BJ...you were in Africa....question

[Guest CTBengalsFan]

Another interesting perspective:

If you look at the evolution of cultures you will see that the most productive, industrious cultures come from people who live in an area where they must survive through winter every year. This causes them to plan ahead because for 4-6 months of the year they won't be able to grow crops or hunt, and they have to find a way to stay warm. This causes people to adapt to their situation through innovations on how to do everything in life more efficiently, and thus be able to accomplish more.

However, throughout time, people in Africa only had to live day to day because the weather doesn't really change much near the equator and food is readily available year round. This means they don't have to innovate new things such as cement or metal because there aren't the elements like snow and rain beating down on their huts to force them to make them out of something stronger. Therefore, as a culture they have remained stagnant because there has been nothing that has forced them to advance.

Then when the cultures who have to survive winter advanced to a point where they could easily control these less advanced cultures through knowledge and technology, they took advantage because they were able to cash in on it.
throughout

[Guest BlackJesus]

[quote]Another interesting perspective:

If you look at the evolution of cultures you will see that the most productive, industrious cultures come from people who live in an area where they must survive through winter every year. This causes them to plan ahead because for 4-6 months of the year they won't be able to grow crops or hunt, and they have to find a way to stay warm. This causes people to adapt to their situation through innovations on how to do everything in life more efficiently, and thus be able to accomplish more.

However, throughout time, people in Africa only had to live day to day because the weather doesn't really change much near the equator and food is readily available year round. This means they don't have to innovate new things such as cement or metal because there aren't the elements like snow and rain beating down on their huts to force them to make them out of something stronger. Therefore, as a culture they have remained stagnant because there has been nothing that has forced them to advance.

Then when the cultures who have to survive winter advanced to a point where they could easily control these less advanced cultures through knowledge and technology, they took advantage because they were able to cash in on it.
throughout[/quote]


[i][color="blue"][b]With all due respect CT.... This Argument is pure unadulturated Bullshit ....... [img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons//3.gif[/img] [/b][/color][/i]


[b]Many of the developments that Europe reeped and used to conquer most of the world came from elsewhere. While Europe was wallowing around in the dark ages fucking pigs, Parts of the Middle East already had highly advanced astronomy, mathematics (the #'s we use now) art, the Southern Mediteranean developed philosophy and many of the aspects of Govt we have today, the Chinese were the ones to discover Gun Powder, they just didn't think "hey lets shoot people with it", The Indonesians had highly developed forms of Navigation long before the Europeans, the Aztecs had the largest city in the World in Mexico, the Egyptians built the pyramids and we still can't figure out how it was done.... TImbuktu in Africa was the Venice for the entire continent for most of the first 2-3 centuries of the dark ages in Europe.....

I don't even know where to start with this arguement.... [/b]

[Beaker]

There is something to his argument BJ. I think he's coming at it more from the angle of planning ahead and preparing for consequences as a cultural paradigm vs instant gratification and living day to day. Not so much that the europeans had more tech or were more advanced.

[Guest CTBengalsFan]

[quote name='BlackJesus' date='Jun 3 2005, 02:49 AM'][i][color="blue"][b]With all due respect CT....  This Argument is pure unadulturated Bullshit .......  [img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons//3.gif[/img] [/b][/color][/i]
[b]Many of the developments that Europe reeped and used to conquer most of the world came from elsewhere.  While Europe was wallowing around in the dark ages fucking pigs, Parts of the Middle East already had highly advanced astronomy, mathematics (the #'s we use now) art, the Southern Mediteranean developed philosophy and many of the aspects of Govt we have today, the Chinese were the ones to discover Gun Powder, they just didn't think "hey lets shoot people with it", The Indonesians had highly developed forms of Navigation long before the Europeans, the Aztecs had the largest city in the World in Mexico, the Egyptians built the pyramids and we still can't figure out how it was done.... TImbuktu in Africa was the Venice for the entire continent for most of the first 2-3 centuries of the dark ages in Europe.....

I don't even know where to start with this arguement....  [/b]
[right][post="98990"][/post][/right][/quote]

yes, but the societies that had to survive a winter that I'm referring to (countries like England, France, Germany, Holland, etc.) were also founded MUCH LATER than the middle eastern/asian/other groups you mentioned, and they then leap frogged them pretty quickly into their existence compared to how long those other groups had been around.

[KingStripes]

I was going to post something like the CT thread but from a different perspective.
When people have everything, they stay content, and they never work to better themselves.
The richest place in Mexico is Chiapas. This is THE state, it has everything, you could turn it into an agricultural heaven, a cultural heaven. It has sweet water, sea, jungle, arid climate, it has everything, belive me it is a paradise.
Yet for some reason it is the poorest state by far. I usually go yearly to Chiapas on catholic missions, and you see people with their land (I swear that you throw a seed in the ground and in weeks you have a plant of whatever you threw into the ground with no help, all natural), anyway people have their land, and they just do exactly what they need to do to survive.
From 12 in the morning until dark, they stay at home, and they lay on their hamacas, just laying there, doing nothing, extracted from this world by TV. they just lose all their afternoons "resting".
They know that if they do almost nothing they will still eat, and that is all they care about. They never care about taking care of the water because they have plenty, so they just let it flow and dont care.
But the problem comes in with globalized economy, because they have no needs, they dont need a computer, they dont need a car, all they need is their hamaca and their TV. But then come americans or rich people that start buying their land at good prices and start using them as workers, then they have to work like slaves in the field, for a little pay, because they cant eat.
So it is a vicious cicle that until they realize the potential of the land and what they have they will never explote it as we know it, they will be (sorry for the comparison) like animals, all they will do is take what they need and leave the rest for the another day. They never think about getting a big farm with workers, they just live to survive the day.

I think this relates to the problem in africa, because they have everything and they never work on anything until its too late.

[KingStripes]

To sum it up better:

There is a beautiful story about a fisherman. I cant remember it perfectly, but here it goes.

There was a fisherman that everyday went fishing in his little panga (small boat for 2) and everyday he would fish and get his food for the day, go back to his family and they stayed together and ate and just did nothing the rest of the day (he had a very little home and a small piece of land). One day an American came, and he was surprised by the opportunity the place had. He started dreaming of fishing by the dozens, putting a big boat with hundreds of fishermen and put a factory in the place that could turn into a class A export of fish into every country and make millions and millions of dollars. He then went on and told the little fishermen that he would put all the money and everything needed, and the fisherman would just have to be the leader of the other fishermen and get a group of fishermen together to complete their so beloved millionaire factory.
So the American offered, and the fisherman declined, and he offered a better percentage, and the fisherman declined, and the American was surprised and astonished, he couldn’t understand why he wouldn’t take him up on the offer, it was a sure way to get millions of dollars, why would he not want it??. So he went and asked the fisherman why in the world he not accepted.
The fisherman then told him. Ok I’m sure we can get millions of dollars with this project, but what would it take??. First I would have to work 12 hours a day to get all the people together, work in a tie, a suit, have to deal with problems every day, get worn down, not see my family. . Then the American said, yes for sure, but it would only last for about 5 years, and then you would be a millionaire, wouldn’t you want that???.
So the fisherman responded, and with the millions of dollars I would retire, and never work anymore. But then what would I do???. I would go out fishing, for my days meal but instead of in a panga in a yatch, I would come home and spend the afternoon with my family, but instead of in my little home, in my big mansion.
So to sum it all up, I would work for 5 years, with sweat tears and problems, just to get to what I am doing now???. Thanks but I am happy with what I have.

This story is just a little thing they shared with me, in order to let me understand that they are happy the way they are, and that in their eyes, they don’t need anything else to make them happy. All the Value added stuff we have come to need, for them its like aliens, and they just don’t care.

[Guest CTBengalsFan]

[quote name='KingStripes' date='Jun 4 2005, 11:03 AM']I was going to post something like the CT thread but from a different perspective.
When people have everything, they stay content, and they never work to better themselves.
The richest place in Mexico is Chiapas. This is THE state, it has everything, you could turn it into an agricultural heaven, a cultural heaven. It has sweet water, sea, jungle, arid climate, it has everything, belive me it is a paradise.
Yet for some reason it is the poorest state by far. I usually go yearly to Chiapas on catholic missions, and you see people with their land (I swear that you throw a seed in the ground and in weeks you have a plant of whatever you threw into the ground with no help, all natural), anyway people have their land, and they just do exactly what they need to do to survive.
From 12 in the morning until dark, they stay at home, and they lay on their hamacas, just laying there, doing nothing, extracted from this world by TV. they just lose all their afternoons "resting".
They know that if they do almost nothing they will still eat, and that is all they care about. They never care about taking care of the water because they have plenty, so they just let it flow and dont care.
But the problem comes in with globalized economy, because they have no needs, they dont need a computer, they dont need a car, all they need is their hamaca and their TV. But then come americans or rich people that start buying their land at good prices and start using them as workers, then they have to work like slaves in the field, for a little pay, because they cant eat.
So it is a vicious cicle that until they realize the potential of the land and what they have they will never explote it as we know it, they will be (sorry for the comparison) like animals, all they will do is take what they need and leave the rest for the another day. They never think about getting a big farm with workers, they just live to survive the day.

I think this relates to the problem in africa, because they have everything and they never work on anything until its too late.
[right][post="99397"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote]

yes, that is the point I was trying to get across. When you have to plan ahead for a 4-6 month period you can't afford to be idle.