1 hour ago, Dautcom08 said:

He had a knee injury in 2024 that lingered throughout the season and eventually ended his season in Week 11 and required surgery. His play plummeted the following season.

this should have been obvious in training camp, no?

2 hours ago, T-Dub said:

this should have been obvious in training camp, no?

He was injured, had surgery, but never recovered to his previous form. Hard to blame the team for that or Wilson for that matter. He was a 28 year old team captain so they gave him a chance to prove he could still play and it didn’t work out.

8 hours ago, spicoli said:

Wilson lost his speed and fell off a cliff as a player. It was pretty easy to see.

he also couldnt accept that as a reality. and had a shitty fucking attitude about the whole thing. then he got traded still sucked and it sank in... and he was such a pussy about it he retired immediately.

I really dont think the bengals expect Dex to be his old self fully, and i dont think he needs to be...

he brings everything the defense lacked. player caliber, attitude, leadership, focus, everything the young group of guys and his pal BJ all need desperately.

not to mention the sheer ateention he grabs, even if he isnt palying top level, he is still going to ge tthe defenses focus and attention which is what everyone else needs to be happening.

9 hours ago, BlackJesus said:

I expect a defense ranked from #6-10 ... Dexter is going to be the engine that drives the entire car.

Also I want to see Stewart inside at DT on 3rd down, where I feel he is best. The "race car package" on obvious 3rd and long passing downs of ...

Howell -- Stewart -- Robinson -- Mafe

Is really enticing. 😎

I can't see this alignment being used.

3 hours ago, GoBengals said:

I really dont think the bengals expect Dex to be his old self fully, and i dont think he needs to be...

he brings everything the defense lacked. player caliber, attitude, leadership, focus, everything the young group of guys and his pal BJ all need desperately.

not to mention the sheer ateention he grabs, even if he isnt palying top level, he is still going to ge tthe defenses focus and attention which is what everyone else needs to be happening.

same, he's simply better than anyone they had left on the DL if not the entire defense. he could pull a Slaton* Rankins and miss the whole year with birdpox and still have an impact.

js he's not going to carry the defense solo any more than JB could carry the offense without Ja or Tee.. hopefully he doesn't have to

Slaton is still on the roster, for now, having done slightly* more than someone that missed the entire 2024 season. Honest mistake.

3 hours ago, GoBengals said:

he also couldnt accept that as a reality. and had a shitty fucking attitude about the whole thing. then he got traded still sucked and it sank in... and he was such a pussy about it he retired immediately.

if he's not physically able to play at a decent level what else is left but to retire?

& not trying to be a dick (it comes naturally geddit badum-tsss) but uh.. did you witness this "shitty fucking attitude" personally? because i bet he'd tell a different story and somewhere between the 2 versions lies the truth.

im not going to crucify the guy over sour grapes rumors

7 hours ago, claptonrocks said:

I can't see this alignment being used.

Nor I

Mafe still has to prove himself.

1 hour ago, High School Harry said:

Nor I

Mafe still has to prove himself.

Mafe is very much a proven pass rusher.

Mafe’s 77.0 PFF grade reflects his consistency and efficiency as a pass rusher. Over the past three seasons, he’s posted 146 pressures and 41 run stops, showing he’s a reliable full-time starter who can contribute both in pass coverage and run defense PFF. While his 2025 sack total was low (2), his pass-rush win rate was strong, ranking 8th among edge rushers that year A to Z Sports.

Context in Free Agency

CBS Sports’ free agent EDGE rankings also place Mafe in the top tier, behind Hendrickson and Oweh, with Phillips and Bosa close behind CBS Sports. This positions him as a high-value veteran option for teams needing a proven pass rusher who can anchor the defensive line.

Bottom line: Boye Mafe is considered one of the top free agent edge defenders in 2026, ranking 4th in PFF’s free agent class and a strong fit for teams looking to upgrade their pass rush with a proven, versatile edge rusher.

On 5/27/2026 at 8:05 AM, GoBengals said:

i wouldnt be shocked if they ended up top 10, but i wouldnt predict it.. on paper they probably should be.

even if you get the worst possible outcome of a healthy Dexter Lawrence, its a HUGE win. Just isolating that one move, you are going to get one of two things out of that deal.

1. A great player commanding double teams and still being effective

2. a player distracting the offense, OR not requiring double teams and his life is easier and effective.

i think there is too much talent and athleticism around him to not have some full 180 success from that group. Howell is primed to do some interesting things on this defense, and not just in the pass rush realm.

DB's were either already good or were replaced with good players so no real concerns there..

Linebackera re auxilary help players in todays NFL. you still need good ones, but a great one doesnt really move th eneedle as much as it did 20 years ago.

if the DL is forcing proper gaps and the linebackers are ready theyll be in those gaps. teh DL not hitting or holding gaps reall helped fuck the linebackers who were already a half step slow learning last year.... expecting anything short of big leaps from those two probably isnt based on realistic information.

like most, the defense is a house of cards, a few select injuries and we got problems, but if remotely healthy it should be a fun, well improved group.

Ill see your top 10 and say top 5, but would be happy with top 15.

On 5/26/2026 at 1:04 PM, claptonrocks said:

A rookie....

Made mistakes

Correcting them under his Oline coach.

He's adjusted after a year .

Funny how our LBs don't get this excuse, ijs.

6 hours ago, Jungletiger said:

Funny how our LBs don't get this excuse, ijs.

I have heard nothing but excuses for our LBs

Did I miss some other news? Does one of them look more big and strong and linebacker-y than last year? Mustard commercial incoming?

Breaking News: Barret Carter wins prestigious Super Good at Tackling award!

7 hours ago, Jungletiger said:

Funny how our LBs don't get this excuse, ijs.

Your right..

1 hour ago, T-Dub said:

I have heard nothing but excuses for our LBs

Did I miss some other news? Does one of them look more big and strong and linebacker-y than last year? Mustard commercial incoming?

Breaking News: Barret Carter wins prestigious Super Good at Tackling award!

Our fan base does nothing BUT rag on our 2 ROOKIE LBs. I do not know where else you're looking, but our mileages have varied it seems.

BJ Hill is already a very large man.

Dexter Lawrence isn't even human.

7 hours ago, BlackJesus said:

BJ Hill is already a very large man.

Dexter Lawrence isn't even human.

Either one would kill her if she went hood ornament.

2 hours ago, High School Harry said:

Either one would kill her if she went hood ornament.

You’re a child

16 hours ago, Jungletiger said:

Our fan base does nothing BUT rag on our 2 ROOKIE LBs. I do not know where else you're looking, but our mileages have varied it seems.

ive defended Knight myself, Golden put him in position to fail.. but objectively they were all really, really bad.

then they won a few meaningless games against some of the worst teams in the NFL last year & ever since then the party line has been "Big Improvement" and pointing out how they were ROOKIEs at every opportunity, like that excuses not being able to tackle anyone.

without a veteran in the group thats worth a damn (not you, Burks) I expect they will continue to struggle.

2 hours ago, T-Dub said:

ive defended Knight myself, Golden put him in position to fail.. but objectively they were all really, really bad.

I think the most distressing thing about Knight was that he entered the NFL with a ton of college experience. I think that Knight’s maturity was what Golden was pinning his hopes on.

Knight turns 26 this July. As a point of comparison, Myles Murphy will be entering his 4th NFL year, but is a year and a half younger than Knight. Mims will begin his 3rd NFL season at age 23, more than 2 years younger than Knight. Knight only has one more year in the NFL than Connor Lew, but somehow is more than a whopping 5 years older.

So I think it is fair to ask…how much better do the coaches expect Knight to get?

3 hours ago, dex said:

So I think it is fair to ask…how much better do the coaches expect Knight to get?

Enough so that they haven't been in any hurry to sign a free agent LB. Justified, or that thing where they ignore the obvious until expiring contracts etc force their hand? guess we'll see.

still plenty of time to sign someone resembling a real NFL LB, though. it wouldn't take a whole lot to improve the position. i've used the example of Dhani Jones before... does anyone in the bldg have the juice to say "sorry bout your draft picks but they're not good enough for a team talking about super bowls?" kind of the same question as above..

Very long but interesting (un-paywalled) article from Paul Dehner & The Athletic about the team's LB philosophy:

Why the Cincinnati Bengals trust their young linebackers despite last year’s struggles

The Bengals are counting on improvement from second-year linebackers Demetrius Knight Jr. (left) and Barrett Carter. Joseph Maiorana / Imagn Images

By Paul Dehner Jr.

June 1, 2026 Updated 8:00 am EDT

A recurring question followed every move throughout the Cincinnati Bengals’ offseason as they overhauled their defense.

After the Bengals opened free agency by dropping $100 million on edge Boye Mafe and safety Bryan Cook.

After they added former Pro Bowl defensive tackle Jonathan Allen to supplement B.J. Hill.

After they drafted SEC Defensive Player of the Year Cashius Howell and cornerback Tacario Davis on Day 2.

Even after they pulled off the blockbuster trade for All-Pro defensive tackle Dexter Lawrence.

The momentum fizzled with an inevitable recalibration.

So … when does the linebacker come?

Now six months into the offseason, and the vast majority of the typical transaction avenues dried up, no rookie linebacker was drafted and no veteran with an NFL start to his name was added. The worst position group on a defense that set the franchise record for points allowed remains largely untouched.

Barrett Carter and Demetrius Knight Jr. are still presumed starters after finishing in the bottom 10 percent of all linebackers in PFF grades as rookies. Journeymen Oren Burks and Joe Giles-Harris supplement 2024 undrafted free agent Shaka Heyward as backups.

How does that happen?

“I don’t think we went into it saying we’re not going to add at any position,” de facto general manager Duke Tobin said. “Again, it’s opportunities that come up. Probably the best thing we did for our linebacker room is what we did for the D-line room, and that’s going to elevate those guys. And I have real belief in the guys that we have.”

What if I told you the Bengals were almost exactly following the template of some of the NFL’s best defenses?

---

Ran Carthon understands modern roster construction. He spent 15 years working his way up from scout to director of player personnel with the Atlanta Falcons, St. Louis / Los Angeles Rams and San Francisco 49ers. By 2023, he was named general manager of the Tennessee Titans, a role he held for two seasons.

When he would do draft prep each year with the Titans, he’d make the same note: “Rams, they got to take a backer.”

Each year, they never did. Instead, they kept investing in the defensive front. The three linebackers over the last two seasons were all undrafted and relative unknowns: Omar Speights, Nate Landman and Christian Rozeboom (who moved to the Panthers last season).

Los Angeles ranked sixth in defensive EPA per drive last season.

They just continue to build up front,” Carthon said. “It goes back to the system. Is having the backer really the focus of that system?”

For many of the NFL’s most dominant defensive teams, the answer to Carthon’s question is no.

Look at the Super Bowl champion Seattle Seahawks, who led the NFL in defensive EPA per drive (and nearly every other relevant defensive category).

Seattle started Ernest Jones and Drake Thomas at linebacker. Jones earned a three-year, $28 million free agent contract before the year, a solid investment, but on his third team in five years.

Drake Thomas breaks up a pass that Ernest Jones intercepted in a Seahawks’ win against the Cardinals. Thomas and Jones combined for 222 tackles, six interceptions and four sacks in Seattle’s 2025 Super Bowl-winning season.Joe Camporeale / Imagn Images

Thomas entered his third NFL season last year. He was undrafted with 42 defensive snaps to his name. He finished starting 17 games, all the way through the Super Bowl, with a 72 grade from Pro Football Focus.

The defensive line in front of them wrecked the league and became the template for every general manager in football.

They followed in the footsteps of the Philadelphia Eagles, the 2024 champs.

Their loaded defensive front entered the season with Zack Baun, Nakobe Dean and Burks at linebacker. Baun spent four years in New Orleans, never with more than 303 snaps in a season and signed for just $4.5 million. He ended the season as an All-Pro.

Dean was a third-round pick entering his third season with only 229 career defensive snaps. Burks was on his third team in seven seasons with 15 career starts. He ended as a hero of their playoff run, with a ring on his finger.

Last year, the Houston Texans started Azeez Al-Shaair and Henry To’oTo’o at linebacker behind a dominant front and led the AFC in defense. They enjoyed shades of success before but were far from the top players at the position.

Second in the AFC in defense were the Cleveland Browns, who put second-round pick Carson Schwesinger next to Devin Bush, who played for three teams in the previous four seasons and signed for near the veteran minimum. Schwesigner was named the NFL Defensive Rookie of the Year, and Bush parlayed his season into a three-year, $30 million contract.

All those dominant linebackers we have in our league, nine times out of 10, they are playing behind dominant defensive fronts,” Carthon said.

Most of the league’s best defenses didn’t invest heavily in linebackers, but rather in defensive lines capable of producing quality linebackers.

“One hundred percent,” Carthon said. “Honestly, I think that is the way to build it. Everybody would like a bona fide Fred Warner-type. You look at what we did in San Francisco, what DeMeco (Ryans) is doing in Houston, what Robert Saleh is now doing. Everybody wants to have the dominant defensive front because it starts there.

“When I am evaluating defensive linemen, the No. 1 thing I am looking at is: Can you maintain the point and keep the linebackers clean on the second level and allow those guys to run, chase and hit?”

---

Crowds of media gathered around Carter and Knight Jr. with many different versions of the same question in the days after the draft that only featured the addition of undrafted free agents Jack Dingle (Cincinnati) and Eric Gentry (USC), and a later addition of Swayze Bozeman, on his third team in three NFL seasons.

Can you believe how much they believe in you?

They recognize the perception.

“There’s a ton of talk,” said Knight, Cincinnati’s 2025 second-round pick. “We don’t look at it because it can be hit or miss. There can be comments out there that bring you up, and then two comments later, it brings you down. That’s what this sport is. People have their opinions. Bring them on. We don’t read them for mental health reasons.”

The two rookies improved throughout the season, but they must make a significant leap to reach a serviceable leve

Each had at least 700 snaps and 100 tackles as rookies. For perspective, there have only been 19 rookie linebackers over the last 10 seasons to cross those thresholds.

Knight and Carter were the only teammates on the list.

The Bengals were the first team with two rookie off-ball linebackers logging at least 700 snaps since the 2012 Atlanta Falcons.

By all standards, Knight and Carter failed. The problem is they were unequivocally set up to do so.

“We were both in the fire together,” Carter said. “Usually, if you have a rookie out there, you are with a vet or alongside a vet. We were learning at the same time. I can speak for the both of us, we never saw a fullback. We never saw a QB under center. In college, that’s just not where the game is right now.

“Coming into the league, you see that so frequently. We both were trying to lean on each other with that and get in the film room and try to give us an edge any way we possibly could come Sunday.”

Think about that for a moment. Never saw a fullback or QB under center? Now, much of their job is predicated on reading the under-center play action specifically devised to cook them each week. The rookies were flying blind and crashing once Carter was inserted in place of veteran Logan Wilson in Week 5.

“Whatever we are going to see this year, we are going to be prepared for because we have seen it in the past,” Carter said.

Glimpses showed as the season progressed, with a clear uptick starting in Week 12 against the Patriots.

Barrett Carter season dissection

Snaps	420	372
Tackles	43	26
Snaps per stop	26.3	24.8
Missed tackle %	24.5%	13.3%
PFF grade (Rk)	33.2 (52nd of 52)	53.9 (40th of 52)

Demetrius Knight season dissection

Snaps	509	289
Tackles	49	21
Snaps per stop	28.2	26.2
Missed tackle%	18.3%	19.2%
PFF grade (Rk)	35.0 (51st of 52)	56.3 (37th of 52)

Production and efficiency improved, but this wasn’t a coming-out party. An offseason that runs this back required a leap of faith for Year 2 improvement.

“They were thrust into a situation that wasn’t easy for either of them, right?” defensive coordinator Al Golden said. “But, if we took a deep breath, or if I look back at Germaine (Pratt) or Logan (Wilson), or any of those other guys that I’ve had the opportunity to coach … I don’t think any of them had 100-tackle (rookie seasons).”

Pratt’s first 100-tackle season came in Year 5 and Wilson’s in his second season.

Luke Kuechly will go into the Hall of Fame this year, and he played 921 snaps as a rookie in 2012. PFF graded him at 72 and 77 in his first two seasons before crossing 90 each of the next five.

Even look at the best of the 2025 season at the position and their career progressions.

Off-ball LBs, first-team All-Pros ('25)

Jack Campbell	52.1	78.7	90.2
Jordyn Brooks	50	58.4	77.8
Devin Lloyd	48.1	78.1	88.4

Carthon referenced everyone in the league wanting a “bona fide Fred Warner-type,” and who wouldn’t? The bottom line is that even Warner, a third-round pick in 2018 by Carthon’s staff, started as a shell of his current self.

His PFF grades in his first two seasons were 64.1 and 63.5; he has been in elite territory every season since. Carthon witnessed the progression to greatness firsthand. During Warner’s rookie season, Carthon would regularly meet with the defensive line group, offering scouting reports, tips and tendencies. Warner would sit in, quietly listening.

“One day, I said, ‘Hey man, I have a tip for you, something really simple: if you see this, you can determine whether it is run or pass.’ I am showing him all this stuff and he stopped me. He said, ‘Hey man, that is way too much to put on my plate right now. Maybe next year, but now, I can’t. As time went, he was like, ‘OK, give it to me.’ ”

Carthon added, “We have to, as a whole, develop more patience and understand these guys aren’t complete when we get them. You have to be OK with that.”

That’s why Tobin and the Bengals are OK with Carter and Knight and have deprioritized the position despite the extreme struggles of 2025.

“They have full seasons under their belt,” Tobin said. “They have really good production for rookies, and they’re going to grow in our scheme. They’re going to be really good players, and I think we have depth behind them.”

---

Burks, who signed in free agency last offseason before starting nine games for the Bengals, fully understands the difference Lawrence makes. He played behind Eagles Pro Bowl defensive tackle Jalen Carter during his best run of football in the 2024 postseason.

“There were so many plays where I would be in the perfect spot, and he’s already made the play,” Burks said, laughing at the absurd disruption he witnessed while racking up 25 tackles, three for loss and two quarterback hits in four playoff games.

He calls Carter the best he’s played behind, and that list is impressive. There were Arik Armstead and Nick Bosa in San Francisco, Kenny Clark and Rashan Gary in Green Bay, among others.

“I’m spoiled,” he said.

The front office made a clear evaluation that last year’s line wasn’t remotely near those levels. Hence, the overhaul in front of Burks. There’s no replicating what he sees and feels when the defensive line absorbs all the attention.

“That relationship sets the tone,” Burks said, “in the run game, especially.”

The addition of Dexter Lawrence has been the centerpiece of the Bengals’ efforts to improve the defense this offseason.

Lawrence wanted to build the relationship the moment he walked into the building. He announced during his opening news conference that he planned to connect with Carter and Knight.

“My first thought was how I’m going to help the young linebackers,” he said. “Make their job easier.”

When Carter found out about the Lawrence trade, he stopped his pickleball game to celebrate.

“I screamed my ass off,” Carter said. “When I saw this happened, it sent so much joy and excitement to my heart.”

Lawrence, Mafe, Allen and Howell were brought in to bring new life to the defensive line, but their greatest value lies in the new life they have given the off-ball linebackers behind them.

They brought a notably rejuvenated and motivated approach upon returning to the building, despite all the criticism and questioning.

“We took a look in the mirror last year,” Burks said. “It obviously wasn’t great play at linebacker. The standard has to go up moving forward. I feel like we all kind of bought into that. A lot of people are doubting us, but we love that. We are taking that with a chip on our shoulder.

That’s been seen in their confidence on the field and demeanor in the locker room.

“You want to be the guy that takes the jump,” Knight said. “You want to be the guy that guys can look to to lead the team, but know this guy is going to do his one-11th, but this guy is coming with a different energy, a different passion, a different demeanor this year. That’s what this is all about.”

That’s the plan the Bengals chose to accept. That doesn’t mean they refused to consider additions at linebacker or won’t still make one. There could be a trade or waiver-wire pickup that enhances the depth or challenges a starter. There’s an obvious reason for concern while banking on the development of players who haven’t proven they can play at a high level. The strategy is a significant risk.

In the wider view, however, it’s a risk many of the best defenses across the NFL have strategically made and seen pay off.

They are moving forward with a motivated, more confident group, believing that a dominant defensive line will develop them into the next Nate Landman, Omar Speights, Drake Thomas, Devin Bush or Nakobe Dean.

“We’re always looking,” Tobin said. “This is a 12-month thing. This isn’t just a two-month thing, but in these two months, the opportunity wasn’t there to add to that group, and we accept that because we have guys that we believe in there.”

I think a part of this that isn't being talked about enough is Al Golden. How good of a defensive coordinator is he? I don't think we know

25 minutes ago, Sea Ray said:

I think a part of this that isn't being talked about enough is Al Golden. How good of a defensive coordinator is he? I don't think we know

Agreed. He was a solid pro LB coach who did good work with some young talent that got better, and made several key plays in the AFC playoffs during a SB run. Went to ND, where they out-talented most of their schedule and then lost in the CFB playoffs. As a college HC he didn’t have a good record at either Temple or the U.

While I do think he shows leadership … as a pro DC, jury is def still out for me.