fredtoast

He had a hard time getting credit from a large part of the bengal fan base. For years there were people claimming he should be moved to OG because he "could not handle speed rushers". I general I agree with letting older players go "a year too early instead of a year to late", but Whit was a rare exception. He was almost like a coach, and he was an amazing leader. He is the kind of guy who deserved to retire as a Bengal if he wanted. The move made by the Bengals was not "comical". In fact it was the same move most other teams in the league would make with an older player. But it still sucks for us fans. Just don't re-create history and try to claim that Whit left the Bengals because he thought he had a better chance of winning with the Rams. It was 100% about the money, and I don't blame him at all. This was most likely his last big contract.

In order to make this a "fair and balanced" thread I will now include my major criticism of Dalton. When he is bad he is very bad, and he has a lot of problems with consistency. People like to make fun of all my stats, but I think most people will agree that these accurately reflect the most frustrating aspect of being a Dalton fan. Since '11 only 6 QBs have more games with a passer rating of 120 or higher. Since '11 only 4 QBs have more games with a passer rating of 60 or lower.

Boomer Esiason's passing numbers in the '88 postseason are far worse than Dalton's postseason stats, yet Boomer is a god among many people here because that '88 Super Bowl team had the #1 rushing game in the league. From the very first post of this thread I have admitted that dalton has played poorly in all four playoff games, but the fact is i have seen him play enough very good games against very good teams to make me believe he can win in the playoffs. Here is a list of the QBs Dalton has beaten head-to-head when those opposing teams were division champions. Tom Brady Aaron Rodgers Russell Wilson P. Manning (the '14 "good" Manning not the '15 cripple) Andrew Luck Since '11 the Bengals are 7th in both total wins against playoff teams and winning percentage against playoff teams. They have not cracked into the "elite" status, but they are not helpless against these teams (except one)

Actually that has nothing to do with this thread. All I was doing was showing that just because a QB has played poorly in 4 or 5 games that does not mean he will always play like that.

Great point. More proof that Dalton's poor performances were not the reason we lost all 4 of those games. Football is a team sport and the entire Bengal team looked bad in those playoff losses.

Andy is very athletic and has the ability to scramble out of trouble, but he seems to have a hard time looking downfield while he is scrambling. That is what makes guys like Aaron Rodgers and Russell Wilson so effective. It is not just the athletic ability to scramble away from defenders. it is also the ability to keep looking downfield and finding open receivers while scrambling.

Joe Flacco's first 5 playoff games 47.5 completion percentage 132 passing yards per game 1 td 6 int Joe Flacco's last 10 playoff games 59.9 completion percentage 256 yards per game 24 td 4 int

A.J. Green in those same games 0 td 4 catches and 50 yards per game Does this mean A. J. Green sucks?

Dalton did not have to go to House to learn how to throw a deep pass. His overall production went up because he started getting some more receiving weapons in '14, but I don't think the efficiency of his deep passes was really that much better. As far as I know Dalton did not work with House until after the '13 season. Here are Andy's numbers on passes thrown more than 20 yards past the line of scrimmage. .........att.....rating '13.....67.....93.3 '14.....43.....82.1 '15.....51.....91.7 He not only attempted more deep passes in '13 he was also more efficient.

This makes no sense because there are lots of First round picks that flop. How else can you judge a coach except by how many of his players fail or succeed?

Also need to consider this when judging Andy's career. Since 2011 the Bengals rank 16th in rushing yards and 27th in yards per carry. So dalton has not had a good running game to play off of. Carson Wentz looked great this year, but a lot of that was due to him playing for a team that had the #3 rushing attack in the league. Tyrod Taylor has a higher career passer rating than dalton, but in his 3 years as a starter the Bills have the #1 rushing attack in the league. Dalton has not had a lot of talent at WR other than Green. In Andy's 7 years as a starter only 2 WRs other than Green ever had as much as 800 receiving yards (LaFell in '16 and Marvin Jones in '15), and only 3 others had as much as 700 (Jerome Simpson in '11, Jones in '13, Sanu in '14)

We all know he has played poorly in 4 playoff games, but so have the rest of the Bengals. I just don't see Dalton as the problem with this team. There are 35 active NFL QBs who have at least 1000 pass attempts since '11. Among those 35 Dalton ranks. 1st in td receptions (tied with 3 others) 2nd in rushing tds 3rd in "Fourth Quarter Comebacks" (per Profootballreference.com) 4th in rush attempts 4th in "4th Quarter Game Winning Drives" (per Profootballreference.com) 6th in wins (regular season) 6th in lowest fumble rate (fumble per pass attempt) 9th in passing yards 10th in passing tds 14th in passer rating Does he rank among the elite? No. Is he top half of the league? No doubt. Is he top 10? Questionable. His passing numbers alone suggest he is just slightly outside of the top ten, but when you also consider "rushing tds", "fumble rate", "Game Winning Drives", and "Fourth Quarter Comebacks" you could easily argue that he is a top ten overall QB.

Why look at just one team (Packers) to see if firing a coach works out? Why not look at every team in the league?

O-line coaches on teams whose head coaches were fired Bears...Jeremiah Washburn..Only one year experience as O-line coach....http://www.chicagobears.com/team/coaches/Jeremiah-Washburn/d944d39c-1c53-41f1-aff5-e80d5da0d3e8 Cards...Larry Zierlien...Many years of experience including Stealers O-line coach '07-'09, Browns O-line coach "01-'04.... http://www.azcardinals.com/team/coaches/larry-zierlein/e6c2c933-a9b8-4f53-b894-055699a5cfc8 Raiders...Mike Tice...Former Head Coach of Vikings. Extensive resume as O-line coach with multiple teams.... http://www.raiders.com/team/coaches/Mike-Tice/c8f0d85f-0d46-4ef2-b491-e067f0495645 Lions...Michael McCarthy...Only 1 year experience as O-line coach, only 3 years of NFL experience... http://www.detroitlions.com/team/coaches/michael-mccarthy/b017529e-7aea-40ca-a3ed-884f32a77800 Colts...Joe Philbin...Former Dolphins head coach... http://www.detroitlions.com/team/coaches/michael-mccarthy/b017529e-7aea-40ca-a3ed-884f32a77800 Colts...Joe Gilbert...Only 5 years NFL experience... http://www.detroitlions.com/team/coaches/michael-mccarthy/b017529e-7aea-40ca-a3ed-884f32a77800 Giants...Mike Solari...Best resume of the group....Extensive O-line experience with Niners, Seahawks and Chiefs... In Solari’s 18 seasons serving as an NFL team’s primary offensive line coach, his players combined for 25 Pro Bowl appearances and at least one of his players was selected to the Pro Bowl in 15 of those seasons.... http://www.giants.com/team/coaches/mike-solari/57832a7b-12b6-4be5-a71e-acf32c642e26 Giants...Lunda Wells...Assistant O-line coach...Only 5 years NFL experience...http://www.giants.com/team/coaches/tom-quinn/9110a6c8-4f9c-4760-a11e-2e277f765edc

When I mentioned Antwan Odom I think a lot of people just remember how he played here, but Odom was actually a highly rated free agents being pursued by multiple teams. In 2007 $30 million for 5 years was a decent contract for a starting DE. We also paid Nate Clements over $5 million a year in 2011. I think we will sign at least one free agent who is a solid starter. It sounds lame to get excited about something like that, but it is a rare occurrence with the Bengals.