52 minutes ago, sparky151 said:

Hard to make the bar much lower than that.

So you’re saying he still sucks?

8 hours ago, spicoli said:

I think expectations are a little out of control here. He doesn’t have to get 12 sacks a year in order to not be a reach.

Well, "Stewart earned a 41.0 PFF overall grade, fueled by a 56.0 PFF pass-rush grade and an abysmal 29.3 PFF run-defense grade." He had 5 solo tackles this season. I expect a first round player playing on the defensive line to be able to play a little run defense? Is it just me? He was probably the least productive 1st round pick or certainly close. So my expectations were to not to suck like he did. He got himself so out of position so many times it was almost comical sometimes.

Let's ask what Shemar Stewart's trade value is this offseason. What's the best pick he would fetch in trade? I'd guess 4th rounder maybe from a traits obsessed team or 6th from a team that grades the tape.

Would anyone argue that he's worth more in trade then Hendrickson, who is older and much more expensive but also a better player?

17 minutes ago, SF2 said:

Well, "Stewart earned a 41.0 PFF overall grade, fueled by a 56.0 PFF pass-rush grade and an abysmal 29.3 PFF run-defense grade." He had 5 solo tackles this season. I expect a first round player playing on the defensive line to be able to play a little run defense? Is it just me? He was probably the least productive 1st round pick or certainly close. So my expectations were to not to suck like he did. He got himself so out of position so many times it was almost comical sometimes.

C’mon man, he played in less than half the games due to injury. We still have no idea what we’ve got and you know it.

3 minutes ago, sparky151 said:

Let's ask what Shemar Stewart's trade value is this offseason. What's the best pick he would fetch in trade? I'd guess 4th rounder maybe from a traits obsessed team or 6th from a team that grades the tape.

Would anyone argue that he's worth more in trade then Hendrickson, who is older and much more expensive but also a better player?

Lmao the kid has played in parts of 8 games as a pro. This is ridiculous.

Lmao the kid has played in parts of 8 games as a pro. This is ridiculous.

It's not ridiculous, the tape don't lie. Darnell Wright made the pro bowl on the strength of his obliteration of Stewart.

Stewart was a mid-first round pick. What do you think his trade value is and which teams would pay it?

Just now, sparky151 said:

It's not ridiculous, the tape don't lie. Darnell Wright made the pro bowl on the strength of his obliteration of Stewart.

Stewart was a mid-first round pick. What do you think his trade value is and which teams would pay it?

His trade value is incomplete.

He didn’t play enough snaps to garner any trade value.

Why can’t we just wait and see what happens 🤷‍♂️

His trade value is incomplete.

He didn’t play enough snaps to garner any trade value.

Why can’t we just wait and see what happens 🤷‍♂️

So you agree he doesn't have much trade value? I'm not saying the team should or will trade him but his distinct lack of trade value makes clear he was a wasted pick. If you can't get impact from your first round players early in their career (perhaps QBs excepted), they aren't living up to the team's expectations for them.

The pablum we heard from the media at training camp was about how Stewart was so disruptive. Then the games that actually count started and he basically disappeared. He got 1 sack in 2025 which is 1 more than Murphy had in 2024. But 5 tackles in 8 games isn't much and he frequently ran himself out of the play, ie he blocked himself and let the offensive player assigned to block him double up on a team mate.

11 minutes ago, sparky151 said:

So you agree he doesn't have much trade value? I'm not saying the team should or will trade him but his distinct lack of trade value makes clear he was a wasted pick. If you can't get impact from your first round players early in their career (perhaps QBs excepted), they aren't living up to the team's expectations for them.

The pablum we heard from the media at training camp was about how Stewart was so disruptive. Then the games that actually count started and he basically disappeared. He got 1 sack in 2025 which is 1 more than Murphy had in 2024. But 5 tackles in 8 games isn't much and he frequently ran himself out of the play, ie he blocked himself and let the offensive player assigned to block him double up on a team mate.

How in the hell does pieces of 8 games equate to a wasted pick lol?

You hate him because Mike Brown drafted him.

Personally I don't hate Stewart at all & think he may be a really good DE.. 2-3 years from now.

What I hate is drafting a project like that during what should be a (rapidly closing) Super Bowl window. They needed immediate, big-time defensive help. Not "potential". I hate the lack of urgency. I hate that they're trying to sell he & Murphy as starters based on a few halfway decent games against dogshit opponents. Hate them trying to gas up players that everyone knows are bad. Hate the arrogant messaging where the fans are too stupid to recognize their Tremendous Minds after a losing season. Hate how their excuses are wearing thin.

Stewart will probably be alright though, one day. Good for him.

I mean what else can you do other than root for the kid? He didn’t have any control over where he ended up at 🤷‍♂️

54 minutes ago, spicoli said:

After one year? No, I don’t believe that.

If he goes out in year two and plays in every game and produces say 6-8 sacks and holds up well in the run game, does that mean he was a reach?

No.

1 hour ago, spicoli said:

Lmao the kid has played in parts of 8 games as a pro. This is ridiculous.

10 hours ago, spicoli said:

I mean what else can you do other than root for the kid? He didn’t have any control over where he ended up at 🤷‍♂️

He has the physical tools.

The whole fiasco about signing was Katy being cheap.

He lost a few days in camp for it.

He was injured twice that affected his play and reps.

He was in bad need of technical refinements.

With his dismal rook season out of the way along with more training he should be ready to elevate his play.

He's not strict pass rusher like Trey was or Murphy is now

Hes filling the spot Hubbard left as the edge defender on the power side.

9 minutes ago, claptonrocks said:

He was in bad need of technical refinements.

That's putting it nicely.

He plays like the Tasmanian Devil, just runs in and tries to fuck things up. He don't have much technique to him at all, it's why he keeps losing against the guys he goes up against now that he is at the NFL where everyone is good and you cant just rely on your physical traits.

I would really like to see him take responsibility himself and go outside of his normal coaching we are giving him to get some specialized training like you see with alot of guys at this level. It could really help him take the next step.

44 minutes ago, Jamie_B said:

That's putting it nicely.

He plays like the Tasmanian Devil, just runs in and tries to fuck things up. He don't have much technique to him at all, it's why he keeps losing against the guys he goes up against now that he is at the NFL where everyone is good and you cant just rely on your physical traits.

I would really like to see him take responsibility himself and go outside of his normal coaching we are giving him to get some specialized training like you see with alot of guys at this level. It could really help him take the next step.

45 minutes ago, Jamie_B said:

That's putting it nicely.

He plays like the Tasmanian Devil, just runs in and tries to fuck things up. He don't have much technique to him at all, it's why he keeps losing against the guys he goes up against now that he is at the NFL where everyone is good and you cant just rely on your physical traits.

I would really like to see him take responsibility himself and go outside of his normal coaching we are giving him to get some specialized training like you see with alot of guys at this level. It could really help him take the next step.

I look for improvement this coming season.

Whether he gets outside help is unknown

but would definitely help.

1 minute ago, claptonrocks said:

I look for improvement this coming season.

Whether he gets outside help is unknown

but would definitely help.

I mean I hope so, we don't need it to take 3 years like it took Myles Murphy, we need him contributing now.

1 hour ago, Jamie_B said:

I mean I hope so, we don't need it to take 3 years like it took Myles Murphy, we need him contributing now.

Agree .

Oline guru Duke Manyweather has a camp for precise techniques.

Ill look up to see if theirs a similar camp somewhere for Dlinemen

17 hours ago, spicoli said:

How in the hell does pieces of 8 games equate to a wasted pick lol?

You hate him because Mike Brown drafted him.

That doesn't make any sense. 8 games is enough to show he belongs in the NFL. What he showed this past season is that he's not a good NFL player. PFF rated 119 edge defenders with enough qualifying snaps. Stewart was 119th. When sorted by their run defense scores, he was not only last but last by a large margin.

And I like plenty of Bengals picks, just not as many as I wish we'd made.

14 hours ago, T-Dub said:

Personally I don't hate Stewart at all & think he may be a really good DE.. 2-3 years from now.

What I hate is drafting a project like that during what should be a (rapidly closing) Super Bowl window. They needed immediate, big-time defensive help. Not "potential". I hate the lack of urgency. I hate that they're trying to sell he & Murphy as starters based on a few halfway decent games against dogshit opponents. Hate them trying to gas up players that everyone knows are bad. Hate the arrogant messaging where the fans are too stupid to recognize their Tremendous Minds after a losing season. Hate how their excuses are wearing thin.

Stewart will probably be alright though, one day. Good for him.

Uh, what's the basis for thinking he'll be good in 2 or 3 years? He'll still be a great athlete then, barring major injury, but his best game of the season was week 1 and he got worse over the course of the year. I'm sure we'll hear excuses about nagging injuries or some such, but his tape is pretty brutal. And if he's compared to pass rushers the Bengals passed on such as James Pearce or Donovan Ezeiruakua, it's even worse.

The Bengals won't trade him this offseason because nobody else will give much for him and it would be an admission of failure by the team's "brain trust". Even worse, they won't change the model that led them to choose him in the first place. It's how I won the draft contest last year, choosing the most plausible blunder in round 1.

3 hours ago, claptonrocks said:

No.

He has the physical tools.

The whole fiasco about signing was Katy being cheap.

He lost a few days in camp for it.

He was injured twice that affected his play and reps.

He was in bad need of technical refinements.

With his dismal rook season out of the way along with more training he should be ready to elevate his play.

He's not strict pass rusher like Trey was or Murphy is now

Hes filling the spot Hubbard left as the edge defender on the power side.

Yes, he can run through the wrong gap at high speed, if that's what you mean by his physical tools.

3 minutes ago, sparky151 said:

That doesn't make any sense. 8 games is enough to show he belongs in the NFL. What he showed this past season is that he's not a good NFL player. PFF rated 119 edge defenders with enough qualifying snaps. Stewart was 119th. When sorted by their run defense scores, he was not only last but last by a large margin.

And I like plenty of Bengals picks, just not as many as I wish we'd made.

Uh, what's the basis for thinking he'll be good in 2 or 3 years? He'll still be a great athlete then, barring major injury, but his best game of the season was week 1 and he got worse over the course of the year. I'm sure we'll hear excuses about nagging injuries or some such, but his tape is pretty brutal. And if he's compared to pass rushers the Bengals passed on such as James Pearce or Donovan Ezeiruakua, it's even worse.

The Bengals won't trade him this offseason because nobody else will give much for him and it would be an admission of failure by the team's "brain trust". Even worse, they won't change the model that led them to choose him in the first place. It's how I won the draft contest last year, choosing the most plausible blunder in round 1.

Yes, he can run through the wrong gap at high speed, if that's what you mean by his physical tools.

I figure he can learn how to play football in 3 years on an NFL team. Assuming he doesn't spend half of it on IR because he's just out there flailing around.. or put in a starter role because he was a first round pick even though he clearly isn't ready...

Yeah I guess it's just as likely he's not on the roster in 3 years. Would love to know where he was slotted on other team's draft boards.

13 minutes ago, sparky151 said:

That doesn't make any sense. 8 games is enough to show he belongs in the NFL. What he showed this past season is that he's not a good NFL player. PFF rated 119 edge defenders with enough qualifying snaps. Stewart was 119th. When sorted by their run defense scores, he was not only last but last by a large margin.

And I like plenty of Bengals picks, just not as many as I wish we'd made.

Uh, what's the basis for thinking he'll be good in 2 or 3 years? He'll still be a great athlete then, barring major injury, but his best game of the season was week 1 and he got worse over the course of the year. I'm sure we'll hear excuses about nagging injuries or some such, but his tape is pretty brutal. And if he's compared to pass rushers the Bengals passed on such as James Pearce or Donovan Ezeiruakua, it's even worse.

The Bengals won't trade him this offseason because nobody else will give much for him and it would be an admission of failure by the team's "brain trust". Even worse, they won't change the model that led them to choose him in the first place. It's how I won the draft contest last year, choosing the most plausible blunder in round 1.

Yes, he can run through the wrong gap at high speed, if that's what you mean by his physical tools.

Alright then..

14 minutes ago, T-Dub said:

I figure he can learn how to play football in 3 years on an NFL team. Assuming he doesn't spend half of it on IR because he's just out there flailing around.. or put in a starter role because he was a first round pick even though he clearly isn't ready...

Yeah I guess it's just as likely he's not on the roster in 3 years. Would love to know where he was slotted on other team's draft boards.

There are a couple models for reporting big boards. One is someone does their own analysis of the various players and positions. Mel Kiper and his competitors do that. The other is to just ask teams who they rate highly or who they think other teams rate highly. The Dallas Morning News reporter who did this for a long time usually had the best record for picking who would go in the top 100.

There were certainly analysts who had Stewart in the mid first round range based on the assumption that his physical tools would translate to being a good NFL player even though his college production was very modest. I'd give Gridiron Grading credit here since college production is a large part of their process. So they had Stewart rated in the 40s on their big board. It's what has them not rating Caleb Banks in their top 100 this year even though there are media mocks where he goes top 10.

23 minutes ago, sparky151 said:

There are a couple models for reporting big boards. One is someone does their own analysis of the various players and positions. Mel Kiper and his competitors do that. The other is to just ask teams who they rate highly or who they think other teams rate highly. The Dallas Morning News reporter who did this for a long time usually had the best record for picking who would go in the top 100.

There were certainly analysts who had Stewart in the mid first round range based on the assumption that his physical tools would translate to being a good NFL player even though his college production was very modest. I'd give Gridiron Grading credit here since college production is a large part of their process. So they had Stewart rated in the 40s on their big board. It's what has them not rating Caleb Banks in their top 100 this year even though there are media mocks where he goes top 10.

Good points.

I'm wondering if dline coach needs to go.

The progression with his unit is bad .

Upon further review Jeff Montgomery is rated highly

Just first year here .

He's the Dline coach at the senior bowl.

1 hour ago, sparky151 said:

There are a couple models for reporting big boards. One is someone does their own analysis of the various players and positions. Mel Kiper and his competitors do that. The other is to just ask teams who they rate highly or who they think other teams rate highly. The Dallas Morning News reporter who did this for a long time usually had the best record for picking who would go in the top 100.

There were certainly analysts who had Stewart in the mid first round range based on the assumption that his physical tools would translate to being a good NFL player even though his college production was very modest. I'd give Gridiron Grading credit here since college production is a large part of their process. So they had Stewart rated in the 40s on their big board. It's what has them not rating Caleb Banks in their top 100 this year even though there are media mocks where he goes top 10.

As a 2nd round pick it would've made more sense, but even then there's the opportunity cost of not taking a player more likely to be immediately productive.. even if he didn't run quite as fast in gym shorts. Like I keep saying, Mike's drafting show ponies. He doesn't care so much if they lose so long as the team looks good doing it.

6 hours ago, Jamie_B said:

That's putting it nicely.

He plays like the Tasmanian Devil, just runs in and tries to fuck things up. He don't have much technique to him at all, it's why he keeps losing against the guys he goes up against now that he is at the NFL where everyone is good and you cant just rely on your physical traits.

I would really like to see him take responsibility himself and go outside of his normal coaching we are giving him to get some specialized training like you see with alot of guys at this level. It could really help him take the next step.

Well he does sit in the front row in meetings! That must mean something!

3 hours ago, T-Dub said:

I figure he can learn how to play football in 3 years on an NFL team. Assuming he doesn't spend half of it on IR because he's just out there flailing around.. or put in a starter role because he was a first round pick even though he clearly isn't ready...

Yeah I guess it's just as likely he's not on the roster in 3 years. Would love to know where he was slotted on other team's draft boards.

I would assume he was just as high on some boards and well farther down on other boards. He is a typical polarizing player where the ceiling is high but the floor is quite low.

I heard he will be training with Margus Hunt over the offseason. That should fix things.

So as I see it, Stewart, Knight and Carter all finished at the bottom of their group for the entire league? Ugg. Then we have Kris “Mutant” Jenkins who has, according to Golden, the best training camp of any player only to then mutate into a middling DT.

Those damn wrong decisions at the decision points will get you every time!

22 minutes ago, I_C_Deadpeople said:

Well he does sit in the front row in meetings! That must mean something!

It means he's figured out the sort of feel-good bullshit that allows someone to keep their job with the Bengals no matter how they perform