1 minute ago, Jamie_B said:

I mentioned previously that years ago I had a discussion about all this stuff with regard to inequality, leading to protest, leading to a police state response

The next step if they do try to not respect term limits, is the military holding to their oath to the Constitution and removing him from power physically

If we get to that and he doesnt step down and there are still Generals left that take that oath seriously, then our experiment is over.

I reject entirely the idea that the police state was a response to protesting. The protesting is in response to the police state. They never needed an excuse, that was and is the plan. They lie like they breathe. We don't get to terrorize entire cities and communities then blame them for responding with anger. They're running random people off the road and shooting at them for not being white enough, right now, not in some theoretical if-then case. I don't give a single fuck how many Starbucks windows get broken or how many Waymo cars get torched - there's no justification for that behavior. Zero, none. We can take it back to the George Floyd and BLM protests. Some shit got wrecked yeah, but who showed up dressed for a war? Sure as shit wasn't the protestors. It was the cops and dickless white supremacist militia twerps like Rittenhouse. How much of that abuse do you expect people to suffer quietly?

3 minutes ago, T-Dub said:

I reject entirely the idea that the police state was a response to protesting. The protesting is in response to the police state. They never needed an excuse, that was and is the plan. They lie like they breathe. We don't get to terrorize entire cities and communities then blame them for responding with anger. They're running random people off the road and shooting at them for not being white enough, right now, not in some theoretical if-then case. I don't give a single fuck how many Starbucks windows get broken or how many Waymo cars get torched - there's no justification for that behavior. Zero, none.

Oh, I don't put any blame on the protestors, that is a right that is rightfully being excercised. I'm simply saying that authoritarians don't like that and that the response was preplanned for it, ICE is an extension of their racism and xenophobia, but overall police state started way before that, this stuff was coming since Occupy.

Remember this guy?

Just now, Jamie_B said:

Oh, I don't put any blame on the protestors, that is a right that is rightfully being excercised. I'm simply saying that authoritarians don't like that and that the response was preplanned for it, ICE is an extension of their racism and xenophobia, but overall police state started way before that, this stuff was coming since Occupy.

Remember this guy?

I'm just saying it's not a "response", that's victim-blaming. And it's been coming for a hell of a lot longer than that.

10 minutes ago, T-Dub said:

I'm just saying it's not a "response", that's victim-blaming. And it's been coming for a hell of a lot longer than that.

I think you misunderstand. I'm not blaming the protestors at all; I'm suggesting that those in power already expected the protests and preplanned for them accordingly.

There are some that take a bit more extreme stance on the idea that the entire reason for the existence of police at all is to be the protectors of private property. if we take that idea and juxtapose it with inequality, you can see where I might be going with that...

1 hour ago, Jamie_B said:

I think you misunderstand. I'm not blaming the protestors at all; I'm suggesting that those in power already expected the protests and preplanned for them accordingly.

There are some that take a bit more extreme stance on the idea that the entire reason for the existence of police at all is to be the protectors of private property. if we take that idea and juxtapose it with inequality, you can see where I might be going with that...

Might broaden it to "maintaining the social order" but that often amounts to the same thing. I'm not sure American policing as an institution is redeemable. I think we need some kind of tiered system so the same overworked, likely PTSD-suffering, random armed person isn't expected to enforce traffic laws, respond to a domestic violence call, respond to an armed robbery, take a noise complaint, respond to fender-bender accidents, respond to a multiple-fatality accident, then direct traffic for the fire department, then maybe respond to a mass shooter or instead some autistic kid with a steak knife or pellet gun. Survival instincts are going to mean that person needs to respond to every one of those calls like it's a potential mass shooter, that's just human nature IMO.

That being said, when slavery was the law they enforced slavery. If being left-handed was made illegal they'd start snatching up left-handed people. There are thousands of people still in prison for marijuana offenses committed in places where it's now been legal for a decade. The militarization we've seen over the last 10-20 years reveals the intent.

I'd guess we both agree that most of the crime being committed is the result of poverty. Incarcerating people for profit exposes the sickness of unchecked capitalism.

10 hours ago, T-Dub said:

Might broaden it to "maintaining the social order" but that often amounts to the same thing. I'm not sure American policing as an institution is redeemable. I think we need some kind of tiered system so the same overworked, likely PTSD-suffering, random armed person isn't expected to enforce traffic laws, respond to a domestic violence call, respond to an armed robbery, take a noise complaint, respond to fender-bender accidents, respond to a multiple-fatality accident, then direct traffic for the fire department, then maybe respond to a mass shooter or instead some autistic kid with a steak knife or pellet gun. Survival instincts are going to mean that person needs to respond to every one of those calls like it's a potential mass shooter, that's just human nature IMO.

That being said, when slavery was the law they enforced slavery. If being left-handed was made illegal they'd start snatching up left-handed people. There are thousands of people still in prison for marijuana offenses committed in places where it's now been legal for a decade. The militarization we've seen over the last 10-20 years reveals the intent.

I'd guess we both agree that most of the crime being committed is the result of poverty. Incarcerating people for profit exposes the sickness of unchecked capitalism.

Even though the name made it impossible, the defund the police movement has good ideas with regard to taking money and using it for services that would allow the police to just do police work and allow other organizations to do work that police dont really need to be doing.

8 hours ago, Jamie_B said:

Even though the name made it impossible, the defund the police movement has good ideas with regard to taking money and using it for services that would allow the police to just do police work and allow other organizations to do work that police dont really need to be doing.

The idea of doing anything at all that the police don't like becomes a nonstarter in a police state.

1 hour ago, T-Dub said:

The idea of doing anything at all that the police don't like becomes a nonstarter in a police state.

Yup

Should probably have limits on how long someone can serve as a beat cop or detective etc consecutively, too. No one should do that job for more than a couple of years straight if they want to have a shred of human empathy left.

Instead take those people, give them qualified immunity, then outfit them for a war that mostly exists in the imagination of fear-mongering propaganda outlets with no real enemy to fight since (eg) the cartels aren't actually laying siege to El Paso, and Portland isn't "war-ravaged" and you won't believe what happens next...

What about HIS emails?

20 minutes ago, Jamie_B said:

What about HIS emails?

They can & should prosecute the Clintons too, & Oprah & Gates & Stephen King... No quarter for anyone associated with him after '08. You know, when Acosta let him off and then Trump rewarded him with a cabinet position? Go after the entire list but it obviously starts with King Donny the Diddler. He wasn't just a client which should be plenty bad enough on its own WTFFfff. Then he sends "prosecutors" to make a deal & move JizzLane Maxwell to a country club prison? Fucking preposterous. Undeniable guilt. SYBAU.

What's absolutely shockingly crazy tho.. MTG and Bobo now seem to be the only ones left that are still capable of feeling shame or disgust. Who would've guessed? Those two?! Selling kids to rapists happens to be a pretty god damn clear & solid line for a lot of people, fucking actually, for fuck's sake. I hope they burn the whole disgusting mess to the ground and scatter the ashes, maybe that would start to redeem all the harm they've already done.

2 hours ago, T-Dub said:

What's absolutely shockingly crazy tho.. MTG and Bobo now seem to be the only ones left that are still capable of feeling shame or disgust. Who would've guessed? Those two?!

I know, right? The devil 😈 is ice skating ⛸️ in hell right now.

2 minutes ago, Shebengal said:

I know, right? The devil 😈 is ice skating ⛸️ in hell right now.

Even if it's entirely self-serving their being able to read the tea leaves and see what's coming is more credit than I would've given them. At this rate they'll be Antifa too within 6 weeks.

Epstein's brother said it's not Clinton, also said the tone people are assuming is not correct. Sounds like it was likely an inside joke.

“For the avoidance of doubt, the reference to ‘Bubba’ in this correspondence is not, in any way, a reference to former President Bill Clinton,” the statement continues. “Any attempt to conflate that reference with President Clinton, or to read sweeping implications into them, misrepresents both the purpose and the tone of the original correspondence.”

Still funny as helll though.

4 hours ago, Jamie_B said:

Epstein's brother said it's not Clinton, also said the tone people are assuming is not correct. Sounds like it was likely an inside joke.

“For the avoidance of doubt, the reference to ‘Bubba’ in this correspondence is not, in any way, a reference to former President Bill Clinton,” the statement continues. “Any attempt to conflate that reference with President Clinton, or to read sweeping implications into them, misrepresents both the purpose and the tone of the original correspondence.”

Still funny as helll though.

Sure, I mean, if we can't trust the obvious accomplice brother of a notorious child sex trafficker to billionaires that was murdered in a max security prison with the cameras turned off in order to keep him quiet, well..

Oh wait, no, his word means absolutely nothing. Personally I think it was Ghislaine's horse.

If the files are ever released it will be the redacted version he's had FBI agents scrubbing his name out of for months. Like, everyone knows he's been using the FBI to tamper with evidence of his involvement in a child sex trafficking ring, and apparently that's just fine in USA 2025. We're ok with our rapist President raping kids and selling them to other rapists. Why, he can even send out heavily armed goon squads to grab more kids off the street & sell them too - so long as they aren't white kids.

What a country!

🚽

He and his brother are really the only people who know.

Just now, Jamie_B said:

He and his brother are really the only people who know.

And he's not talking. If his brother's smart he'll say whatever they tell him to say, just like Maxwell.

21 minutes ago, T-Dub said:

And he's not talking. If his brother's smart he'll say whatever they tell him to say, just like Maxwell.

His brother hasn't been charged with anything. Do we think he is a part of this?

3 minutes ago, Jamie_B said:

His brother hasn't been charged with anything. Do we think he is a part of this?

I think from the tone of what I've read he was at least aware. If you know someone is trafficking kids and ignore it that's an accomplice.

6 minutes ago, T-Dub said:

I think from the tone of what I've read he was at least aware. If you know someone is trafficking kids and ignore it that's an accomplice.

I wonder if they are not charging him in order to get what they want from it? Typically, you might see that in cases where they let a lesser criminal not get charged so long as they cooperate to get what they are looking for as far as crimes

3 hours ago, Jamie_B said:

I wonder if they are not charging him in order to get what they want from it? Typically, you might see that in cases where they let a lesser criminal not get charged so long as they cooperate to get what they are looking for as far as crimes

Trump's FBI will pick and choose who to incriminate. The value of all that evidence now decreases by the hour, which was the point. Discredit & accuse. It will all be weaponized yet few if any are likely to face real justice.

Just another facet of the disaster that is letting Trump anywhere near the White House ever again after J6.

What the actual fuck even was this shit? Still seems surreal even now. Bad enough ever, but for this fuckin' guy? 🤡

When put to a vote where they had to attach their names to their vote only one person voted against the release of the Epstine files

Congressman Clay Higgins

Now whether that means these things get released fully is up in the air. It was noted that you cant release the names of people still under investigation, which makes leagal sense, but that Trump starting an investigation into all of it pretty much prevents that. The question would be who would he be investigating.

42 minutes ago, Jamie_B said:

When put to a vote where they had to attach their names to their vote only one person voted against the release of the Epstine files

Congressman Clay Higgins

Now whether that means these things get released fully is up in the air.

How is it "up in the air"? They've very publicly & openly had the FBI & DOJ scrubbing Trump's name out of them. They can vote to release them now because they're "part of an ongoing investigation" so they can't actually do it. Then if & when they finally do, they will be heavily redacted. This is all painfully obvious.

The time to do something about it was just over a year ago. At this point he could let ICE hold toddler auctions on the White House lawn and I'm not convinced anything would happen to him.

1 minute ago, T-Dub said:

How is it "up in the air"? They've very publicly & openly had the FBI & DOJ scrubbing Trump's name out of them. They can vote to release them now because they're "part of an ongoing investigation" so they can't actually do it. Then if & when they finally do, they will be heavily redacted. This is all painfully obvious.

The time to do something about all this was just over a year ago. At this point he could let ICE hold toddler auctions on the White House lawn and I'm not convinced anything would happen.

From what I understand, there are people who know what is in the files that can confirm what has and hanst been "scrubbed"