Beaker Posted June 1, 2005 Report Share Posted June 1, 2005 This question has been provoking thought in me. I would love to hear opinions as to why this is....especially BJs since he's spent time there living among: Why cant the continent of Africa get itself together? Africa has lots of land, huge amounts of natural resources and plenty of available labor. Modern humans have been in Africa for 30-50,000 yrs, and they best they can do is continent wide famine and starving children with a few pockets of industrialized cities (South Africa, Nigeria, Kenya, etc). We came to North America 200 yrs ago and already have built this nation to an economic power. Why cant Africa do better? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bengalrick Posted June 1, 2005 Report Share Posted June 1, 2005 great question.. i admit, i've never thought about it necessarily, but it doesn't make sense... i'll be interested in reading others (especially bj's) responses, but my opinion is that there are a variety of reasons... their culture/religion stops them from doing a lot of things... they are corrupt to the core... they have a bunch of tribes, w/ no real laws, and no organization... that is my 2 cents... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BlackJesus Posted June 1, 2005 Report Share Posted June 1, 2005 [b]Several things 1. During those 200 years Americans benefited from several million free laborers (slaves) and deported over 30 million africans from the continent. 2. The United States also benefited from a huge influx of wealth that comes from seizing an entire Nation the size of Europe from the indigenous people that lived here. 3. Some of the Economic misery in Africa is a direct result of the prosperity here in America. An economic structure of extrememe disadvantage is in place that makes it very difficult for African nations to aquire wealth and thus investment. This leads them to have to take large loans from the IMF and the world bank at high interest rates just to build roads. Thus as they add to their wealth they are constantly paying back hugh interest payments to the worldbank and can never get ahead 4. Aids is ripping the continent apart. Christianity has led Africans to believe that they shouldn't use condoms (Sin) and the primary form of intercourse since contraception is not available is Anal sex = this equates to a higher infection rate. Add on top of this the extreme poverty that leads many young women to go to prostituion as a means to eat and the transmission sky rockets. (When I was there the avg prostitute was 1 or 2 $) 5. The European colonizers also drew the borders for Africa wrong. They did not take into account ethnicity, religion, or heritage etc, and instead used a cookie cutter approach to divide the entire continent. They also pitted groups against eachother which left long term hatred into affect. For instance the Belgiums in Rwanda declared anyone with more than 10 cows a Tutsi and anyone who owned less cows a Hutu. The tutsis were a small amjority and this created resentment which led to a backlash in 1994 (Rwandan genocide) 6. Most of those resources are not owned by Africans - The Chinese own most of the Oil fields in N Africa, the Americans and British own most of the oil fields in West Africa. All of the diamond mines in S AFrica are owned abroad and they usually pit rival groups against eachother that leads to a war for diamonds. For every 100 diamonds in America they estimate 1 child loses a limb in Africa. 7. There also is no infrastructure to get these resources to foriegn markets no roads, developed ports etc. And even if they could they would have to rely on foriegn investment to fund it. 8. Brian drain - most of the highly educated Africans who study in the US or abroad like the West and don't return leaving an exodus of intelligence. 9. Corrupt leaders - the poverty leads to a survival method of clan warfare where the winning clans often gets the means for survival. Couple this with corrupt leadership who skims alot of the aid the West gives and the $ never reaches the poor. 10. Lack of schools, teachers, educated parents - Education takes time, and there aren't enough teachers, thus you can't teach many students at a time, and it is expensive to go to school , leaving most kids to farm instead to eat. reversal of this cycle takes decades. But many parents are dying of aids leaving street children wandering the streets. 11. Language - in Tanzania alone there are over 100 languages and the continent has over 2,000. this lack of continuity makes commerce hard and any kind of foriegn exchange difficult. 12. Drug trafficing, the opium and narcotic trade of central Asia uses C Africa as a route to smuggle drugs America. They rely on street children whose parents have died of Aids. These kids are often hooked on the drug and payed with it. They are often armed with machetes and run the streets wildly. (I saw several attacks by these groups while there) 13. Currency, the continent has som many currencys and none are strong. this leads to high inflation and the money constantly deflates. because of this the people who do have wealth take their $ and put it in US banks where it will be safe. Ths there is no $ for the banks there to laon to entepreneurs [/b] I will right more later Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bengalrick Posted June 1, 2005 Report Share Posted June 1, 2005 "4. Aids is ripping the continent apart. [b]Christianity[/b] has led Africans to believe that they shouldn't use condoms (Sin) and the primary form of intercourse since contraception is not available is Anal sex = this equates to a higher infection rate. Add on top of this the extreme poverty that leads many young women to go to prostituion as a means to eat and the transmission sky rockets. (When I was there the avg prostitute was 1 or 2 $)" correction bj... christianity as a religion doesn't necessarily disagree w/ birth control/condoms... only old school catholics believe that... personally i'm baptist, and don't disagree w/ condoms... i don't like them (for personal reasons, not religious reasons) , but i don't disagree w/ them... saying christianity in general is the reason, is to broad of an explaination imo... <edit> and if they thought so highly of christianity, to not use condoms, then why do they have anal sex, which is definately against any of the christian values? not trying to be a smartass, i just want to know? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BengalsCat Posted June 1, 2005 Report Share Posted June 1, 2005 [quote name='BlackJesus' date='Jun 1 2005, 05:35 PM'][b]Several things 1. [B]During those 200 years Americans benefited from several million free laborers (slaves) and deported over 30 million africans from the continent.[/b] You know it was africa that sold it self into slavery. They captured one another and sold them to america.. Sooooooooooooooooooooo america didnt deport those people u deported them urself. [/b] I will right more later [right][post="98316"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BadassBengal Posted June 1, 2005 Report Share Posted June 1, 2005 [quote name='BengalsCat' date='Jun 1 2005, 04:49 PM']You know it was africa that sold it self into slavery. They captured one another and sold them to america.. Sooooooooooooooooooooo america didnt deport those people u deported them urself. [right][post="98321"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote] Yea, so it was ok for the US to keep them and use them as slaves for YEARS because they were sold to em. Right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest steggyD Posted June 1, 2005 Report Share Posted June 1, 2005 To blame the West on Africa's problems is not so right. If they were the first to have humans, then they should have had their shit together long before the Americas were discovered. Then if they had their shit together, people would not have been able to take advantage of them, by buying up their mines and fields, and taking slaves. Many different people have been enslaved anyways and have come out of it OK. Their lack of organization is what made it so easy to be taken advantage of. Just my 2 cents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie_B Posted June 1, 2005 Report Share Posted June 1, 2005 Its been a while since I had a Western Civ class.... but didnt some of the Africans take slaves themselves, as well as turn some of the ones over to the white man? Like I said it's been a while and I dont remember. (Serious question, not being a smartass) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BengalsOwn Posted June 1, 2005 Report Share Posted June 1, 2005 [quote name='bengalrick' date='Jun 1 2005, 04:43 PM']"4. Aids is ripping the continent apart. [b]Christianity[/b] has led Africans to believe that they shouldn't use condoms (Sin) and the primary form of intercourse since contraception is not available is Anal sex = this equates to a higher infection rate. Add on top of this the extreme poverty that leads many young women to go to prostituion as a means to eat and the transmission sky rockets. (When I was there the avg prostitute was 1 or 2 $)" correction bj... christianity as a religion doesn't necessarily disagree w/ birth control/condoms... only old school catholics believe that... personally i'm baptist, and don't disagree w/ condoms... i don't like them (for personal reasons, not religious reasons) , but i don't disagree w/ them... saying christianity in general is the reason, is to broad of an explaination imo... <edit> and if they thought so highly of christianity, to not use condoms, then why do they have anal sex, which is definately against any of the christian values? not trying to be a smartass, i just want to know? [right][post="98319"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote] Can I get an amen? Also, it's kind of funny that of course, America is to blame for the bad decisions non-Americans make. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Storm Posted June 2, 2005 Report Share Posted June 2, 2005 Lets not let facts get in the way of some of your opinions! Africa has more enslaved people right now than anywhere in the world! I guess thats our fault too! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|Bunghole| Posted June 2, 2005 Report Share Posted June 2, 2005 I beleive many of the reasons that BJ posted about why Africa hasn't "got it's shit together" have validity, particularly those points that focus on the way the many Western hands divided the "pie", and the fact that Africa is so culturally diverse that an American-style homogonezation of ideals, not the least of which is racial/tribal/religious tolerance, seems well nigh impossible... My 4000th post...what a long strange trip it's been...countless hours of typing opinions and reading opinions of complete strangers who have become my dysfunctional internet "family"...I love you guys.... Screw you guys, I'm going home...wait, I am already here...well, screw you guys anyway... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beaker Posted June 2, 2005 Author Report Share Posted June 2, 2005 [quote name='BlackJesus' date='Jun 1 2005, 09:35 PM'][b]Several things 1. During those 200 years Americans benefited from several million free laborers (slaves) and deported over 30 million africans from the continent.[/qoute] Well, they have a huge labor force available now. And the slave labor built the south (agricultural based) which ended up not working out. So the free labor wasnt the primary factor in the ascent of the US economically. Why cant that indigenous labor force be turned inwards? [quote]2. The United States also benefited from a huge influx of wealth that comes from seizing an entire Nation the size of Europe from the indigenous people that lived here.[/quote] The Africans have an even larger continent to work with and they are the indigenous people. [quote]3. Some of the Economic misery in Africa is a direct result of the prosperity here in America. An economic structure of extreme disadvantage is in place that makes it very difficult for African nations to aquire wealth and thus investment. This leads them to have to take large loans from the IMF and the world bank at high interest rates just to build roads. Thus as they add to their wealth they are constantly paying back hugh interest payments to the worldbank and can never get ahead[/quote] Wealth is not acquired by countries it is built. That is my point exactly. They have the available resources and labor (to build roads and such) but it doesnt get done. Is it politcally blocked, or is it an atitude of apathy, or something else? I ask you because you were among the people, did you get a feel for their attitude towards their own plight? I know they dont like it, but why dont they act? [quote]4. Aids is ripping the continent apart. Christianity has led Africans to believe that they shouldn't use condoms (Sin) and the primary form of intercourse since contraception is not available is Anal sex = this equates to a higher infection rate. Add on top of this the extreme poverty that leads many young women to go to prostituion as a means to eat and the transmission sky rockets. (When I was there the avg prostitute was 1 or 2 $)[/quote] What is blocking the people being educated about AIDS and how it is transmitted? [quote]5. The European colonizers also drew the borders for Africa wrong. They did not take into account ethnicity, religion, or heritage etc, and instead used a cookie cutter approach to divide the entire continent. They also pitted groups against eachother which left long term hatred into affect. For instance the Belgiums in Rwanda declared anyone with more than 10 cows a Tutsi and anyone who owned less cows a Hutu. The tutsis were a small amjority and this created resentment which led to a backlash in 1994 (Rwandan genocide)[/quote] I understand tribal differences, but is there no big picture outlook, or are they all just concerned with their own interests? [quote]6. Most of those resources are not owned by Africans - The Chinese own most of the Oil fields in N Africa, the Americans and British own most of the oil fields in West Africa. All of the diamond mines in S AFrica are owned abroad and they usually pit rival groups against eachother that leads to a war for diamonds. For every 100 diamonds in America they estimate 1 child loses a limb in Africa. 7. There also is no infrastructure to get these resources to foriegn markets no roads, developed ports etc. And even if they could they would have to rely on foriegn investment to fund it.[/quote] I think infrastructure is a huge part of it. But then that goes back to the whole resources vs available labor thing to build the infrastructure. [quote]8. Brian drain - most of the highly educated Africans who study in the US or abroad like the West and don't return leaving an exodus of intelligence. 9. Corrupt leaders - the poverty leads to a survival method of clan warfare where the winning clans often gets the means for survival. Couple this with corrupt leadership who skims alot of the aid the West gives and the $ never reaches the poor. 10. Lack of schools, teachers, educated parents - Education takes time, and there aren't enough teachers, thus you can't teach many students at a time, and it is expensive to go to school , leaving most kids to farm instead to eat. reversal of this cycle takes decades. But many parents are dying of aids leaving street children wandering the streets. 11. Language - in Tanzania alone there are over 100 languages and the continent has over 2,000. this lack of continuity makes commerce hard and any kind of foriegn exchange difficult.[/quote] All excellent points, but why cant Africans see this and start putting steps in place to overcome it. If you and I can figure this out, why cant their leaders? 12. Drug trafficing, the opium and narcotic trade of central Asia uses C Africa as a route to smuggle drugs America. They rely on street children whose parents have died of Aids. These kids are often hooked on the drug and payed with it. They are often armed with machetes and run the streets wildly. (I saw several attacks by these groups while there) 13. Currency, the continent has som many currencys and none are strong. this leads to high inflation and the money constantly deflates. because of this the people who do have wealth take their $ and put it in US banks where it will be safe. Ths there is no $ for the banks there to laon to entepreneurs [/b] I will right more later [right][post="98316"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right] [/quote] Mind you, Im not trying to rip you. But these points are all pretty obvious. What is blocking Africans from overcoming them? Early Americans faced language and religious differences, a tyrannical nation trying to hold them down, no infrastructure, no single currency (until later), lack of an educational system, and diseases, famine and starvation. All of those things were hindering early Americans and parallel the Afican plight. What America had was abundant natural resources, and people willing to work and develope them. Africa has the resources, why dont they get developed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beaker Posted June 2, 2005 Author Report Share Posted June 2, 2005 Sorry about that post being messy. I guess I didnt use the quotes right. But try to read my responses following your points and see if it makes sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest CTBengalsFan Posted June 2, 2005 Report Share Posted June 2, 2005 They're just in an endless cycle that if left to their own devices is not going to change... ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BengalBacker Posted June 2, 2005 Report Share Posted June 2, 2005 Admit it Beaker. You heard Bill Cunningham ask his guest that same question today, didn't you? BTW, I agree with all of your responses to BJ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BlackJesus Posted June 2, 2005 Report Share Posted June 2, 2005 [color="red"]quotes from others are in Red.... Quote feature is fucked up [/color] [b][color="blue"]Since I am one person responding to several I will do my best to answer what has been asked of me and comment on what others have noted[/color] [color="red"]correction bj... christianity as a religion doesn't necessarily disagree w/ birth control/condoms... only old school catholics believe that... [/color] This is just an issue of deductive logic if some catholics consider themselves christian and some catholics are against birth control... then some christians are against birth control. But I note the difference of course, there are many sects of christianity that all go by the same vague title of "christian" as in ie. believer in Christ [color="red"]and if they thought so highly of christianity, to not use condoms, then why do they have anal sex, which is definately against any of the christian values? not trying to be a smartass, i just want to know? [/color] The area I was in has a avg salary of .80 cents a day and a condom cost one dollar. Thus it is not economically feasible to use condoms. The anal sex method is more of a way to avoid pregnancy although it has dire consequences for aids contraction. Also the Catholic church doesn't give much lip service to anal prevention anywhere in the world, it has gotten buried with all of the other old testament leviticus comical rules like selling your nieghbors wife into slavery if she stones your cow [color="red"]You know it was africa that sold it self into slavery. They captured one another and sold them to america.. Sooooooooooooooooooooo america didnt deport those people u deported them urself. [/color] Not sure what you mean by "u" I am not african, but to your point of course Africans aided in the capture of slaves. And the worst part is that before the Americans began enslaving West Africans in the 16-19th century, the Arabs in the Middle East were enslaving south eastern africans from the 12th-14th centuries as well . (Why the capital of Oman was Zanzibar, an isle of Tanzania) However this doesn't excuse the act or take away from the economic benefit to the US or the econimic harm to Africa. [color="red"]To blame the West on Africa's problems is not so right[/color] Are all of the problems directly related to the West - No but many are. In this case Europe is even more culpable to damage to africa than America when you factor in the period of Colonialism 1910-1950 [color="red"] If they were the first to have humans, then they should have had their shit together long before the Americas were discovered.[/color] Some of the greatest empires the world had ever seen were in Africa. The Egyptians and the pyramids, Timbuktu and parts of Mali had scholars and palaces and arts etc.... however the portugese destrpyed most of the Malian empire to sell them into slavery... and the fact that Whites had Gunpowder (great Book = Guns,germs and steel) it allowed a small group of whites a few hundred to defeat thousands of africans at a time. [color="red"]Also, it's kind of funny that of course, America is to blame for the bad decisions non-Americans make. [/color] If a man in America will pay 3,000 $ for a small shiny rock so that he can give it to his wife, and that gives the incentive for an African war lord to recruit 40 men and arm them with machine guns and kill a village to get that rock, how is the American man completley innocent. He is creating the market and demand for the shiny rock and paying such a price that makes it worth it to the war lord to fund private armies to get those rocks. [color="red"]Africa has more enslaved people right now than anywhere in the world! I guess thats our fault too! [/color] It is true that right now Africa has chattel Slavery (in Sudan) .... I have done work with the DInka group in Southern Sudan and what you have there is the Muslims who live in the north (Khartoum) who are selling the oil fields in the south to the Chinese for export. The Southern DInka rebels who are a separatist group have been involved in a long civil war for independence and thus the North has been selling them into slavery (mostly sex slaves, but also laborers) This is mostly the Chinese fault and the Arabs in the North of Sudan [color="red"]Well, they have a huge labor force available now. And the slave labor built the south (agricultural based) which ended up not working out. So the free labor wasnt the primary factor in the ascent of the US economically. Why cant that indigenous labor force be turned inwards?[/color] Yes slaves in the south worked in Agriculture but this wealth spilled into other areas. by owning a large plantation you could then buy stock or invest in other businesses, and by having slaves you grew cotton and crops which kept enriching other endeavors. [color="red"]The Africans have an even larger continent to work with and they are the indigenous people. [/color] American wealth from Land siezure was effective for this reason. Once the state could claim huge swaths of land and not pay for it they could then find rich europeans or foriegners and sell those swaths to them for huge amounts. Most of these europeans then moved here as well. Effectivley that adds wealth for no producing anything.... (well I guess the Torches for the Teepees did cost something ) In Africa the indigeneuos people have never had control of the land for the most part. Although European countires don;t have them as colonies anymore... most of the land is still ownned by foriegn whites. The few countires that do try and take their land back like (Zimbabwe) recently, get labored as terrorists and thus all of the Western Banks and whites pull out leaving nothing. So they are left having to play along with the "Game" just to eat [color="red"]They have the available resources and labor (to build roads and such) but it doesnt get done. Is it politcally blocked, or is it an atitude of apathy, or something else? I ask you because you were among the people, did you get a feel for their attitude towards their own plight? I know they dont like it, but why dont they act?[/color] It is not just as easy as saying "build a road"... for instance let me use this situation - I was in a small african village many times and I thought "a road would be very useful here" now here are the problems - There is no economic benefit to building one there and no tax base to pay for it - there are no roads nearby to drive the cement to that spot from - You could import cement but the roads from the port do not stretch out to the village so you can't get the supplies out there - there are not educated road technicians or engineers - where is the $ going to come from to pay the men for building the road etc etc etc etc you see this ith water pipes, electric poles etc. The only way to invest in these things is high taxes The US had a 90 % tax rate before JFK (if you were a multi millionaire you payed 90 % to the US govt) this allowed America nder FDR to build a national highway system, canals, roads, electric infrastructure, etetc The IMF and the Worldbank have made these countries agree that they wil not socialize their taxes like the US used to be so the African govts cant get the $ to build the roads [color="red"]What is blocking the people being educated about AIDS and how it is transmitted?[/color] Lack of literacy, lack of language understanding, social tabboos about talking about sex (it is the equivalent in some areas there as talking about pedophilia here)[/b] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beaker Posted June 2, 2005 Author Report Share Posted June 2, 2005 [quote name='BengalBacker' date='Jun 2 2005, 03:42 AM']Admit it Beaker. You heard Bill Cunningham ask his guest that same question today, didn't you? BTW, I agree with all of your responses to BJ. [right][post="98449"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote] Exactly, and it got me thinking. I thought of BJ because of the pics he posted having been there and thought he could have some good insight. Its an interesting question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Bengal_Smoov Posted June 2, 2005 Report Share Posted June 2, 2005 I spent 4 months in West Africa around the turn of the century, Accra, Ghana to be exact.. I experienced many things while I was there and learned so much more. First let me say that this was my first time traveling out of the Western Hemisphere, if you never done it, you must, it's critical to your surivial, seriously..Until you get out the Western Hemisphere you won't realize how slanted American's see the world..Americans are so used to being #1, half of the country thinks America is only country in the world, when in reality we are just one 153 or whatever... Africa is divided into 2 parts Sahara Africa and Sub-Saharan Africa, Sub-Sahara Africa is what most people think of when they refer to Africa..The rape and colonialization of Africa is the greatest crime in the history of mans, imo.. Unfortunately debt and poor leadership are two biggest problems that plauge Sub-Saharan Africa, besides the wars, famine, droughts, and disease(sounds like they're cursed)..When countries have to pay for their freedom, get in debt and if they don't dance for the IMF and World Bank then they don't eat..The World Bank and IMF control Africa, did you know that Africa supplies Europe for the majority of ALL OF THEIR RAW MATERIALS, STAPLE FOODS, and everything in between. Without the produce, oil, cattle, anything else they want from Africa, Europian countries would be broke from importing... Most countries consist of a population of people who have little opportunities for education and a booming economy. The leaders have been corrupted by instiutionalized brainwashing, the colonization of Africa is very sad...While I was at the University of Ghana, I took an African History course..the professor actually told the students that Africa basically had no history until the European settlers came..that put the icing on the cake..The American media has played a vicious trick on us though, they way they portray Africa is far from the truth..in some ways.. Guys like Bono who go around the world campgaining for debt relief understand the quandry that is modern day Africa..however change is coming..Some African nations have gotten together to bring up the continient as a whole, similar to the European Union , but there is some hope.. A fair step in the right direction would be debt forgiveness, considering colonization and all...This would give some nations a chance to build infrastructure and build econmies...did you know there are no car manufactoring companies on the whole continitent..but I digress.. Africa is a beautiful country full of beautiful people, I love the currency exchange rate , although these pass few years are have been tough on the dollar..I'm going to East Africa when I get the chance...If Jeb is elected, it might be sooner then later..[url="http://www.shashamane.org/"]Shashamane Land here I come!!![/url] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BlackJesus Posted June 2, 2005 Report Share Posted June 2, 2005 [b]Smoov.... spoken like an American who has been abroad and seen the world ... nicely done [/b] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BlackJesus Posted June 2, 2005 Report Share Posted June 2, 2005 [i]Also smoov if you think of East Africe let me know... that is my old stomping ground in Tanzania .... I am fluent in Swahili also .... lessons over the internet ?[/i] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Henrys Dealer Posted June 2, 2005 Report Share Posted June 2, 2005 Someone mentioned that African's sold each other into slavery. That's not really accurate. If you look through history, you'll notice that the biggest slave traders were the Arabs. Basically the Al-Thani tribe (who now rule Qatar), the Hurriat were the biggest traders. They established trading links to the West and sold these guys on. To this day there's still a fair bit of racism between the "White Arabs" (Lebanon, Jordan, Syria, Iraq to a degree, to the "Brown Arabs" (United Arab Emirates, Kuwait, Saudi Arabia, Qatar, Bahrain, etc. - these guys have all the oil though) and the "Black Arabs" (e.g. Sudan, Somalia, Mali, Chad) BJ hit the points on all the head. I think the biggest thing though is the drawing of borders by colonial powers. A prime example is Nigeria. The country was mishmashed together combining tribes like the Hausa, Fulani, Yoruba, Igbo, Ijaw, Kanuri etc. They didn't have much history together before colonial times. So already there you have the potential for fracturing. Throw religion into the mix and you have a southern Christian state and a Muslim North, and it gets more complicated. Add Africa's biggest oil reserves to the mix, shitloads of corruption, and you have the permanently volatile state that characterizes Nigeria. BJ, when were you in Tanzania? I was there two years ago. My cousin married a South African and they live in Jo'Burg, so I checked out S. Africa, Tanzania, Botswana and Kenya. Tanzania was dope. Cheap beer, I had some friends there, good beaches. We're trying to get a group together here to go climb Kilimanjaro next year. I had been to Egypt in the 90's with my parents, but I found that pretty much like the Middle East, e.g. Arabic country. The only Swahili I remembered was "Mokundu, mwanu haramu, mnene" I think it was something about doing a chick, but my Tanzanian buddy probably lied. Smoov...can you confirm please that Ghanian ladies are incredibly hot? There are these two sisters who live on my floor here. Both smoking. Anytime they have parties, the eye candy that comes out of the apartment is incredible. Maybe I can send the woman on a vacation and then swing an invite to the next jam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Bengal_Smoov Posted June 2, 2005 Report Share Posted June 2, 2005 [quote name='Stanley Wilson's Dealer' date='Jun 2 2005, 08:49 AM']Someone mentioned that African's sold each other into slavery. That's not really accurate. If you look through history, you'll notice that the biggest slave traders were the Arabs. Basically the Al-Thani tribe (who now rule Qatar), the Hurriat were the biggest traders. They established trading links to the West and sold these guys on. To this day there's still a fair bit of racism between the "White Arabs" (Lebanon, Jordan, Syria, Iraq to a degree, to the "Brown Arabs" (United Arab Emirates, Kuwait, Saudi Arabia, Qatar, Bahrain, etc. - these guys have all the oil though) and the "Black Arabs" (e.g. Sudan, Somalia, Mali, Chad) BJ hit the points on all the head. I think the biggest thing though is the drawing of borders by colonial powers[b]. A prime example is Nigeria.[/b] The country was mishmashed together combining tribes like the Hausa, Fulani, Yoruba, Igbo, Ijaw, Kanuri etc. They didn't have much history together before colonial times. So already there you have the potential for fracturing. Throw religion into the mix and you have a southern Christian state and a Muslim North, and it gets more complicated. Add Africa's biggest oil reserves to the mix, shitloads of corruption, and you have the permanently volatile state that characterizes Nigeria. BJ, when were you in Tanzania? I was there two years ago. My cousin married a South African and they live in Jo'Burg, so I checked out S. Africa, Tanzania, Botswana and Kenya. Tanzania was dope. Cheap beer, I had some friends there, good beaches. We're trying to get a group together here to go climb Kilimanjaro next year. I had been to Egypt in the 90's with my parents, but I found that pretty much like the Middle East, e.g. Arabic country. The only Swahili I remembered was "Mokundu, mwanu haramu, mnene" I think it was something about doing a chick, but my Tanzanian buddy probably lied. Smoov...can you confirm please that Ghanian ladies are incredibly hot? There are these two sisters who live on my floor here. Both smoking. Anytime they have parties, the eye candy that comes out of the apartment is incredible. Maybe I can send the woman on a vacation and then swing an invite to the next jam [right][post="98580"][/post][/right][/quote] Have you ever read "Things Fall Apart" by Chinua Achebe, it tells the story of colonization from a Nigerian p.o.v., it's also the name of a classic album by the best hip-hop band ever, The Roots.. Ghanaian women are quite beautiful, Nigerian women are also beautiful as well...Imo, Ethopian women are the most beautiful women on the planet, slightly edging out Dominician women, it's a close race... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BengalsCat Posted June 2, 2005 Report Share Posted June 2, 2005 [quote name='BadassBengal' date='Jun 1 2005, 08:38 PM']Yea, so it was ok for the US to keep them and use them as slaves for YEARS because they were sold to em. Right. [right][post="98357"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote] Never said it wasnt america's fault for keeping them no. They should be held accountable. But africa sold it self in to slavery Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BengalsCat Posted June 2, 2005 Report Share Posted June 2, 2005 Bj i couldnt agree with you more that it doesnt excuse america from taking responsibilty for what they did slavery is very very wrong. But it doesnt stop the fact that there own people put them in a position to be slaves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BlackJesus Posted June 2, 2005 Report Share Posted June 2, 2005 Stanley Wilsons Dealer [b][quote]BJ, when were you in Tanzania? I was there two years ago. My cousin married a South African and they live in Jo'Burg, so I checked out S. Africa, Tanzania, Botswana and Kenya. Tanzania was dope. Cheap beer, I had some friends there, good beaches. We're trying to get a group together here to go climb Kilimanjaro next year. I had been to Egypt in the 90's with my parents, but I found that pretty much like the Middle East, e.g. Arabic country.[/quote] I was there about the same time..... I love Tanzanian Beer.... Tusker is the best followed by Safari. Also amazing beaches I agree. I also climbed Kilimanjaro, took 5 1/2 days and was pretty cold on the top, Make sure you have at least 20 pairs of socks,, if they get wet you are fucked. [img]http://img214.echo.cx/img214/8229/kids24ou.jpg[/img] Pic of me with some Vilage Kids that I lived with for a time.... I tried to teach them American football but they hated it so we went with soccer. [/b] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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