OL Coach search

[Le Tigre]

2 hours ago, T-Dub said:

Matt Lee seems to have the inside track to replace him but I'd sure like to see him get more live snaps before that happens.

Try as I might…I just cannot grasp the infatuation with this fellow. Not that he has had much work to show otherwise, but his name gets spoken in Ragnow/Creed tones. 
 

You are correct in your caution 

[Jamie_B]

We all kept talking about how we would have loved to have Callahan when the Browns line was so good, so we hire his assistant, can't complain about that.

[T-Dub]

2 hours ago, dex said:

Cappa has only a slightly better chance than Rankins to be retained. I would put it at 10%. Things are working against Cappa.

 

1) The OL coach that bestowed "glass-eating" status on only the tallest of OGs has been kicked to the curb.

 

2) Cappa was ranked the worst guard in the league, barely besting his teammate Volson for the honor. 

 

3) The Bengals could bring in another lineman to be the new worst OG in the NFL while also saving 8M against the cap in the process.

 

 

That's all true but either he or Ford are likely to be starting next year.  It's hard to imagine them replacing both this off-season, even though they could.

 

They're going to have to spend some money here.  Either of those guys + a rookie opposite is flirting with disaster.  I don't see them drafting a first round guard and even that comes with risk.  The later the pick the more unlikely they're a day one starter.  I'd sign Ford, go fishing for a new guard with Cappa's money & then draft another in the first 3-4 rounds with the hope they quickly pass Ford on the depth chart.

 

 

[gupps]

I'm all in on spending a day 1/2 pick on a guard and maybe double dipping on day 3. You could also try Lee at C and move Karras to LG, tho I'd still draft a guard fairly high. Since 2020 the Bengals have drafted exactly 3 OL in the first four rounds. (Carman/Volson/Mims) Considering how bad Joe has been getting beaten up thats criminal.

[dex]

3 hours ago, gupps said:

I'm all in on spending a day 1/2 pick on a guard and maybe double dipping on day 3. You could also try Lee at C and move Karras to LG, tho I'd still draft a guard fairly high. Since 2020 the Bengals have drafted exactly 3 OL in the first four rounds. (Carman/Volson/Mims) Considering how bad Joe has been getting beaten up thats criminal.

You forgot D'Ante Smith, 4th rounder.

[LostInDaJungle]

13 hours ago, Le Tigre said:

Try as I might…I just cannot grasp the infatuation with this fellow. Not that he has had much work to show otherwise, but his name gets spoken in Ragnow/Creed tones. 
 

You are correct in your caution 

I've seen the scouting breakdowns on Matt Lee.

My only "Hunh?" about the assumption that he's going to be the new starter... Why did he last until the 7th if he's such a sure fire pick and OL talent is tough to find? Those are all reasons to ask what his NFL ceiling really is. He's not a guy who jumps out at you on tape. And even with the market for NFL centers being a day 2 pick at best... Why are we seeing something no other NFL team was willing to invest in until the late rounds? We're just working off the assumption that the Bengals scouting department is that good? Really??

I'm not saying draft pick is some indicator of future success... More curious why the fan base is so enamored with a guy who was a few spots away from being Mr. Irrelevant. 

[claptonrocks]

7 minutes ago, LostInDaJungle said:

I've seen the scouting breakdowns on Matt Lee.

My only "Hunh?" about the assumption that he's going to be the new starter... Why did he last until the 7th if he's such a sure fire pick and OL talent is tough to find? Those are all reasons to ask what his NFL ceiling really is. He's not a guy who jumps out at you on tape. And even with the market for NFL centers being a day 2 pick at best... Why are we seeing something no other NFL team was willing to invest in until the late rounds? We're just working off the assumption that the Bengals scouting department is that good? Really??

I'm not saying draft pick is some indicator of future success... More curious why the fan base is so enamored with a guy who was a few spots away from being Mr. Irrelevant. 

Good points.

Draft a couple promising guards.

Ratledge should be high on their list but when to draft him.

2nd Rd...

1st Rd either a DE or DT .

Time to take the trenches to a higher level.

[LostInDaJungle]

3 hours ago, gupps said:

I'm all in on spending a day 1/2 pick on a guard and maybe double dipping on day 3. You could also try Lee at C and move Karras to LG, tho I'd still draft a guard fairly high. Since 2020 the Bengals have drafted exactly 3 OL in the first four rounds. (Carman/Volson/Mims) Considering how bad Joe has been getting beaten up thats criminal.

The old saying is that if you need one player, you draft two.

[gupps]

42 minutes ago, dex said:

You forgot D'Ante Smith, 4th rounder.

 

You are correct sir. My apologies.

 

 

[-GoBengals-]

 

On 1/20/2025 at 9:52 AM, UncleEarl said:

 

Did God tell him to fool around with underage girls? 

 

probably. would be pretty on brand tbh

 

23 hours ago, Jamie_B said:

Someone already edited his wiki lol

 

lol, almost gotta be AI at this point. 

 

23 hours ago, Jamie_B said:

Peters played Guard in the NFL so maybe he can help our guys not suck

 

cant make bad players good. so lets get some decent players.

 

21 hours ago, Jamie_B said:

 

why is he yelling

 

21 hours ago, dex said:

 

 

someone unlock his caps lock 

 

16 hours ago, T-Dub said:

 

I should add that he has his work cut out for him & hope they give him the players to make a difference.  Let's review:

 

LT:  OBjr (28),  above-average but has been healthy and played like it for maybe 11 out of a possible 34 starts.  No backups worth mentioning.

 

LG: No one (?) We benched the starter for a marginal improvement but that guy is now a free agent. If we bring him back to be the worst player on the OL next season we're probably fine but why would we do that?  "Probably fine" shouldn't be good enough. I guess we could call Volson a backup but with him due some big escalators for playing time (if we can call what he did playing) this year it'd be a lot cooler if he was backing out of the parking lot, never to return. Ford sounds a lot better.

 

C : Karras: Still decent if unremarkable. Matt Lee seems to have the inside track to replace him but I'd sure like to see him get more live snaps before that happens.

 

RG: Cappa (29)  When "having a down year" looks more like falling off a cliff. I don't expect he's going anywhere but they could get Lee more snaps here without hurting anyone's feelings. 

 

RT: Mims (22)  As advertised, gutted out some injuries to finish his rookie season.  Amarius is a badass name that sounds like a conquering Roman general. What's not to like? Should only get better from here.

 

 

 The guys in red are 2026 free agents.  Whoever is playing LG may well be on a one-year deal themselves. They've got to give this new coach something to work with so we're not desperate for inside help next year.

 

 

 

i dont know a ton about Lee but i think he is too undersized to play anywhere but Center, or he would have tinkered at LG this past season.

 

15 hours ago, sparky151 said:

He has good references but the NE line was bad last year and Vrabel didn't keep him when he was presumably already under contract. 

 

 

 

Cant say i much care what Vrabel does, especially on the offensive side of the ball, he also didnt pay AJ brown and did pay Tannehill, unless we are assuming the team did that without his agreement. Cant say i much care what the patriots do either. the franchise hasnt done a ton outside the Brady Billy B combo, so at minimum, to me, being let go for a whole new regime in a city with a defensive head coach isnt a knock on a guy.

 

15 hours ago, UncleEarl said:

The board was all excited when Pollack was hired.  Talk of “glass eaters” and other BS.  
 

I don’t have a problem with the hire, but I’m not getting excited.

 

im not sure i f anyone is actually excited, so to speak, just a coach with a good pedigree and is co signed by a bunch of great coaches seems like a solid move. no coach makes bad players good players, so unless he gets good players to coach, the line wont be good.

 

15 hours ago, dex said:

Cappa has only a slightly better chance than Rankins to be retained. I would put it at 10%. Things are working against Cappa.

 

1) The OL coach that bestowed "glass-eating" status on only the tallest of OGs has been kicked to the curb.

 

2) Cappa was ranked the worst guard in the league, barely besting his teammate Volson for the honor. 

 

3) The Bengals could bring in another lineman to be the new worst OG in the NFL while also saving 8M against the cap in the process.

 

i am curious how this one turns out. The money isnt ideal, but isnt outrageous, the Guard pay market is all over the place. few guys in that 10mil range hitting the market, i also dont know whats old AF got guards, here is a list of free agents based on last years pay, for whatever thats worth.

 

 

im showing 4 guards worse than Cappa at seasons end on PFF as an overall grade, and he was worst in pass pro either. someone on there as a 19.7 pass pro grade with qualifying snaps. splitting hairs but he wasnt quite the worst.

 

12 hours ago, T-Dub said:

 

 

That's all true but either he or Ford are likely to be starting next year.  It's hard to imagine them replacing both this off-season, even though they could.

 

They're going to have to spend some money here.  Either of those guys + a rookie opposite is flirting with disaster.  I don't see them drafting a first round guard and even that comes with risk.  The later the pick the more unlikely they're a day one starter.  I'd sign Ford, go fishing for a new guard with Cappa's money & then draft another in the first 3-4 rounds with the hope they quickly pass Ford on the depth chart.

 

 

 

this is the hardest part of pro sports. taking the worst two guys (almost) feels like even just cody ford with time and consistency at LG would have us in the 35 sack range, joewas trending midddle of the pack, and joe admits he takes sacks vs throwing dangerous balls, says if its a first down or punt situation he will hold the ball and take a sack hoping something opens up last second. and when joe runs around for 5 seconds and eventually gets sacked, im not sure im linking that to a guy, its the ones where volson gets run by or pushed over and Heyward or someone is in Burrows ballsack in .5 seconds that gotta stop. so unless there is a clear draft pick and no more valuable options at other positions, then youre sitting with the 10mil or less type guards available to sign. there is that wild jump to the nearly 20mil range after that.

 

35 minutes ago, LostInDaJungle said:

I've seen the scouting breakdowns on Matt Lee.

My only "Hunh?" about the assumption that he's going to be the new starter... Why did he last until the 7th if he's such a sure fire pick and OL talent is tough to find? Those are all reasons to ask what his NFL ceiling really is. He's not a guy who jumps out at you on tape. And even with the market for NFL centers being a day 2 pick at best... Why are we seeing something no other NFL team was willing to invest in until the late rounds? We're just working off the assumption that the Bengals scouting department is that good? Really??

I'm not saying draft pick is some indicator of future success... More curious why the fan base is so enamored with a guy who was a few spots away from being Mr. Irrelevant. 

 

the hype came after being drafted, his draft stock was so low due to his size, and lack of versatility, teams want a guy who can play G/C usually, he can only play Center due to his size, but i think the staff and people raved about him in camp and preseason when he got to play. 

 

 

 

[claptonrocks]

28 minutes ago, GoBengals said:

 

 

probably. would be pretty on brand tbh

 

 

lol, almost gotta be AI at this point. 

 

 

cant make bad players good. so lets get some decent players.

 

 

why is he yelling

 

 

someone unlock his caps lock 

 

 

i dont know a ton about Lee but i think he is too undersized to play anywhere but Center, or he would have tinkered at LG this past season.

 

 

Cant say i much care what Vrabel does, especially on the offensive side of the ball, he also didnt pay AJ brown and did pay Tannehill, unless we are assuming the team did that without his agreement. Cant say i much care what the patriots do either. the franchise hasnt done a ton outside the Brady Billy B combo, so at minimum, to me, being let go for a whole new regime in a city with a defensive head coach isnt a knock on a guy.

 

 

im not sure i f anyone is actually excited, so to speak, just a coach with a good pedigree and is co signed by a bunch of great coaches seems like a solid move. no coach makes bad players good players, so unless he gets good players to coach, the line wont be good.

 

 

i am curious how this one turns out. The money isnt ideal, but isnt outrageous, the Guard pay market is all over the place. few guys in that 10mil range hitting the market, i also dont know whats old AF got guards, here is a list of free agents based on last years pay, for whatever thats worth.

 

 

im showing 4 guards worse than Cappa at seasons end on PFF as an overall grade, and he was worst in pass pro either. someone on there as a 19.7 pass pro grade with qualifying snaps. splitting hairs but he wasnt quite the worst.

 

 

this is the hardest part of pro sports. taking the worst two guys (almost) feels like even just cody ford with time and consistency at LG would have us in the 35 sack range, joewas trending midddle of the pack, and joe admits he takes sacks vs throwing dangerous balls, says if its a first down or punt situation he will hold the ball and take a sack hoping something opens up last second. and when joe runs around for 5 seconds and eventually gets sacked, im not sure im linking that to a guy, its the ones where volson gets run by or pushed over and Heyward or someone is in Burrows ballsack in .5 seconds that gotta stop. so unless there is a clear draft pick and no more valuable options at other positions, then youre sitting with the 10mil or less type guards available to sign. there is that wild jump to the nearly 20mil range after that.

 

 

the hype came after being drafted, his draft stock was so low due to his size, and lack of versatility, teams want a guy who can play G/C usually, he can only play Center due to his size, but i think the staff and people raved about him in camp and preseason when he got to play. 

 

 

 

Bill Callahan took a few decent linemen and lifted their abilities.

Pocic and Teller stand out to me.

Well see how our new OL coach molds these types.

[Griever]

 

[-GoBengals-]

3 hours ago, claptonrocks said:

Bill Callahan took a few decent linemen and lifted their abilities.

Pocic and Teller stand out to me.

Well see how our new OL coach molds these types.

 

yea we need decent guys tho... 

 

100% with you, good coaches turn decent into into good. we are lacking at least 1 decent guy (LG) unless they bring cody back.

 

9 minutes ago, Griever said:

 

 

sounds like what a coach would say...

 

"theres talent here to work with". also can we get better talent please...

[sparky151]

5 hours ago, LostInDaJungle said:

I've seen the scouting breakdowns on Matt Lee.

My only "Hunh?" about the assumption that he's going to be the new starter... Why did he last until the 7th if he's such a sure fire pick and OL talent is tough to find? Those are all reasons to ask what his NFL ceiling really is. He's not a guy who jumps out at you on tape. And even with the market for NFL centers being a day 2 pick at best... Why are we seeing something no other NFL team was willing to invest in until the late rounds? We're just working off the assumption that the Bengals scouting department is that good? Really??

I'm not saying draft pick is some indicator of future success... More curious why the fan base is so enamored with a guy who was a few spots away from being Mr. Irrelevant. 

 

Lee was well regarded by Gridiron Grading. They chart players based on college performance and athleticism. Lee scored well on both those metrics. The knock on him is that he's small and not especially strong but after 5 years in college, he might be maxed out already. The folks behind GG are Bengals fans and connected with Bengals media like Goodberry and Rapien. So Lee was probably more highly regarded by Bengals fans than most other team's fans.

 

 

[T-Dub]

23 minutes ago, sparky151 said:

 

Lee was well regarded by Gridiron Grading. They chart players based on college performance and athleticism. Lee scored well on both those metrics. The knock on him is that he's small and not especially strong but after 5 years in college, he might be maxed out already. The folks behind GG are Bengals fans and connected with Bengals media like Goodberry and Rapien. So Lee was probably more highly regarded by Bengals fans than most other team's fans.

 

 

 

Do not like that.  The weak undersized center that looks textbook in practice and smiles a lot or whatever sounds eerily familiar. Vague painful memories of the likes of Haloti Ngata tossing someone like that around like a chew toy. This is not the division for weak or undersized anything.

[dex]

5 hours ago, GoBengals said:

i am curious how this one turns out. The money isnt ideal, but isnt outrageous, the Guard pay market is all over the place. few guys in that 10mil range hitting the market, i also dont know whats old AF got guards, here is a list of free agents based on last years pay, for whatever thats worth.

 

 

im showing 4 guards worse than Cappa at seasons end on PFF as an overall grade, and he was worst in pass pro either. someone on there as a 19.7 pass pro grade with qualifying snaps. splitting hairs but he wasnt quite the worst.

 

 

 

 

 

 

According to PFF, Cappa led in all three of his major protection categories in the other direction, finishing last among all NFL guards in pressures (51), hurries (36), and sacks allowed (eight, tied with Houston's Shaq Mason).

[T-Dub]

11 minutes ago, dex said:

According to PFF, Cappa led in all three of his major protection categories in the other direction, finishing last among all NFL guards in pressures (51), hurries (36), and sacks allowed (eight, tied with Houston's Shaq Mason).

 

I saw someone refer to it as the Triple Frown.  😆

[LostInDaJungle]

1 hour ago, sparky151 said:

 

Lee was well regarded by Gridiron Grading. They chart players based on college performance and athleticism. Lee scored well on both those metrics. The knock on him is that he's small and not especially strong but after 5 years in college, he might be maxed out already. The folks behind GG are Bengals fans and connected with Bengals media like Goodberry and Rapien. So Lee was probably more highly regarded by Bengals fans than most other team's fans.

 

 

I just think people are confusing the "value" of the pick with him being a great player. People on this board seem to think he's the answer to replacing two OL that were pretty highly regarded when they got here.

It falls into the "First round talent we got in the 4th round!" mold of falling in love with guys... And more often than not, there's a reason those guys fell. And the very occasional Tom Brady. If he's a 4th round talent like GG likes to think... Why did 32 teams wait three rounds to pick him? Yes... Amazing to get a 70/70 guy in the 7th round, but that honestly just makes him the worst of what passes for acceptable college performance.

You can teach a guy to play, but you can't teach him to have longer arms. He's a high floor, low ceiling kind of guy. I'd be VERY reluctant to start making plans about moving the teddy bear. Glad to be proven wrong. I have a feeling Cam Heyward would eat him for lunch.

[Jungletiger]

2 hours ago, Griever said:

 

 

Not gonna lie... I am a little excited.  My lady might not be sleeping much tonight.

[T-Dub]

13 minutes ago, Jungletiger said:

 

Not gonna lie... I am a little excited.  My lady might not be sleeping much tonight.

 

 

IDK what that means but please don't make her push a sled around your yard, it's uncouth

 

 

 

[esjbh2]

24 minutes ago, T-Dub said:

 

 

IDK what that means but please don't make her push a sled around your yard, it's uncouth

 

 

 

I was thinking something related to ketchup.

[-GoBengals-]

1 hour ago, dex said:

According to PFF, Cappa led in all three of his major protection categories in the other direction, finishing last among all NFL guards in pressures (51), hurries (36), and sacks allowed (eight, tied with Houston's Shaq Mason).

 

yea he sucked, im not argueing that, i guess he led in the numbers as you said, but the overall grade takes into account percentages, like if he gave up  51 hurries on 600 snaps and the next guy gave up 50 hurries on 490 snaps, Cappa is going to end with a higher grade. I tend to look at the grades, as the pure numbers dont tell the full story sometimes, BUT, being the worst regardless of snaps is bad news.

 

1 hour ago, T-Dub said:

 

I saw someone refer to it as the Triple Frown.  😆

 

lmgdfao

 

59 minutes ago, T-Dub said:

 

 

IDK what that means but please don't make her push a sled around your yard, it's uncouth

 

 

 

 

 

i think the only other person ive seen use uncooth in passing was my mother.

 

typically describing my own behavior to me.

[Jungletiger]

1 hour ago, T-Dub said:

 

 

IDK what that means but please don't make her push a sled around your yard, it's uncouth

 

 

 

 

Maybe some tire flipping then?

[Jungletiger]

17 minutes ago, GoBengals said:

 

yea he sucked, im not argueing that, i guess he led in the numbers as you said, but the overall grade takes into account percentages, like if he gave up  51 hurries on 600 snaps and the next guy gave up 50 hurries on 490 snaps, Cappa is going to end with a higher grade. I tend to look at the grades, as the pure numbers dont tell the full story sometimes, BUT, being the worst regardless of snaps is bad news.

 

 

lmgdfao

 

 

 

i think the only other person ive seen use uncooth in passing was my mother.

 

typically describing my own behavior to me.

 

Awesome people use the word uncouth, your moms is cool.

[BBR]

3 hours ago, sparky151 said:

 

Lee was well regarded by Gridiron Grading. They chart players based on college performance and athleticism. Lee scored well on both those metrics. The knock on him is that he's small and not especially strong but after 5 years in college, he might be maxed out already. The folks behind GG are Bengals fans and connected with Bengals media like Goodberry and Rapien. So Lee was probably more highly regarded by Bengals fans than most other team's fans.

 

 

 

My question about his size is....  Is it possible something was misreported from the East/West Shrine Game coverage where it was claimed he was 6'3" tall and only 288 lbs.?  NFL Combine measurements had him larger than that at 6'4" and 301 lbs.  It's possible that he puts on about 15lbs of crappy weight but it always seemed more likely to me that the 288 lbs. thing was a mistake someplace that was then endlessly repeated.

Unless he really was regularly 288 lbs. or less, then he's actually not that much smaller in size than Karras was coming out and slightly more athletic.

Matt Lee:

Height: 6'4" (6035)

Weight: 301 lbs.

Hand Size: 9 1/4 inches

Arm Length: 32 1/8 inches

Wingspan: 75 5/8 inches

40 Yard Dash: 5.03 seconds

20 Yard Shuttle: 4.69 seconds

3-Cone Drill 7.97 seconds

225 lbs. reps: 25

 

Ted Karras:

Height: 6'4" (6036)

Weight: 307 lbs.

Hand Size: 9 1/2 inches

Arm Length: 32 1/2 inches

Wingspan; 77 1/2 inches

40 Yard Dash 5.33 seconds

20 Yard Shuttle: 4.70 seconds

3-Cone Drill 8.15 seconds

225 lbs. reps: 32

 

Lee is clearly, slightly smaller for his overall build (biggest difference is wingspan) but it's really all about that 288 lbs. bit and whether or not that was correct.  So much copy-paste in the draft community, that if it actually was a mistake it would get blown out of proportion.  Either way, the hope is that Matt Lee can add some good weight/strength to his frame while learning behind Karras for a few years before taking the reigns.  He's a longshot but until he actually fails, he's a big chunk of hope and optimism which is easy to root for after so many picks that turned out to be pure shit.