1 hour ago, sparky151 said:

Certainly but what rate will they have to pay on a loan? Even if it's a 600 mil loan for 30 years, that's 20 mil per year in principle plus at least 30 and probably more like 40 mil in interest. Saying the stadium and adjacent development will pay for itself with various taxes is pretty optimistic. Not the sort of thing to bet the town's solvency on.

Quite true. Then you have places like the Borough of East Rutherford NJ— where the Meadowlands sits. They don’t own or operate the sites—and have no obligation to maintain—but yet are allowed to assess taxes for private operations outside of the stadiums there. Technically it is state-owned land (a hybrid called the New Jersey Sports and Exposition Authority) which has the obligation for upkeep…but the Borough can “tax” other businesses on the property—even though the land by statute is tax-exempt.

They are—and have been—embroiled in litigation for many years. A complete disaster

1 hour ago, Le Tigre said:

Quite true. Then you have places like the Borough of East Rutherford NJ— where the Meadowlands sits. They don’t own or operate the sites—and have no obligation to maintain—but yet are allowed to assess taxes for private operations outside of the stadiums there. Technically it is state-owned land (a hybrid called the New Jersey Sports and Exposition Authority) which has the obligation for upkeep…but the Borough can “tax” other businesses on the property—even though the land by statute is tax-exempt.

They are—and have been—embroiled in litigation for many years. A complete disaster

Doing business in NJ, what can ya do?

Probably charging Jimmy Hoffa's estate rent for his spot under one of the parking lots.

On 4/4/2025 at 3:49 PM, T-Dub said:

I know it's supposed to be a net gain with money spent downtown etc etc, and it probably is.. but I hate the idea of taxpayers paying for a $5B pro sports franchise's stadium. I am also fairly certain that tax revenue could be put to good use elsewhere, instead. Not to get all pinko commie liberal but maybe we invest our public funds in things we want that don't necessarily turn a direct profit? Like, that's why we spend tax money on them instead of them being a business? Example: they could make the Brent Spence a toll bridge instead of funding upkeep with tax money, but which would you prefer?

 

Just saying.. Why does the National Football League need Hamilton County, Ohio to buy them anything? Do we really need to compare their annual incomes? It's corporate welfare.

i didnt read much of this thread of the months, so i started from scratch is my give a shit level has been low as we all knew it would get worked out.

As for this, i would be all in, BUT funds arent going to needs no matter what, toll bridge, privately paid stadium, all that, its not going to go to things of need, ever, no matter what, politicians are criminals, we have a toll road here in colorado, C470/E470, it was promoted as a toll road to build it, then after X profit was acquired, it would turn free and be handed over to the state for free, like it cost 50mil to build and they get money back and profit 150million, then hand it over.

in the meantime, the gave power of the toll company to block vehicle registration if you had overdue tolls, they built toll booths then switched to license plate scans, added that onto the gap until the profit level, not accounting for the saved labor, so they net gained another 20 million profit in there. the time came for it to become free, the politicians played the card of "the budget is tight, taking on that maintenance will be a burden" and changed the deal not only to keep it a toll, raised the tolls, AND the section that was free, they added "express" lanes to it, instead of just expanding it, and made those tolls.

counting on someone to do the right thing in business involving politics is a zero change porposition.

i am as liberal as probably anyone in here. I have seen with my own eyes for too long that politicians value nothing involving the right thing to do, they dont value honestly, and they do not value human lives.

keeping power and obtaining money is all that matters.

Life is about leverage, whether you are a good guy or a bad guy, leverage is what you have, your job, your behaviors, what you own, how you act. is all based on leverage.

the bengals may be the most ethical behaving nfl franchise in history. but are called cheap and greedy, its like no one has ever seen another franchise operate, how they treat staff, players, the cities, etc.

On 4/11/2025 at 9:53 AM, sparky151 said:

Teams don't share revenues with the league for club seats so more of those would pump up the team's bottom line.

 

not enough to even matter in a conversation about stadium funding. and if i recall isnt it based on a baseline revenue anything ABOVE said revenue isnt reported? its not like club seating is a free pocket stuff for teams. I think the same is for demand-based seat prices, team shared the season ticket price, but those single game or MNF game tickets that are suddently 4x the cost.. i think they all pocket that as well. This is why they tried to take away my season tickets, keep them, and charge tons more..

but in the end as far as hundreds of millions go, its pocket lint.

if they bump to 10,000 club sats from 7600, even if those are $150 more per seat. thats what, a gain of... $360,000 x 8 = $2.9mil a year...lol

its not much in the grand scheme of things.. will that even cover a wifi upgrade?

On 4/22/2025 at 8:16 PM, Inigo Montoya said:

The Rams relocation led to a lawsuit with St. Louis, which ended with a $790 million settlement in 2021.  Then there’s the relocation fees, which most recently cost the Rams/Chargers $645 million and the Raiders $378 million in 2017.  It’s very costly to move a team and I don’t see the Brown family having much of an appetite to pony up that kind of coin, even if they can land a sweetheart stadium deal from another city.  

 

they already turned down moving to baltimore back in the day, so relocation fees arent going to be the factor, they are a cincinnati family and want to remain so. something they get no credit for, ever.

2 hours ago, GoBengals said:

i didnt read much of this thread of the months, so i started from scratch is my give a shit level has been low as we all knew it would get worked out.

As for this, i would be all in, BUT funds arent going to needs no matter what, toll bridge, privately paid stadium, all that, its not going to go to things of need, ever, no matter what, politicians are criminals, we have a toll road here in colorado, C470/E470, it was promoted as a toll road to build it, then after X profit was acquired, it would turn free and be handed over to the state for free, like it cost 50mil to build and they get money back and profit 150million, then hand it over.

in the meantime, the gave power of the toll company to block vehicle registration if you had overdue tolls, they built toll booths then switched to license plate scans, added that onto the gap until the profit level, not accounting for the saved labor, so they net gained another 20 million profit in there. the time came for it to become free, the politicians played the card of "the budget is tight, taking on that maintenance will be a burden" and changed the deal not only to keep it a toll, raised the tolls, AND the section that was free, they added "express" lanes to it, instead of just expanding it, and made those tolls.

counting on someone to do the right thing in business involving politics is a zero change porposition.

i am as liberal as probably anyone in here. I have seen with my own eyes for too long that politicians value nothing involving the right thing to do, they dont value honestly, and they do not value human lives.

keeping power and obtaining money is all that matters.

Life is about leverage, whether you are a good guy or a bad guy, leverage is what you have, your job, your behaviors, what you own, how you act. is all based on leverage.

the bengals may be the most ethical behaving nfl franchise in history. but are called cheap and greedy, its like no one has ever seen another franchise operate, how they treat staff, players, the cities, etc.

Father Brown may in fact be Saint Michael of the Ohio & our politicians may squander the money elsewhere. Neither of these possibilities are great arguments for public funds buying the Bengals new Jumbo-Trons and seat warmers.

Were it put to a vote & were I still a resident of the county or state, I would save that money and take my chances. No guarantee it goes to a better cause, but "not NFL stadium improvements" is a very low bar to get over.

1 minute ago, T-Dub said:

Father Brown may in fact be Saint Michael of the Ohio & our politicians may squander the money elsewhere. Neither of these possibilities are great arguments for public funds buying the Bengals new Jumbo-Trons and seat warmers.

yea the 110,000 jobs and 50mil per game revenue impact is pretty pointless.

cities dont need jobs OR revenue.. i remember than from Econ class.

22 minutes ago, GoBengals said:

yea the 110,000 jobs and 50mil per game revenue impact is pretty pointless.

cities dont need jobs OR revenue.. i remember than from Econ class.

Which are entirely dependent on new seat warmers, I suppose.

Got a source for those numbers? I know I've read there's some skepticism about the tremendous economic benefits flowing from a grand total of 8 home games per year.

22 hours ago, GoBengals said:

i didnt read much of this thread of the months, so i started from scratch is my give a shit level has been low as we all knew it would get worked out.

As for this, i would be all in, BUT funds arent going to needs no matter what, toll bridge, privately paid stadium, all that, its not going to go to things of need, ever, no matter what, politicians are criminals, we have a toll road here in colorado, C470/E470, it was promoted as a toll road to build it, then after X profit was acquired, it would turn free and be handed over to the state for free, like it cost 50mil to build and they get money back and profit 150million, then hand it over.

in the meantime, the gave power of the toll company to block vehicle registration if you had overdue tolls, they built toll booths then switched to license plate scans, added that onto the gap until the profit level, not accounting for the saved labor, so they net gained another 20 million profit in there. the time came for it to become free, the politicians played the card of "the budget is tight, taking on that maintenance will be a burden" and changed the deal not only to keep it a toll, raised the tolls, AND the section that was free, they added "express" lanes to it, instead of just expanding it, and made those tolls.

counting on someone to do the right thing in business involving politics is a zero change porposition.

i am as liberal as probably anyone in here. I have seen with my own eyes for too long that politicians value nothing involving the right thing to do, they dont value honestly, and they do not value human lives.

keeping power and obtaining money is all that matters.

Life is about leverage, whether you are a good guy or a bad guy, leverage is what you have, your job, your behaviors, what you own, how you act. is all based on leverage.

the bengals may be the most ethical behaving nfl franchise in history. but are called cheap and greedy, its like no one has ever seen another franchise operate, how they treat staff, players, the cities, etc.

We had something similar in Ohio with the turnpike. Bonds were issued with a 40 year duration and the turnpike was supposed to be turned over to the state for free when they were paid off. Over time the turnpike was profitable and became a patronage job for politicians. So when the bonds were almost due, the turnpike commission refinanced them to a longer period to keep the gravy train going.

On 6/29/2025 at 3:24 PM, GoBengals said:

they already turned down moving to baltimore back in the day, so relocation fees arent going to be the factor, they are a cincinnati family and want to remain so. something they get no credit for, ever.

It’s not the 90’s anymore and the other owners are not going to allow the team to be moved for free. Those relocation fees are paid directly to the other clubs so the Bengals themselves got a nice pay day when the Rams, Chargers, and Raiders moved. No chance they were ever going to return the favor.

1 hour ago, Inigo Montoya said:

Well this

It’s not the 90’s anymore and the other owners are not going to allow the team to be moved for free. Those relocation fees are paid directly to the other clubs so the Bengals themselves got a nice pay day when the Rams, Chargers, and Raiders moved. No chance they were ever going to return the favor.

Minor miracle that Cincinnati, Ohio still has an NFL team at all, when you think about all the cities that don't.

If they were ever to leave for some reason it's probably not coming back.

9 hours ago, T-Dub said:

Minor miracle that Cincinnati, Ohio still has an NFL team at all, when you think about all the cities that don't.

If they were ever to leave for some reason it's probably not coming back.

The Bengals—and Cincinnati—were the beneficiaries of a gap in the space/time continuum, never to be repeated. And even that gap, was so favorable that Marty and Doc would never find it again.

A bit of history that few remember is that—back in those AFL-NFL merger discussion years—the AFL was deciding the city for its 1968 expansion. It came down to Seattle (with its well-funded group and plans for the eventual Kingdome), and Cincinnati. Because of PB’s involvement—and his connection to the old-timers group at the top of the AFL pyramid (plus some “input” from the NFL old timer moguls), Cincinnati was granted the franchise. That Riverfront plans were further along didn’t hurt either.

The AFL wasn’t guaranteed in the earlier mid-60’s negotiations that all of its franchises would be granted inclusion in the merger. The Bengals would have been last-in-first-out in that case. Riverfront was still 3-4 years away.

But, the final agreement was for all-in as to the AFL teams (along with the “gift” of receiving the real Browns and Stealers in realignment)

Lose the Bengals now…and this luck would never come to pass again. Ever.

Cleveland Browns get their $600M for new stadium from the state and the Modell Law changed to be able to leave Cuyahoga county (while making it harder to leave the state).

https://www.news5cleveland.com/news/politics/ohio-politics/ohio-gov-mike-dewine-signs-budget-giving-600m-to-cleveland-browns-and-tax-cut-to-wealthy

5 hours ago, Dautcom08 said:

Cleveland Browns get their $600M for new stadium from the state and the Modell Law changed to be able to leave Cuyahoga county (while making it harder to leave the state).

https://www.news5cleveland.com/news/politics/ohio-politics/ohio-gov-mike-dewine-signs-budget-giving-600m-to-cleveland-browns-and-tax-cut-to-wealthy

It was dumb on the part of the county to think that the Modell law would block a move from the city to the suburbs. However, the Haslams are still short on funding even with the $600 million from the state since Cleveland and Cuyahoga County aren’t going to chip in anything. The Browns will need the league to help most likely.

Brook Park is in Cuyahoga County.

15 hours ago, Le Tigre said:

Brook Park is in Cuyahoga County.

Also a suburb of Cleveland. Either way the Browns aren’t getting the local government to help pay for their stadium.

3 hours ago, Inigo Montoya said:

Also a suburb of Cleveland. Either way the Browns aren’t getting the local government to help pay for their stadium.

Very much correct.

10 hours ago, Inigo Montoya said:

Also a suburb of Cleveland. Either way the Browns aren’t getting the local government to help pay for their stadium.

Yeah, the new stadium location is 12 miles from the current stadium and about a mile outside the Cleveland city limits.

The stadium plan hinges on revenue from a TIF scheme for the site by the Brook Park city government. We'll see how they manage to swing it. Supposedly Brook Park is kicking in 600 mil themselves, covered by the TIF. That's a lot of wishful thinking.

On 7/1/2025 at 11:54 AM, Dautcom08 said:

Cleveland Browns get their $600M for new stadium from the state and the Modell Law changed to be able to leave Cuyahoga county (while making it harder to leave the state).

https://www.news5cleveland.com/news/politics/ohio-politics/ohio-gov-mike-dewine-signs-budget-giving-600m-to-cleveland-browns-and-tax-cut-to-wealthy

While cutting funding for schools and libraries. But who needs an educated populace, right? 😡

The Governor line-item vetoed 67 parts of the budget. 7 dealt with school funding and other education-related give-backs. Unless overrides occur—doubtful at best—the budget will have little to no impact on school funding.

The legislature's leaders seem to be planning a short summer session to override vetos. The budget bill passed with super majorities, though individual provisions might be less popular.

On 6/28/2025 at 12:09 AM, T-Dub said:

Doing business in NJ, what can ya do?

Probably charging Jimmy Hoffa's estate rent for his spot under one of the parking lots.

Hoffa is stuffed in a 55 gallon steel barrel somewhere near Newark Airport. Jimmy 3 Fingers Milano told me so.

10 minutes ago, SF2 said:

Hoffa is stuffed in a 55 gallon steel barrel somewhere near Newark Airport. Jimmy 3 Fingers Milano told me so.

I'm inclined to believe Frank Sheeran's account that he was stuffed in an incinerator somewhere outside Detroit, even if Sheeran wasn't actually the one that shot him. Making a former friend pull the trigger as a loyalty test does sound like their kind of logic, though.

5 minutes ago, T-Dub said:

I'm inclined to believe Frank Sheeran's account that he was stuffed in an incinerator somewhere outside Detroit, even if Sheeran wasn't actually the one that shot him. Making a former friend pull the trigger as a loyalty test does sound like their kind of logic, though.

Yeah, it was a classic mob hit. Hoffa was trying to get back into a leadership position in the Teamsters but the Mob and most of the Teamster leadership did not want the visibility he brought.

RFK did everything he could to lock him up in the past to include a public feud. Mafia likes things to be quiet.