Grading the Bengals 2023 Draft Class?

[T-Dub]

45 minutes ago, Cricket said:

…unless they have been threatened by disgruntled people.  

 

Eh I don't think that's an excuse, public figures get this shit all the time from people online.  Most of them seem to handle it without needing to run outside and get stupid with an AK like it's Fallujah.

 

If it was indeed BIL doing the shooting and he's got a felony record it's more complicated.  If they say BIL owned the gun the next question is where he got it, plus the F4 possession charge and whatever else they might throw at him - endangerment, parole violations, who knows.  If it's instead registered to someone else or another person claims ownership BIL could still catch a charge since he clearly had access to it, plus the owner is probably in some shit of their own.

 

Oddly, who had the gun & how may end up being a bigger deal than shooting some kid with it like a paranoid idiot.

 

Even if Mixon had nothing to do with it, coming right after a brandishing charge in a road rage incident it paints a bad picture.

 

It would be real convenient if one of the backups outplays him and Brown makes him look like a statue out there (but not like the ones in Mixon's back yard)

 

 

 

 

 

 

[claptonrocks]

9 hours ago, Catfish Bob said:

Great draft imo.  Very surprised to see two WR drafted.  I guess we're keeping Mixon?  No Elliott?     Can we pick up a couple of UDFA OT's and try an experiment where we coach them up as blocking backs on passing plays? To help keep Burrow from getting killed back there. 

Oline  seems solid regardless of the questions about RT and that's about what JB needs and expects to perform his magic..

 

Mixon knows his career is on the line with all the negative adversities he's got to deal with..

 

II see him focused to be his ultimate best this year.

 

He's still a top 12 runner out to prove his worth.

 

Run Joe run.. . wr need you..

 

[T-Dub]

2 hours ago, claptonrocks said:

Oline  seems solid regardless of the questions about RT and that's about what JB needs and expects to perform his magic..

 

 

The starting OL I think could be decent even with a shitty RT.  What bothers me is that the right side ended the season hurt, other than Adeniji.  If Collins & Williams both get healthy there's some depth at OT, maybe, and that's about it.  Not a single draft pick on the OL?  OBJ is a great get but who backs him up if Carman has to start at RT, assuming he can play the position? Can Jonah?  I hope there are some late moves shuffling the back half of the roster because as it stands a lot has to go our way.

 

 

[Jamie_B]

16 hours ago, UncleEarl said:

 

I have to admit this looks really bad on Mixon.  I thought he wasn't there.  If he was there he holds some responsibility, IMO, and likely in the league's opinion as well.  Whether he is charged or not really doesn't matter. 

 

 

As I recall the more recent agreement between the NFLPA and the league took some of the power Goodall had out of his hands and created a process for it. I don't think he has God powers like he did when Thruman got suspended. 

[Jamie_B]

Inside Bengals’ draft: How Cincinnati scouts found their ideal talent-character mix

CINCINNATI — As the Bengals’ selection with the 28th pick drew nearer last Thursday night, the frequency of phone calls in the draft room inside Paycor Stadium picked up.

Interest surged from teams at the top of the second round to move up and three teams switched four spots in front of Cincinnati.

 

“We were fielding a ton of trade calls,” Bengals director of college scouting Mike Potts said. “We had upwards of five offers to move back.”

Trade offers for picks at this point aren’t rare. Especially with quarterback Will Levis dropping and multiple top edge rushers sliding down the board. None more notable to the Bengals than Myles Murphy, of Clemson, who lived on the upper half of their top-28 draft board.

 

The calls were welcome. Options for a team always looking to add extra picks, specifically over three days with only their original seven picks and a voluminous mid-round bank of players at target positions.

“I was looking for an opportunity to add a pick or two,” director of player personnel Duke Tobin said.

 

Extra picks come coated in gold for an organization that moved back in the second round four of five years at one point for more draft capital.

The first inflection point of the weekend arrived when the Jaguars took offensive tackle Anton Harrison at 27 and Cincinnati went on the clock. The Bengals made their first statement.

Murphy’s presence meant the offers were stoutly rejected.

 

“Yeah, never really crossed our minds when he fell down to us,” Tobin said.

 

The conviction spoke volumes. It also launched three days of reemphasizing an organizational mission statement.

Find the talent, then bet on players most likely to extract it. Lean into chemistry. Double down on filling the room with the right people.

ROUND	OVERALL	PLAYER	POSITION	SCHOOL
1	28	Myles Murphy	Edge	Clemson
2	60	DJ Turner	CB	Michigan
3	95	Jordan Battle	S	Alabama
4	131	Charlie Jones	WR	Purdue
5	163	Chase Brown	RB	Illinois
6	206	Andre Iosivas	WR	Princeton
6	217	Brad Robbins	P	Michigan
7	246	DJ Ivey	CB	Miami

 

 

Just because a winning culture now exists doesn’t mean the time has arrived to sprinkle in character risks.

 

“Why would we do that?” Potts said. “That formula we have right now has been successful. You try to veer off the path and get too cute is where you end up screwing up. As long as I’ve got influence in it, we are not going to stray away from what has been successful. Trusting our evaluations, trusting our board and trusting our sources on the character of guys.”

 

This trust delivered a draft defined by details that symbolized what the Bengals want to be about.

About the whiteboard in Charlie Jones’ living room.

About cutting off a tape breakdown with Jordan Battle after three plays.

About being approached in the hallways about Chase Brown.

About serendipitous walks across downtown Indianapolis with DJ Turner.

About a conversation with Mike Brown during Andre Iosivas’ visit.

These are the details uncovered by scouts with boots on the ground that solidified the Bengals weren’t just majoring in talent acquisition, but acing human resources. Details capable of injecting enough spice into a bubbling culture to propel the Bengals over the hump from contender to champion.

Details that often sucked debate out of the draft room.

“It happened that the best players were also good people,” Tobin said. “That makes the decisions easier.”

 

Personality verification matched a 6-5, 270-pound body type out of Bengals edge defender central casting and a relentless motor which is a signature trait of every member of Cincinnati’s current defensive line.

“It’s eye-popping when you see a guy his size running a play down, down the field,” Potts said, eliciting visions of 330-pound DJ Reader chasing Chiefs running back Jerick McKinnon 18 yards downfield on a screen last December.

Tasty mid-round trade bait was close, but the match with Murphy was too strong.

 

“Unless we were blown away by an offer, we were going to stick with a high-caliber guy like that,” Potts said. “If we felt like we weren’t dropping down a level of player, we probably would have moved back and taken the best possible offer we had there.”

---

The message came in only minutes after the Bengals selected Michigan cornerback DJ Turner in the second round at the 60th pick.

It was almost impossible to believe.

“I got a text from his agent, it was a picture of Myles and DJ when they were kids at a birthday party,” Radicevic said. “They were both friends at this party, standing next to each other. Little did they know they would be drafted in round one and two to the Bengals. It’s crazy how life works sometimes.”

---

The Bengals utilize their top-30 visits with intent. Tight end Dalton Kincaid, edge Nolan Smith, cornerback Emmanuel Forbes and Murphy all were visitors to Paycor Stadium leading up to the draft. Many visits connect with missing medicals from non-combine participants or players with background issues the team wants to investigate. There are also players who come to town because they could end up at the center circle of conversations for a first-round pick. In this case, Kincaid, Murphy and Smith all went off within five picks of each other.

With Murphy, only 21, a notable trait — beyond those comprising his near-perfect 9.71 Relative Athletic Score — stood out.

“He was smart,” director of pro scouting Steven Radicevic said. “Really, really smart.”

 

To see it firsthand backed up endorsements already acquired. When Potts was a college free-agent quarterback for the Steelers once upon a time, he was there with Nick Eason. Eason later became the Bengals’ defensive line coach for two years before moving to the same position at Clemson, coaching Murphy the last two years. The type of relationship where a strong stamp of approval carries weight.

 

 

Personality verification matched a 6-5, 270-pound body type out of Bengals edge defender central casting and a relentless motor which is a signature trait of every member of Cincinnati’s current defensive line.

“It’s eye-popping when you see a guy his size running a play down, down the field,” Potts said, eliciting visions of 330-pound DJ Reader chasing Chiefs running back Jerick McKinnon 18 yards downfield on a screen last December.

Tasty mid-round trade bait was close, but the match with Murphy was too strong.

“Unless we were blown away by an offer, we were going to stick with a high-caliber guy like that,” Potts said. “If we felt like we weren’t dropping down a level of player, we probably would have moved back and taken the best possible offer we had there.”

---

The message came in only minutes after the Bengals selected Michigan cornerback DJ Turner in the second round at the 60th pick.

It was almost impossible to believe.

“I got a text from his agent, it was a picture of Myles and DJ when they were kids at a birthday party,” Radicevic said. “They were both friends at this party, standing next to each other. Little did they know they would be drafted in round one and two to the Bengals. It’s crazy how life works sometimes.”

 

The two grew up friends and eventually football stars outside of Atlanta and now that friendship circles back in Cincinnati. Nobody realized until after the fact. Although, those weren’t the two friends the Bengals thought they were reuniting with the pick.

Dax Hill was Turner’s Michigan defensive backfield teammate. Area scout Andrew Johnson thought both would be an option last year when Turner was first draft-eligible. He knew Turner was considering coming out and ready if he did. When Turner opted to return, Johnson took notice of the difference during two school visits and three games in the fall.

 

“He played a lot more confident this year than he did in 2021,” Johnson said of Turner, who ran a combine-best 4.26 40, but did a better job of utilizing it in his final season. “He’s going to be the fastest, quickest athlete on the field just about every game. He’s right up there with the Tyreek Hills of the world when it comes to speed and explosiveness.”

Potts took note of the edge Turner displayed during their interview at the combine and his willingness to throw his body around in games, despite being just 178 pounds.

On top of an endorsement from Steve Clinkscale, Michigan co-defensive coordinator, a friend dating back to Johnson’s time roaming the University of Kentucky, he received further validation of Turner’s Bengals personality fit by happenstance. Turner’s combine training recovery suite was at the Bengals’ hotel and leaving Lucas Oil Stadium for the 20-minute walk ended up another chance to see the real person.

“I bumped into DJ and did that walk together two or three times,” Johnson said. “That’s an important part of scouting is just to keep getting exposures to these guys. The more you can be around them when maybe they don’t have their guard up. At no point did I have any hesitation about his personality. He’s very professional, very smart. He was raised very well. He’s confident. He’s really, really bright.”

---

Potts debated crossing third-round pick Jordan Battle off their combine interview list. Working the Southeastern Conference for the Bengals for years, he’d heard every endorsement imaginable about this four-year starter for the Crimson Tide.

“We were like, ‘Are we wasting an interview with this guy?'” he said. “We know he has phenomenal character.”

He’s held in elite regard in Tuscaloosa on the level of No. 3 pick Will Anderson and former first-round pick Minkah Fitzpatrick in terms of football IQ, leadership and the complete intangible package.

 

Everyone turned out happy they didn’t cancel.

“One of the best interviews I’ve ever been a part of,” Radicevic said.

 

The headline moment was Potts starting with about 10 game clips designed to talk through situations and football knowledge.

“We had to cut the tape portion of the interview off after about three plays,” Potts said. “It was unbelievable the way he was talking through every minor detail of all 22 people that were on the field. It was like he had a cheat sheet or answer key to the plays that were going to be shown to him. We ended up just having casual conversation with him. I didn’t think it was possible to elevate him in our eyes in terms of the person we were getting, but he did that in that interview.”

Plotting personality with productivity and four years starting for Nick Saban, Battle became the top safety target for the Bengals, a second-round-level player and welcomed addition to a crowded position restocking after the losses of Jessie Bates and Vonn Bell.

 

“I don’t want to sell him as just a great person,” Potts said. “We wouldn’t take a guy just because he has great character. We had high grades on the guy as a player. He’s a starting-caliber safety in this league.”

---

Christian Sarkisian might have been the first NFL scout to track the progress of Charlie Jones. The Purdue receiver and Bengals’ fourth-round pick grew up about 20 minutes away from the hometown of the Bengals’ area scout and a local star he consistently kept tabs on.

 

When Jones transferred from the University of Buffalo to Iowa just to be a walk-on, it caught Sarkisian’s eye. Jones sat out a year, eventually earned a scholarship and worked his way up to 2021 Big 10 return specialist of the year. But the plodding Hawkeyes offense wasn’t doing anything for his receiver profile. He transferred to Purdue to link up with high school friend and Boilermakers quarterback Aidan O’Connell.

“The first thing he does when he gets there, he buys a big whiteboard for he and Aidan to put in the middle of their place,” Sarkisian said. “In their free time, they were having their own position meetings. That really showed up in the kid’s route running, his reliability, his consistency. You never see that kid be out of place coming out of a break.”

 

Potts and Sarkisian were both at Purdue’s season opener against Penn State when Jones went off for 153 yards on 12 receptions with a touchdown. Most notably, many of those targets came against Joey Porter Jr., the No. 32 pick to the Pittsburgh Steelers.

 

He ended up leading the FBS in receptions.

“He bet on himself twice,” Sarkisian said. “It’s still paying off for him.”

This drew Sarkisian to be joined by special teams coordinator Darrin Simmons and receivers coach Troy Walters in West Lafayette for pro day. A cold, blustery day on the Purdue campus pushed the receiver workout indoors. With the Bengals eyeing Jones as an answer in the return game in the AFC North, Simmons wasn’t about to settle for pristine conditions.

“Darrin brought the 40-50 scouts who were freezing cold outside and Charlie Jones, who was freezing cold, outside to see if he could return punts in the cold and wind,” Sarkisian said. “It was great.”

The 30 minutes of torturing the traveling scout battalion and testing Jones put an exclamation point on him as an answer the team has searched for as a backup receiver for two years.

“He’s quick in and out of cuts and he’s got excellent hands,” Tobin said. “He’s got vertical speed and an awareness for the game. It was good to get a couple receivers in the middle later rounds that could come on for us. We hadn’t done that in a while.”

---

When Sarkisian and Radicevic walked the hallways at Illinois during campus visits or games, they wouldn’t need to probe for evaluations on running back Chase Brown or his twin brother, Sydney, a star safety.

Those associated with the program couldn’t wait to inform them.

“The way they speak about him and his brother is unlike any other,” said Radicivec, who was a crosschecker behind Sarkisian at the school.

“When you hear the way people talk about him who are around him on a daily basis, it fires you up,” Sarkisian said. “Not only is he a great alpha, leader, hard worker, all that, he really, really cares about his teammates.”

Brown’s backstory might be the most remarkable of any prospects in the draft, having moved from Ontario, Canada, to Florida and lived with a host family amid a tumultuous childhood in a family ravaged by addiction and uncertainty.

 

“The early life adversity this kid has gone through has made him extremely family-oriented and loyal and very mature,” Sarkisian said. “That’s what you are getting. An all-around great human who works his tail off and runs aggressively and violently.”

His style meshed with Bret Bielema at Illinois to become the heartbeat of the program that kept feeding him the ball to the tune of 25 touches per game over the past two seasons.

The knocks on him came from how much the Illini featured Brown. Was the 23-year-old being used too much? The Bengals came away unconcerned with that argument because of clean medical testing and an athletic profile as impressive as any back in the class, including the fastest top speed by any back at the Senior Bowl and only behind Bijan Robinson in RAS (9.81).

“The lower-body strength, contact balance, athleticism tested off the charts and you can see it on the tape,” Radicevic said, admitting they were targeting him earlier than the fifth round.

A realistic thought entered the equation that when the Bengals took Jones, they were waving goodbye to Brown.

“We were holding our breath in a lot of rounds,” Potts said.

This would be one. Not wanting to give up any more selections and taking a calculated risk, they survived the wait.

“We were pleased when he was there looking at us,” Tobin said. “For me, it was an easy pick at that point.”

---

When Johnson checked in on 6 a.m. practice on Sept. 15 at Princeton University, he set out to see more of the two-sport athletic wonder, Iosivas, who set the FBS record for 60 meters in the heptathlon before leading the Ivy League in receiving.

Further digging found a detail that morphed him from a longshot to a project with a real path to the Bengals.

“It was impressive how he was able to juggle football and track,” Johnson said. “During spring ball he would be doing track during the day, so he wouldn’t be at football — he’s at track practice. But he would go to all the meetings and do the workouts with the strength coach on his own time. Then he would stay up in the summer working out with the football team.”

The pieces were coming together. Competitiveness and work ethic to attack both sports and oodles of intelligence to refine his receiver skills once he’s doing the sport full time for the first time.

It put a circle on his name when the staff went to the Senior Bowl and Iosivas more than held his own in one-on-ones against top competition.

“That really sparked our interest,” Tobin said.

 

Then an important truth came up later in the evening.

“The most interesting thing is when you talk to most of the DBs at the Senior Bowl, asking them who the best receiver you faced down there, they were all saying he was,” Radicevic said. “He had some good reps against Tyrique Stephenson, a corner from Miami who we thought very highly of.”

The Bengals opted to bring him in for a visit — the only team to do so — partially for more exposure to everyone in the organization as his name kept coming up. Notably, a certain prominent Dartmouth product.

“It was great to get him in front of ownership, especially Mike Brown, the Ivy League connection there,” Radicevic said. “I know they had a long conversation.”

---

These vignettes of a draft season, the chats in the hallway, the effort during a hot summer practice, the background from teammates, and proof of dedication to the game, all add up.

In this case, they added up to a draft where talent and character converged. Last year, too often a desired player — or group of them — was plucked off before them.

Not this year.

“There was never a time when one of the guys we wanted to select went one or two spots ahead of us,” Radicevic said. “We pretty much stuck to the board and we got the players we liked in each round.”

A board built on details led to finding people as much as players. A strategy with proof of concept around these parts. There would be no shifting from it now, the roster primed for a Super Bowl run as any time in franchise history.

“Sure, there’s guys you talk about you might be concerned about for this reason or that reason, and I never swear those guys off, but this draft was a little easier from that standpoint,” Tobin said. “The guys we wanted from a physical standpoint were also great kids.”

 

[dex]

One reason why I feel so good about this year's draft class compared to last year's. Duke Tobin admitted last year he got frustrated when their targeted players for each round got picked over right before they were ready to select. One reason why he felt the need to trade up twice to get a good player. Wasn't necessary this year as the team had better luck.

 

 

In this case, they added up to a draft where talent and character converged. Last year, too often a desired player — or group of them — was plucked off before them.

Not this year.

“There was never a time when one of the guys we wanted to select went one or two spots ahead of us,” Radicevic said. “We pretty much stuck to the board and we got the players we liked in each round.”

[I_C_Deadpeople]

1 hour ago, dex said:

One reason why I feel so good about this year's draft class compared to last year's. Duke Tobin admitted last year he got frustrated when their targeted players for each round got picked over right before they were ready to select. One reason why he felt the need to trade up twice to get a good player. Wasn't necessary this year as the team had better luck.

 

 

In this case, they added up to a draft where talent and character converged. Last year, too often a desired player — or group of them — was plucked off before them.

Not this year.

“There was never a time when one of the guys we wanted to select went one or two spots ahead of us,” Radicevic said. “We pretty much stuck to the board and we got the players we liked in each round.”

Great article, just read it in the Althletic and was about to post it.

 

I am sure there is a lot of luck in every draft or perhaps certian drfats as Duke noted. Teams must have some drafts where they walk away thinking they just missed on several targeted prospects. Picking prospects is a crapshoot and then you combine the fcat that 31 other teams are doing the same thinking and maneuvering. 

 

 

[sparky151]

11 hours ago, T-Dub said:

 

The starting OL I think could be decent even with a shitty RT.  What bothers me is that the right side ended the season hurt, other than Adeniji.  If Collins & Williams both get healthy there's some depth at OT, maybe, and that's about it.  Not a single draft pick on the OL?  OBJ is a great get but who backs him up if Carman has to start at RT, assuming he can play the position? Can Jonah?  I hope there are some late moves shuffling the back half of the roster because as it stands a lot has to go our way.

 

 

 

We're in better shape at tackle than on the interior. If Jonah or Collins is healthy we'd have OBJ backed up by Carman and the healthier of Williams/Collins backed up by the other or Ford. But if Volson, Karras, or Cappa goes down, then it's Scharping or Hill or Brown or Adeniji playing. None of those gentlemen inspire confidence. 

[T-Dub]

6 minutes ago, sparky151 said:

 

We're in better shape at tackle than on the interior. If Jonah or Collins is healthy we'd have OBJ backed up by Carman and the healthier of Williams/Collins backed up by the other or Ford. But if Volson, Karras, or Cappa goes down, then it's Scharping or Hill or Brown or Adeniji playing. None of those gentlemen inspire confidence. 

 

I wouldn't bet on any of the RT candidates myself.  Collins is the only one that we know is capable but I'm still not convinced he didn't come here to goldbrick it for as long as we let him.  Jonah and Carman are complete unknowns at the position.

[gupps]

 

[PatternMaster]

[Griever]

34 minutes ago, PatternMaster said:

Cmonnnn that's crazy

[PatternMaster]

23 minutes ago, Griever said:

Cmonnnn that's crazy

 

Yeah, that is crazy...what are the odds. Even twins like Syndey and Chase Brown didn't get drafted by the same team, but these guys went to the same team in back to back rounds...pretty cool. 

[esjbh2]

The back stories about these NFL draft picks are just amazing (not just the Bengals).  Love it.

[|High School Harry|]

17 hours ago, PatternMaster said:

 

Yeah, that is crazy...what are the odds. Even twins like Syndey and Chase Brown didn't get drafted by the same team, but these guys went to the same team in back to back rounds...pretty cool. 

Soon to be a Netflix mini series.  The Brown twins will have a movie on Hallmark channel.

Joe Sixgun will have a segment on "Cops"... bad boys, bad boys, whacha gonna do when dey come fo you...

[|BlackJesus|]

A look back at all the picks (from the Bengals)

 

 

 

[T-Dub]

On 5/6/2023 at 4:48 AM, High School Harry said:

 

Joe Sixgun will have a segment on "Cops"... bad boys, bad boys, whacha gonna do when dey come fo you...

 

Refer them to his lawyer and have his publicist issue a statement, which will probably cost him more than the combined salaries of the entire CPD.

[|BlackJesus|]

[|BlackJesus|]

Prisco's Grade ...

 

 

[sparky151]

For what it's worth, Dane Brugler, The Athletic's draft guru ranked the Bengals draft class 19th overall. Pittsburgh had a top class, Cleveland was further down, then the Bengals, with Baltimore in early 20s. 

[esjbh2]

1 hour ago, sparky151 said:

For what it's worth, Dane Brugler, The Athletic's draft guru ranked the Bengals draft class 19th overall. Pittsburgh had a top class, Cleveland was further down, then the Bengals, with Baltimore in early 20s. 

Interesting...I've seen many draft grades and most have the Bengals either Top 5 or Top 10 at least.  19th sounds like either a mistake or an axe to grind.  Does he just hate the Bengals in general or is he butthurt that we didn't pick who and/or what position he had predicted?  Sadly the article is behind a pay wall.

 

[membengal]

He does it based on picks against his own board. I like Dane, he isn't saying they had a bad draft, more looking at value of guys picked against his own rankings. 

[T-Dub]

Takes a good 3 years to really separate the busts from the beasts.  The only immediate mistake is taking a guy a round early & while I don't get the impression that happened, no one really knows what those other late round team's boards looked like anyway.

 

No reaching, solid measurables, no obvious health or character red flags, a number of team captains & all seemingly highly motivated guys..  That's about all you can realistically ask for in a draft. We won't know more than that until they hit the field.

[sparky151]

1 hour ago, membengal said:

He does it based on picks against his own board. I like Dane, he isn't saying they had a bad draft, more looking at value of guys picked against his own rankings. 

 

He's ranking teams based simply on how much talent they added, not how the players match up with the team's needs or fit a particular scheme.  

[dex]

3 hours ago, sparky151 said:

For what it's worth, Dane Brugler, The Athletic's draft guru ranked the Bengals draft class 19th overall. Pittsburgh had a top class, Cleveland was further down, then the Bengals, with Baltimore in early 20s. 

Brugler watches a ton of tape, true. But he doesn't have anywhere close to the kind of access to medical records that NFL teams do. Nor can he do the kind of deep background checks that can often uncover troubling behavior. Take a look at Brugler's biggest draft days fallers from his own big board that's based almost exclusively on game tape and testing. Jalen Carter/Nolan Smith/Darnell Washington/Kelee Ringo...those 4 guys all have something in common besides a couple of nattys each.