8 hours ago, T-Dub said:

That circa-2005 line of Jones-Steinbach-Braham-Williams-Anderson was pretty damned good. Really good chance those dudes have a ring if Kimo doesn't get the code red order on Palmer. OL has been mostly downhill since then.

Not to frighten anyone but that's been a long ass time ago now.

Those were quite the parade of "stars" I refer to above. Yet, we still weren't consistent year after year. It would take a seasoned consistent coach along with one or two actual blue chips in the trenches.

Random thoughts...

Maybe some posters will remember the great debate of drafting Sewell or Chase. "The outstanding WR will be able to help get rid of the ball faster which negates the effect an OT will give." (paraphrased loosely). Both picks performed brilliantly but one of them did an outstanding job keeping their QB upright. Do we need to reevaluate our thought process regarding WR vs OT capabilities?

The Bengal's even brought in one of the stars from the Munoz era. Jim McNally the consultant was a great coach for that time period, not so much for this day and age.

On 8/6/2025 at 5:26 PM, T-Dub said:

He's one of the most-hit QBs in the NFL over the span of his career so far, and the OL consistently ranked near the bottom. Olympic-level mental gymnastics just to avoid admitting that despite being a great QB a bad OL is holding him back.

I dont think at least the guards are very good and Ted is average, but man I cant even think of what Joe could do, when he was playing at MVP levels last year, if the interior was good.

43 minutes ago, Jamie_B said:

I dont think at least the guards are very good and Ted is average, but man I cant even think of what Joe could do, when he was playing at MVP levels last year, if the interior was good.

Every year it gets harder to convince myself he wouldn't have at least one ring by now if he played for a different franchise. Like convincing ourselves Lucas Patrick was the best FA they could get - smells like Copium in here. I keep hoping (coping) that they'll put a good OL in front of him along with an average defense before he hangs it up. Sky's the limit if that ever happens.

2 minutes ago, T-Dub said:

Every year it gets harder to convince myself he wouldn't have at least one ring by now if he played for a different franchise. Like convincing ourselves Lucas Patrick was the best FA they could get - smells like Copium in here. I keep hoping (coping) that they'll put a good OL in front of him along with an average defense before he hangs it up. Sky's the limit if that ever happens.

I like Mimms I think he is going to be really good if his hand stays ok. I think OBJ hasn't played to the level he is capable of or has played in the past here but he was coming on late last year before he got hurt, hopefully he comes back and plays at that level again. I think Ted is solid but not great, I think I have hope in the backups we have at center for the future, this rookie guard we got played well. Right guard is concerning for sure, depth is concerning as well. I think having a complete at least solid Oline is a right guard away which likely means next year.

Some of this is on how we play the game though, its not Joe holding onto the ball as much as its that he likes to play shotgun and spread so he can diagnose the defense and pick it apart. I think it would benefit him to learn now to do that from under center, so we can get more play action so that defenses have to pause for even one second.

I have nothing really to base this on other than he was the assistant to who IMO is the best Oline coach in the league, but I think we may have something with Scott Peters. I don't think we've seen any of our Oline coaches working with guys on their technique, Im encouraged by that.

The TL;DR

This is mostly Oline talent

The scheme may help Joe diagnose plays, but it hurts the Oline's ability to block.

Joe could help them by getting better at diagnosing at the line instead of in shotgun.

If Joe holds on to the ball to make plays I'm ok with that, its on him to know when to do that and when not

Yeah, that's the frustrating part. Joe processes quickly, he could be effective in a play action scheme if the line holds up. With Chase and Higgins out wide we won't see heavy boxes much so we should be able to run effectively and make defenses choose their poison. But we cheap out on the interior O-line. If Fairchild sprains his knee and misses 4 weeks, we'd have problems. We don't have much depth, apart from Ford. Rivers looked bad on Thursday. Patrick looked bad. Lee and McLaughlin are hurt.

If Patrick were the backup center, Rivers was OT4 and Ford was OG4, we'd be in better shape. But if we're starting those guys, we're hurting.

6 hours ago, sparky151 said:

Yeah, that's the frustrating part. Joe processes quickly, he could be effective in a play action scheme if the line holds up. With Chase and Higgins out wide we won't see heavy boxes much so we should be able to run effectively and make defenses choose their poison. But we cheap out on the interior O-line. If Fairchild sprains his knee and misses 4 weeks, we'd have problems. We don't have much depth, apart from Ford. Rivers looked bad on Thursday. Patrick looked bad. Lee and McLaughlin are hurt.

If Patrick were the backup center, Rivers was OT4 and Ford was OG4, we'd be in better shape. But if we're starting those guys, we're hurting.

Ford should be starting over Patrick, but Ford should really not be starting. Rivers should probably not make the 53 at all.

51 minutes ago, T-Dub said:

Ford should be starting over Patrick, but Ford should really not be starting. Rivers should probably not make the 53 at all.

Absolutely Rivers should make the 53 man roster. He has quite a bit of talent, it's just finding the best role for him. Most NFL scouts thought he was better suited to play guard anyway.

My question: Are they really going to pay Volson $2,600,000 to be a backup guard? I'm not even sure Patrick will make that much this year, and he figures to be the starter at RG. Pretty sure he isn't going to overtake Fairchild to start at LG.

23 minutes ago, dex said:

Absolutely Rivers should make the 53 man roster. He has quite a bit of talent, it's just finding the best role for him. Most NFL scouts thought he was better suited to play guard anyway.

My question: Are they really going to pay Volson $2,600,000 to be a backup guard? I'm not even sure Patrick will make that much this year, and he figures to be the starter at RG. Pretty sure he isn't going to overtake Fairchild to start at LG.

I thought they'd moved Rivers already and he'd been stinking it up regardless. If he can not be a liability at guard that'd be great because even if Patrick isn't a disaster his odds of playing the entire season are slim.

A backup OL is almost certain to get some starts in a 17+ game season and we don't have a single one that's healthy right now and trustworthy.

On 8/10/2025 at 7:24 PM, T-Dub said:

Ford should be starting over Patrick, but Ford should really not be starting. Rivers should probably not make the 53 at all.

You're Delusional!!! 😂😂😂😂😂😂

Also saw that Scherff is retired. Dalton Risner, come on down. Volson is getting some reps at center too.

I think Ford should start at RG - and while I don’t like him at T, if one gets hurt, Ford is also the best backup T. Which is saying something (and it’s not good). I think Rivers can be a capable G… he’s big and he’s a good athlete for the position, but he just struggles in space in pass pro at T.

Wish Matt Lee hadn’t been hurt - between him and Seth McLaughlin, they might’ve had a shot at significant G or C snaps. Karras can, and has played G elsewhere, so if one of the others showed out, maybe they could start at C. I don’t see it happening now… and on the street, Risner looks like the most “ready now” piece. Something seems off there, though… young guy, started in Denver and they didn’t re-sign him, other teams are in rough shape at G and he hasn’t even gotten a shot somewhere?

well i did it myself...

This is sorted in order or most sacked by attempt, superbowl champion jalen hurts is the second most sacked QB in the nfl per passing attempt.

Joe burrow is 16th.

so the bengals o-line is performing at a better rate of sacks per opportunity than 15 teams offensive lines.

this goes to my point that there arent that many good linemen in the nfl. everyones lines suck,

anyone watch the bills to see what they were doing with allen and that offense for his numbers? fast throws? moving him around out of the pocket? that data is insane.. (thats what denver did with bo nix, didnt allow thinking, 1-2 looks and run aor ditch it..)

people continue to misconstrue my points, and make nonsensical comments about them as if i had entirely different meanings.

but why is the eagles flawless amazing grea tline giving up the second most sacks per attempt int he entire nfl?

PFF data is flawed, but it typically gives a good view at whats going on with enough datapoints.

its the best guide we have to go on in many instances.

is that 8 playoff teams i see with a qb getting sacked more per attempt than joe?

we obviously need to keep improving the line the best we can.. but can we all stop acting like 31 teams have great lines and the bengals" jUsT CANt FiGuRE iT oUt" no one can..

10 hours ago, GoBengals said:

anyone watch the bills to see what they were doing with allen and that offense for his numbers? fast throws? moving him around out of the pocket? that data is insane.. (thats what denver did with bo nix, didnt allow thinking, 1-2 looks and run aor ditch it..)

Data to back it up. Allen top 8 in checkdowns. Even with Baker leading the pack in checkdowns here, Burrow ranks better on the sack/attempt rank.

1 hour ago, Dautcom08 said:

Data to back it up. Allen top 8 in checkdowns. Even with Baker leading the pack in checkdowns here, Burrow ranks better on the sack/attempt rank.

Burrow isn't among the top 12 in checkdowns, but that's something that Dan Pitcher absolutely intends to change. It isn't enough for Burrow to throw a pass near the line of scrimmage, the receiver needs to be able to get yards after the catch for it to be a positive play. The Bengals were only ranked 14th in the NFL in receiving yards by RBs last season. Pitcher wants them in the top 5 this season. That's why the Bengals want to turn Chase Brown into their version of Jahmyr Gibbs...Detroit was first in RB receiving yards. It isn't just Brown, both Perine and Brooks are also good receivers who can excell in pass pro and break tackles. 51% of Noah Fant's receiving yards have come after the catch. Fant is another great checkdown option near the line of scrimmage. That only works well with good YAC numbers.

All of this stuff is designed to both make 1st downs easier to obtain and keep Burrow from getting hit so much. The majority of NFL sacks come on 3rd downs rather than 1st and 2nd, but the Bengals have suffered a much higher percentage of their sacks on 3rd down compared to the rest of the league. When talking about the team sacks Burrow supporters talk about how quick he releases the ball (they are right...at last on 1st/2nd downs) while Burrow critics claim many of his sacks come because he holds on to the ball too long (but only on 3rd-and-long where he's of course trying to convert).

The big point of emphasis this year isn't more long throws over the top - defenses against Cincinnati want to take this away first. What the Bengals want to do is get more yardage on 1st and 2nd downs via north-and-south rush plays and checkdown passes with YAC so that 3rd downs become much easier to convert. With the added plus of Burrow getting hit far less than if he has to convert a 3rd and long.

Dehner piece suggesting 3 moves the team should make.

First is trading for Patriots backup guard Cole Strange. Peters coached him last year so should know if he's a good fit or not.

https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/6554507/2025/08/15/bengals-roster-improvement-hendrickson-simmons/

Also suggests signing Justin Simmons and getting the deal with Trey done now instead of waiting longer.

Rapien has been making the case for the Bengals signing guard Shaq Mason. I haven't seen anyone else agreeing that would be a good move. Risner is clearly better than Mason.

3 hours ago, sparky151 said:

Dehner piece suggesting 3 moves the team should make.

First is trading for Patriots backup guard Cole Strange. Peters coached him last year so should know if he's a good fit or not.

https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/6554507/2025/08/15/bengals-roster-improvement-hendrickson-simmons/

Also suggests signing Justin Simmons and getting the deal with Trey done now instead of waiting longer.

Rapien has been making the case for the Bengals signing guard Shaq Mason. I haven't seen anyone else agreeing that would be a good move. Risner is clearly better than Mason.

There's got to be a better option than Patrick but maybe not for a tick above vet minimum.

They may not be able to "just go down to Walmart" but if Walmart did sell OL? They would look a lot like Lucas Patrick.

Have they tried Costco?

😢 we could have fixed both guards in the draft

27 minutes ago, BlackJesus said:

😢 we could have fixed both guards in the draft

The thought of Joe lining up behind 2 rookie guards makes me nervous, but then I look at what we've got instead and it's hard to argue. Anywhere in the first 3-4 rounds probably would've been an upgrade. I mean at this point I'm hoping for a late UDFA or waiver pick-up. May as well roll the dice instead of carrying dudes on the 53 we already know for a fact can't do the job.

Supposedly the Raiders are open to trading Jackson Powers-Johnson. He's a G/C who they drafted in the 2nd round last year and had a good rookie year. But is said to not be a good fit with Chip Kelly's scheme. He'd be a massive upgrade over Patrick and could succeed Karras if Lee or McLaughlin don't work out.

In one of the last episodes in that Netflix QB series , they showed Joe sitting at home watching a game (Lions or Eagles?).

After a nice running play he commented that the team had a good running game which opens up the passing game.

So a bit of our pass heavy play calling doesn’t with Zac and Joe.

2 hours ago, I_C_Deadpeople said:

In one of the last episodes in that Netflix QB series , they showed Joe sitting at home watching a game (Lions or Eagles?).

After a nice running play he commented that the team had a good running game which opens up the passing game.

So a bit of our pass heavy play calling doesn’t with Zac and Joe.

Bagging the outside zone rushing scheme finally with Pollack being gone is going to do wonders for this rushing attack.

2 hours ago, I_C_Deadpeople said:

In one of the last episodes in that Netflix QB series , they showed Joe sitting at home watching a game (Lions or Eagles?).

After a nice running play he commented that the team had a good running game which opens up the passing game.

So a bit of our pass heavy play calling doesn’t with Zac and Joe.

Long-standing question of how often he is choosing to audible out of runs. No answer but it'd be nice if he did trust a hand-off to not get blown up in the backfield.

Jackson Powers Johnson and Cole Strange both appear to be primarily centers and then possibly left guards while being backup maybes at RG. How many of those guys do we need? We would have Ted Karras, Lucas Patrick, Matt Lee, Seth McLaughlin and Cole Strange / Jackson Powers Johnson. It's getting a little late to sort out that kind of scrum unless there are some injuries.

They need to find their next Bobbie Williams at RG. The question is, will there be someone that gets released that they can scoop up to fill that spot as a FA? Especially with possible needs at safety, defensive end, and corner back.

here's a point all can agree on
the longer the offense is on the field
the less the defense is on the field
the better the running game the more time is used ,
the less time the defense has to suck
the more you protect joe burrow from being hit
the less plays the defense has to screw up
the best defense in the league is having Burrow and the offense on the field
so to say the bengals defense sucks , also means the offense isnt doing what they could to make it not suck so much.
and looking up the stats, lol the offense and defense played about the same amount of plays . cin- 1080 , def 1088
so clean up the ol and the running game , and the defense will look better
get better DTs and cover the rbs and TEs for gods sake