Bengals 2023 OTA portion of off-season stuff

[PatternMaster]

21 hours ago, membengal said:

That goes along with the notes/obs from La'el about his conditioning due to rehab'ing his own ACL injury. The bengals trainers are really apparently quite outstanding at this part of their job - Burrow talked extensively about how he remade his upper body and core strength during his own ACL rehab (and he was noticeably stronger the Super Bowl year). Not surprised to see Chido is taking advantage of the same concentrated training (guys on that kind of rehab get to the be in the bldg with the team trainers for months when everyone else cannot have that kind of contact. It's why I don't discount the words from Collins about how much better his back feels. That extra time putting in the rehab on the knee can benefit other parts of their body in terms of strength and conditioning as well. 

 

This is true, I know a trainer that worked with the Bengals, Rams, and now the Eagles. They have a quality team of trainers for sure, but it's really up to the player to put in the work. I think it's the culture they have where guys are responsible and want to improve. If you look at the caliber of the guys they have brought in, a ton of team captains, leaders, and high-character guys. Of all the guys that Zac has drafted I can't think of one that has gotten in trouble off the field, which is a far cry from what the Bengals have had in the past. 

 

A training staff that doesn't have to babysit grown men is definitely more effective than ones that do. It seems like Jackson Carman is finally taking ownership of his own situation and taking his physique seriously, a complete 180 from when he came into the league and it's showing. He knows he as a tough road to start this year and doesn't want to be a backup player for his career. 

[T-Dub]

10 hours ago, claptonrocks said:

Higgins is a resemblance of AJ Green.

Close to a clone..

Dont want to lose a player of that calibre in his prime years..

 

 

 

 

No they don't but can they afford two WR1 contracts? He has to know those offers will be coming. Can't blame him if he decides to take one. Asking him to give up millions of dollars to stay here and be a #2 is tough.

[Jamie_B]

 

[claptonrocks]

3 hours ago, T-Dub said:

 

No they don't but can they afford two WR1 contracts? He has to know those offers will be coming. Can't blame him if he decides to take one. Asking him to give up millions of dollars to stay here and be a #2 is tough.

Im not "sure" if its possible to re-sign Tee but they need him to win the SB..

 

Somehow the team will make need to. make happen..

I think they will..

 

 

 

 

[|BlackJesus|]

4 hours ago, T-Dub said:

can they afford two WR1 contracts? 

 

Of course. Basically each team can afford about 4 blue chip players total. And those can be at any position ... the Bengals will just take there's all on offense at QB, WR, WR, LT. Then they will draft heavily on defense to compensate.

[|BlackJesus|]

3 hours ago, Jamie_B said:

 

A great interview. He's articulate and speaks with a verbal clarity that is refreshing (no "ums" etc). You can tell the Princeton education rubbed off and that he has high mental processing potential. I am curious to see how he physically plays in the Preseason.

[claptonrocks]

1 minute ago, BlackJesus said:

 

A great interview. He's articulate and speaks with a verbal clarity that is refreshing. You can tell the Princeton education rubbed off. I am curious to see how he plays in the Preseason. 

We all are..

Maybe coal..maybe diamond.

Pulling for him..

 

 

[T-Dub]

20 minutes ago, BlackJesus said:

 

Of course. Basically each team can afford about 4 blue chip players total. And those can be at any position ... the Bengals will just take there's all on offense at QB, WR, WR, LT. Then they will draft heavily on defense to compensate.

 

So just draft replacements for Hendrickson, Reader, Awuzie, Michael Thomas, Hill, Logan Wilson, Davis-Gaither, Mike Hilton, Ossai,..  Plus Karras, Boyd..  Whoever ends up playing RT..  all FA in the next 2 years..  IDK about that.

 

33 minutes ago, claptonrocks said:

Im not "sure" if its possible to re-sign Tee but they need him to win the SB..

 

 

If that's true then Burrow isn't the QB I think he is.  

 

Hard truth is that a big part of the logic of making Burrow one of the highest paid players in the NFL is because he doesn't need two WR1's.  Again, I like Higgins but they'll be OK without him.  Our boy doesn't need the training wheels anymore.

 

[|BlackJesus|]

1 hour ago, T-Dub said:

So just draft replacements for Hendrickson, Reader, Awuzie, Michael Thomas, Hill, Logan Wilson, Davis-Gaither, Mike Hilton, Ossai,..  Plus Karras, Boyd.. 

 

The only guys on that list who are "blue chippers" would be Hendrickson, Reader, and Wilson. And they likely only resign Wilson from those 3 for financial reasons and youth.

 

But also in addition to your 4 blue chippers, each team can afford about 4-6 Middle tier guys ... the Bengals do a good job of finding them ... where they play like a blue chipper at times, but are paid like a middle tier guy -- someone like Hilton personifies this. 

[|BlackJesus|]

1 hour ago, T-Dub said:

he doesn't need two WR1's.

 

Burrow is the team's best player ... so you get a multiplying affect by having your other best players also play at positons that directly enhance his play.

 

If you have the best DE or CB in the league, that doesn't allow for a multiplier effect with Burrow's skills.

 

Whereas, having 2 WR1s is the "secret sauce" to the Bengals success and why they are a favorite to be in the Super Bowl every year with Burrow at the helm. It gives them a punchers chance in every game. 

[T-Dub]

2 minutes ago, BlackJesus said:

 

The only guys on that list who are "blue chippers" would be Hendrickson, Reader, and Wilson. And they likely only resign Wilson from those 3 for financial reasons and youth.

 

But also in addition to your 4 blue chippers, each team can afford about 4-6 Middle tier guys ... the Bengals do a good job of finding them ... where they play like a blue chipper at times, but are paid like a middle tier guy -- someone like Hilton personifies this. 

 

 

Wilson also isn't going to be looking at WR1 money elsewhere, so that helps.  There's some depth on the DL but that's still an awful lot of talent to replace with magic beans via the draft. 

 

Really depends on whether the JB, Chase & Higgins really do split the pie, so to speak.  Let's see what the numbers look like if it happens.

[sparky151]

Bengals will likely lose Boyd and Awuzie this offseason. Maybe Reader too. But they are prepared for the loss of the first two names listed. We have an expensive D-line with 4 starters averaging 10 mil per year or more. Murphy will replace Hendrickson. But nobody at the second and third levels of the defense is making big money. Pratt at 7 mil is the highest paid. The team can certainly afford to extend Burrow, Higgins, and Wilson this offseason. Reader too. Then Chase next year or the year after. We'll be looking for heirs to Karras and Cappa at some point next year or the year after too. That's why it makes sense to clear some cap deadweight this year such as Mixon and Williams and probably Collins if Carman looks decent. 

 

The bottom line is the team can certainly afford to pay Higgins and Chase. But it doesn't make sense to pay a RB so much and have so much money tied up in injured or injury prone RTs. 

[T-Dub]

1 hour ago, sparky151 said:

Bengals will likely lose Boyd and Awuzie this offseason. Maybe Reader too. But they are prepared for the loss of the first two names listed. We have an expensive D-line with 4 starters averaging 10 mil per year or more. Murphy will replace Hendrickson. But nobody at the second and third levels of the defense is making big money. Pratt at 7 mil is the highest paid. The team can certainly afford to extend Burrow, Higgins, and Wilson this offseason. Reader too. Then Chase next year or the year after. We'll be looking for heirs to Karras and Cappa at some point next year or the year after too. That's why it makes sense to clear some cap deadweight this year such as Mixon and Williams and probably Collins if Carman looks decent. 

 

The bottom line is the team can certainly afford to pay Higgins and Chase. But it doesn't make sense to pay a RB so much and have so much money tied up in injured or injury prone RTs. 

 

 

If I understand all this stuff correctly (big if)...  the money for Jonah is spent.  Cutting him now doesn't do anything for them because they exercised a contract option.  Maybe they can trade him during the season if he's not starting but otherwise that money is gone.

 

Collins has a very incentive-based contract, as I read it there's around a $2M discount or more if he doesn't start all year.  He's not expected to be ready for the season and they can't cut him before he's cleared so whatever's not incentives is gone, too.  Credit the Bengals FO having the foresight to structure his deal that way.  For my part I have doubts about him ever reporting as fit, he strikes me as a bullshit artist that will goldbrick it for as long as they let him.  Just my impression from outside, of course. They must have had a similar impression to some extent to do his contract that way. 

 

That leaves Mixon, who the talking heads all seem to think is going to accept a pay cut.  I'm not at all convinced, nor am I certain he will even be available. No need to rehash all that but outside of a suspension or worse they seem dead set on him being RB1.  Personally I'll be rooting for Brown to make him expendable but for a 5th round pick that seems to need some work for the pros that's probably a longshot.  There's also the question of just how expendable he'd have to be for the team to cut him, they've circled the wagons around him like he's the only one that knows where the Gatorade mix is stored so between waving guns in traffic and running the ball like he's trying not to get dirt on his jersey I'm not sure what it'd take for them to change course now.

 

All that aside, last I saw the team was an estimated $80 million under the cap?    So from a budget standpoint they don't need to cut anyone, they need to sign some other mf's that can play.  I'm sure they love fans saying there are no free agents anywhere that can help them at all ever, but I think that's ridiculous.

[sparky151]

Jonah's 5th year rookie contract option is for 12.604 mil but it's entirely salary. So it will be paid over the course of the 18 weeks of the season. He hasn't earned any of it yet and if traded tomorrow would have a cap hit for the Bengals in 2023 of $0 and the 12.604 mil would be added as available cap space. 

 

Collins doesn't have any guarantees remaining in his contract. He could be cut today if the team wanted. Sometimes players have injury guarantees which require them to pass a physical for the team to avoid the obligation but that's not the case with Lael. If he were cut after June 1, he would count on the team's cap as 1.667 mil in dead money this year and next. If cut before then, the whole amount could be taken in 2023 if the team desired or split over the 2 years. Cutting Collins after June 1 would give the team an additional 7.717 mil in cap space.

 

Cutting Mixon would give the team 2.75 mil in dead money while creating 10.041 mil in new cap space.

 

With the rookies now signed, the team is currently 14.919 mil under the cap (using the offseason rule of 51). The team correctly accounts for the fact that once week 1 rolls around, everyone on the roster counts plus some dead money from former players. For 2024, the team is currently about 60 mil under the cap but would be about 82 mil under if Mixon and Collins were released this year. 

 

Anyway, the bottom line is that trading Jonah gets the Bengals off the hook for his 12.6 mil deal but cutting him doesn't, except to the extent another team pays him. Cutting Collins or Mixon gives the team immediate cap relief. 

[T-Dub]

4 hours ago, sparky151 said:

Jonah's 5th year rookie contract option is for 12.604 mil but it's entirely salary. So it will be paid over the course of the 18 weeks of the season. He hasn't earned any of it yet and if traded tomorrow would have a cap hit for the Bengals in 2023 of $0 and the 12.604 mil would be added as available cap space. 

 

Collins doesn't have any guarantees remaining in his contract. He could be cut today if the team wanted. Sometimes players have injury guarantees which require them to pass a physical for the team to avoid the obligation but that's not the case with Lael. If he were cut after June 1, he would count on the team's cap as 1.667 mil in dead money this year and next. If cut before then, the whole amount could be taken in 2023 if the team desired or split over the 2 years. Cutting Collins after June 1 would give the team an additional 7.717 mil in cap space.

 

Cutting Mixon would give the team 2.75 mil in dead money while creating 10.041 mil in new cap space.

 

With the rookies now signed, the team is currently 14.919 mil under the cap (using the offseason rule of 51). The team correctly accounts for the fact that once week 1 rolls around, everyone on the roster counts plus some dead money from former players. For 2024, the team is currently about 60 mil under the cap but would be about 82 mil under if Mixon and Collins were released this year. 

 

Anyway, the bottom line is that trading Jonah gets the Bengals off the hook for his 12.6 mil deal but cutting him doesn't, except to the extent another team pays him. Cutting Collins or Mixon gives the team immediate cap relief. 

 

I would not be at all sad to see any of those 3 gone. Unfortunately they've painted themselves into a corner at RB and RT. Somebody has to play those positions and they're the only guys on the roster that have shown they can do it.  They may not be good at it, but they are capable.

 

I don't like it either but it beats handing the job to Carman and Williams or Brown on blind faith.

[Jamie_B]

4 hours ago, sparky151 said:

Jonah's 5th year rookie contract option is for 12.604 mil but it's entirely salary. So it will be paid over the course of the 18 weeks of the season. He hasn't earned any of it yet and if traded tomorrow would have a cap hit for the Bengals in 2023 of $0 and the 12.604 mil would be added as available cap space. 

 

Collins doesn't have any guarantees remaining in his contract. He could be cut today if the team wanted. Sometimes players have injury guarantees which require them to pass a physical for the team to avoid the obligation but that's not the case with Lael. If he were cut after June 1, he would count on the team's cap as 1.667 mil in dead money this year and next. If cut before then, the whole amount could be taken in 2023 if the team desired or split over the 2 years. Cutting Collins after June 1 would give the team an additional 7.717 mil in cap space.

 

Cutting Mixon would give the team 2.75 mil in dead money while creating 10.041 mil in new cap space.

 

With the rookies now signed, the team is currently 14.919 mil under the cap (using the offseason rule of 51). The team correctly accounts for the fact that once week 1 rolls around, everyone on the roster counts plus some dead money from former players. For 2024, the team is currently about 60 mil under the cap but would be about 82 mil under if Mixon and Collins were released this year. 

 

Anyway, the bottom line is that trading Jonah gets the Bengals off the hook for his 12.6 mil deal but cutting him doesn't, except to the extent another team pays him. Cutting Collins or Mixon gives the team immediate cap relief. 

 

 

The 5th year option is guaranteed money. If they trade him tomorrow, then the Bengals will be off the hook for the 12 mil because that's the only way they trade him. If another team wanted him they are going to have to pay him the full salary, the Bengals will not split his salary with another team for him to not be on our roster. 

 

Thus, it's pretty likely he is going to be here. 

 

They are also not going to cut Mixon to give the reigns to a 4th round rookie. Especially not when this is a Superbowl caliber roster.

 

I have no idea why we keep talking about this at this point

[claptonrocks]

2 hours ago, Jamie_B said:

 

 

The 5th year option is guaranteed money. If they trade him tomorrow, then the Bengals will be off the hook for the 12 mil because that's the only way they trade him. If another team wanted him they are going to have to pay him the full salary, the Bengals will not split his salary with another team for him to not be on our roster. 

 

Thus, it's pretty likely he is going to be here. 

 

They are also not going to cut Mixon to give the reigns to a 4th round rookie. Especially not when this is a Superbowl caliber roster.

 

I have no idea why we keep talking about this at this point

Agree..

Mixon will be the starter this season

Brown and Williams will backup..

Im good with that this year.

 

[T-Dub]

8 minutes ago, claptonrocks said:

Agree..

Mixon will be the starter this season

Brown and Williams will backup..

 

 

I think he'll be the starter when camp opens.  What happens next is up to him but I don't think anything is guaranteed.  Same goes for anyone on the roster.

[membengal]

 

[Jamie_B]

This is more league wide than just the Bengals, but I didn't know where to put it.

 

 

[Griever]

 

[Griever]

 

[Griever]

 

[Griever]

 

[Griever]