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Williams: Joe Burrow can't do it all. Bengals season is lost. Here's who to blame


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2 hours ago, Randle P McMurphy said:

The F.O. is a joke from the way it's run and the way it's structured!  Anyone that still believes that the younger family members are

now running the team and making decisions or believe that things will get better when the younger ones take over are delusional!

 

 

Tobin is the Bengals version of Mel Kiper.  Problem there is even Mel Kiper has a bigger scouting department!

 

Zac Taylor should be a QB coach somewhere or at best a middle of the road OC.  He was "in the right place

at the right time," when the Bengals hired him, (A young offensive minded coach from the Sean McVay coaching

tree).  Without Burrow Taylor isn't shit!  Again, that goes back to the F.O. following trends instead of setting trends.

When Marvin Lewis was hired, the hot trend was making top defensive coordinators head coaches.  If you guys recall,

it took Taylor FOREVER to find someone to be his defensive coordinator because the better, more established ones

turned down the offer.

 

This team should be 4-1 or at worst 3-2.  Instead were tied for last with the Stains at 1-4.  To make things worse

0-3 at home and 0-3 in the conference after 5 weeks!  At this rate, Burrow will end up being this generations,

"Dan Marino," making a SB appearance early in his career and nothing more.  

 

 

Without Brady, Billicheck isn't shit.

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14 minutes ago, Jamie_B said:

 

 

I don't think the team thinks they are playing championship football right now. Joe said so in his press conference.

 

 

 

 

I know he said that, but everything I'm reading is this same shit like they're where they are because of bad luck.  Once again, no accountability (aside from Joe, of course). 

 

 

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I also don't think the team is bad. I think the offense is championship level but the defense is statistically the 2nd worst iirc

 

They are 1-4.  It's just as bad as any other 1-4 team.  There are no winless teams now so they're among the worst in the league. 

 

If this, that or the other thing then sure they would have won more games.  Just like every other 1-4 team.

 

No offense to you or anyone else but.. stop. :D  They're a good team when they play like a good team and win most of their games, not as some kind of theoretical.

 

 

Quote

I also don't think the team is bad. I think the offense is championship level but the defense is statistically the 2nd worst iirc

 

 

I will be very surprised if this team gets to 8 wins. 

 

 

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3 hours ago, Randle P McMurphy said:

At this rate, Burrow will end up being this generations,

"Dan Marino," making a SB appearance early in his career and nothing more.  

The big difference, is that Dan/Miami were always at or near the top of tha AFC year in and year out—10 of his 17 years in the playoffs. Just seems they were always beaten by NE or BUF 

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Brilliant but beaten: the historic, searing misfortune of Joe Burrow

The Bengals QB has 12 touchdowns and just two interceptions this season. Yet his team find themselves scraping the barrel

 

 

But that hasn’t been enough to stop the Bengals slipping out of the playoff race – “We’re not a championship-level team right now,” was Burrow’s brutal conclusion after Sunday’s loss. Most of Cincinnati’s issues center around a defense that has been especially awful against the run, and has forced Burrow to make as many big plays as possible just to keep his team in games – which he is certainly capable of doing.

 

On Sunday, Burrow completed 30 of 39 passes for 392 yards, five touchdowns, one interception, and a passer rating of 137.0. It was one of the best quarterback performances of the season, and it helped the Bengals to leads of 24-14 in the third quarter, and 38-28 in the fourth. But the Bengals’ defense grabbed defeat from the jaws of victory once again, allowing Lamar Jackson and Derrick Henry to do their collective things late in regulation and into overtime.

 

It also didn’t help that when Jackson fumbled the ball to the Bengals with 6:37 left in overtime, the decision was made to run the ball three straight times for a total of three yards, which led to a missed 53-yard field goal attempt – on a bad hold – by kicker Evan McPherson. One play later, the Ravens put the boot in (we’ll get to the specifics in just a minute), and once again, Burrow’s outstanding performance was for nothing. He became the 10th quarterback in NFL history with more than 390 passing yards, at least five touchdown passes, and a completion percentage higher than 75%, and none of it meant anything.

 

Burrow isn’t perfect – he threw a killer interception with 3:05 left in the fourth quarter that allowed the Ravens to tie the game in regulation. But the Bengals’ four losses have been by a total margin of 15 points. All is not lost here, but it’s tough to tell anybody on the team that.

 

“It was just winning a lot of our one-on-one coverages,” Bengals receiver Tee Higgins said after the loss. “We knew that was going to be big for this game. We knew that was our mentality, to come in and win those one-on-ones. It just wasn’t enough.”

 

How rare is Burrow’s bad luck? If you extrapolate it out to a full season, it’s nearly impossible to have things go this dramatically against you when you’re playing this well. In pro football history, there’s been exactly one quarterback to start at least 10 games, have a passer rating of at least 100.0, and to be involved in four or fewer wins: Deshaun Watson of the 2020 Houston Texans. Believe it or not, Watson played at a MVP level for a 4-12 Texans team that fired head coach Bill O’Brien after an 0-4 start, and maintained mediocrity with interim head coach Romeo Crennel.

 

Of course, we do not expect things to fall apart for Burrow as they subsequently have for Watson, for all the obvious possible reasons.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2024/oct/07/brilliant-but-beaten-the-historical-searing-misfortune-of-joe-burrow

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1 hour ago, BlackJesus said:

Brilliant but beaten: the historic, searing misfortune of Joe Burrow

The Bengals QB has 12 touchdowns and just two interceptions this season. Yet his team find themselves scraping the barrel

 
Mon 7 Oct 2024 09.10 CEST
 
It’s official: Joe Burrow of the Cincinnati Bengals is one of the unluckiest quarterbacks we’ve ever seen. The Bengals lost 41-38 to the Baltimore Ravens in overtime on Sunday, sending Cincinnati to 1-4 on the season. It certainly hasn’t been Burrow’s fault – through the first five games of the season, Burrow has completed 125 of 173 passes (a 72.3% completion rate) for 1,370 yards (7.9 yards per attempt), 12 touchdowns, two interceptions, and an outstanding passer rating of 113.6 (his QBR of 73.6 is the second-best in the league).

 

But that hasn’t been enough to stop the Bengals slipping out of the playoff race – “We’re not a championship-level team right now,” was Burrow’s brutal conclusion after Sunday’s loss. Most of Cincinnati’s issues center around a defense that has been especially awful against the run, and has forced Burrow to make as many big plays as possible just to keep his team in games – which he is certainly capable of doing.

 

On Sunday, Burrow completed 30 of 39 passes for 392 yards, five touchdowns, one interception, and a passer rating of 137.0. It was one of the best quarterback performances of the season, and it helped the Bengals to leads of 24-14 in the third quarter, and 38-28 in the fourth. But the Bengals’ defense grabbed defeat from the jaws of victory once again, allowing Lamar Jackson and Derrick Henry to do their collective things late in regulation and into overtime.

 

It also didn’t help that when Jackson fumbled the ball to the Bengals with 6:37 left in overtime, the decision was made to run the ball three straight times for a total of three yards, which led to a missed 53-yard field goal attempt – on a bad hold – by kicker Evan McPherson. One play later, the Ravens put the boot in (we’ll get to the specifics in just a minute), and once again, Burrow’s outstanding performance was for nothing. He became the 10th quarterback in NFL history with more than 390 passing yards, at least five touchdown passes, and a completion percentage higher than 75%, and none of it meant anything.

 

Burrow isn’t perfect – he threw a killer interception with 3:05 left in the fourth quarter that allowed the Ravens to tie the game in regulation. But the Bengals’ four losses have been by a total margin of 15 points. All is not lost here, but it’s tough to tell anybody on the team that.

 

“It was just winning a lot of our one-on-one coverages,” Bengals receiver Tee Higgins said after the loss. “We knew that was going to be big for this game. We knew that was our mentality, to come in and win those one-on-ones. It just wasn’t enough.”

 

How rare is Burrow’s bad luck? If you extrapolate it out to a full season, it’s nearly impossible to have things go this dramatically against you when you’re playing this well. In pro football history, there’s been exactly one quarterback to start at least 10 games, have a passer rating of at least 100.0, and to be involved in four or fewer wins: Deshaun Watson of the 2020 Houston Texans. Believe it or not, Watson played at a MVP level for a 4-12 Texans team that fired head coach Bill O’Brien after an 0-4 start, and maintained mediocrity with interim head coach Romeo Crennel.

 

Of course, we do not expect things to fall apart for Burrow as they subsequently have for Watson, for all the obvious possible reasons.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2024/oct/07/brilliant-but-beaten-the-historical-searing-misfortune-of-joe-burrow

4 losses by a total of 15' pts.

😡

 

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9 hours ago, Jamie_B said:

 

 

So let's talk about the idea that Lous scheme is too complex for young guys. 

 

I would suggest in order for us to determine that to be true we need to ask what young guy have we drafted that has come on and shown up and shown out after being in the scheme for a few years?

 

I would argue we just don't have the talent.

 

Cam is a CB2. Our LBs are good when they aren't being forced to do too much because the other guys around them are failing. But who else on D have we drafted that isn't just a jag?

 

This is a good question.  For me at least it's not youth that makes a player unable to "fit" Lou's scheme, and it might just be talent (and for me, brains), as you suggest.

 

Let me first define "talent" to mean a very good to excellent NFL player, which most teams simply hope to have a handful of and they can make due with average to above-average everywhere else.

 

My point is he doesn't need talent in every position.  It seems though he needs exact, specific, RARE profiles in at least 4 positions (by my own estimation) - he needs one highly consistent pass rusher who can get all your pressure and sacks, he needs a two-gap NT that doesn't lose and stops the run like a beast, he needs at least one LB that checks all the Pro-Bowl boxes (tackling, speed, recognition, brains) and he needs one safety that has - yes - talent, plus brains, plus speed, plus recognition.  As a unit he seems to need DBs who can play not just good, but excellent coverage in zone, and they ALL have to be able to tackle, not just "ok", but "the run won't be stopped if you don't fill a gap" type.  Take any of these ingredients out and things start to fall apart fast.   The difference of all this from other, CONSISTENT defenses is they ADAPT to what they HAVE, they don't crumble into dust because their specific luxury roles aren't filled.  Also for anyone who would argue the above ingredients are what all TOP defenses have - sure, but Lou needs all of that just to reach "good".  That's not a sustainable model IMO.

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5 hours ago, Randle P McMurphy said:

The F.O. is a joke from the way it's run and the way it's structured!  Anyone that still believes that the younger family members are

now running the team and making decisions or believe that things will get better when the younger ones take over are delusional!

 

 

Tobin is the Bengals version of Mel Kiper.  Problem there is even Mel Kiper has a bigger scouting department!

 

Zac Taylor should be a QB coach somewhere or at best a middle of the road OC.  He was "in the right place

at the right time," when the Bengals hired him, (A young offensive minded coach from the Sean McVay coaching

tree).  Without Burrow Taylor isn't shit!  Again, that goes back to the F.O. following trends instead of setting trends.

When Marvin Lewis was hired, the hot trend was making top defensive coordinators head coaches.  If you guys recall,

it took Taylor FOREVER to find someone to be his defensive coordinator because the better, more established ones

turned down the offer.

 

This team should be 4-1 or at worst 3-2.  Instead were tied for last with the Stains at 1-4.  To make things worse

0-3 at home and 0-3 in the conference after 5 weeks!  At this rate, Burrow will end up being this generations,

"Dan Marino," making a SB appearance early in his career and nothing more.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

Spot on. We will never fire a coach under contract. Whoever heard of such nonsense. In the NFL!  Of all the things they never do, besides win rings, the most infuriating to me is stubbornly never making trades for or going after star players mid season. I mean it's too late for us now, too many needs, but ask the Rams if trading picks for Von Miller was the right move. It resulted in a Lombardi. At our expense! Wish we'd done the same for an O lineman or two, but spilt milk now. We just can't continue with one arm tied behind our back with all this, "we always do this, we never do that" generational garbage. Someone, whether a Brown or Blackburn or whoever truly has the reins, needs to look in the mirror and say, "our etched in stone policies are not working". Could be awhile til things got better even after something like this, but it's starting to feel like rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic, arguing over the minutiae. We have serious firepower on offense, but we are systemically hamstrung. 

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I mean if our defense is so freaking awful then how bad is Baltimore's defense?? They must be dog awful too only allowing 3 points less than we did.   There is no defense anymore. I'm tired of people pretending like defense is still a thing in the NFL. 

It was a shootout between two great QB's that put up a shit ton of points.  Money mac missed a GD field goal and we lost.  That's it. No need to dog the dudes on defense. They gotta play two hand touch out there these days and walk on eggshells all game. 

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58 minutes ago, HavePityPlease said:

 

This is a good question.  For me at least it's not youth that makes a player unable to "fit" Lou's scheme, and it might just be talent (and for me, brains), as you suggest.

 

Let me first define "talent" to mean a very good to excellent NFL player, which most teams simply hope to have a handful of and they can make due with average to above-average everywhere else.

 

My point is he doesn't need talent in every position.  It seems though he needs exact, specific, RARE profiles in at least 4 positions (by my own estimation) - he needs one highly consistent pass rusher who can get all your pressure and sacks, he needs a two-gap NT that doesn't lose and stops the run like a beast, he needs at least one LB that checks all the Pro-Bowl boxes (tackling, speed, recognition, brains) and he needs one safety that has - yes - talent, plus brains, plus speed, plus recognition.  As a unit he seems to need DBs who can play not just good, but excellent coverage in zone, and they ALL have to be able to tackle, not just "ok", but "the run won't be stopped if you don't fill a gap" type.  Take any of these ingredients out and things start to fall apart fast.   The difference of all this from other, CONSISTENT defenses is they ADAPT to what they HAVE, they don't crumble into dust because their specific luxury roles aren't filled.  Also for anyone who would argue the above ingredients are what all TOP defenses have - sure, but Lou needs all of that just to reach "good".  That's not a sustainable model IMO.

 

I agree with the cap that you are not going to get pro-bowl talent at every position, I do believe however if you draft well you can get at least one good player at each position level, meaning line, lb, and dbs, then fill out the rest with guys that are average or role players. 

 

My contention here is we don't draft well enough to have even one good player ... that we drafted... at any of the levels. Maybe Logan Wilson or Germaine Pratt. But the front end and back end? I don't see anyone that we drafted that is good.

 

It's why as much as I love Tee, I don't think moving on and finding a vet in FA with that money on either the Dline or in the backfield would be that bad of an idea.

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1 hour ago, Jamie_B said:

 

I agree with the cap that you are not going to get pro-bowl talent at every position, I do believe however if you draft well you can get at least one good player at each position level, meaning line, lb, and dbs, then fill out the rest with guys that are average or role players. 

 

My contention here is we don't draft well enough to have even one good player ... that we drafted... at any of the levels. Maybe Logan Wilson or Germaine Pratt. But the front end and back end? I don't see anyone that we drafted that is good.

 

It's why as much as I love Tee, I don't think moving on and finding a vet in FA with that money on either the Dline or in the backfield would be that bad of an idea.

 

I'd say we're in total agreement here, but I do think we've done better than you might think drafting, we just let too many of our worthy draft picks walk.  I'll also say that signing guys "on the up" - Ogunjobi, Reader, Hendrickson, for example - were serious hits, but they've handled all those cases terribly.

 

Hence why I mentioned Bates... we had the backend guy, and the Brown family blew it.  The D-line we haven't drafted any studs, but have we tried?  Did we have to try?  Maybe Jenkins will reach that, but the point about "windows" is you simply can't rely on the draft to FILL holes unless you don't have a choice.  FA newcomers on D is what made them Super Bowl capable, and IMO is the only way they'll get there again (barring the hiring of some miracle DC who suddenly makes the current crew into a proper unit).  I think most of us were baffled when they didn't try to actually back-fill Reader.  That's easier said than done, but nothing public ever made it sound like they tried - they relied on leaving the draft with a "hope and a prayer", and that will never result in a contender.

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For those old enough to remember, this kinda feels like the last half of the 80s, an era of missed opportunities due to weak defenses.

 

The 1985-1990 teams led by Boomer could light up the scoreboard, but the defense gave up a lot of yards and points every year except maybe the Super Bowl season of 1988. The 1990 team made it to the divisional round (the Bo Jackson game) despite having a defense in the bottom 4 or 5 in the league, yardage-wise. The '85, '86, and '89 teams would've been in the playoffs, as well, if they'd just had middle-of-the-pack defenses. They missed the playoffs by one game each of those years.

 

It was frustrating. This is frustrating.

 

 

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1 hour ago, Randle P McMurphy said:

 

Who made the decision to go with Brady over Drew Bledsoe?  If Belichick doesn't make that decision, no one ever hears of Brady.

 

Bledsoe's injury made that decision 

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11 hours ago, HavePityPlease said:

 

I'd say we're in total agreement here, but I do think we've done better than you might think drafting, we just let too many of our worthy draft picks walk.  I'll also say that signing guys "on the up" - Ogunjobi, Reader, Hendrickson, for example - were serious hits, but they've handled all those cases terribly.

 

Hence why I mentioned Bates... we had the backend guy, and the Brown family blew it.  The D-line we haven't drafted any studs, but have we tried?  Did we have to try?  Maybe Jenkins will reach that, but the point about "windows" is you simply can't rely on the draft to FILL holes unless you don't have a choice.  FA newcomers on D is what made them Super Bowl capable, and IMO is the only way they'll get there again (barring the hiring of some miracle DC who suddenly makes the current crew into a proper unit).  I think most of us were baffled when they didn't try to actually back-fill Reader.  That's easier said than done, but nothing public ever made it sound like they tried - they relied on leaving the draft with a "hope and a prayer", and that will never result in a contender.

 

Bates was drafted by Marvin.

 

This is what I mean about coaching being your primary draft people. Under Marvin we found Bates, Atkins, Peko. Whitworth.

 

Under Taylor we've found Wilson, Pratt, Higgins, and while he's a rookie, I like All alot.

 

We need a consistent front office that finds guys because putting it all on coaching yields inconsistent results.

 

I get that's the Paul Brown way, but that way has long passed.

 

But as far as Bates, I get why they did what they did. The Bates money was used on Orlando Brown, who while he may have had issues his first year playing hurt, taking a probowl LT is far more important than keeping a pro bowl safety.

 

The Reader thing bothers me the most because they sat on their hands waiting and DJ said that was the biggest reason he moved on. (We saw the same with how long they waited to even talk to Tee to see what he wanted)

 

But if you make moves like that you have to do better than they are finding replacements. 

 

And on defense were not.

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13 minutes ago, Jamie_B said:

 

Bates was drafted by Marvin.

 

This is what I mean about coaching being your primary draft people. Under Marvin we found Bates, Atkins, Peko. Whitworth.

 

Under Taylor we've found Wilson, Pratt, Higgins, and while he's a rookie, I like All alot.

 

We need a consistent front office that finds guys because putting it all on coaching yields inconsistent results.

 

I get that's the Paul Brown way, but that way has long passed.

 

But as far as Bates, I get why they did what they did. The Bates money was used on Orlando Brown, who while he may have had issues his first year playing hurt, taking a probowl LT is far more important than keeping a pro bowl safety.

 

The Reader thing bothers me the most because they sat on their hands waiting and DJ said that was the biggest reason he moved on. (We saw the same with how long they waited to even talk to Tee to see what he wanted)

 

But if you make moves like that you have to do better than they are finding replacements. 

 

And on defense were not.

Agree with the sitting on their hands thing.

But what now bothers me most about the Reader thing is we are paying Sheldon Richardson more that 

Reader is being paid in Detroit.  I guess they thought he was injured more than he was and let him go.

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13 minutes ago, High School Harry said:

Agree with the sitting on their hands thing.

But what now bothers me most about the Reader thing is we are paying Sheldon Richardson more that 

Reader is being paid in Detroit.  I guess they thought he was injured more than he was and let him go.

 

Yup that is frustrating as hell.

 

I think for me the biggest problem I have with the front office is their Hubris. 

 

These things have been problems for years, they have been pointed out by people that want to see the Bengals be successful, that have worked for other successful organizations. And yet they continue to refuse to make the changes necessary to produce a consistent winner. 

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1 hour ago, Jamie_B said:

 

Bledsoe's injury made that decision 

I remember that like it was yesterday. Basically happened right in front of our section. He was running to the sideline after being flushed from the pocket, and was hammered pretty good. I found this photo, but this might not be the one (he was getting hit all game fairly solid. 

 

1,241 Patriots Qb Drew Bledsoe Stock Photos, High-Res Pictures, and Images  - Getty Images

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