11 hours ago, Homer_Rice said:

You poor, naive, morally challenged sap.

Thanks for opening with this so I know not to bother reading any further.

13 minutes ago, T-Dub said:

Thanks for opening with this so I know not to bother reading any further.

Lol. What a fucking jerk you are. Dish it out but can't take it.

Oh, to add: And you read it, every fucking word. So why lie about it?

4 hours ago, Jamie_B said:

The people who don't understand that bolded part, like to throw around terms like "privilege" especially as it relates to identity, but that they can't understand the bolded part really explains their own economic privilege.

Bingo, Jamie.

Here's the Democratic party establishment for ya:

Coffee Break: Bad Jacketing Katie Porter

2 minutes ago, Homer_Rice said:

Lol. What a fucking jerk you are. Dish it out but can't take it.

What an arrogant fucking egghead you are. Typical "can't we all just get along" hand-wringing NPR tier leftist. I'm sure just a little more appeasement will solve everything.

4 hours ago, Jamie_B said:

The people who don't understand that bolded part, like to throw around terms like "privilege" especially as it relates to identity, but that they can't understand the bolded part really explains their own economic privilege.

Anonymous goon squads are not disappearing people off the streets of US cities based on economic status. This is a white supremacist agenda being enacted.

You really want to sit here and debate the existence of white privilege?

19 minutes ago, Homer_Rice said:

Bingo, Jamie.

Here's the Democratic party establishment for ya:

Coffee Break: Bad Jacketing Katie Porter

To be fair I'm talking about the upper middle class types who seem to only care about that stuff. Those at the top fully understand what they are doing.

You guys really think there's going to be an open & fair election next year, never mind 2028?

9 minutes ago, T-Dub said:

Anonymous goon squads are not disappearing people off the streets of US cities based on economic status. This is a white supremacist agenda being enacted.

You really want to sit here and debate the existence of white privilege?

No, but do you want to debate the manipulation of the anger of people at the bottom in giving them easy answers to complex problems? And do we want to debate the long history of blaming the other in times of crisis that whether that be the immigrant, the Catholic, the jew, or the like?

Or maybe we could debate how you seem to be just as incapable of understanding the nuances of these arguments, and how I did not dismiss identity playing a role in the Trump vote on the whole, but did dismiss it as the critical reason for why we are here and why the police state exists.

Disappearing people off the street is part of that manipulation of people's rightful anger for where they are in their economic situations and puts that blame on people who have nothing to do with it at all. It gives people a tangible enemy that they can identify; it's also a lie, but it's a simple solution to a complex problem. That's what fascists like Trump do, take a complex problem, boil it down to "this black or brown person." these days, or in the past the Catholic or the jew and it gives them cover. Because it's harder to explain to people that the reason they are struggling is because we have had a massive wealth transfer from the bottom to the top, and that that is intentional. Explaining the complexities of that is much more difficult in a society that needs simple answers.

4 minutes ago, T-Dub said:

You guys really think there's going to be an open & fair election next year, never mind 2028?

I dont expect that the current people in power will try to keep power sure. But I'm also not willing to just throw my hands up in the air and say fuck it, I just wont vote.

Plato said it best “The price good men pay for indifference to public affairs is to be ruled by evil men.”

The way this will go down is the way it always goes down. The Trump economic polices are moronic and will crash the economy, its a matter of when not if, best we can do is be prepared with real sustainable answers when it does. That's the only way to take power back from these assholes. So long as people are fed and entertained, they know they can damned well do whatever they like, but the minute the bread runs out or the circus isnt entertaining.... their fucked.

1 minute ago, Jamie_B said:

No, but do you want to debate the manipulation of the anger of people at the bottom in giving them easy answers to complex problems? And do we want to debate the long history of blaming the other in times of crisis that whether that be the immigrant, the Catholic, the jew, or the like?

Of course not, but how far are you willing to excuse that behavior in favor of appeasement?

Or maybe we could debate how you seem to be just as incapable of understanding the nuances of these arguments, and how I did not dismiss identity playing a role in the Trump vote on the whole, but did dismiss it as the critical reason for why we are here and why the police state exists.

We're all objectively worse off now (any lurking multi-billionaires excepted) yet they still support him faithfully - rabidly - why do you think that is?

Our country was founded by white supremacists and built on slave labor. We almost reckoned with it once, then Lincoln was shot & Reconstruction halted. It's a fundamental sickness running through our society that has nothing to do with grocery prices.

2 minutes ago, Jamie_B said:

I dont expect that the current people in power will try to keep power sure. But I'm also not willing to just throw my hands up in the air and say fuck it, I just wont vote.

Uhh.. That wasn't me doing the protest non-vote. Funny how "enlightened centrism" is indistinguishable from "privileged apathy" in practice, eh?

Another question, do you really think his economic policies are moronic? I think it's deliberate market manipulation. It doesn't make any sense as policy, sure, but as insider trading? I don't think it's his policy at all.

1 minute ago, T-Dub said:

Of course not, but how far are you willing to excuse that behavior in favor of appeasement?

We're all objectively worse off now (any lurking multi-billionaires excepted) yet they still support him faithfully - rabidly - why do you think that is?

Our country was founded by white supremacists and built on slave labor. We almost reckoned with it once, then Lincoln was shot & Reconstruction halted. It's a fundamental sickness running through our society that has nothing to do with grocery prices.

I need for you to start with understanding Maslow's Hierarchy of needs. Here

Now, when we talk about this stuff, understand that those who are talking about identity issues, which I do not dismiss, are somewhere between the Safety needs and the Love and Understanding needs, and in a lot of cases Esteem needs. What I am talking about is the people who have Physiological needs. You can not expect those people to give a shit about someone's status or recognition or the like when they need shelter but can't get it because the housing prices are insane or the apartment prices are manipulated by algorithms.

Now I need you to understand Intersectionality as first talked about by a black woman named Kimberlé Crenshaw who included class in these struggles. https://www.cjr.org/language_corner/intersectionality.php

Alot of people these days like to throw around the idea of "being an ally", that's great, I agree we should be fighting together, but as I have said to many people who complain about the current state of affairs. Unless you are including class in your intersectionality, we are not on the same team.... stop punching down.

Just now, T-Dub said:

Another question, do you really think his economic policies are moronic? I think it's deliberate market manipulation. It doesn't make any sense as policy, sure, but as insider trading? I don't think it's his policy at all.

I don't know that I think Trump himself has a clue, but those around him, especially Vance, do and they are evil.

This is the right answer to this stuff.

3 minutes ago, Jamie_B said:

I don't know that I think Trump himself has a clue, but those around him, especially Vance, do and they are evil.

I would guess it's Thiel and a few others like him calling the shots there.

5 minutes ago, Jamie_B said:

I need for you to start with understanding Maslow's Hierarchy of needs. Here

Now, when we talk about this stuff, understand that those who are talking about identity issues, which I do not dismiss, are somewhere between the Safety needs and the Love and Understanding needs, and in a lot of cases Esteem needs. What I am talking about is the people who have Physiological needs. You can not expect those people to give a shit about someone's status or recognition or the link when they need shelter but can't get it because the housing prices are insane or the apartment prices are manipulated by algorithms.

Now I need you to understand Intersectionality as first talked about by a black woman named Kimberlé Crenshaw who included class in these struggles. https://www.cjr.org/language_corner/intersectionality.php

Alot of people these days like to throw around the idea of "being an ally", that's great, I agree we should be fighting together, but as I have said to many people who complain about the current state of affairs. Unless you are including class in your intersectionality, we are not on the same team.... stop punching down.

Very much an esteem issue. White pride is what people turn to when they have nothing else to be proud of in their lives.

Then there's another part of me that thinks if we're willing to accept Trump and his white trash gestapo just because eggs are a little too expensive then maybe we deserve everything that comes with it.

6 minutes ago, T-Dub said:

I would guess it's Thiel and a few others like him calling the shots there.

Very much an esteem issue. White pride is what people turn to when they have nothing else to be proud of in their lives.

Then there's another part of me that thinks if we're willing to accept Trump and his white trash gestapo just because eggs are a little too expensive then maybe we deserve everything that comes with it.

Theiel gets his ideas from Curtis Yarvin. It's all Ayn Rand on steroids and kind of flat-out anti-democratic nonsense. But these people have Vance's ear and they are evil.

Again, the cost of eggs is going to affect whether people can choose between eating or getting insulin in some cases. That's the kind of punching down we should avoid.

Now if you want to say a good fuck you to the Trump voters who complain about that stuff then go out and buy his god damned golden shoes, have at it.

18 minutes ago, Jamie_B said:

This is the right answer to this stuff.

OK, my question here is.. How far are you willing to excuse their behavior? He says "if your neighbor's house was robbed you don't go over and laugh at them". That's great, but what if your neighbor decides to blame you for it and then forms a lynch mob that agrees with them? You're going to empathy and compassion your way out of it as they're tightening the noose around your neck?

Just now, T-Dub said:

OK, my question here is.. How far are you willing to excuse their behavior? He says "if your neighbor's house was robbed you don't go over and laugh at them". That's great, but what if your neighbor decides to blame you for it and then forms a lynch mob that agrees with them? You're going to empathy and compassion your way out of it as they're tightening the noose around your neck?

No, if that happens, you should first be safe and second try to have empathy for where that is coming from and how they are being manipulated and by whom and once you are safe do your best to explain to them how you both have a common enemy and its not me as a black or brown person.

2 minutes ago, Jamie_B said:

Theiel gets his ideas from Curtis Yarvin. It's all Ayn Rand on steroids and kind of flat-out anti-democratic nonsense. But these people have Vance's ear and they are evil.

Again, the cost of eggs is going to affect whether people can choose between eating or getting insulin in some cases. That's the kind of punching down we should avoid.

Now if you want to say a good fuck you to the Trump voters who complain about that stuff then go out and buy his god damned golden shoes, have at it.

How about a "good fuck you" for people saying it's an economic issue when a black man tried to give them affordable healthcare and they lost their fucking minds over it?

I would suggest to you that there is an Obama to Trump pipeline of voters that can and should be targeted for the purpose of trying to get them back.

Just now, T-Dub said:

How about a "good fuck you" for people saying it's an economic issue when a black man tried to give them affordable healthcare and they lost their fucking minds over it?

Again this is the misunderstanding of the complexities of the healthcare system and the decades long propganda war on "government is the problem"

Also, Obamacare is a bailout to the insurance industry and while it may give more people healthcare, its still got alot of problems of its own.

4 minutes ago, Jamie_B said:

No, if that happens, you should first be safe and second try to have empathy for where that is coming from and how they are being manipulated and by whom and once you are safe do your best to explain to them how you both have a common enemy and its not me as a black or brown person.

Right.. When I see a snake outside in the yard, I think that snake is pretty cool really, it's got a right to do its snake thing just as much as I do to do mine. I'm out there weeding or whatever, I'm interfering with the snake's life. I'm going to back off and give the snake room. I am empathetic and willing to accept snake is just being snake. It's not trying to harm me personally.

If, on the other hand, the snake's in the house? I'm going to go get a shovel and it's going to be a bad day for the snake. I'm not trying to reason with it.

My point being, the snake is in the house. Yes it sucks that people are being manipulated into things that harm other people, but they don't get to harm other people regardless of their reasoning. This is confusing the victim with the offender. I have no patience with their excuses when I see what's being carried out in their names.

2 minutes ago, T-Dub said:

Right.. When I see a snake outside in the yard, I think that snake is pretty cool really, it's got a right to do its snake thing just as much as I do to do mine. I'm out there weeding or whatever, I'm interfering with the snake's life. I'm going to back off and give the snake room. I am empathetic and willing to accept snake is just being snake. It's not trying to harm me personally.

If, on the other hand, the snake's in the house? I'm going to go get a shovel and it's going to be a bad day for the snake. I'm not trying to reason with it.

My point being, the snake is in the house. Yes it sucks that people are being manipulated into things that harm other people, but they don't get to harm other people regardless.

I just hope that people recognize the difference between the potential for their physical harm, which they should protect, and the harm of their comforts.

7 minutes ago, Jamie_B said:

Again this is the misunderstanding of the complexities of the healthcare system and the decades long propganda war on "government is the problem"

Also, Obamacare is a bailout to the insurance industry and while it may give more people healthcare, its still got alot of problems of its own.

It's a larger misunderstanding than that.  Obama was a center right candidate at worst, by any objective measure.  This notion of him as some radical leftist is absurd.  All that shit is just a way around admitting that a black man became President and it broke a whole lot of white people's brains.