14 hours ago, dex said:

I’ve been doing some deep research on the offense for a new thread, but I don’t think most fans even realize how bad Iosivas has been as a WR3 statistically.

He has been WR3 for the last 2 seasons and the coaches have given him every opportunity to take advantage of an opportunity most receivers can only dream of. Burrow throwing you the ball and Chase and Higgins to take the bulk of the defensive focus. It doesn’t get any better.

But Iosivas has only compiled a bit over 900 receiving yards combined over those 2 healthy seasons and 34 games. To tell you how poor that is, do we all remember how Tyler Boyd declined in his last 2 years with the Bengals? He was aging, too slow, too limited to being a slot receiver only. In roughly the same amount of snaps and targets as Iosivas over Boyd’s final 2 seasons, he still produced about 500 more receiving yards than the bigger, faster Iosivas managed during his 2 years as WR3.

Iosivas actually has a lot of truly red flag stats that make me think he will get a diminished role in the upcoming season. I know he trains very hard and is built like a Greek god, but Iosivas is a black hole as WR3 imo. He is just an athlete who plays pro football.

He was inserted at slot..

Doesn't have the quick twitch moves for that spot.

He can run like the wind though.

Wideout would suit his talents more

Would Curtis Samuel be of value here?

WR3 barring injury or future.. incidents.

On 5/4/2026 at 11:12 PM, T-Dub said:

Yoshi is JAG, barring a breakout season but I'm not holding my breath at this point. They're still trying to talk him into greatness, it's worn thin.

I’m not sure if they are even trying to talk him into goodness anymore, much less greatness. At least not privately.

I’m sure that the coaches have looked at the advanced stats of Iosivas, and they are really alarming on many fronts. His best strength thus far - as was also the case with Cordell Volson - has been durability. I don’t believe he has ever missed a single snap in 3 seasons due to injury. He took 79% of the scrimmage snaps in 2024, 77% in 2025. He has been given every opportunity to succeed.Yet his drop rate per target has been much too high, over 8%.

But that isn’t Andrei’s most damning stat. Chase has an elite broken tackle per reception rate, at 9 per every 17 games played. Higgins has a broken tackle/ reception rate of 5 per 17 games played, also excellent. But in his entire 3 year career, Iosivas has broken exactly one tackle despite never dealing with double teams or elite DBs. So 0 broken tackles/reception rate over 17 games for Iosivas, for those scoring at home. He is last in the NFL in that category, obviously. Or actually first if you are looking at the leader board upside down.

Iosivas is to breaking tackles what Geno Stone is to making tackles. Maybe one day we will see Iosivas and Stone face off in the open field as opponents in a battle of very movable objects, both of them in a desperate race to see who can throw up the white flag first.

6 hours ago, dex said:

I’m not sure if they are even trying to talk him into goodness anymore, much less greatness. At least not privately.

I’m sure that the coaches have looked at the advanced stats of Iosivas, and they are really alarming on many fronts. His best strength thus far - as was also the case with Cordell Volson - has been durability. I don’t believe he has ever missed a single snap in 3 seasons due to injury. He took 79% of the scrimmage snaps in 2024, 77% in 2025. He has been given every opportunity to succeed.Yet his drop rate per target has been much too high, over 8%.

But that isn’t Andrei’s most damning stat. Chase has an elite broken tackle per reception rate, at 9 per every 17 games played. Higgins has a broken tackle/ reception rate of 5 per 17 games played, also excellent. But in his entire 3 year career, Iosivas has broken exactly one tackle despite never dealing with double teams or elite DBs. So 0 broken tackles/reception rate over 17 games for Iosivas, for those scoring at home. He is last in the NFL in that category, obviously. Or actually first if you are looking at the leader board upside down.

Iosivas is to breaking tackles what Geno Stone is to making tackles. Maybe one day we will see Iosivas and Stone face off in the open field as opponents in a battle of very movable objects, both of them in a desperate race to see who can throw up the white flag first.

If we can also make Gesicki block for Yoshi perhaps the energy of all 3 of them trying to avoid contact with the others could be harnessed for unlimited free power. If lack of effort was tomato soup..

They were just going on about how shredded he was.. again.. which has about as much to do with football as being tall does with playing for the Suns. But they're still halfass trying to make Yoshi happen, sort of.. or they were until about 5 minutes after Colbie Young hit the field. That may be over now.

Sun rise, Sun set.

On 5/8/2026 at 11:56 PM, T-Dub said:

If we can also make Gesicki block for Yoshi perhaps the energy of all 3 of them trying to avoid contact with the others could be harnessed for unlimited free power. If lack of effort was tomato soup..

Gesicki has been in the league for 8 seasons now. He is credited with breaking a whopping 3 tackles over his entire career, with 0 broken tackles while playing for Cincinnati. Iosivas probably laughs at Gesicki’s broken tackle ineptitude, having been credited with his very first one just last year.

One category where Gesicki easily clears Iosivas is on drop % rate, at less than 3 %. The drop % for Iosivas is 3 times that. They are both essentially slot WRs as Gesicki only was attached inline about 20% of the time last season. Iosivas gets quite a few snaps outside when they move Chase inside or when Chase/Higgins are unavailable due to suspension or injury. For the last 2 seasons Iosivas has performed considerably below NFL starter average, no matter where he lines up in formations.

I don’t know why it’s so hard for some people to understand that Gesicki is NOT a TE…he’s just an oversized WR, nothing more. He’s asked to make touchdowns and first downs, not blocks.

3 hours ago, spicoli said:

I don’t know why it’s so hard for some people to understand that Gesicki is NOT a TE…he’s just an oversized WR, nothing more. He’s asked to make touchdowns and first downs, not blocks.

Except for the 20% of the time he was lined up inside as a TE? Also, everyone but the QB is asked to block when someone else has the ball. Even Chase & Higgins are expected to tie up a DB, if only with a shove or by getting in their way.

3 broken tackles in 8 years? He's stepping out of bounds to avoid contact. He's 6'6 and 245lbs of pudding & that's kind of funny. He's a good WR, but he is also clearly soft.

1 hour ago, T-Dub said:

Except for the 20% of the time he was lined up inside as a TE? Also, everyone but the QB is asked to block when someone else has the ball. Even Chase & Higgins are expected to tie up a DB, if only with a shove or by getting in their way.

Gesicki is supposed to be considered a flex TE, not just a slot receiver or a WR. This is all about size. Higgins is the Bengals heaviest WR at 220 lbs. Even the 2 types of TEs are sort of divided by weight.

"Y" TEs (inline) - Sample 6-5, 260; Grandy 6-5, 253; All 6-5, 255 (all in the 250s)

"F" TEs - Gesicki 6-6, 245; Hudson 6-5, 241; Endries 6-5 245 (all in the 240s)

Like most NFL teams Cincinnati almost always plays with one inline TE. That's one reason why Sample got almost twice as many snaps per game than Gesicki. Fant was often the inline TE if Sample was out of the game. The 2 games where Gesicki received the highest scrimmage snap % in 2025 came @Denver and against Baltimore as they were forced to pass the ball constantly due to large deficits. The Bengals eventually lost those games by a combined 52-3 score. Cincinnati's biggest TE issue is that Sample/Grandy are not receiving threats while Gesicki/Hudson are ineffective blockers.

I have said it often before, but we should all be crossing our fingers that Erick All's knee is structurally sound now. Because there is no TE more valuable than a strong blocking inline "Y" that can easily become an effective "F" receiver depending on the play call. Those rare guys can transform an offense. Without any real training camp in 2024, All came out of nowhere to be a bruising run blocker who also caught 91% of his targets. You never have to take him off the field and the defense gets no "tells" as to what Cincinnati wants to do on a particular play. Defensive coordinators hate having to prepare for those versatile types of TEs.

1 hour ago, T-Dub said:

Except for the 20% of the time he was lined up inside as a TE? Also, everyone but the QB is asked to block when someone else has the ball. Even Chase & Higgins are expected to tie up a DB, if only with a shove or by getting in their way.

3 broken tackles in 8 years? He's stepping out of bounds to avoid contact. He's 6'6 and 245lbs of pudding & that's kind of funny. He's a good WR, but he is also clearly soft.

That 20% of the time inside doesn’t mean anything and you know it. He’s getting a paycheck here to catch tds and convert first downs, plain and simple. He’s pretty good at that and Burrow seems to like having him out there so I’ll give him a pass on his inability to block.

That said, would love to see a guy develop into a do-it-all type for them… Erik All perhaps.

In the meantime, I have no issues with the position group or how they’re used currently.

27 minutes ago, spicoli said:

That 20% of the time inside doesn’t mean anything and you know it. He’s getting a paycheck here to catch tds and convert first downs, plain and simple. He’s pretty good at that and Burrow seems to like having him out there so I’ll give him a pass on his inability to block.

That said, would love to see a guy develop into a do-it-all type for them… Erik All perhaps.

In the meantime, I have no issues with the position group or how they’re used currently.

Burrow seems ok with Gesicki.

That's all that matters regardless of fan beefs.

39 minutes ago, dex said:

Gesicki is supposed to be considered a flex TE, not just a slot receiver or a WR. This is all about size. Higgins is the Bengals heaviest WR at 220 lbs. Even the 2 types of TEs are sort of divided by weight.

"Y" TEs (inline) - Sample 6-5, 260; Grandy 6-5, 253; All 6-5, 255 (all in the 250s)

"F" TEs - Gesicki 6-6, 245; Hudson 6-5, 241; Endries 6-5 245 (all in the 240s)

Like most NFL teams Cincinnati almost always plays with one inline TE. That's one reason why Sample got almost twice as many snaps per game than Gesicki. Fant was often the inline TE if Sample was out of the game. The 2 games where Gesicki received the highest scrimmage snap % in 2025 came @Denver and against Baltimore as they were forced to pass the ball constantly due to large deficits. The Bengals eventually lost those games by a combined 52-3 score. Cincinnati's biggest TE issue is that Sample/Grandy are not receiving threats while Gesicki/Hudson are ineffective blockers.

I have said it often before, but we should all be crossing our fingers that Erick All's knee is structurally sound now. Because there is no TE more valuable than a strong blocking inline "Y" that can easily become an effective "F" receiver depending on the play call. Those rare guys can transform an offense. Without any real training camp in 2024, All came out of nowhere to be a bruising run blocker who also caught 91% of his targets. You never have to take him off the field and the defense gets no "tells" as to what Cincinnati wants to do on a particular play. Defensive coordinators hate having to prepare for those versatile types of TEs.

If All is healthy and can go a full season

good..

Im thinking he can't with the injuries.

1 hour ago, spicoli said:

That 20% of the time inside doesn’t mean anything and you know it. He’s getting a paycheck here to catch tds and convert first downs, plain and simple. He’s pretty good at that and Burrow seems to like having him out there so I’ll give him a pass on his inability to block.

That said, would love to see a guy develop into a do-it-all type for them… Erik All perhaps.

In the meantime, I have no issues with the position group or how they’re used currently.

Sure js he's not exempt from the expectation of anyone on offense to throw at least a half-ass block downfield when called upon.

Think everyone has the same hopes for All but with his injury history that may be doubtful.

Right now I think it is better than a 50-50 chance that All is good to go this season. He certainly isn’t the first athlete to require a 2nd knee surgery soon after an initial one. The Atlanta Braves have a great relief pitcher who has lost 2 years to knee surgeries and has yet to be cleared. He may never pitch again.

All already passed all of the medical protocols several months ago, and has been fully cleared to return to the team for OTAs. All missed all of OTAs and most of training camp before the doctors finally cleared him. Admittedly All was part of a weak draft class, but he was the most impressive rookie on the team. Even over the 1sr rounder Mims. And now All is many months ahead of where he was at this point in 2024.

We will find out much more about All in the coming weeks as camp activities ramp up. But if someone wanted to list the top ten players that will determine how well the new season might go, Erick All definitely makes my list. He could be a game changer.

50 minutes ago, dex said:

Right now I think it is better than a 50-50 chance that All is good to go this season. He certainly isn’t the first athlete to require a 2nd knee surgery soon after an initial one. The Atlanta Braves have a great relief pitcher who has lost 2 years to knee surgeries and has yet to be cleared. He may never pitch again.

All already passed all of the medical protocols several months ago, and has been fully cleared to return to the team for OTAs. All missed all of OTAs and most of training camp before the doctors finally cleared him. Admittedly All was part of a weak draft class, but he was the most impressive rookie on the team. Even over the 1sr rounder Mims. And now All is many months ahead of where he was at this point in 2024.

We will find out much more about All in the coming weeks as camp activities ramp up. But if someone wanted to list the top ten players that will determine how well the new season might go, Erick All definitely makes my list. He could be a game changer.

Good thoughts agree with most you had to say

My thing is regardless of All, the offense has the weapons to be explosive without him.

Hopefully he can stay healthy and produce but

it's not a game changer if he doesn't.

1 hour ago, dex said:

Right now I think it is better than a 50-50 chance that All is good to go this season. He certainly isn’t the first athlete to require a 2nd knee surgery soon after an initial one. The Atlanta Braves have a great relief pitcher who has lost 2 years to knee surgeries and has yet to be cleared. He may never pitch again.

All already passed all of the medical protocols several months ago, and has been fully cleared to return to the team for OTAs. All missed all of OTAs and most of training camp before the doctors finally cleared him. Admittedly All was part of a weak draft class, but he was the most impressive rookie on the team. Even over the 1sr rounder Mims. And now All is many months ahead of where he was at this point in 2024.

We will find out much more about All in the coming weeks as camp activities ramp up. But if someone wanted to list the top ten players that will determine how well the new season might go, Erick All definitely makes my list. He could be a game changer.

It's the spinal fusion as much as the recurring knee injuries that make me nervous. That's a pretty crazy procedure for someone to then go play NFL ball where head & neck injuries are inevitable

11 hours ago, claptonrocks said:

Good thoughts agree with most you had to say

My thing is regardless of All, the offense has the weapons to be explosive without him.

Hopefully he can stay healthy and produce but

it's not a game changer if he doesn't.

Here is why I disagree. No one is disputing that the defense has the biggest room for improvement. It has been historically bad the last couple of seasons.

That doesn’t mean the offense can’t get better as well. Just look at the 2024 season where the Bengals averaged 27.6 ppg, the most in franchise history. The problem? That was only 6th best in the league that year. The Bengals scored 57 offensive TDs, the Lions scored 13 more with 70 TDs. That’s a big difference. The Ravens had a whopping 1000 plus yards more than the Bengals during the regular season. A big gap there.

Burrow and WR1 Chase are as good as it gets, WR2 Higgins is excellent and RB1 CBrown is above average as well. Where the Bengals have been seriously lacking is with the other 2 skill positions.

It is unreasonable to expect greatness from every position, but being considerably below average at WR3 and inline TE weighs down the overall offensive effectiveness. If they got merely average production from those 2 positions, it could launch the offense and the team into a whole new level.

Every facet of the roster needs to show some improvement before the team can achieve its postseason goals imo.

2 hours ago, dex said:

Here is why I disagree. No one is disputing that the defense has the biggest room for improvement. It has been historically bad the last couple of seasons.

That doesn’t mean the offense can’t get better as well. Just look at the 2024 season where the Bengals averaged 27.6 ppg, the most in franchise history. The problem? That was only 6th best in the league that year. The Bengals scored 57 offensive TDs, the Lions scored 13 more with 70 TDs. That’s a big difference. The Ravens had a whopping 1000 plus yards more than the Bengals during the regular season. A big gap there.

Burrow and WR1 Chase are as good as it gets, WR2 Higgins is excellent and RB1 CBrown is above average as well. Where the Bengals have been seriously lacking is with the other 2 skill positions.

It is unreasonable to expect greatness from every position, but being considerably below average at WR3 and inline TE weighs down the overall offensive effectiveness. If they got merely average production from those 2 positions, it could launch the offense and the team into a whole new level.

Every facet of the roster needs to show some improvement before the team can achieve its postseason goals imo.

Point taken..

On 5/8/2026 at 5:47 PM, dex said:

I’m not sure if they are even trying to talk him into goodness anymore, much less greatness. At least not privately.

I’m sure that the coaches have looked at the advanced stats of Iosivas, and they are really alarming on many fronts. His best strength thus far - as was also the case with Cordell Volson - has been durability. I don’t believe he has ever missed a single snap in 3 seasons due to injury. He took 79% of the scrimmage snaps in 2024, 77% in 2025. He has been given every opportunity to succeed.Yet his drop rate per target has been much too high, over 8%.

But that isn’t Andrei’s most damning stat. Chase has an elite broken tackle per reception rate, at 9 per every 17 games played. Higgins has a broken tackle/ reception rate of 5 per 17 games played, also excellent. But in his entire 3 year career, Iosivas has broken exactly one tackle despite never dealing with double teams or elite DBs. So 0 broken tackles/reception rate over 17 games for Iosivas, for those scoring at home. He is last in the NFL in that category, obviously. Or actually first if you are looking at the leader board upside down.

Iosivas is to breaking tackles what Geno Stone is to making tackles. Maybe one day we will see Iosivas and Stone face off in the open field as opponents in a battle of very movable objects, both of them in a desperate race to see who can throw up the white flag first.

To me it looks like Yoshi just doesn't have natural hands. Even when he catches the ball it's not clean a lot of the time. You see double catches and bobbles. That stuff will happen to everyone, but it seems to happen more with him. I like him, but unless he has a breakout season, it's time to move on.

I love the potential of this offense, but until we have that 3rd WR I don't think we see its top gear.