Final 53

[PatternMaster]

18 hours ago, dex said:

At worst, it feels like Shedrick Jackson will be WR1 on the practice squad. Then the first guy they elevate when someone inevitably gets injured. Yesterday Burrow mentioned these 3 receivers making a big jump during the offseason program: "Andrei...Trenton...Shed." Troy Walters has also made particular mention of Jackson making a jump forward since last season. He could be an UDFA that makes a name for himself as his career goes on.

 

I can see Shed making it, he's primed to have a big camp. He's a talented player who needs an opportunity to show what he can do, he should be plenty of reps during camp with Higgins and Chase looking to protect themselves while they sort out their contract situations. 

[dex]

If you want to know what offensive linemen will be active on gameday, take a close look at the field goal protection unit Darrin Simmons had in place this week:

DSample/Mims/OBrown/Adomitis/THill/Ford/TBrown. From last season's unit we have Hill replacing Scharping, Mims replacing Volson, TBrown replacing JWilliams. Sample, OBrown and Ford were all part of last season's unit. So it looks like the 3 projected o-linemen projected to be gameday actives are Mims/Ford/THill.

 

Jackson Carman was only active for 2 games last season. So unless there are significant oline injuries in the preseason, think Jackson Carman will get cut before opening day and his 4th year salary as a 2nd round pick gets fully guaranteed.

 

In 2024, Carman will earn a base salary of $1,675,902, while carrying a cap hit of $2,370,438 and a dead cap value of $694,536.

[|BlackJesus|]

^ Not sure Mike will be cool with giving Carman 2 million to sit at home. They could at least have him wash Mim's jockstrap or fold the shower towels. #UselessBust

[sparky151]

26 minutes ago, dex said:

If you want to know what offensive linemen will be active on gameday, take a close look at the field goal protection unit Darrin Simmons had in place this week:

DSample/Mims/OBrown/Adomitis/THill/Ford/TBrown. From last season's unit we have Hill replacing Scharping, Mims replacing Volson, TBrown replacing JWilliams. Sample, OBrown and Ford were all part of last season's unit. So it looks like the 3 projected o-linemen projected to be gameday actives are Mims/Ford/THill.

 

Jackson Carman was only active for 2 games last season. So unless there are significant oline injuries in the preseason, think Jackson Carman will get cut before opening day and his 4th year salary as a 2nd round pick gets fully guaranteed.

 

In 2024, Carman will earn a base salary of $1,675,902, while carrying a cap hit of $2,370,438 and a dead cap value of $694,536.

 

Carman's salary isn't guaranteed. Only first round picks get fully guaranteed rookie deals. So if the team cuts him, it would save the1.676 mil.

[dex]

6 minutes ago, sparky151 said:

 

Carman's salary isn't guaranteed. Only first round picks get fully guaranteed rookie deals. So if the team cuts him, it would save the1.676 mil.

Yes, as long as he is waived before the opening game.

 

No point in paying that salary is he isn't going to be one of the three OL gameday reserve actives. 

[T-Dub]

Even if his salary was guaranteed, so what, he's still dead weight.

 

Like if I went to buy a watermelon and got home and it was rotten & full of worms would I still keep it in the refrigerator? Would I put it in a fruit salad anyway because I'd already paid for it? Of course not, the money's gone, you throw that shit away and try to do a better job next time.

 

Keeping shitty players on the roster because of guaranteed money doesn't get them anything.  All they get is a shitty player stinking up the roster along with that dead cap.  This is such a common mistake it even has a name: sunk cost fallacy.  The Bengals FO act like they've never heard of it.  Either that or they've created a culture of happy-go-lucky bullshit where no one wants to be the first to say the Emperor is booty-butt naked.

[dex]

6 hours ago, T-Dub said:

 

 

Keeping shitty players on the roster because of guaranteed money doesn't get them anything.  All they get is a shitty player stinking up the roster along with that dead cap.  This is such a common mistake it even has a name: sunk cost fallacy.  The Bengals FO act like they've never heard of it.  Either that or they've created a culture of happy-go-lucky bullshit where no one wants to be the first to say the Emperor is booty-butt naked.

The front office made a mistake drafting Jackson Carman in the 2nd round,  but can we stop pretending the only reason Carman was on the roster is because he was a 2nd rounder? He had a surprisingly good postseason at LT in January 2023 against Buffalo and even against KC. The promise he showed in the playoffs was why he was still around in year 3. Did he turn a corner then? Apparently not since he was only active 2 games last season with the OL healthy all season. He could easily get cut before opening day this season, and I'll go on record predicting that happens now.

 

Question: Why doesn't D'Ante Smith catch the amount of grief or more than Carman does, even though Smith has taken fewer career snaps and certainly doesn't have a good playoff performance on his resume? We all know why...because Carman was a 2nd round draft choice and Smith was a lowly 4th rounder. Both guys will likely get waived this year on cutdown day.

[|High School Harry|]

The curve ball here is they always pick up a late cut or two during the preseason.  

[|BlackJesus|]

48 minutes ago, dex said:

because Carman was a 2nd round draft choice

 

With higher draft status comes higher expectations from fans. 

 

It's the same reason why Drew Sample catches so much flak despite being a quality starter since he got here. Compared to Carman, Sample should be in the Bengals Ring of Honor, yet many fans still shit on him and say he was a reach. 

 

As for Carman, I think the frustration is that deep down fans know he shouldn't be such a scrub based on his "god given" talent. He was a 5 star recruit handling the blind side for Trevor Lawrence at a CFB playoff program and gets a little money in his pocket and can't find his ass from his elbow. It's mental and not physical, where as D'ante Smith doesn't have the natural ability to begin with. 

[PatternMaster]

16 hours ago, dex said:

If you want to know what offensive linemen will be active on gameday, take a close look at the field goal protection unit Darrin Simmons had in place this week:

DSample/Mims/OBrown/Adomitis/THill/Ford/TBrown. From last season's unit we have Hill replacing Scharping, Mims replacing Volson, TBrown replacing JWilliams. Sample, OBrown and Ford were all part of last season's unit. So it looks like the 3 projected o-linemen projected to be gameday actives are Mims/Ford/THill.

 

Jackson Carman was only active for 2 games last season. So unless there are significant oline injuries in the preseason, think Jackson Carman will get cut before opening day and his 4th year salary as a 2nd round pick gets fully guaranteed.

 

In 2024, Carman will earn a base salary of $1,675,902, while carrying a cap hit of $2,370,438 and a dead cap value of $694,536.

 

This is a great observation and something to watch as the offseason progresses. I wonder if the Bengals will try to trade Carman to another team that needs a young guy with potential that has injuries or shaky line play. 

 

7 hours ago, T-Dub said:

Even if his salary was guaranteed, so what, he's still dead weight.

 

Like if I went to buy a watermelon and got home and it was rotten & full of worms would I still keep it in the refrigerator? Would I put it in a fruit salad anyway because I'd already paid for it? Of course not, the money's gone, you throw that shit away and try to do a better job next time.

 

Keeping shitty players on the roster because of guaranteed money doesn't get them anything.  All they get is a shitty player stinking up the roster along with that dead cap.  This is such a common mistake it even has a name: sunk cost fallacy.  The Bengals FO act like they've never heard of it.  Either that or they've created a culture of happy-go-lucky bullshit where no one wants to be the first to say the Emperor is booty-butt naked.

 

I think that he has value, there's a reason why certain players are starters and some are not. I wouldn't classify Carman as a shitty player, he needs some development. He's shown flashes of good/great play, that playoff game vs. Buffalo when he played LT was his best NFL game and he will get another opportunity to play for another team based on that tape. 

 

1 hour ago, dex said:

The front office made a mistake drafting Jackson Carman in the 2nd round,  but can we stop pretending the only reason Carman was on the roster is because he was a 2nd rounder? He had a surprisingly good postseason at LT in January 2023 against Buffalo and even against KC. The promise he showed in the playoffs was why he was still around in year 3. Did he turn a corner then? Apparently not since he was only active 2 games last season with the OL healthy all season. He could easily get cut before opening day this season, and I'll go on record predicting that happens now.

 

Question: Why doesn't D'Ante Smith catch the amount of grief or more than Carman does, even though Smith has taken fewer career snaps and certainly doesn't have a good playoff performance on his resume? We all know why...because Carman was a 2nd round draft choice and Smith was a lowly 4th rounder. Both guys will likely get waived this year on cutdown day.

 

Carman can't control when he was drafted and how much the media hyped him up, he's also not in control of the quality of the coaching he has received since he's been in the NFL. Pollack is a decent coach, but his track record with developing young players with the Bengals is not great, so I think the majority of the Carman hate is misplaced and quite frankly a bit silly. He was labeled an immature as a rookie, 

 

It's like the media and fans find certain guys to single out and make the focus of all their negativity..it's weird...guys like Chris Evans and Jackson Carman get an unusual amount of negative press and hate from fans. 

[claptonrocks]

1 hour ago, PatternMaster said:

 

This is a great observation and something to watch as the offseason progresses. I wonder if the Bengals will try to trade Carman to another team that needs a young guy with potential that has injuries or shaky line play. 

 

 

I think that he has value, there's a reason why certain players are starters and some are not. I wouldn't classify Carman as a shitty player, he needs some development. He's shown flashes of good/great play, that playoff game vs. Buffalo when he played LT was his best NFL game and he will get another opportunity to play for another team based on that tape. 

 

 

Carman can't control when he was drafted and how much the media hyped him up, he's also not in control of the quality of the coaching he has received since he's been in the NFL. Pollack is a decent coach, but his track record with developing young players with the Bengals is not great, so I think the majority of the Carman hate is misplaced and quite frankly a bit silly. He was labeled an immature as a rookie, 

 

It's like the media and fans find certain guys to single out and make the focus of all their negativity..it's weird...guys like Chris Evans and Jackson Carman get an unusual amount of negative press and hate from fans. 

"Trade Carman to a team that needs depth,"...

Isn't that the Bengals?

 

1.6 mil isn't a bad price for a player as you said that's young with potential.

 

Keep the kid here.

He may come in handy down the road.

[sparky151]

I doubt Carman gets cut. The Bengals will likely carry 4 tackles on the roster and he's clearly ahead of Smith or Cochran or any tackle on the roster not named Brown or Mims. So unless the team trades for or claims a guy from another team, it looks like Carman can coast another year. 

 

The main cost of drafting Carman is the opportunity cost of wasting a high pick on another of their conversion projects. You may remember he was drafted to play guard after being a tackle at the HS and college levels. It didn't work out. There were a number of good players we passed over to take Jackson. Creed Humphrey is the most obvious. 

[PatternMaster]

1 hour ago, BlackJesus said:

 

With higher draft status comes higher expectations from fans. 

 

It's the same reason why Drew Sample catches so much flak despite being a quality starter since he got here. Compared to Carman, Sample should be in the Bengals Ring of Honor, yet many fans still shit on him and say he was a reach. 

 

As for Carman, I think the frustration is that deep down fans know he shouldn't be such a scrub based on his "god given" talent. He was a 5 star recruit handling the blind side for Trevor Lawrence at a CFB playoff program and gets a little money in his pocket and can't find his ass from his elbow. It's mental and not physical, where as D'ante Smith doesn't have the natural ability to begin with. 

 

Sample isn't a quality starter, backup maybe..but not a starter and he was a reach. His career stat line is like one season for a quality starting TE in the NFL.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/S/SampDr00.htm

 

He's played in 61 games and has 621 career receiving yards, that like 10 yards per game...not starting caliber. I understand he does more than catch passes, but he has to average more than 10 yards a game to be considered a quality starter in the NFL. 

[PatternMaster]

1 hour ago, claptonrocks said:

"Trade Carman to a team that needs depth,"...

Isn't that the Bengals?

 

1.6 mil isn't a bad price for a player as you said that's young with potential.

 

Keep the kid here.

He may come in handy down the road.

 

If he's not going to dress out on Sundays and the Bengals aren't going to re-sign him after his rookie deal expires then why not trade him? I would keep him, which is why I have him listed on my final 53, I like his potential and what he has shown on tape lately. 

 

7 minutes ago, sparky151 said:

I doubt Carman gets cut. The Bengals will likely carry 4 tackles on the roster and he's clearly ahead of Smith or Cochran or any tackle on the roster not named Brown or Mims. So unless the team trades for or claims a guy from another team, it looks like Carman can coast another year. 

 

The main cost of drafting Carman is the opportunity cost of wasting a high pick on another of their conversion projects. You may remember he was drafted to play guard after being a tackle at the HS and college levels. It didn't work out. There were a number of good players we passed over to take Jackson. Creed Humphrey is the most obvious. 

 

I agree and if you want to blame anyone for where he was drafted that is the Bengals' fault, not Carman's. The scouting department shouldn't have taken a guy who played one position all of his life and tried to get him to play a different position at the highest level of competition with mediocre-at-best coaching, not a good plan. Looking back at it, if the Bengals wanted a RG, drafting an actual OG would have been the smart move...It's crazy how much these teams overthink this stuff and forgo the obvious for the obtuse. 

[I_C_Deadpeople]

Cartman can’t be cut until Hobs has an article on him telling us all what great progress he has made this offseason. 

[|BlackJesus|]

If Carman actually had an epiphany and began to play at a level he was supposed to, it would solidify the Bengals line with some amazing depth. But don't hold your breath. 

 

I think they will let him play out this year though, just in case. Before he moves on next season when some schmuck squad (Denver? Jags?) overpays him solely based on his draft position. 

[PatternMaster]

1 hour ago, I_C_Deadpeople said:

Cartman can’t be cut until Hobs has an article on him telling us all what great progress he has made this offseason. 

 

Fattening him up for the kill or the trade market.

[sparky151]

1 hour ago, BlackJesus said:

If Carman actually had an epiphany and began to play at a level he was supposed to, it would solidify the Bengals line with some amazing depth. But don't hold your breath. 

 

I think they will let him play out this year though, just in case. Before he moves on next season when some schmuck squad (Denver? Jags?) overpays him solely based on his draft position. 

 

They'll let him play out this year for lack of a better alternative and to avoid admission of failure. 

[PatternMaster]

16 minutes ago, sparky151 said:

 

They'll let him play out this year for lack of a better alternative and to avoid admission of failure. 

 

That is the Bengals way, that way they don't have to worry about cutting a 2nd round pick. Letting him leave via FA next offseason looks a lot better and could potentially get you a comp pick and we all know the Bengals love comp picks. 

[dex]

Here is my projected list of the 48 active players for Week 1:

 

QB: (2) Burrow, Browning

RB (3) CBrown, Moss, TWilliams

WR (6) Chase, Higgins, Iosivas, Irwin, Burton, Jones

TE: (3) Gesicki, DSample, Hudson                                                           NOTE: All/McLaughlin are behind the learning curve because of injuries 

OL (8) OBrown, Volson. Karras, Cappa, TBrown, Mims, Ford, THill

DT: (4) Rankins, BHill, Jenkins, Carter                                                      NOTE: Jackson may not be ready in W1, Carter took a stunning 500 scrimmage snaps last season

DE (5) Hendrickson, Hubbard, Murphy, Ossai, Sample

LB (5) Wilson, Pratt, Davis-Gaither, Bachie, Casey                                  NOTE: All 5 LBs on the roster will need to be active because of ST needs

CB (5) Taylor-Britt, Turner, DHill, Hilton, Newton                                     

S (4) Stone, Bell, Battle, Anderson

K(1) McPherson

P (1) McNamara

LS (1) Adomitis

 

 

[T-Dub]

1 hour ago, PatternMaster said:

 

That is the Bengals way, that way they don't have to worry about cutting a 2nd round pick. Letting him leave via FA next offseason looks a lot better and could potentially get you a comp pick and we all know the Bengals love comp picks. 

 

That's what I'm saying, but have to ask "looks a lot better" to who exactly? The fans know they've been comically bad at drafting OL.  I don't think any season ticket holders are going to cancel their license if they cut Jackson Carman.  The move would be lucky to make the crawl at the bottom of the screen on ESPN.

 

No one outside the FO outside of him & his immediate family would care. They're trying to protect a reputation that doesn't really exist outside of their imagination.  There's a sort of disconnect apparent, like they're desperately trying to maintain a fantasy where they're all infallible.  Mistakes are really just bad luck and no one is accountable to anybody else.

 

That's a cultural problem much bigger than one marginal backup OT.