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OL Offseason 2023


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47 minutes ago, Inigo Montoya said:

Jonah was the best player on a bad OL in 2021.  It was also his only healthy season.  As a result, his 5th year option was picked up and guaranteed his 2023 salary.  Those are facts we can’t change.  His salary makes a trade more difficult and it makes zero sense to pay him just to go away.  
 

Obviously, his performance was poor last year and he suffered two dislocated knee caps which ultimately ended his season in the Wild Card round.  Rather than give him a pass, they replaced him at LT by spending big and are giving him a chance to compete at RT.  I don’t see anything about anointing him the starter or being hell bent to do so.  If anything, they’re purposefully not doing it by including Carman in the competition and keeping Collins around.  

 

No question they're kind of stuck with him now. Would love to know what Jax offered, or what the Bengals would take for him. Last I checked though he was listed everywhere as the starting RT so it's not just speculation.

 

At this point I can see the logic of letting it play out in camp and signing a late FA if things don't work out. The FA market isn't likely to get worse by then & maybe someone with some upside or experience shakes loose elsewhere.

 

I wish I shared the team's optimism, seems kinda crazy not having one healthy proven RT on the roster but again.. Oh well! I'm guessing there's more to the story than what they're saying & they don't have to actually play the guy in a game that counts for a few months yet. A lot can happen. At this point a lot needs to happen. Oh well!

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29 minutes ago, T-Dub said:

 

No question they're kind of stuck with him now. Would love to know what Jax offered, or what the Bengals would take for him. Last I checked though he was listed everywhere as the starting RT so it's not just speculation.

 

At this point I can see the logic of letting it play out in camp and signing a late FA if things don't work out. The FA market isn't likely to get worse by then & maybe someone with some upside or experience shakes loose elsewhere.

 

I wish I shared the team's optimism, seems kinda crazy not having one healthy proven RT on the roster but again.. Oh well! I'm guessing there's more to the story than what they're saying & they don't have to actually play the guy in a game that counts for a few months yet. A lot can happen. At this point a lot needs to happen. Oh well!

I guess as of right now Jonah looks like a very expensive first man off the bench for just about anywhere on the line at least temporarily.

I would love to see him get off the pity pot, put on his big boy pants and win the ORT spot and play it well

until be can go Free Agent next year.

I still go with my T-Dubesque analogy of right now the Bengals are like a Ferrari with a bald front right tire.

Will they make it through the season or will it blow out and wreck the whole thing?

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47 minutes ago, T-Dub said:

 

No question they're kind of stuck with him now. Would love to know what Jax offered, or what the Bengals would take for him. Last I checked though he was listed everywhere as the starting RT so it's not just speculation.

It is absolutely speculation since the head coach recently said that RT would be a competition between several players, one of which would be Jonah Williams.. The team's center and captain said the same thing as late as yesterday.

 

As for what the Bengals were offered for Jonah, guess we will never know but we can look at the trades around the rest of the league and reasonably guess it was pretty close to nothing. Example: Three-time Pro Bowl pass rusher Z'Darius Smith, who is set to make between 11-12 mil this season, was traded to the Browns.  The trade:  Along with Smith, the Browns received a 2025 sixth and seventh-round pick. The Vikings received 2024 and 2025 fifth-round picks.

 

 

 

 

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19 minutes ago, dex said:

It is absolutely speculation since the head coach recently said that RT would be a competition between several players, one of which would be Jonah Williams.. The team's center and captain said the same thing as late as yesterday.

 

As for what the Bengals were offered for Jonah, guess we will never know but we can look at the trades around the rest of the league and reasonably guess it was pretty close to nothing. Example: Three-time Pro Bowl pass rusher Z'Darius Smith, who is set to make between 11-12 mil this season, was traded to the Browns.  The trade:  Along with Smith, the Browns received a 2025 sixth and seventh-round pick. The Vikings received 2024 and 2025 fifth-round picks.

 

 

 

 

 

I suspect there was no serious consideration given to trading him. With his price tag and his injury history? Can't imagine they were offering much of anything.

 

A competition between several players though? The only halfway serious challenger is Carman & that's based on 2 games at a different position where he looked kind of OK after years in the doghouse. 

 

I wouldn't want to bet Joe Burrow's kneecap on either of these guys 

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The Bengals seemed to think they were set at RT before OBJ fell into their laps. He's a considerable upgrade at LT and only costs 4 mil more than Jonah. So the thing to do then was facilitate a trade of Williams for whatever they can get. When healthy, he's a middle of the pack LT. That's worth a midround pick to a team, especially if the Bengals let them examine him medically and talk contract extension with him. But the Bengals don't seem to have made any effort to trade our surplus LT and instead are trying to make him into a RT, a position where he's not very well suited and which the draft pick might have filled. While keeping 12.6 mil on the cap that could have been used for someone else's extension. It's poor resource allocation. 

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2 hours ago, BlackJesus said:

Just think ... Jonah and Mixon will make a combined 24 million this season ... 😵‍💫

 

Meanwhile, Burrow will make 9 and Chase will make 8 (combined 17). 

Pretty much all of the beat writers, the ones who spend plenty of time around the coaches and players, expect Mixon to play for less money than his current contract calls for. Here is Jay Morrison on Mixon after today's OTA/press conferences:

 

You can add Joe Mixon to the group of players participating despite having valid reasons for skipping the voluntary work. Mixon is facing the likelihood of a pay cut in addition to the ramifications of an aggravated menacing charge, but he’s been here in the building since day one and standing at the front of the stretching lines along with the rest of the team leaders. 

 

 

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7 minutes ago, dex said:

Pretty much all of the beat writers, the ones who spend plenty of time around the coaches and players, expect Mixon to play for less money than his current contract calls for. Here is Jay Morrison on Mixon after today's OTA/press conferences:

 

You can add Joe Mixon to the group of players participating despite having valid reasons for skipping the voluntary work. Mixon is facing the likelihood of a pay cut in addition to the ramifications of an aggravated menacing charge, but he’s been here in the building since day one and standing at the front of the stretching lines along with the rest of the team leaders. 

 

 

 

Where is all this pay cut talk coming from?

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14 hours ago, stryker57 said:

come on guys you act like  its your money, and when you admit its not, that the bengals will spend it if they cut the 2 players. 

 

Sure they'll spend it. But they should spend it on better players like Burrow, Higgins, and Wilson, not guys like Jonah, Mixon, and Collins. 

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10 hours ago, claptonrocks said:

Goid question..

 

I think they honir hia contract hoping he'll honor their commitment in him..

Both Paul Dehner and Jay Morrison have been saying since early April that Mixon will have to take a pay cut that reflects the current RB market or get released. Those guys have great sources within the organization. Mixon has been a constant fixture in Cincinnati for the OTAs. He clearly wants to stay. Mixon is normally very chatty with the media, but I noticed he said nothing yesterday. Part of it I'm sure he didn't want to be asked about the off-the-field stuff, the other part was I'm sure he didn't want to be asked about how the contract reduction talks were going.

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2 hours ago, sparky151 said:

 

Sure they'll spend it. But they should spend it on better players like Burrow, Higgins, and Wilson, not guys like Jonah, Mixon, and Collins. 

 

 

Even if they get Burrow, Higgens, and Wilson done today that money wont be structured to hit right away imho, it's will likely hit in future years when Johnah, Mixon, and Collins are all gone.

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6 hours ago, dex said:

Both Paul Dehner and Jay Morrison have been saying since early April that Mixon will have to take a pay cut that reflects the current RB market or get released. Those guys have great sources within the organization. Mixon has been a constant fixture in Cincinnati for the OTAs. He clearly wants to stay. Mixon is normally very chatty with the media, but I noticed he said nothing yesterday. Part of it I'm sure he didn't want to be asked about the off-the-field stuff, the other part was I'm sure he didn't want to be asked about how the contract reduction talks were going.

 

Him going all "rah-rah yay team" with the walls closing in doesn't really move the needle for me.  If he shows up in TC running like he didn't have cough syrup for breakfast that will be something I can get behind.  I know he's getting paid like a Top 5 RB but I'd be happy with Top 10 performance.  Little baffled by how a guy that can't or won't block even got to this level in this offense.  If the Bengals want to pay him that kind of money to watch someone else get the job done from the bench that's fine, too.

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7 hours ago, Jamie_B said:

 

 

Even if they get Burrow, Higgens, and Wilson done today that money wont be structured to hit right away imho, it's will likely hit in future years when Johnah, Mixon, and Collins are all gone.

Thats how it works for all concerned.

Re-sign and release.

 

And the train kept rollin all night long..😎

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18 minutes ago, claptonrocks said:

Thats how it works for all concerned.

Re-sign and release.

 

And the train kept rollin all night long..😎

 

 

That's why all the we got to cut or restructure Joe and trade Johnna talk doesn't really work. We don't have to do that at all really.

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2 hours ago, claptonrocks said:

Why would JB keep saying he wants Jonah here?

 

 

 

Because he's a pro and there's no way he's going to say anything negative publicly about a teammate. He doesn't have to endorse Karras or whoever because nobody asks. 

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On 5/16/2023 at 11:00 AM, sparky151 said:

 

Gentlemen, this is a great example of the "sunk cost" fallacy. 

 

I hope you'd agree we shouldn't still be starting Bobby Hart or Cedric Ogbuehi?

 

Your logic is flawed.  You are assuming there are cheaper, better players easily available. 

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Am I excited about Jonah Williams at RT?  Not really.  Would it be better to trade Williams and go with Collins and Carman?  Hell no!  Unless you know where the Bengals can get a solid RT why would you get rid of Williams?  He may be OK there.  He won't be on Burrow's blind side, so that's a plus.  The Bengals have three question marks at RT.  Hopefully one pans out.

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51 minutes ago, UncleEarl said:

 

Your logic is flawed.  You are assuming there are cheaper, better players easily available. 

 

Certainly there are cheaper, better players available. The draft was full of them. Even at this late date, Cam Fleming is still available. He's never made more than 4 mil in a season but started 15 games last year. PFF graded him well above Jonah or Collins. Wouldn't it be nice to have a RT who is healthy and has played the position at a high level? The cap savings are just a bonus. 

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