LG-C-RG   96.8 eff
No idea
  4 Levin-Titans 29 68.3 24.2 46.7 525 3/4      
    Larsen-Commanders 32 58.2 35.9 63.4 534 8/29      
    Fuller-Seahawks 29 56.3 50.7 56.9 54 0/12      
    Clapp-Chargers 27 54.3 73.4 42.3 333 3/10      
    Schlottman-Vikings 28 48.7 46.1 55.3 236 4/11      
    Martin-Commanders 30 42.6 30.7 55.4 156 2/64      
2   McCray-Texans 31 41.4 25.4 55.4 151 2/29      
                       
    G Age Overall Pass Block Run Block Snaps Starts 2022/Career Notes  
    Cappa-Bengals 28 67.6 71.4 62.3 1086 16/62 2026    
    Volson-Bengals 25 53.3 52.7 54.4 1305 16/16 2026    
    Scharping-Bengals 27 43.4 37.4 48.5 228 0/33      
Starters
    Seumalo-Eagles 30 72.7 78.2 67.8 1350 17/60 LG-RG    
  4 Davis-Titans 27 70.6 66.8 69.8 682 12/54 RG    
    Powers-Ravens 26 62.3 86.7 50.1 1163 17/36 LG-RG    
5   Risner-Broncos 28 61.1 72.6 53.4 967 15/62 LG   97.1 Eff
Possible Starters
3   Hernandez-Cardinals 28 65.4 79.1 61.1 843 13/69 RG-LG   98.2 Eff
    Brown-Lions 27 64.8 45.5 69.5 768 12/24 RG-C    
8   Wilkinson-Falcons 28 64.3 70.7 64.4 574 9/36 LG-RT-RG   97.5 Eff
    McGovern-Cowboys 26 53.5 76.6 43.1 1011 15/29 LG-RG-C   97.4 Eff
Depth
1   Schofield-Bears 33 66.9 75 62.7 418 5/86 RG-LG-LT-RT    
6   Aboushi-Rams 32 65.2 60 65.9 339 4/51 RG-LG    
3   Pugh-Cardinals 33 61 52.5 62.4 263 5/119 LG-RT-RG-LG    
    Gates-Giants 28 60 69 58.2 413 8/29 LG-C-RT   97.4 Eff
6   Edwards-Rams 26 58.2 27.8 75.6 230 4/45 LG-RG Concussion  
    Herbig-Jets 25 58 58.6 55.7 707 11/28 RG-LG    
3   Garcia-Cardinals 31 54.5 51.7 55.2 542 7/59 LG-RG-C   97.3 Eff
    Turner-Commanders 30 53 59.1 52.7 766 12/118 RG-RT    
    Allegreti-Chiefs 27 52.4 35.4 60.9 286 3/12 LG-RG    
    Feeney-Jets 29 51.8 64.1 56.5 109 2/64 RG-C-LG   96.9 Eff
5   Compton-Broncos 34 46.6 48.5 46.9 30 0/44 RT-RG-LG-LT Pollack 2019  
4   Pryor-Colts 28 44.9 40.8 50.8 576 9/24 LT-RG-RT    
    Saffold-Bills 35 44 50.2 43.4 1195 16/173 LT-RG-RT-LG    
3   Ford-Cardinals 26 41.2 46 39 350 3/32 LG-RG-RT    
No idea
    Boettger-Bills 29 62.8 78.8 59.9 6 0/17 LG Achilles  
    Ferentz-Pats 34 53.4 74.5 43.8 268 3/9 C-LG-RG    
    Haynes-Seahawks 28 57.1 60.2 58.1 485 3/5 Seahawks    
                       
    T Age Overall Pass Block Run Block Snaps Starts 2022/Career Notes  
    Smith-Bengals 25 68.2 70.1 64.1 15 0/1   2025  
    Williams-Bengals 25 61 62.8 51 1131 16/42   2024  
    Carman-Bengals 23 58.3 67.2 48.9 172 0/6   2025  
    Collins-Bengals 30 57.9 44.2 73.5 951 15/86   2025  
    Adeniji-Bengals 25 46.9 36.2 58.9 418 1/15   2024  
Starters
    McGary-Falcons 28 86.6 66.9 91.6 1051 17/62 RT   97.4 Eff
    Brown-Chiefs 27 75.7 76.6 68.7 1270 17/75 LT    
    McGlinchey-49ers 29 70.3 65.4 70.7 1210 17/69 RT   96.9 Eff
    Wylie-Chiefs 29 61.4 61.3 60.4 1230 17/59 RT-RG-LG   95.8 Eff
  3 Taylor-Jaguars 26 59.5 75.9 39.7 1230 17/66 RT   98.4 Eff
    Wynn-Pats 26 54.6 52.8 63.2 423 7/40 RT-LT   95.2 Eff
Possible Starters
7   Eluemunor-Raiders 28 75.3 76.1 75.7 940 17/31 RT-RG-LT   97.4 Eff
5   Fleming-Broncos 31 72.6 74.1 67.8 976 15/61 RT-LT   96.9 Eff
    Beachum-Cardinals 34 70.6 76.4 59.6 1178 17/147 RT-LT Pollack 2019 96.5 Eff
    Nijman-Pacs 27 63.1 74.4 54.1 756 13/21 RT-LT   96.1 Eff
    Pipkins-Chargers 27 59.8 65.4 50.5 968 14/24 RT-LT   97.1 Eff
Swing Tackle
8   Edoga-Falcons 26 77.8 62.5 84.9 55 2/26 LT-RT-LG Pollack 2020 97.7 Eff
6   Nsekhe-Rams 38 70.6 80.7 67.5 424 8/25 LT-RT-LG   97.6 Eff
    Fisher-Dolphins 33 68.2 73.3 61 874 15/28 LT-RT 2021 Stats 94.7 Eff
  1 Wells-Bucs 32 66.5 66.4 66.77 326 7/24 RT-LT   97.3 Eff
    Shell-Dolphins 31 64.9 51.7 75.9 761 11/72 RT-LT Pollack 2019 95.4 Eff
1   Reiff-Bears 34 64.3 67 59.1 542 10/149 RT-LT 96.1  
    Cannon-Pats 35 63.7 53.6 66.2 207 4/77 RT-LT-LG-RG   93.9 Eff
    Quesenberry-Bills 33 59.3 62.3 53.7 397 3/26 RT-LT   95.3 Eff
4   Kelly-Colts 33 58.9 52.9 64.2 240 3/54 LT-RT-RG-LG   95.3 Eff
  4 Clark-Titans 30 57.2 60.1 52.1 114 2/18 RT-LT   94.5 Eff
5   Turner-Broncos 32 56.3 50.7 57.3 483 7/75 RT-RG-LT-LG   96.2 Eff
    Fant-Jets 31 48.4 46.7 56.3 516 7/60 RT-LT Pollack 2020 95.5 Eff
No idea
    Scott-Stealers 29 70.9 68.6 65.5 31 1/20 RG-LT-RT   95.5 Eff 21
    Peters-Cowboys 41 70.2 62.5 70.3 268 1/219 LT-RG-RT   95.5 Eff
    Lewan-Titans 32 67.3 64.5 79.4 64 2/100 LT   97.1 Eff
    Cajuste-Pats 27 65.7 53.6 72.4 197 3/5 RT    
    James-Ravens 31 65.3 86 47.5 24 1/66 LT-RT    
5   Anderson-Broncos 27 65 77.8 59.3 439 7/12 LT   95.6 Eff
    Dillard-Eagles 28 58.3 84.7 55 58 0/9 LT    
9   Erving-Panthers 31 53.9 78.5 58.3 6 0/56 LT-LG-RG-C    
    Remmers-Jets 34 51 59.9 50.4 61 1/91 RT-RG-LT   91.9 Eff
    Ogbuehi-Jets 31 47.7 57 41.8 286 5/35 RT-LT   95.6 Eff
    Christian-Dolphins 27 46 44.7 42.7 12 0/16 LT-RT    
    Hubbard-Browns 32 40.9 22.7 53.4 39 4/85 RG-RT-LT   86.4 Eff
    Little-Dolphins 26 35.1 30.6 41.7 533 7/13 RT-LT    
    McDermott-Pats 31 65.8 53.7 79.8 437 6/12   Pollack 2020 Patriots

 

My options

Starting RT

1. Kelvin Beachum-Former Pollack guy, great pass blocking numbers for his career. Last Contract 2 years 4 million for Cardinals

2. Jermaine Eluemunor-Great numbers all around last year still young at 28. Last Contract 1 year 1.25 million for Raiders

 

Swing Tackle

1.George Fant-Former Pollack guy, true swing guy. Up and down throughout the years. 3 years 27 million dollar contract with Jets

2.Ty Nsekhe-38 but not that level of tread. 1 year 1.120 with Rams

3.Riley Reiff-I dont remember what happened when he left. But if bridges weren't burned he could be a solid swing. Reiff signed a 1 year 3 million dollar deal with the Bears. 

 

Interior Depth

1. Wes Schweitzer-Commanders veteran who has played at LG-C-RG. With most success at Guard. Last Contract: 3 years 13.5million

2. Matt Skura-Last two years at LG, Previous 3 at C, First year at RG. Last Contract: 1year 1.035million

3. Conner McGovern-Only 26, McGovern started for Dallas at LG last year, He split time the year prior at both guards. The year prior to that he started at RG. He has also been the emergency C. The type of guy who could compete for the LG spot but have the bonus of backing up C and RG. Rookie contract

4. Nick Gates-Started at C 2020, Split time at C and LG this year. Played RG and RT as a rookie. Last Contract: 2 years 6.825million

5. Max Garcia-7 starts this year at Left and Right Guard. 11 starts last year at C and RG. Last Contract: 1 year 1.12million

6. Dan Feeney-100 snaps last year at RG, Previously was at C and LG. Last Contract: 1 year 3 million

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1 hour ago, Le Tigre said:

Overall impression: 

 

Either there are a whole lot of good linemen playing for peanuts; or there are a whole lot of so-so/below average type waiting for their next 1-year contract 

 

Sure the Bengals don’t already have the latter on the roster? 

I think the PFF scores help out a bit here.

 

I think at tackle Beachum and Nsekhe are actually good but just paid bad because of age. 

I think at C/G you might be exactly right. These might not be upgrades.

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1 hour ago, MichaelWeston said:

 

I think they are done with him. Can't cut him until he passes a physical. Or we incur a 2.4 hit. Wouldn't surprise me if he never passes a physical or plays again. Seems to have bad motivation.

Would an injury settlement work?  Can they offer one?

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4 hours ago, MichaelWeston said:

 

I think they are done with him. Can't cut him until he passes a physical. Or we incur a 2.4 hit. Wouldn't surprise me if he never passes a physical or plays again. Seems to have bad motivation.

 

Yeah he hasn't been healthy since he got here so it's kinda bullshit they can't cut him. Their mistake in offering a contract to an injured player, or did he pass a physical then show up day one of camp like "ooh my taint hurts coach!"  Who determines if he's healthy enough to cut?

 

Have to disagree that Jonah Williams is a good LT. He gave up the most sacks of anyone at the position last year, right? That is objectively bad. Carman was written off as dead then came off the bench to fill in and looked like a slight improvement if anything.  

 

Williams seems like another of those guys the team wants to be good because of the investment, but he simply isn't. They need to get over that shit and accept what their eyes are seeing on the field. They can draft a guy that sucks at #1 and pay him $100 mil, there's no guarantees. There's been a tendency to play make-believe instead of admitting mistakes and that always makes it 100x worse. This is not a good business for sentimental types.

 

Anyway thanks for the breakdown of the likely top candidates out there, really interesting stuff 

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24 minutes ago, T-Dub said:

 

Yeah he hasn't been healthy since he got here so it's kinda bullshit they can't cut him. Their mistake in offering a contract to an injured player, or did he pass a physical then show up day one of camp like "ooh my taint hurts coach!"  Who determines if he's healthy enough to cut?

 

Have to disagree that Jonah Williams is a good LT. He gave up the most sacks of anyone at the position last year, right? That is objectively bad. Carman was written off as dead then came off the bench to fill in and looked like a slight improvement if anything.  

 

Williams seems like another of those guys the team wants to be good because of the investment, but he simply isn't. They need to get over that shit and accept what their eyes are seeing on the field. They can draft a guy that sucks at #1 and pay him $100 mil, there's no guarantees. There's been a tendency to play make-believe instead of admitting mistakes and that always makes it 100x worse. This is not a good business for sentimental types.

 

Anyway thanks for the breakdown of the likely top candidates out there, really interesting stuff 

 

I don't disagree with you on Jonah but he was good in 2021 and he was injured this year.....and his contract is guaranteed. He will start at LT this year. He is one of 5 locks on the line 

1. Cappa

2. Karras

3. Jonah

4. Volson

5. Carman

 

The other guys could all be gone. 

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2 hours ago, MichaelWeston said:

 

I don't disagree with you on Jonah but he was good in 2021 and he was injured this year.....and his contract is guaranteed. He will start at LT this year. He is one of 5 locks on the line 

1. Cappa

2. Karras

3. Jonah

4. Volson

5. Carman

 

The other guys could all be gone. 

 

I would say Jonah was just ok last year. He was still getting overpowered way too often for my liking 

 

You have Carman starting at RT then?  Don't hate it but I liked some of what I saw at LT. I hope TC is a battle, as it should be. The best 5 play, not the 5 biggest contracts.

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Collins can certainly be cut if the team wants to, with no further money owed. His contract isn't guaranteed for 2023 or 2024.

 

I'm in a mock offseason at another site and signed Beachum for about 6 mil, then traded Collins to Atlanta (they'd lost McGary in free agency) for a late 5th round pick. Graham Glasgow was a cap cut by the Broncos and we signed him for about 2.6 mil per year. Broncos were also shopping Garrett Bolles for a 2nd rounder and we nearly made a deal with them taking Williams and his guaranteed salary. 

 

In that mock, we're looking for a new LT to succeed Jonah, with Carman as the swing guy. Glasgow replaces Sharping. He can challenge Volson or provide quality depth at center and both guard spots. 

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6 hours ago, MichaelWeston said:

 

I don't disagree with you on Jonah but he was good in 2021 and he was injured this year.....and his contract is guaranteed. He will start at LT this year. He is one of 5 locks on the line 

1. Cappa

2. Karras

3. Jonah

4. Volson

5. Carman

 

The other guys could all be gone. 

 

3 hours ago, T-Dub said:

 

I would say Jonah was just ok last year. He was still getting overpowered way too often for my liking 

 

You have Carman starting at RT then?  Don't hate it but I liked some of what I saw at LT. I hope TC is a battle, as it should be. The best 5 play, not the 5 biggest contracts.

I don't expect Carman to start. I would just say he won't be cut. 

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3 hours ago, sparky151 said:

Collins can certainly be cut if the team wants to, with no further money owed. His contract isn't guaranteed for 2023 or 2024.

 

I'm in a mock offseason at another site and signed Beachum for about 6 mil, then traded Collins to Atlanta (they'd lost McGary in free agency) for a late 5th round pick. Graham Glasgow was a cap cut by the Broncos and we signed him for about 2.6 mil per year. Broncos were also shopping Garrett Bolles for a 2nd rounder and we nearly made a deal with them taking Williams and his guaranteed salary. 

 

In that mock, we're looking for a new LT to succeed Jonah, with Carman as the swing guy. Glasgow replaces Sharping. He can challenge Volson or provide quality depth at center and both guard spots. 

 

I think Carman could at least push Jonah in camp, if not beat him out for the spot..  If they'll let him.

 

Good news about Collins, let's hope a potential starter RT lands in the draft & they can get some average FA on a short term deal as backup so Collins can take his malingering ass back to Dallas or wherever.

 

Last year they stocked up on interior OL.  If they do the same at OT this year we might finally have a fairly solid OL again.

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52 minutes ago, Jamie_B said:

This staff has been pretty good about letting the best players play.

 

I'm not so sure about that. We've watched them let guys "take turns" because the coaches couldn't make a decision on who should be playing. Maybe that was a product of Clappy Lewis or Ketchup Whisperer?

 

Jonah plays soft IMHO and more importantly has only been available about 50% of the time. Given 2 otherwise equally average players the one that doesn't go to IR every year should be the clear choice, but this is the same team that carried Eifert & Ross for years on IR so I have some doubts 

 

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6 minutes ago, T-Dub said:

 

I'm not so sure about that. We've watched them let guys "take turns" because the coaches couldn't make a decision on who should be playing. Maybe that was a product of Clappy Lewis or Ketchup Whisperer?

 

Jonah plays soft IMHO and more importantly has only been available about 50% of the time. Given 2 otherwise equally average players the one that doesn't go to IR every year should be the clear choice, but this is the same team that carried Eifert & Ross for years on IR so I have some doubts 

 

 

 

Ill give you two examples. Eli Apple was going to be benched in favor of CTB it just happened that Cheeto got hurt that same week.

 

When Hendrickson was getting gashed in the running game against I believe the Ravens, they put in Cam Sample as a bigger body who is better against the run.

 

Reports are that they didn't start giving Carman time at LT until mid-way through the season. Also hadn't we all written him off at this point? He couldnt even beat out Sharping as the back up RG. 

 

The Bengals need their backups to be able to play more than one position, and Carman has been pretty bad at the G position. Maybe he is only good at the one spot? (Assuming he does it for more than 2 games)

 

All that is to say let Williams and Carman battle it out in Camp, and I have faith that the coaches play the best player. They have a history of it.

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I don’t see the Bengals making a move for a new LT in 2023.  Not saying it’s a bad idea or that I’m 100 comfortable with the situation, but I’m not going to bitch about it because it’s not going to change.  Jonah’s contract option is guaranteed, which means he won’t be cut and we’re not paying another LT starter money.  He had surgery this month for his dislocated knee cap and is expected to be back for training camp.  Carman filled in during the playoff run and was surprisingly effective.  One of the two will be the LT in 2023.  Beyond that, who knows what happens.  I’m skeptical that Jonah gets a long term contract (injury history, inconsistent performance).  The immediate need is on the right side and the Bengals have to make a move this offseason.  Hopefully, they can add multiple players in FA and the draft because depth remains a major concern.  
 

 

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I think Taylor is good with Carman and Jonah fighting it out at LT so lets take that off the table..

 

RT is a whole different bag..

I've been a big advocate of drafting 

Darnel Wright but as I read other teams assessment of him he'll be long gone by 28..

 

Stealers, Commanders, Titans and a few others really like the big guy..

 

Interesting to see what RT will be on the board and if they pick what's left..

 

 

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28 minutes ago, Le Tigre said:

Been saying that for quite some time now. I guess the question begs: if he is suddenly going to be the second coming of Ronnie Stanley, now what do you do?  

 

If Carman beats out Williams you eat the 12 million that you pay Wiliams this year and you play the best player. Sure it sucks as far as money goes, but you are in a better position to not have pay Williams for mediocre play over the long term, and you can keep Carman for at least a year at a lower cap hit. 

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2 hours ago, Jamie_B said:

 

If Carman beats out Williams you eat the 12 million that you pay Wiliams this year and you play the best player. Sure it sucks as far as money goes, but you are in a better position to not have pay Williams for mediocre play over the long term, and you can keep Carman for at least a year at a lower cap hit. 

 

Think they're stuck paying the $12m regardless, that money is gone and shouldn't be a consideration. The only question that matters is who protects JB better. If that ends up being a 7th round pick or some journeyman FA so be it. 

 

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46 minutes ago, T-Dub said:

 

Think they're stuck paying the $12m regardless, that money is gone and shouldn't be a consideration. The only question that matters is who protects JB better. If that ends up being a 7th round pick or some journeyman FA so be it. 

 

 

 

I think we agree on that, and I also think the team will do that. 

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5 hours ago, Jamie_B said:

 

If Carman beats out Williams you eat the 12 million that you pay Wiliams this year and you play the best player. Sure it sucks as far as money goes, but you are in a better position to not have pay Williams for mediocre play over the long term, and you can keep Carman for at least a year at a lower cap hit. 

I’m not even saying that Jonah needs to be idled—regardless of what Carman does. 
 

We do know Carman’s natural—and only really—position is LT. Always has been. Jonah, on the other hand, had quite a bit of experience at RT at Alabama. Get his kneecaps fixed, and give him a run on the right side…it isn’t like he’s never been there. 
 

And speaking of square pegs in round holes, Adeniji has been forced into playing right side, when his natural position is LT. He’s played OK there when used. 
 

Can never figure out why they are always trying to make Swiss Army Knives out of players who should only be doing one thing. 

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