Squirrlnutz

Yes Collins does have starting ability...for another team because we have a LT who gets paid like an LT and teams don't pay two LTs.  You can continue to move the roster around like its Madden but you're being disingenuous with how the team viewed its offensive line.  We have an LT they committed too, there wasn't a chance in hell they paid Collins starter money.  He had 5 years to earn the job and send Whitworth to guard.     Yes one soda bottle cap won a million dollars, better cash out that 401k and start buying soda so I can retire in style.  I suppose most teams should look to the 6th round for QBs since Tom Brady turned out so well.  Without a total number of QBs who changed teams and a gross estimation of success vs failure, the fact that a handful of teams won a superbowl with a QB they didn't draft means nothing, at least in the sense that you're peddling: "its happened once therefore its a good strategy for us to use."         Because it points out what you and everyone else is missing...the non-starter...the Bengals, like all other NFL teams, aren't/weren't looking for a new QB when the current one repeatedly gets them to the playoffs.  Once you understand that, everything else falls into place

Clearly my rage post earlier had me off my game. You are the only one who has ever tried to respond to me. So each one of these teams were coming off consecutive playoff berths and THEN in the off-season added a new QB because they were unsatisfied with the current one? None of them had the QB retire or his contract was up and they let him walk? I know a few of them went with guys already on their roster (Kapernick and Young) so that again misses the point...if you are getting to the playoffs the QB is doing his job and NFL teams dont abandon those QBs, if they want to change post season results they change coaches.

This thread is everything wrong with this board.  So much stupid and too much "madden" attitude towards team building.  There was absolutely no reason to sign our backup left tackle to a starters contract, and the moment they drafted Hunt, one of MJ or Dunlap was designated to leave.  How can people be so insanely dense that they can't understand this?   Not once has someone pointed out the number of new starting QBs who DIDN'T win an MVP or take their team to the playoffs or win a superbowl.  Sure it CAN happen, but the vast majority of QB additions don't do shit.  Like I've asked time and time and time and time again:   Show me a fucking team coming off two consecutive playoff berths who voluntarily changed QBs the next season...  ANYONE?!     Additionally, the decision to extend a QB is based on his regular season performance, his playoff performance shapes the money.  Dalton earned a new contract already.

  Because he has deficiencies you fucking moron...NOBODY has said otherwise.    Those who "defend" him are well aware that he's not the greatest....but unlike the rest of you mouth breathers we are keenly aware that his success is really, really unique and not something a reasonable NFL team would walk away from without a compelling plan B in place.

Are the Dalton haters that fucking dense?   For fucks sake people have been pissing and moaning for months now when 15, 16, 17, 18 mill/year numbers are thrown around for Dalton because "it would cripple the team's ability to retain other players and add new talent as well as hitch our train to a QB who chokes for the next 6 years."   When the rest of us have been saying "his value is at its lowest and he's good enough to get you to the playoffs every year while setting franchise records, extend him now WITH A CONTRACT YOU CAN GET OUT OF IN TWO YEARS because its the most logical thing to do given the difficulty of finding a new QB the NFL."   Suddenly, the people who would rather have us draft Nobody McNobody in the 2nd round next year and just fucking go with it because it can't possibly be as bad as paying Dalton monopoly money to keep winning more games every year, are realizing that maybe there is a middle ground.   It's nice outside when you take your head out of your ass.

  This is clouding the issue.  He was mentioned in that breath because of his physical skill set.  Matt Stafford is mentioned in those breaths as well because of his physical skill set.   The real question is did that skill set get us to where we wanted to be?  One time it came close, but every other time it failed.  I'll take Andy Dalton and 3 consecutive playoff berths over Matt Stafford and 10 million yards while going 2-28 against winning teams.   Skill set and scouting reports are still clouding the issue.  Someone quoted the guy I have on ignore and he had the fucking gall to say Carson could win games by himself?  What fucking games did he take the team on his back and win?  I seem to remember him having an atrocious time throughout his career when the pocket wasn't pretty.  When routes were a yard off there were a lot of INTs, and when things mattered against our rivals he seemed to have a knack for finding Polamalu wide open in the flat.  His last pass for us was a throw away on 4th down.  4th fucking down.   ANDY DALTON is consistently more successful in the regular season than Carson Palmer throughout his entire career.  You pay QBs with that consistancy, get it done.

Figured I would respond to one of the few real posts here. I think your stance makes sense. Though I do think people tend to get hung up on the thought of elite pay and getting locked into 5+ years of Dalton. Like you pointed out there is plenty of room for middle ground. If you approach the subject of the contract with 20 mil a year and 5 years leading the way, of course people start panicking and justifiably would rather not hitch themselves to him at those numbers. But I think if your frame the argument with the reality that sustained regular season success is difficult to achieve in the NFL, and that Andy's 3 years have resulted in the most successful stretch of our team's history during the regular season (as well as setting franchise records) it should be obvious that this sample size is just not big enough to totally judge the player. When you consider the difficulty any team would face replacing their QB with a draft pick in 20s (its been laid out numerous times by me but no one can point to a team with consecutive playoff berths that voluntarily changed QB in the past 3 decades) you can begin to see that maybe the middle ground is the best thing for the Bengals. By that I mean, we don't hitch our wagon to Andy for 5 more years at Peyton Manning money, nor do we plan to go in another direction next year. We sign him now while the leverage is ours with a deal that leaves us options after 2015. I think that will ultimately look like "elite money" but it should be structured so that if he is 0-5 in the playoffs after 2015 we are better prepared to part with him because A) We are now convinced he can't get it done in the clutch. And B ) have had two full seasons to develop a plan B (maybe AJ, maybe a FA next year or earlier draft pick). I definitely think people have been jaded by our success and if we had been 8-8 in 2011 and missed the playoffs and 9-7 in 2012 and missed the playoffs we would all probably be here hoping they get him locked up and looking forward to how he performs in his second trip to the post season. The grass is not greener with ZERO alternatives out there. 16 Sundays in the fall I think we can beat whoever takes the field...it hasn't always been that way, and an objective look around the league shows that we are in a much better spot than 2/3rd of the teams, that's why I think its imperative we do what is necessary to ensure that success for another few years.

With our cap situation I see no reason why he has to. I have no problem if they want to honor his contract and play him minimally in a reserve role.

no

  Gruden seemed to approach every single play as if it was a blank whiteboard.  Completely independent from the play before, 9 plays ago, the last scoring drive, the scoreboard, the clock etc.  Every play seemed to be disconnected.  I am very hopeful that Hue's approach is radically different, very much pragmatic, just get the win.  If running left is working, run left until its not working anymore.  If drag routes are getting it done, then there is a drag route on every play until they figure out how to stop it.

I am hopeful Lamur becomes the guy many envision but I'm definitely in the "prove it" camp.  I was pretty reluctant to like Vinny Rey at first, but once he played regularly he impacted games just as much as Burfict and I'd think he was inline to get more playing time.  But their small RFA offer and lack of interest from other teams would indicate otherwise I guess.   I expect Dre to make a big impact.  If you watched the Cowboys preseason game and the final 3 games of the year and aren't convinced he made enormous leaps during those 18 weeks, I'm not sure what would convince you.  The trouble with the biting on the double move is 100% a Mike Zimmer/Marvin Lewis scheme issue and not a "Dre" issue.  Every CB that has played under those two gets smoked on that move from time to time because they are taught to be aggressive and expect our front four to disrupt the timing enough so that double moves are not possible.  Most of the time they are not possible, but when it happens the CB is left looking like a shmuck. I think Dre/Dennard send Newman to the bench and possibly make him a cut day casualty depending on Hall's health.

  Yeah its nice having the 5th year option on AJ.  The cap situation is set up to extend all these guys over two years as well as pay for two "franchise tags" at the same time if necessary. I imagine they are telling Andy's camp that they will use the franchise tag if necessary and sticking around that 15 number.  Dalton's camp would be stupid to not start the conversation at Flacco's contract, but it would be pretty sensible to split the difference and agree this year.  If not, he may face two prove-it years because he can play well and still not come to terms at the end of 2014 so he gets franchised and has to do it again.  Or he will tank and bring his value down with him.   My money is on deals for both Dalton and Burfict before week 1.

  Pat Angerer lead the league in tackles 2-3 years ago...I wonder if he's still in the league?   Just pointing out that Alleycat is right (about Dalton's production earning a second contract) and you're trying to move the goalposts.

That photo is where my name came from, AIM circa 2000.